Â鶹ԼÅÄ

This feature deals with adult themes.

She’s played the Queen in Netflix’s popular series The Crown and now Claire Foy has taken on another aristocratic role: Playing the Duchess of Argyll in the new three-part Â鶹ԼÅÄ series A Very British Scandal.

The Emmy and Golden Globe-winning actor joined Emma Barnett on Woman’s Hour to talk about the series which tells the story of Argyll vs Argyll, one of the defining scandals of the 1960s and one of the most costly divorces of the 20th century. In the divorce hearing, the Duchess of Argyll was branded a nymphomaniac and the Duke was granted a divorce on the grounds of his wife’s adultery. It has been called the first time that a woman was ‘slut-shamed’ by the mass media.

Emma and Claire also discussed the recent stories about the safety of women and girls, whether attitudes towards women have changed since the Duchess of Argyll’s time, and why she might toast the Queen during her Christmas Day speech this year.

Here are some of the things we learned from their conversation…

1. Claire Foy was nervous about ‘playing someone posh’ in A Very British Scandal but the story got ‘under her skin’

“There were lots of reasons not to do it. Basically, I was very nervous about playing someone posh, for want of a better word. I wasn't really interested in it and didn't really want to do it. But unfortunately, she sort of got under my skin.

“I think the injustice of the story, the feeling that I felt like I really wanted to try and do something different with it, and the way that [the Duchess of Argyll] had been perceived and portrayed and how she'd been treated, not only in the public eye, but by the justice system as well, I really didn't want to let it go for that reason. That and she also was a complete mystery to me. She was really naughty, but then also really well behaved and full of contradictions. I never got to the bottom of her, basically. But it was a lot of fun.”

2. She hates the phrase ‘slut-shaming’

“I absolutely hate it. I think that women have basically been slut-shamed forever. I think Eve probably was slut-shamed.

“Much in the same way that I hate any word where we’re calling a woman a prostitute, or anything like that becomes derogatory. There's just something about it. I just hate the rephrasing of, the ownership of that title and it being used in a way which sort of justifies it even more. The word slut, I think it shouldn't probably exist.”

3. She thinks women are now able to speak more freely about their experiences than they were a few years ago

“I think there's definitely a thing about the fact that some genie has been let out of the bottle and it can't go back in.

“I can only speak from personal experience, as opposed to a cultural revolution kind of way, but I feel like there is a room and an acceptance now that I never would have had the right to say the things that I feel that I can say now. I can now have conversations with other women where it wasn't just the fact that you were told there would be scenarios at work, for example, where things would be happening that I would feel were wrong but I was told that I wasn't right by society. Now what happens is there's a forum for me and my friends and my colleagues where if something's wrong, there's someone who goes, ‘Yes, I'm affirming that is actually wrong’.

“It feels like society is now on that page that you can come out with things and talk about experiences and share what you feel is right and wrong. There is an entire avalanche of people who are there going, ‘Yes, absolutely’, and that wasn't there before. Not in my experience of being a woman. I didn't feel like that was there. I didn't feel that was that shared experience of understanding and backing each other up in that way. But I also think it's taken us this long to get to this place and I think it would be very naive to think that just a couple of events can change how everyone thinks.”

4. She resents not feeling safe outside her home

In light of the murders of Sabina Nessa and Sarah Everard, Emma asked Claire how she felt walking home at night.

“Being a woman in the public eye, unfortunately comes with risks. So I have to live my life in a way that is not exposing myself to those risks.

“I've got a daughter, and thinking back to my education and understanding of the fact that the world was not a safe place to me, I used to walk down the middle of the road with my keys in my hand; I wasn't next to a car so no one could jump out of the car; I had my keys so I could stab someone in the eye. I have been in some situations where I've been very scared and I think I am going to have to have that conversation with my daughter about the fact that there are certain things that you have to do to make sure you're not in a vulnerable position in that way. And even then you're still vulnerable. And I'm sorry about that. But I think the thing that I'm going to have to say too is, ‘It's not your fault. It’s just the way of the world and the way things have to be’. I got very angry about that. I think it's a righteous anger, it's justified and I think that the more there is anger about the fact that this shouldn't be OK, the better it can be.

“I resent not feeling safe. I feel like I'm old enough, ugly enough and I've been through enough to be able to be given that right and respect but I still don't have it and I find that very anger-making.”

5. She thinks on-screen sex scenes are ‘grim’

“You do feel exploited when you are a woman and you are having to perform fake sex on screen. You can't help but feel exploited. It's just, it's grim. It's the grimmest thing you can do and you feel exposed and everyone can try and make you not feel that way. But unfortunately, it’s the reality.

“I felt very strongly that [sex] had to be in [A Very British Scandal], but I wanted it to be female. I did not want it to be that sort of awful, climactic sexual experience that you often see on the cinema screen.

“I have definitely had experiences where I've been upset. But in A Very British Scandal there was an intimacy coordinator and then it's sort of amazing. The things that they are able to say… I just start laughing, talking about what body parts people have and where you can and cannot touch them and the padding that you can use. But it's really useful.”

6. She might toast the Queen during her Christmas Day speech

Claire Foy revealed to Emma that when she was playing the role of the Queen in The Crown, she toasted Her Majesty during her traditional Christmas Day speech. Asked whether she will do it again this year, she said she might because the Queen has had “a terrible year”.

Listen to Claire Foy’s interview with Emma Barnett in full on Â鶹ԼÅÄ Sounds, where you can also find every episode of the Woman’s Hour podcast that you may have missed. You can follow us on and . A Very British Scandal premieres on Â鶹ԼÅÄ One and Â鶹ԼÅÄ iPlayer at 9pm on 26 December 2021.