Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ

Just to reiterate in 1968 Czechoslovakia there was not a bombardment of Russian civilians causing a couple of thousand deaths.

So when President Saakashvili of Georgia says "We were screaming to the world that Russia was going to do this.." it does not ring quite true does it. Is he not a war criminal? He is our ally of the future?

In fact the Russians say, and the US has not denied it, that they contacted the US BEFORE the problems escalated to military conflict saying the Georgians were going to cause problems.

The bullying is by the US with blatant attempts to intimidate Russia, partially via the currently ineffective Star Wars II programme.

I am no Russian lackey and I think the contrast with the breakdown in the former Yugoslavia is ironic. Now its them after Saakashvili when we wanted Mladic and co.

But this was a totally avoidable situation and I hope there is, behind the scenes, a sober reassessment by the US and UK, but probably not.

evil?

not that word again.

the use of the word evil flags up a theological mindset. as in 'axis of evil', 'the evil doers' and other phrases straussians might use.

screaming is the right word.

My problem is that I believe that the West has lost moral credibility after Iraq, Afghanistan, Kosovo etc and so when the US acts tough, it is not effective - and liberated communications (through the web etc, bypassing a biased media) means it is far easier to get a balanced view. And that exposes the US strategic agenda for what it is - economic/energy control. I personally do not think that the US have the right to interfere in Europe in the way that they do, but that is not my point. My point is that PR and media management by the US are not as effective as they were - and we see through it.

It's time for China to show its support to Russia. South Ossetia belongs in Russia just like Tibet in China.

If the US led west wants a WWIII by doing all they can to damage us, let them have it.

I'm surprised of the choice of Russian commentator on the panel which discussed the Russia/Georgia conflict.

If I heard him correctly he threatened Europe and the West with world war three. Did i just imagine that?

Would it not be more sensible for the Newsnight team to invite more pragmatic Russian voices, instead of nationalistic Russians imitating Kruschev banging their shoes on tables etc...

Why not invite some American nutter on while you are at it and they can shout at eachother across a table or even mud wrestle. Just no nukes.

The game has changed.
We changed it when we said that the people of Kosovo could separate themselves from Serbia.
Now Ossetians want their freedom, and it's easy to see why. So too do the Abkhazians.
Saakashvili with his American education wants to join NATO but needs to sort out his two separatist states. His army is better equipped than the Russians and his air force too, he can shoot down the Russian planes and in 24 hours has taken the South Ossetian Capital. But he is a political maverick and gets carried away. The Russians saw through his game and did as we did for the Kosovans, they prepared their forces against an invasion and even told the US to hold him back. But no, he goes for the genocidal slaughter and is surprised when he is knocked back.
There is now only one result: South Ossetia and Abkhazia will have to be set free, while the Ukraine, a far more dangerous arena, will have to be divided.
Meanwhile Russia knows that within just three years a small state like Georgia can upgrade its conventional weapons. Russia now has to ensure her tanks and planes, and the training of her forces, are able to meet any threat posed by American trained and supported neighbours.
The game has changed.
America is annoyed because the American plan failed. Now Georgia will never be admitted to NATO, and it’s unlikely the oil and gas pipelines will be reliable either. But it was America who changed the rules in Kosovo. Russia is learning fast. She also knows that money rules, and when the money is backed by Oil, Gas and other mineral resources she knows that..
The game has changed.

While in light of history it is understandable Russia wants to appear powerful, but there is an asymmetry in the interests of 'Russia' and 'The West'. In the West, the EU is a catalyst for economic and democratic development in Europe and was at least a factor in Northern Ireland peace. Russia, it seems, is defending the interests of 'Russian Speakers'. The internationalism of Soviet influence has been replaced with a narrow ethnic/linguistic interest. The irony is, that the inheritors of this internationalism is the EU, which is acting as a beacon across nations and is obviously draining the old Soviet influence of Russia in the East.

What alternative do they have to offer though? Russia has a history of anarchy from the bottom up combined with top down totalitarianism. It's hardly a rallying cry - the only one they have left is nationalism, suspicion of the West and the old hatred of Nato. In that scenario, to keep this model going, you always need an enemy to sustain executive power.

It would be a pity if the US and Russia waste the world's time with another round arm wrestling.

Regarding Poland, perhaps the US should make it clear if its weapon system constitutes a first strike capability (peace being predicated on MAD - first strike would give the US a tactical advantage). However, even Gorbachev didn't let missile defence stand in the way of disarmament because for such a system to work, it would require at least as many missiles to counter the other side's warheads. A logic which would lead to ever greater and more expensive schemes that would probably be ineffective anyway.

If someone complained that they couldn't shoot a policeman because he's was wearing a bullet proof jacket would generally think they were off their rocker. Doesn't Russia want to be a trading partner? Where does it want to go and take it's people in future? These really are the bigger questions. This sort of posturing shouldn't be allowed to hide it's lack of political development - indeed a regression, in the last few years.

Hello

Please clarify the situation about the pipeline or pipelines through Georgia. Your report tonight seemed to contradict the information on the Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ web site: for example "A cluster of major pipelines pass through Georgia, some of them within a few kilometres of positions occupied by Russian forces (Analysis
John Roberts
Energy security specialist, Platts) you will find it on the Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ web site.

THE CIVILISING OF 6 BILLION, BEGINS WITH A SINGLE INDIVIDUAL.

Bogusphotographer (no film eh?) you comment at #7 as if rationality and logic are currency in a world populated by the immature and run by the most desperate. As I have said before: the world can only be 'fixed' when a critical mass of its 6+ billion human ants have a strong 'Adult' (Berne) function. Posturing stand-offs and hot-headed retaliations are far removed from the high-mindedness required for this mixed bunch of humanity (foolishly stirred in recent times) to rub along. Even then, it would be difficult to keep male animals from behaving badly, at the slightest provocation.

The answer, it seems, if you read the blogs, is simple. The solution to this crisis rests with .

I wasn't convinced by this argument at first, but the more I thought about it the more rational it became.

Speculation
--------------

Any takers that Russia has used its energy to buy part of Europe ?

Was it not long ago that allegations of a senior EU leader was a Russia agent (for clarity Not German or French or British) ?


German/Russian meeting Friday.
-----------------------------------

German Chancellor Angela Merkel is being told firmly by Russian President that Abkhazia and South Ossetia don't belong to Georgia now.

Quotes -

"Medvedev argued that people in Abkhazia and South Ossetia were unlikely to accept life under Georgian rule after the recent hostilities."

"Merkel argued for an international peacekeeping presence in Georgia, and Medvedev reportedly said, "We are not against international peacekeepers." But Abkhazia and South Ossetia, he argued, would only accept Russian troops."


The West's Deaf Ears
--------------------------

No one wanted to know when people were saying Russia was slipping back to it's old ways , one party state , non free press\TV , political assignations at home or abroad and a massive increase in military expenditure.

Whats Next Georgia
----------------------

Georgia's borders are going to be redrawn , the EU will sign off on this , just like Chamberlain did in the 1930's.


Crunch Point Ukraine
-----------------------

EU countries that have the most of lose with falling out with their Energy supplier will veto Ukraine's membership of the EU and NATO. This will signal to Ukraine that it's stuck with Russia , their political land scape will change to mirror this.

EU USA Relations
--------------------

Not great , the EU's actions will be seen for what is it, appeasement. Even the Democrats will see it as such.

Britain's Position
------------------

Vocally against it , but powerless and out voted in the EU to stop it.

It will be embarrassing to watch !

#11

Continued

Stop Press !

"Cameron set for talks in Georgia"

Do we have a politician with the kahunas enough to express a independent foreign policy stance ?

This could change my prediction above , I do hope so !

Saakashvili: a nice chap but let loose as a president and he is a dangerous idiot who needs reigning in and given a script. Georgia started this dangerous game, though listening to the past weeks reports you would think the Reds were the only aggressors.
The Russians only did what any country does when its peoples are attacked; counter attack, invade (if possible)and then disable its enemies military hardware, its the ABC of military strategy.
Admittedly Russians are not known for the chivalric code of conduct when engaged in conflict but then at times nor have we or any other country when you take a glance at histories skirmishes and wars. Young men with guns and a dash of patriotism is all thats needed and we all get to watch this in full colour glory with the blood splatter of the innocents on our TV screens. Maybe i have read one too many Chomsky books that has left me cynical whenever the US administration is involved. And when the established media gives only a one sided account then i am convinced all is not what it seems. Never a cheerleader for the Russians, i find myself for the first time supporting there actions.... and i am not alone in that support.

'Would it not be more sensible for the Newsnight team to invite more pragmatic ...'

Surely, you jest? This is not about a sensible debate with intelligent opinion and well-balanced, if often subjective analysis... this is a Newsnight debate... about Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ ratings.

Please don't go putting ideas in their heads:

'Why not invite some [choice of vocal extreme on any topic on booker's speed dial] nutter on while you are at it and they can shout at each other across a table ..'

It's called the 'Newsnight twofer'. Best conducted with a 'moderator' who supplies feeds and either doesn't know enough or care to slap down gross inaccuracies.

Though, to be fair, all the rest of our 'fine media estate' do the same thing too.

'Would it not be more sensible for the Newsnight team to invite more pragmatic ...'

God, that American woman was tiresome! She obviously thought she was lecturing an audience of morons. On and on about 'American diplomacy in Europe'. Was this really the best that America could offer to convince the rest of us that it was all very clear-cut - America Good, Russia BAD.

American diplomacy has consisted of causing trouble, aggravating delicate situations, and general pot-stirring. And now the Ukraine is in their sights. You'da thought they had enough on their plates with Iraq, that they might have realised they're not the brilliant strategists they thought they were.

CHILDREN AT PLAY

Cookieducker #13: "Saakashvili let loose as president"

Junkkmale #14: "Newsnight Twofer"

Here4awhile #15: "You'da thought they (USA) had enough on their plates."

The common factor is lack of maturity/gravitas.

Me #9: Unless we address the conversion of every new birth into content, competent adults, AS PRIMARY IMPERATIVE, nothing fundamental will change. Units of production/consumption make poor humans.

More doggerel.

Aye ma Auntie.

What are yooz looking at?
A'm sairy , Can ye spaek slowly?
or Screive it doun please!
ah'mno a daftie.

A dinnieken what the mon was sayin.
Whit's yer name rupert?
Dry yer eyes i can't be ersed to Glesca Kiss.
Dinna fash yerself.

Hou auld ar ye?
A'd like yuz tae veesit Alba ae day,
Youre welcome to come an say Awrite!
Nae problem!

I am seriously concerned about the editorial policy at Newsnight, not for just Emily's rant earlier in the week but the whole editorial tone being so biased against Russia. Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ policy was always fairly even handed although we on the left always thought the beeb closer to Washington than the Kremilin but this latest tirade is over the top. Who started this? American foreign policy over the last fifteen years has been one of encircling both militarily and economically Russia. The mad dogs in the White House after the illegal war in Iraq now want former sattelite states of the Soviet Union to do their dirty work for them and have an aggressive posture against Russia....and the Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ's flagship news programme Newsnight is helping them out. Tragic.

TRAGEDY - YES. BUT IN WRAP ROUND HD!

Never mind the quality of Newsnight, leftieoddbod, FEEL THE WIDTH. If the Beeb sack enough people, they can afford to rip out all that video-wall and install holographic presentation of the same old same old. It is all a game and/or lie, with no more substance than that magic-money that just disappeared. We play out lives of illusion, inside a lie, educated to pursue ever more imaginary money with which to by wider, smarter TV technology, through which we imbibe world madness, madly portrayed by the ever-more-maddening Newsnight. But look! We can impotently complain on the blog! No chimp has a better tyre-on-a-rope whereon to vent his exasperation. Life is good.

leftieoddbod, The war in Iraq was caused by the ineffective UN which refused to sufficiently punish Saddam Hussein for playing games with weapons inspectors. Afghanistan was a case of a state harbouring a terrorist who was responsible for multiple murder in states accross the world.
Georgia, is supposed to be a free state, I can understand Russia's dissatisfaction with inactivity to resolve the problem there, but they overstepped the mark. If anyone believes that this step by russia is not a calculated step to intimidate i'ts former states, i believe they are mistaken.
Russia has proved before now their willingness to intimidate and Bully their former states into following their lead. If Georgia should be threatened by it's neighbour in such a way, how can it ever be truly a free and soveriegn state. And how can any of the other new republics be.
I understand the remark from the russian general about poland building missile bases there, to be one of warning if not, tactfully put, it is clearly a statement that russia strongly dissagrees with Poland on this issue and takes the belief that it is an aggresive act. which i am inclined to agree with. But as russia itsef has now invaded far beyond the original site of conflict into Georgia, and almost to the capital! the russians themselves could be found to justify Polands wish to employ such devices within it's territory.

""We were screaming to the world that Russia was going to do this... We are looking evil directly in the eye - this evil is very dangerous not only for us but for everybody."

With dialogue like that their PM should apply for a job as a screenwriter in Hollywood.
__________

Putin was right and they did the right thing in getting him in.

It is all very well for Bush to posture. This is the big bull staggering around the arena before he is finally taken down and dragged out. That is only for the USA media. No one in Europe takes him seriously.

If you want to know what is at the heart and soul of the Russians read Anthony Beevor’s book, STALINGRAD.

No one in the west has ever had to suffer what that city went through in WW2.

I trust Putin before Bush.

Bush has never seen his own people eating soap and coal to survive.

I would think a majority of USA people would like to see some action to rebuild New orleans before any European excursion for Condi and her mates.

# 12

Continued

My word , it is so refreshing to see a snr politician to go and do whats right !



I also sow G.Brown had to rush out a public condemnation of Russia's actions this morning , not to be out done by Cameron visit to Georgia today.

This just shows how childish Gordon's attitude to politics are , he has to go !

Good on Cameron for going to Tblisi and also for standing up to that hectoring woman on the PM program tonight.

Abkhazia and Ossetia are part of Georgia, within its international boundaries. Simple fact. Where is the UN Resolution or the like authorising actions by a third party in those areas ?

So WTF is "Upper Volta with rockets" doing stomping around there trying to impose the sort of existence that rural Russians suffer - ie living standards from the 1950s.

As for the "Russian citizens" no doubt some part of the Ossetian population was given a Russian passport and thought it might be useful (or looked down the barrel of the gun and decided it would be wise to accept the "gift" of the passport) but what does this count for ?

We've seen what happened to the Turkish press guys who tried to find out the reality in Ossetia. We cannot rely on the state controlled propaganda machine of KGB operative Putin and puppet President Medvedev who categorically stated they were not on Georgian territory while we sat and watched their tanks in Gori on Sky TV.

Let's scrap the G8 - which is the Group of 7 leading industrialised nations, plus Russia - and revert to the G7 group of industrialised and progressive nations without the "we are not in Gori" deceit and lies of Moscow.

cynicaleng (#23) The question which many people should still be asking is whether Georgian forces did shell South Osettia last Thursday, and if they did, why? If they did (as it seems they did), why were they shelling part of their own territory, and did they not expect Russia to go into South Osettia in order to stop it? What was Georgia trying to provoke, or justify? Was it a pretext to get US troops into the area given what's going on further South in the Gulf?

The USA can huff and puff about G8 but what if the Russians decide to retaliate and stop cooperation on the Space Station, the US has no reliable means of regularly getting there ?

If Georgia has to take military action against Russian backed insurgents within Georgian territory is that not their own concern ?

Were the Russians already there under some pretence of peace keeping, hardly a discipline they are familiar with ? How were they able to deploy such a large force at zero notice ?

We've seen the Russian soldier on TV wiping his feet on the Georgian flag. We've seen the Turkish TV crew shot at before being forcibly deported to Russia then repatriated to Turkey. Those of us with Russian contacts know their racist contempt for the Georgian people, the "Black asses". We've seen the ships blown up, the air strikes on blocks of flats, the flattened railway bridge, the tanks in Gori etc etc.

Whether or not the Georgians took action against internal dissenters is largely an irrelevance compared to the invasion of a sovereign state by a bullying neighbour. There are internationally agreed conventions for handling such situations via the UN which in general don't involve invasion as a first step.

Sudetenland in the 1930s, Ossetia and Azhkabia today. The parallels are alarming.

cynicaleng (#26) "Sudetenland in the 1930s, Ossetia and Azhkabia today." Yes, that was the comparison which I was going to draw too. However, in the late 1930s, the Axis Powers were fighting International (Jewish) Bolshevism/Anarcho-Capitalism not Stalinist 'socialism in one country'. Too few today (as in the 1930s) fully appreciate the significance of this.

The Socialist International today is up to its old tricks again, just as it was in another guise back in the 1930s. Today, we have a new 'Axis of Evil' resisting them. But the SI now dominates the EU and in all but name, the USA (the neocon PNAC).

The real question today surely is 'who are the evildoers???'. Who were they back in the 1930s?

The evildoers in the 1930s were the Nazi's. I suppose you have their posters on your walls. Did you know that anecdotal evidence suggest that Himmler himself "qualified" as a death camp resident. Isn't that ironic?

And Sudetenland did not start with civilians being killed in their thousands by an artillery bombardment. Its curious how people miss that.

thegangofone (#28) I think we can take it as read that you don't much like Hitler or nationalism. You're mistaken if you think this makes you one of life's 'good-guys'. He was very popular in the 1930s.

In the 1930s, both Stalin and Hitler had International Communists/Capitalists/Anarchists ('de-regulators') down as the world's evil-dooers. The fact that by 1941 it all became far more complicated shouln't blind us to the fact that many in the 1930s thought that Hitler might be good for Europe. Remember, after June 1941, a National Socialist country (the USSR) was a major allie o teh UK, USA, France etc, and that Stalin was someone that the FDR felt he could work with. As with WWI, a major contributor to WWII was not ideology, but treaties obligating nations to help one another if attacked (note that the British didn't go to war with the USSR in 1939, even though the USSR 'goose-stepped' into Poland from the East at the same time that the Germans did from the West).

The paraellel is that today, we come close to all that again with NATO, the EU, the CIS and SCO obligating thise which become allies to come to bthe defence of an member. South Ossetia and Abkhasia are like the the Sudetenland in that Germany asserted that it went into the Sudetenland to protect its people, just as they did those in the Polish corridor. Look at what is building up in the Persian Gulf.

Incidentally, when thinking about Displaced Persons after WWII (i.e. those that were dipossessed and went missing) just remember that Poland's borders changed dramatically, and that within a few years, most of the controversial camp territory (and presumably the liberated and to-be-repatriated liberated people) were behind the Iron Curtain. East and West communication was hardly free-flowing, so just how reliable is the evidence that you based your strong views upon?

THOSE WHO DON'T LEARN FROM HISTORY

thegangofone (#28) I think we can take it as read that you don't much like Hitler or nationalism. You're mistaken if you think this makes you one of life's 'good-guys'. He was very popular in the 1930s.

In the 1930s, both Stalin and Hitler had International Communists/Capitalists/Anarchists ('de-regulators') down as the world's evil-dooers. The fact that by 1941 it all became far more complicated shouldn't blind us to the fact that many in the 1930s thought that Hitler might be good for Europe. Remember, after June 1941, a National Socialist country (the USSR) was a major allie of the UK, USA, France etc, and that Stalin was someone that the FDR felt he could work with. As with WWI, a major contributor to WWII was not ideology, but treaties obligating nations to help one another if attacked (note that the British didn't go to war with the USSR in 1939, even though the USSR 'goose-stepped' into Poland from the East at the same time that the Germans did from the West).

The paraellel is that today, we come close to all that again with NATO, the EU, the CIS and SCO obligating thise which become allies to come to bthe defence of an member. South Ossetia and Abkhasia are like the the Sudetenland in that Germany asserted that it went into the Sudetenland to protect its people, just as they did those in the Polish corridor. Look at what is building up in the Persian Gulf.

Incidentally, when thinking about Displaced Persons after WWII (i.e. those that were dipossessed and went missing, see some of the US generals on this) just remember that Poland's borders changed dramatically, and that within a few years, most of the controversial camp territory (and presumably the liberated and to-be-repatriated DPs) were behind the Iron Curtain.... East and West communication was hardly free-flowing, so just how reliable is any of the 'evidence' which you base your strong views upon?

TOO MUCH INFORMATION/SPIN?

Apologies for typos and the double post. . In fact, even today, not all historians understand why two national Socialist allies (Germany and the USSR) ever went to war against each other in the summer of 1941.

Today, and her obligations to her Middle-East allies and especially Iran (although Iran's not in the SCO yet, Armenia is still in the CSTO and if one looks at the map and thinks about Russian ground troops/tanks and Iran, the recent Georgian events make strategic sense I suggest if one thinks about events in the Russia needs a corridor and the most obvious route via Azerbaijan, is out given their withdrawal from the CSTO.

one should bear in mind that China's forces are 'goose-stepping 'Democratic-Centralists' (National Socialists) too, and that there are an awful lot of them.

?

The Shanghai Cooperation Organisation and CSTO are linked, and no doubt cotinuing efforts at in favour of the SI's PPP in Pakistan are related to Pakistan's strategic position (see strategic CSTO map in earlier post above) and it being along with Iran, India and Mongolia.

The United States applied for observer status in the SCO, but was predictably, rejected in 2005.

PIMPLE SCRATCHING

Is it not apparent from the blogging on this site (where inter-blogger strife mirrors international confrontations) that the fault lies in ourselves?

I read (and follow links) with much interest and respect for scholarship and knowledge evident, but isn't history full of shifting alliances and Jenkins' ear mentality? Psychologically, we do not advance.

Under the belief that we humans will, one day, find the right 'formula for living', we perpetuate mayhem and misery as, one after another, deranged leaders emerge to apply the baser aspects of man, to salving their unsalvable, personal, hurts.

We who are born as a human-shaped container-animal, in a world exponentially increasing in complexity; far from being nurtured to optimum viability in such a world, are being bashed into crude units of production and consumption. Neither wise leaders nor compassionate followers will emerge from this murky pool. Georgia - its causes and effects - are just symptomatic of a human disease that is not being addressed, and may well be incurable.

HORSES FOR COURSES

Barrie (#33) All sadly currently true, but one possibility which may have some mileage is to look at nations comparatively. Is there a case to be made for different systems of government for different distributions of cognitive ability, with positive eugenic social engineering (as we now see in China) shaping populations towards more liberal systems, rather than insisting, regardless of the evidence, that one political system is suitable for all?

I don't find at all encouraging. On the contrary, I just see it likely , the CSTO and SCO.

Pat Buchanan on the other-hand *is* worth reading on this, muti-threaded, highly provocative in my view.

OPTIMUM PERFORMANCE (Hi JJ)

Oh dear - I am going to use a sport analogy.
Until we all started importing athletes - either incidentally of deliberately - there were obvious advantages of speed, endurance, brute strength etc inherent in certain global locations. (Note my tip-toe.)
Even so, athletes in also-ran countries still train to do their (inexorably limited) best in a wide range of events. What with diet to be 'In the Zone' - bursting with good eicosanoids - or psychologising to supposed invincibility, it is clear that when a goal is DEFINABLE and 'WORTH IT' we humans stop at nothing - across a range of cultures. (War being a good example, sadly.) My assertion is that we have failed to define our endemic (and growing)immaturity, hence do not see a major effort to improve human psychology to immeasurable advantage in wellbeing and pragmatic living, as worth the effort. It stands to reason that Mammon, particularly the 'defence industry', would hate us all to be sane and quiescent, and they are usually ahead of the mass-game, so I guess I am backing a loser. However, as I sink without trace: I DECLARE THE NEED TO RETHINK PROCREATION, GESTATION, NURTURE and DEVELOPMENT as WORTH IT in the interest of a better life - while we wait for cosmically mediated extinction.

PS Poor, transparent Shiney-Boy Cameron. His Georgia visit is all about putting down Gordon. Even the approval (of GB utterances) is just a show of magnanimous dominance. Animal behaviour wrapped in cerebral trickery.

WELL MEANING BUT...

It looks to me like the psychology of maturity/development rests almost exclusively on biology, and that on genes. That being so, the only way we can better manage our psychology (behaviour really) is via positive eugenics (essentially family planning) which takes generations and a planned economy.

Things look good for China and her allies, but not good for Liberal-Democracies (which by all measures are regressing, probably genetically). Sub-Saharan Africa etc can't get it together because Liberal-Democrats interfere, ostensibly because Geldof types just know they're right. Monty Don was another domestically - ever seen those bash-the-crocodile things at fair-grounds - that's how I feel about these sorts, they never stop coming.

THE CROCS JUST KEEP COMING

Sums it up JJ! A smile and closure.

WHY THEY KEEP COMING: PC TURKEYS *DO* VOTE FOR XMAS

"If you wait for a career to be successful, you may miss the best ideal age for child bearing."

in an Aug. 17 speech calling on the city-state's women to marry young and have more children to encourage population growth Linked/quoted from , although Singapore has been telling its population this for decades to little avail (see their TFR which is like other liberal-democracies in the region).

The question is, in the UK, is this a natural problem which has to be actively (eugenically) managed, or is it a natural problem which IS being actively (mis)managed politically by those on the New Left who intend to proportionately deflate the numbers in the intelligentsia whilst proportionately inflating the proportion of proles in the population (a candy-from-babies market philosophy?) This, paradoxically is the effect of 'education, education, education' plus equalities ideology in recent times but few seem to see this given they are dysgenically/impulsively/hedonistically short-sighted. Histrionic counter-argument from 'outraged' feminists or others determined to be free and independent make absolutely no difference to this bleak demographic analysis....which sadly, is empirically sound given ONS data. Frogs warmed up in a pan slowly don't jump out.

I have the following observations on this caption added to the website video of the family shot in Georgia. This is such a bad incident that editorial precision matters:

1) first of all the family were shot not 'shot at';

2) they were shot by 'suspected South Ossetian' gunmen who were 'in civilian
clothes' (and not necessarily a 'militia');

3) the incident happened not 'in Gori' but 'on the outskirts of Gori' after they took a wrong turning while driving back to Tbilisi;

4) the man was German.

All that information is in the report and it should be reflected in the captioning. In 'The Fog of War' thie still matters -
not least when accusations of 'ethnic
cleansing' are being levelled by those
wounded in such incidents.

Should such events ever come to court in The Hague video footage such as this may be used as evidence - so it is important to
get such things right .......

The reference to a 'dum dum' bullet having been used in this incident (according to the husband) was also deeply disturbing and that might be worth following up if there
is a forensic enquiry ......

Clearly Russia intends to re-integrate Georgia (along with other old territories in the future) and what are we in the West going to (or are able to) do about it. Remember Hungary and Czechoslovakia.? They are already clawing back their Industrial muscle and thank you for all the Investments which have speeded things along nicely!

inpower

You wrote "Clearly Russia intends to re-integrate Georgia (along with other old territories in the future) and what are we in the West going to (or are able to) do about it. Remember Hungary and Czechoslovakia.?"

There is a world of difference between Hungary in 1956, Czechoslavkia in 1968 and what is happening in parts of Georgia today. In 1956 and 1968, the then USSR was a communist nationalist world power intent on spreading thier poisonous idealogy world wide during the Cold War. Today in Russia they are ruled by nationalists who have no ideology that threatens our interests or essential freedoms. Russia is not a threat unless we decide treat them as such, and that would be a huge mistake on the part of the West.

Consider firstly the boundaries of Georgia. These were decided by Stalin who was intent on drawing borders of the constituent republics of the USSR which would not be sustainable except as part of the Soviet Union. Thus South Ossetia and Akhasia were incorporated within Georgia although the majority of the population were not Georgians and didn't want to be in Georgia.

It is hugely ironic, not to say extremly perverse, that we should be seeking to protect the boundaries of Stalin's synthetic creation. Do not forget that this crisis was caused by the hotheaded and idiotic Georgian President invading South Ossetia where there was a long standing Russian peace keeping force. The Georgian President was trying to gain control of the area and he caused the war. Russia was entirely justified in counter attacking.

In this instance Russia was entirely in their rights. The borders of Georgia need to be re-aligned and this would be in the long term of interests of the stability of Georgia itself.

It is time to build bridges with Russia, not to recreate a Cold War which our leaders seem intent on doing.