Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ

You think the integration of Xbox and Facebook, Twitter and LastFM was the biggest announcement? You mean rather than the revolution in gaming which Speilberg was referring too? Seriously?

Millions were already connected via Xbox and MSN. I was fully expecting Facebook and Twitter to be integrated in some form. It's nothing exciting or different really to what is already achievable.

Also you wouldn't call full motion capturing, facial recognition to login, voice identification, et al revolutionary to gaming? That is not a bigger announcement than Facebook and Twitter on Xbox? I fully expect Natal to be on everyone's lips over the next few days, rather than Facebook integration.

Even the Sky announcement is bigger (albeit already announced).

I think they were both pretty big news but I really don't think you can just throw away the natal (I think) as a gimmick.
If it works like it does in the video and in the demos then it will be revolutionary and not just another eye toy

I have to say whatever your feelings are about the new technology it's kind of surprising you don't think it was even worth mentioning. If Microsoft get it right they might just have something that can compete on the same level as the Wii, particularly given the current price point of both consoles.

Having said that, you are spot on with the social network stuff. Microsoft for a long time has tended to keep their closed console locked up, only providing support for their services, so providing access to 3rd party social media really is an important change for them.

Still no streaming iPlayer though! WHY!???!

Make millions of people's day Microsoft and Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ, announce it, go on, please...

The PS3 already connects to Facebook & Twiter (and millions of other websites with its built in web browser

Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ is picking up speed after a slow start there is more and more content coming online all the time, and the pace is only going to get quicker.

However kudos to Microsoft, I think some key 'apps' integrated into the PS3 the same way that Microsoft have announced would be good.

I have to agree. Facebook and Twitter integration are interesting... however it was Natal that was the bit story and actually got me excited. If it can do half the things they demonstrated I think it could be a game changer. We will have to wait and see what the "select few" say when they have tried it. I wonder if the Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ had been one of them would it have got a bit more coverage?

Yes have to agree the Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ's coverage of this has been poor! They say the highlight has been the PSP go, what a joke! We knew about this months ago, no matter how cool it is. The Natal thing is exactly what the video game industry needs, innovation that brings it to more people!

I can hardly contain my indifference.

In what way is this important?

You can hardly contain your indifference! LOL!

In what whay do you not see it as important?

As I prepare to go to bed on a busy day off work in which I have watched Casino Royale on Blu-ray, downloaded a CoD: Modern Warfare 2 teaser in full HD, listened to some music, uploaded some digital photos fom my camera, played "LittleBIGPlanet" and "Buzz! Quiz TV" online, checked the weather for my holiday which starts tomorrow, read the latest news, checked up on the latest F1 developments and closely followed today's events at E3 all by turning on only my PS3 (with my PC remaining switched off until right now - while I check my Hotmail and type this post), I ask myself this question:

How exactly does the integration of Twitter and Facebook in the 360 "...mark out Xbox Live as the social gaming platform"?

Sony mentioned an impending PS3 Facebook application (suggesting in-game funcionality) three months ago! Quoting John Koller (SCEA), when asked about Facebook/game integration: "That day is coming quicker than some may think."

And I seem to recall XBox executives regularly attacking Sony for including non-gaming functionalities in their console and Nintendo for the "gimmick" of motion control.

Where others lead, Microsoft follow.

Revolution, let me ask you this question then. Why did you bother buying a PS3 when it is basically a PC in George Foreman esque casing?

You see, you say you can do all this stuff on your PS3, but then you go on to say that you have a PC. I thought games consoles were for playing games, if they go beyond that then I have to ask the question, "is there any need for games consoles anymore?".

I want innovative games that bring me more into the world I'm playing in, nice graphics doesn't quite fit the bill. This 3-D motion sensor that microsoft have brought to us is something different, its certainly not a glorified 'Eye Toy' and is much more than the Wii's sensor. However I must point out that I have a PS3 and look forward to future innovation that will come along as a result of this, just as the 'Eye Toy' and 'Wii' before it.

@BaldyBlueBrosNoMore,

What an utterly ridiculous question. My initial thought was to ask why it wasn't more reasonable and pertinent for you to question why I owned a PC given all the things I said I do on my PS3 without needing my computer (and also given that I mentioned I played games not available on PC or any other platform, and could easily use Hotmail on my mobile or upgrade to one that can), but then I looked at your commenting history and it all made sense. You no more have a PS3 than I have a private jet.

"It's either a games console or not" is just a pathetic, backward-looking argument. This thing in my pocket: Puh! Is it a phone or not?! I can make calls, but I can also take pictures and play music and video! And a PC can run games but also spreadsheets! Ridiculous! In this remarkable age of technology, it is possible and often desirable and even beneficial for a device to do more than one thing. MS seem to agree with Sony on that point, but apparently it's only bad when Sony add non-gaming funcionality, only good when MS do. And here's the thing clever people recognised and foolish people didn't: those "non-gaming" functions are being integrated into new and different types of games. Sony tease coming social website integration; three months later, MS announce the same.

Now, as for Natal/Milo, if you truly believe that was a genuine demo then you are very, very credulous. Why was it pre-recorded and played back on the screen? Because it was pre-programmed and scripted all the way through. The motion-sensing gaming aspects of the hardware look cool, but in reality most of the functionality we saw requires no use of depth perception at all. Playstation Eye (the EyeToy is a different device, do catch up) was independently registering and tracking multiple hands and faces in a single session two years ago. It was also taking drawings into software which then allowed them to be manipulated and interacted with eighteen months ago. Watch the EyePet video - journalists have played the demo as it actually exists as shown in the teaser, unlike Milo.

And the motion-sensing shown today wasn't "brought" to us by MS, it was "bought". In February this year they bought the Israeli company - 3DV Systems - which had spent years developing the technology, then stuck their logo on it. You have to admire the efficiency.....

Why didn't you just say what an utterly, rediculous, question from a credulous person in California!!!! So you say I should have asked the more relevant question of why you own a PC, hmmmm, let me see, well maybe because it is the more relevant question to the subject in hand. Otherwise I apologize (sorry apologise) dear sir for the irrelevance of my questioning.

Please do some more research regarding 3DV, as firstly the deal has not been concluded quite yet, there are a few things to tie up. Secondly comparing it to the EyeToy, sorry Playstation Eye, is rather pathetic and shows you know nothing of the technology involved here. It makes reading replies far more enjoyable when one knows what one is writing about. Journalists also had a sampling today here in LA at the Expo of the 'Milo' demo, so your pre-recorded microsoft pulling the strings behind the scenes insinuation falls flat on its face.

Yes, it may have been created by another company, but efficiency is the name of the game when it comes to M$ because otherwise they wouldn't be where they are today.

Oh I own all 3 systems to be honest, but when it comes to media my PC kicks the PS3's ass. It's good but it will never replace a PC or Mac, when it does that it will no longer be a games console. Roll on Tuesday for Sony and Nintendo, today has been great!

The really tragic thing about this launch is the use of Mr. Molynuex. Gamers have a long history with him as a developer promising massive things from his games in terms of new technology and features only to be ultimately dissapointed by what is acheived.

If this new interface acheives what is shown on the video, it's sad but true, that most gamers wont beleive it with him as frontman.

At the risk of interupting an entertaining flame-war, I will maybe take this on a tangent and say that I think with social-networking hook-ups both Microsoft and Sony are missing the point. I believe Natal is far more important... here's why.

Why did the Wii sell so many units? Because it bucked an industry trend of assuming that gamers all sit alone in a darkened room with "friends" existing only in some virtual cloud. A slew of recent games, which did offer split-screen support in previous versions, have abandoned this once-loved feature. Resistance 2, Fallout 2, Battlefield Bad Company, Rainbow Six, and on and on. Even the CoD games offer massively reduced functionality via Split-Screen - and don't expect MW2 to be any different.

The Wii appealed to those who have "real" friends. It encouraged a physically social gaming experience, whether that be with family, at a party, or just with friends. Forget the fact you're all up dancing around, bowling, etc. Just the fact that you are doing it with real people is the key to the enjoyment. I, along with many others, turned my nose up at the cartoony, gimmicky, technically-inferior Wii... but you have to give them credit where it's due.

I still enjoy "games nights" with my friends, pizza, some beers, and some split-screen gaming. But the range of games available to us is rapidly dwindling. It's now contracted to a handfull of FPS, some driving sims, and football games. I don't see it improving any time soon. All the while, the Wii continues to release games that encourage physical social interaction.

I can only hope that Natal is the antidote, and that it drives the software houses, who are seemingly sniffy about the idea of people actually meeting in person, to alter their ethos and start building the games with this sort of thing in mind. If, however, they are just copying a motion-sensor without attempting to tackle the loner-in-a-room mentality, then this will be a exercise in futility.

Interestingly nobody mentions the fact that the PS3 and Wii can already do these things already.. I've being using twitter and facebook on my PS3 for several years, it also works just fine with Last.FM and spotify too.

It's interesting how Xbox owners used to scoff at the PS3's vastly superior media capabilities, mentioning things like "a gaming console should focus on gaming", however now they are playing catchup, it's fine all of a sudden...

"owners used to scoff at the PS3's vastly superior media capabilities,"

As I can do most of the things on the 360 I can do on my PS3, i'm not sure that it is vastly superior.

I stream movies, music, watch HD videos etc. It seems that some just ignore the fact that the 360 is also a media hub. It doesn't have Blu Ray, that's the only thing that it lacks really (but that just made it affordable).

I have some sympathy with Darren's view, but possibly not for the same reason. It is a big thing that MS are opening up their closed garden and linking into outside services using public API's. In the past they would have forced you into using only MS services unless they did an exclusive deal with an outside provider where money changed hands (although the whole Sky/iPlayer thing shows old habits do die hard). For MS, that is a big thing.

As for Natal, as with most MS 'innovation' I'll believe it when I see it in action in the real world...

@trebell. I also have both, and my old 360 simply does not cut it. It's not got HMDI, no Blu-Ray either, no web browser, No HDD to store your movies or music (it's available at extra cost of course) and i'm tied to Microsoft's proprietary MCE, which limits what I can do, compared to the PS3, which uses DLNA open standard, meaning I can use a media server that can serve up SkyPlayer (I think that's also coming to 360 at some point...). The PS3 allows me to use Facebook, Bebo, Spotify, Last.FM and whatever comes along too. The fact I can also use iPlayer and CatchupTV, plus PlayTV for a full digital freeview service, all that frankly puts Microsoft's media offering to shame.

Worst of all, my 360 is REALLY noisy, both fans and DVD drive, ruining any enjoyment from media playback and gaming.

Goodbye Nintendo. It was nice knowing you.

Natal looks awesome. I'd also point out that it was a recorded technical demo, not a staged video.

@Baldy,

I try to debunk the claim that the 360 is the better console for social networking because MS is adding a fraction of what the PS3 can already do (or has already announced), and mention how I can do virtually everything I need to do on a PS3 - including, shock horror, play PS3 games - and you question why I need to own one? Hilarious. You complain that a games console can do more than just play games, then ask why I don't just have a PC? Priceless. When have you complained the 360 can do more than just play games?

I suggest you watch some PS Eye demo videos. Again, most of what MS showed in motion sensing and importing images was all demonstrated on the PS Eye two years ago. Molyneaux spoke in awe about how you could dip your hands in Milo's pond - "There Claire Is! In Milo's World!". Wow. Did that on PS3 two years ago with Aquatopia: rubbish then, rubbish now. Your commenting history tells us all why you simply cannot accept Sony have ever done anything good or relevant before.

And yes, they've showed Milo behind closed doors. Still pep-programmed and pre-scripted. Did you know, for instance, that you can only "talk" to Milo when the game shows an icon saying you can? You have to wait for an icon to appear at the right time in the script......

Oh my. The wars begin.

Anyway. Back on topic. I think the social thing and the features around seem great. Not just the fact that we'll be able to access Facebook/Twitter etc via the dash, but more so the intregal features of it. I'm really looking forward to it myself!

Thought it was a pretty cracking conf. overall to be honest. Slow start, but it certainly picked up! Expensive winter ahead me thinks!

People who are saying the PS3/Wii can already do these things are completely missing the point.

The whole idea of this 360 social network integration is exactly that - integration. Yes you can access the twitter website using the PS3 browser but it's a complete disconnect between what you are doing on the console and what you are doing online. The browser is just an accessory, an extra inclusion to allow you to access the internet from the comfort of your sofa - but it's a separate entity to the machine itself.

Microsoft's idea is to tie twitter et al. into the gaming experience by allowing games and services to interface with the API's offered by the social networks and further integrate the web into the world of gaming.

Look before you leap etc

Interesting that Microsoft are getting "blogged for this, yet Sony have been working on these things for several years already..



The only difference here, is there is no smoke and mirrors like Microsofts heavily scripted vapourware presentation.

I think those of you who are referring to the demonstration as 'heavily scripted vapourware' should probably look at yesterday's actual demonstration at E3. The video is available on Engadget and Gizmodo amongst others.

As for who does what; who cares? Competition is good for everyone. I don't understand people who have a particualr adherence to one system over another.

I agree with Mark_MWFC. its pointless argueing like five year olds which is better (revolutionblues). if the companies are desparate to outdo each other its always gonna be good for us. i have an xbox and a wii and my housemate has a ps3. they are all good. if any one of them wants to try and innovate or evolve the way we use their machines then bring it on.

@Mark_MWFC,

I have seen the video. And it screams scripted, pre-programmed tech demo. Why do you think it was pre-recorded and played back on screen rather than demo'd on stage?

Kotaku took a peek 'behind the curtain' when they were allowed to see the demo behind securely closed doors last night, and have revealed that "The Milo demo was partially being manipulated by a developer who was sitting nearby.....". Elsewhere, someone has revealed you can only talk to Milo when prompted by the software via an on-screen icon. So, when the script allows it?

@djhworld,

Yes. But Sony revealed three months ago that Facebook/game integration is on its way for PS3 and I believe that in-game Twitter is already possible on the console! Darren has suggested that if MS can persuade developers to integrate them, it will be great, when Sony have already said they are working on that exact thing. Again, John Kioller (SCEA) said of Facebook/game integration: "That day is coming quicker than some may think." So how does announcing something in June which Sony announced in April make this "Microsoft's idea"?

I don't want this social network nonsense! The avatars were bad enough!!! It was just a copy paste of Nintendo Miis but with bodies! nothing revolutionary at all.

I bet it's going to be a forced update like the Miis so I'll be swithcing it off right away. Does anyone actually use MSN on their Xbox? One of my house mates used to until whenever we played online his misses would pester him every 5mins, it crashed the Xbox and lagged the game!!!!

I can just see it now, your online halfway through a game and all of a sudden the hosts gets a tweet from some numpty the hosts Xbox crashes and the game ends. HOW IS THAT FUN FOR ANYONE??? Isn't that what gamings about FUN, you've got a headset to speak with people you're playing with, a controller taking up both hands HOW DO YOU HAVE THE TIME TO BE UPDATING YOUR MY FACE PAGE AND TWITTERING?

Please give us a choice Microsoft, not everyone wants to tell there friends they just 'no-scoped' some 10 year old kid on halo or whatever the minute it's done. If people really are that desperate to stay in constant communication with people they can pick up the phone AFTER THE GAME HAS FINISHED.

GAMING FOR GAMERS, CONSOLES TO PLAY GAMES, A PC/MAC DOES EVERYTHING ELSE

Very annoyed Xbox owner

@Revo

You were the one that mentioned you did all this on your PS3, without turning on your PC. I asked you a perfectly legitimate question and you just referred to previous posts I had made as an excuse for not answering. Very clever of you, good job we dont do this in everyday life, nobody would get anything done!

The way I see it is that a games console is a games console, for playing games. I Use neither of my consoles for anything else except playing games, yes I tried a few things out but eventually all media stuff went back to the PC/Mac. I am all up for something that get us more involved in games, a situation similar to us almost being in a movie certainly appeals. I want a games console to give me good games and I want the manufacturers to focus on exactly that, other stuff while it may be nice detracts from the fact that the PS3, Wii and 360 are primarily games consoles. I dont want any of them doing anything else except giving me a good bunch of games to play.

The 'Milo' demo was partially manipulated, what do you expect? They had only had it for a couples of months. 'Partially manipulated' does not mean that it was fake and nowhere have any reporters stated such. While hardware may have its limitations, the main limitation here is in fact the software. We can all manipulate what we read and try to make something sound different.

I want Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo trying to out-do one another, why, well, because then it will bring us all more exciting ways to get involved in the games we all love to play.

Sony had a huge day at E3 yesterday, releasing details of it's own motion controller which whilst not completely hands free like Microsoft motion cam was arguably far more useful, as the level of accuracy and manipulation was far better.

There are now updated details for the Sony EyePet, which works purely from motion detection with Sony's EyeToy camera technology, offering amazing fun for al the family, and aligns itself very favourably against the 360s Milo.

I'm not sure whether Sony will get the wall to wall Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ coverage that Microsoft managed to yesterday, but anyone who sees the new 'Sony Wand', EyePet a raft of new exclsives games like Uncharted 2, Gran Turismo 5, Final Fantasy XIV, God Of War III and finally The Last Guardian will see that Sony is really pushing the envelope of what is possible on hoe consoles, and whilst they didn't have the extremely awkward stage presence of Ringo & Paul and the stuttering shyness of Speilberg they have arguably had a far more successful E3, with far more to look forward to for the rest of the year and beyond.

The favoritsm on here infuriates me sometimes. Why is it so difficult to give ALL of them SOME credit? They all had high and low points.

Sony spent FAR too much time on the PSP. Why do they insist on pouring so much money into something that doesn't do particulary great anyway? For crying out loud, put the money and time into some games. Then they metion that the PS2 is getting 100 TITLES this year and then they show us but a handfull of ps3 stuff? It was pretty poor. More PS3 stuff would have been nice. As for the wand, I honestly don't know what to think about that just yet. Some parts of the demo seemed impressive, others not so much. The Last Guardian looks SUPERB though.
I found it a better presentation that Nintendo though, that was horrendously dissapointing. What with the making out all these games were BRAND NEW when they were just more old characters revived once more? Mario Galaxy 2 and M&L looked decent, but I was little gutted that Zelda got no more than a passing mention.
Microsofts Natal was more than impressive - more so for the recognition/control factors more so than the games side of it (imo anyway) Some good announcements like Crackdown 2, L4D2 and Halo Reach - which if done right could hold a great story, for a change.. The Milo thing though? Meh is all I can really say.

They all had highs and lows. I wonder sometimes how far out of thier own favorable box people look.

@ButterflyEdge

Perhaps you missed the bits of the Sony conference that:

Revealed 35 PS3 exclusives this year, and a total of 320 PS3 games.
Revealed the PSP versions of Gran Turismo, Metal Gear Solid, and Resident Evil.

It was good to see Sony's camera demonstration, and unlike Microsofts faked for the gulable press demo, their was live and real.

I'm sorry... What did I miss? The only demo that WASN'T live was Milo. Which like I said - Meh. Natal was trailered, and then live demo'd on stage. How was that faked?

I'm fully aware of the few titles PS3 titles gave attention to on stage. There is no need to patronise. I was simply saying that overall the time they gave the PS3 games on stage, I found dissapointing.

It's ridiculous how your not allowed to speak your opinion on here. I don't critise yours - regardless of what I think of them.

@ButterflyEdge

There was a guy round the back controlling the onscreen interactions.



Seems with the smoke and mirrors removed, and behind closed doors industry insiders were "A much-hyped software package that uses the Project Natal hardware, Milo was presented as a virtual on-screen boy who could recognize you and carry on an intelligent conversation. The demo video was impressive, but obviously shot in a tightly controlled environment with clearly scripted responses. Talking to several people who got a chance to try out talking to Milo in person behind closed doors, the responses were uniformly disappointed"

@mgillespie

Except there's a big article on Engadget about Natal. You see they've actually used the prototype and it does work. They describe it as awesome.

Of course you can carry on believing it's a conspiracy if you want. Whatever.

Mark_MWFC,

mgillespie has been going round the interweb for a long, long time now shilling for Sony, so I'm not sure if he actually believes what he writes, or that he just feels the need to adhere to the stereotype that is his online persona.

@Mark_MWFC Engadget have always been in Microsoft's pocket. They are top of Microsoft's advertising budget.

@VaporWear I'm not "shilling" for anyone. I'm saying how I see it. Is personal opinion no longer allowed if it does not fit with what YOU think. Looking at your posting history, you registered yesterday and made 3 posts. That's a shill poster if ever I saw one. What name were you posting as last week?

Thomas,

If, from my 3 posts here you have come to the conclusion that I am a shill, then you may not actually be one yourself as you clearly have no understanding of the word.

As for my previous posting history, there has been none. I have been visiting this particular blog on and off for some time (pretty much since the "secret game" comment from Darren) and was compelled to register due to your idiotic fanboy (or are you really a shill?) comments.

A prime example is this:

"Perhaps you missed the bits of the Sony conference that:

Revealed 35 PS3 exclusives this year, and a total of 320 PS3 games."

Firstly, you are incorrect. Sony didn't announce a total of 320 PS3 games this year. And even if they had, would you believe it? Don't you recall in July 07 Kaz "announcing" a total of 380 PS3 games by March 08? It's now June 09 and we are still not at that level.

Overall, there's nothing wrong with having a preference for a particular platfrom, but your kind do a disservice to the medium as a whole.

"@Mark_MWFC Engadget have always been in Microsoft's pocket. They are top of Microsoft's advertising budget."

And with that comment we can see how ridiculous your posts actually are.

Thank you for letting us know we can simply skip over your posts in future. It's quite obvious you're merely out to troll.

mgillespie, I find it hilarious that you cry about not being allowed your personal opinion, when you've done nothing but slap down everyone else's.

I love my ZX spectrum and still believe manic miner is ahead of its time

OMFG L33T FL4M3W4RZZZ!!!11!!!1111

Please do grow up. Natal is probably incomplete at the moment- hence no release date, but I doubt if they would resort to such levels of PT Barnum theatricallity as some people are suggesting! Does it matter? Both Sony and MS are trying to capture some of the success of Ninty right now.

And before any of you start on me being a Shigeruphile, I currently own a 360 and a DS, and last gen was on PS2, so I have love for all the big 3 BUT;

Ninty- Too many kids games, they've forgotten who kept them afloat in the tough times, as last years awful E3 showing proved. Victims of their own success.

Microsoft- Red ring, HDDVD, paid for online play, overreliance of muscular space marine shooter 23. Victims of misguided ambition.

Sony- Too late, too expensive, too easy to mistake for a George Foreman (the new slim one looks nice if it's not fake!). Victims of their complacency after a decade of being top dog.

Nobody's perfect.

Over 300 titles for PS3 this year, 35 exclusive titles.



Clearly many of those commenting, didn't acually listen (or watch), and just reporting what they read on Xbox forums...

Thomas,

"Clearly many of those commenting, didn't acually listen (or watch), and just reporting what they read on Xbox forums..."

It seems, actually, that it is you who are just reporting what you have read on forums. Either that, or rumours your paymasters have ordered you to spread. Either way, if you'd actually watched the conference you'd have heard Jack Tretton saying:

"The biggest sense of pressure I feel is trying to do justice to the 364 games we have coming out on PlayStation platforms this year."

That's 364 over PS2, PSP and PS3 and also includes re-releases of PS1 titles over PSN. Oh, and if past experience with Sony is anything to go by, that means if the same title is released in SCEA, SCEE and SCEJ that counts as 3 separate titles for them.

But even if not, I repeat, it's 364 over ALL PlayStation platforms. In the same conference they said over 100 new PS2 titles would be released, it is looks as though they have a truly stunning lineup of PSP games to come, so it's nowhere near the 320 you earlier spoke of, or even your revised target of 300+

I hope this helps.

The xbox360 is trying to do too many things at once..it is in my opinion the best console available at the moment, this is mainly due to the excellent live service which Sony has failed to provide.

The only major advantage the ps3 has over the is that it has blue ray, and the piracy levels will be non existent due to the console being un-hackable at this present time.