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He' s been awesome throughout his career, and I believe he will take the game to the All Blacks this weekend. Leaders are developing in Hartley, Cueto and Moody, guys who irrespective of the score / challenge seem to go forwards strongly.

Key quote for me is "and I think many other England teams down the years might have conceded a try". I think this is part of the problem for coaching team, players, media and fans. We are all looking back at an amazing squad which won us the World Cup, and making comparisons "filling the Johnson role"; "the next dallaglio" etc. The spine of that team took years to come together, gel and start competing. Everyone has one eye on living up to that legacy and expectation, while trying to build for the future to repeat the success. The Lions use the legacy as a source of inspiration, I think the England legacy has become a burden...

Niaive of me perhaps, but I think this team need to forget the past and build their own identity. I'll stick my neck out here and declare that they are a very talented group of players, capable of great things.

Good luck lads.

Not sure about this England team yet; will be there on Saturday having paid my Β£85, just like the last 3 NZ games, but do I think they'll win? or even get close like in 05? probably not.
If they showed the forward growl of 2005, that would probably be a good enough start for 6N.
Cannot believe that Mathew Tait has not started a home international since WC 07!!! that break against SA would have got him at least 3-4 game run with Aus, NZ or France, when will we realise that he is the best back England have.
Think 6N looks brighter actually, back row of Rees or Moody, Croft and Haskell would give most teams a run, Hartley looks the real deal as well. Tight head is a concern when Vicks finally stops though.
Would go for the following as best XV when all fit

Armitage
Sackey
Tait
Flutey
Cueto
Wilkinson
Ellis

Sheridan
Hartley
Vickery
Borthwick
Shaw
Rees
Haskell
Croft

Bench
Cipriani
Payne
Mears
Wilson
Lawes
Sackey
Care

Tom,

i'm sorry, but you will find more than a few who "will quibble about the benefits of adding the experience of two Lions, Simon Shaw and Joe Worsley," Especially seeing as 'lion' worsley comes at the expense of one of the shortlisted RFU World Players of The Year (and fellow Lion) Tom Croft. No-one can honestly tell me anyone who wins ugly against new zealand! its the only sure fire way to lose against them! you can almost here Carter, Nonu, Sivivatu Γ©t all saying: "what? you want us to have the ball back? mighty kind of you lads!" and adding players like Worsley at the expense of players like Croft is just plain "battening down the hatches". Im not saying i don't like Worsley, he's a good and effective player at what he does, however: in a team already containing Moody, Hipkiss, Shaw, Haskell, Wilkinson and, to a lesser degree, Erinle do you need another specialist tackler (not ball winner, tackler) at the cost of pace, line out options, and invention? no of course you dont, it's like trying to play the game with one-arm tied behind your back as soon as you switch to offense (to coin the American term).

Much the same, I am a huge admirer of Simon Shaw, yet to include him and drop Lawes out of the 22? "Im sorry son, but even looking forward to the future, Shawseys the better bet..." nonsense! If you were to include Shaw AND Lawes in the XV then awesome, you've suddenly selected Englands best second rows in the same team! congrats...deacon should have lost his place (and Im a Tigers fan!) because I honestly think that Lawes is going to be a god-awesome player, and Deacon has been about as effective as Borthwick thus far...

I know that the selection is because they're trying to limit New Zealand's game...which makes sense if you look at it entirely from THAT single perspective...but if im honest, ignoring Tait, dumping Geraghty, Foden and not selecting some of the better athletes in the team limits far more of your game than including Erinle, Shaw and Worsley is likely to limit the All Blacks. they have much more than just one weapon, and I really devoutly hope that we're not going to be taught that by fist come saturday.

and pretoria270609 you've put Sackey in your team AND on your bench man!! I know that he's good...that good though? hehe!

hmm, fair comment, meant to put Monye on wing - defo not at full back- and Sackey on bench.

Not sure about Geraghty yet though, would have played Tait at 13 instead of Hipkiss who looks out of depth.

I thought that would be it! haha

I'd have liked to see Tait outside Hipkiss personally, (im at a loss as to how Erinle has managed to work his was in the team...doess he even play at Stade?)...and Foden at FB, would definately have livened the back line up considerably!

pretoria270609 I see you've put Rees at 7 and you don't have Moody on the bench. A lot of opposition teams will love that...would have Moody,Foden and Lawes playing and Steffan on the bench...

"Sometimes you've got to win ugly," forwards coach John Wells said on Wednesday, unapologetically. "No-one wants to do that - we'd all like to put on a good performance, but the weekend's about getting the win."

Ha ha ...ah ha ha ha.. ha ha ,aaaah ha ha ha


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ah haha ha ha ha

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Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha hah aha hah ah ah ah ha ha ha ha

I've finished.

I'm a big Geraghty fan but the match up with Nonu was always worrying...

That said - I really can't see how we are going to score a try now with two lumps in the centre, an old winger who can't kick as FB, one winger with shot confidence and another who turns slower than a super tanker - and lets not forget Jonny who seems to love kicking ball to the opposition at teh moment. Stranger things have happened but that is not a team to set the pulse racing and the All blacks will lose little sleep.

Im a big fan of moody, like he says he goes out there to leave everything he has on the pitch. You can see that aswell with him chasing every kick off and pressurising every kicker.

For his workrate alone...a great asset to any team.

Is it just me when i say this? But there seems to be a bit of a trend appearing in the entire england set-up. These bright new stars (namely Foden, Brown, Morgan, Allen, Tait etc) are "blooded" into international sport, and all of those i've named have understandably had a bit of a shakey introduction.

Now, apart from Allen (who was given a couple of opportunities to shine), weren't these players dropped to the bench/released straight back to their clubs straight after their debut?

Tait being dumped by Henson and Foden simply having to clear every ball he recieved, don't really constitute as reasoning behind being dropped.

Find a new Star,
Drop the new star,
Bring back an older player coming back from injury, seem to be england coaching's guidelines.

Are these young 'stars' just being used as "blood replacements" for our injured, instead of creating a future line up?

Now, having said that, i am glad to see Moody back in the set up. Can anyone remember that incident with Tuilagi in the England - Samoa game at twickers? Cueto was savagely taken out in the air by tuilagi, and out of the blue, moody comes in all guns blazing, protecting his countryman and not his clubmate.

Although i dont quite agree with the amount of punches thrown, passion like that is sorely missed and seeing him singing the national anthem gives me every confidence and belief that england are making steps forward. Small steps maybe, but steps forwards none the less.

The booing at twickenham against Argentina really ground my gears. Yes, these fans paid Β£100's for a day out, but how on earth/when on earth, has booing ever inspried?

My ideal England team for these future steps(omitting injured players at present)

Foden
Cueto
Tait
Geraghty
Monye
Wilkinson
Care

Payne
Hartley
Bell
Lawes
Shaw
Croft (capt)
Moody
Haskell (provided he stops focusing on "brand Haskell")

Bench:

Doran-Jones
Thompson
John Clarke
Hodgson
Banahan
Worsley
Deacon

It may take years for great teams to emerge, and the players within them bond, but what we forget is that crisis (i use this to sum up the boo's echoing round twickenham) can create immediate bonds among teams.

And with our younger players asked to play alongside passion filled players like Moody and Wilkinson, i think that the future (6 nations) of English rugby is brighter than we all think.

Good on Moody. This man exemplifies the fact that bravery is not the absence of fear, but facing the fear and doing it anyway. I doubt anyone in the England side loves his country as much as Moody. We should make this man captain ahead of the pedestrian Borthwick.

At some point England need to realise that the only way to get experienced players is to give players experience. Give the likes of Tait, Geraghty, Foden and Lawes a run of games, the same way we have with Delon Armitage, and you'd start to see experienced internationals who can make the most of their talents and take on the best. While we continue to fall back on the old guard and give our youngsters the odd ten minutes here and there we'll never go anywhere

TrugbyC, i completely agree with your team; experience and flair.

I get so frustrated that all Johnno has done is pick players to, in his view, counter the ABs. When was the last time Erinle was considered a creative player? We play far too much negative rugby in England. Wells completely sums this attitude up by saying we would take winning ugly; yes we would but would prefer this to be Plan B or C, Plan A should be pick the flair players, go out and actually throw caution to the wind. If we pick the younger players they will make mistakes but they will learn and develop, look at Genia for Australia, he was given support and confidence for about 8 games and is now looking a serious talent. The way we ignore young flair players like Foden, Tait (best back to come out of England since Jerry I would argue), Strettle, Croft and Lawes (and to a certain extent Geraghty) is incredible, we must be the only team in the world that do that.

Johnno is in a unique position in that he will not be sacked if things don't go to plan on the field (probably cost too much to get rid of him!) so why not blood the youngsters??

A lot of people, both commentators and us lot, are saying this but I think the best thing is look at bringing in McGeechan or White (preferably Geech), have Johnno as his assistant to learn and get rid of Wells, Callard and Rowntree (Tigers mafia) and Ford, keep Smith and get some new coaches in. Ford and Wells have been there through 3 head coaches yet have somehow kept their jobs, any other business they would be out.

Someone needs the balls to do this, Andrew won't, and I worry Johnno has been PR'd and has lost the very attributes we all hoped he would bring to the table: honesty, no BS and firm decision making (look at the excuses he now gives, his insistence at sticking by Borthwick and Deacon and odd decisions such as playing a non ball playing 13 at 12).

For the first time in my life I honestly may miss the game on Saturday and just check the result later, I never thought I would say that but it is so demoralising and whilst everyone thinks they are a better coach than the incumbents, how can those 4 guys argue with what EVERYONE apart from them is saying???

ABs to win by 15, although if they pin their ears back it could be nearer 30 (I so hope I am wrong).

Good blog Tom, nice to get a bit of insight into the Mad One. I think he has certainly turned out to be a success - he was all raw promise a few years back, then went into penalty machine mode for a couple of years, then injured for ages... Nice to see him back where he belongs.

It's interesting that Johnson has selected him at openside; when Robinson selected him at 7 a few years ago everyone fell about laughing, as if this were final proof of Robinson's total incapacity for the job.

Worsley is a safe but decent pick for the NZ game - you can be sure he will die on his feet out there and leave a few All Blacks with sore rib-cages.

Erinle is harder to fathom. I can see the logic - someone with a certain physical stature is needed to nullify Nonu & co. But there are 2 problems: 1. Erinle doesn't know how to play at 12; and 2. He's having a miserable season at Biarritz (not Stade, as someone mentioned). He was an automatic pick at the start of the season for Biarritz, playing outside centre. As the games came and went his inability to hold onto the ball, make a decent pass, or indeed do anything useful, led to him being quietly dropped to the bench, and his only appearances of late have been for the last few minutes of games - on the wing, not at centre.

I can only assume that MJ believes his superior fitness will count - as we saw in the Heineken Cup, the French teams all benefited from starting their season fully one month before the English teams. They are that much sharper, and presumably MJ thinks Erinle will be useful in that respect. This might also explain why Goode, also having a dreadful year, was brought in.

Biarritz!! thats the one!! even so...not playing regularly...that was my point! haha :D

Re Tait

I think the thing is that Johnson absolutely wanted Tindall at 13 for the autumn games (another safe option) and so when Tins was injured, MJ could not really bring himself to pick Tait, the very antithesis of Tindall. He settled for Hipkiss, who is certainly no Tindall but at least has a bit of beef about him.

Re Foden I wonder whether he might still be paying for past transgressions? My memory might be wonky but wasn't he one of the players involved in the slightly murky affair last year on tour? Please correct me if I'm wrong! But it just seems that with every match in which Foden presses his claim for selection by playing better and better, he gets more and more ignored.

Re Croft, well he is normally a shoo-in, so maybe (being charitable here) Johnson felt that such a sure bet for the future wasn't going to damage his chances by missing one game. And he has at least explained why Worsley has been picked.

Where is Tait's best position? Is his versatility holding him back from really pushing and nailing down a spot?

I think we've got some fantastic youngsters coming through academies and now Premiership first teams, and although some are injured, I'd like to see appearances by some of them in the near future.

Alex Corbisiero looks to be a fine prop coming through, Lawes who we've seen glimpses of this series, Steffan Armitage to be given some cameos off the bench (I'm accepting it'll be nigh on impossible to replace Moody!), Simpson at Wasps is hitting some headlines (although again, there's a wealth of talent ahead of him), Turner-Hall could be our next natural centre, and a certain Danny Cipriani will have a big part to play over the next decade. And can someone else educate me in how much of a prospect both Goode & Cato (Saracens) are? Even Banahan could develop into something worth picking!

I'm sure there are some others too. I guess half the problem for Johno is the current morale/set up; in as such that its easier to rotate and introduce players to a team that's winning & playing with some confidence, heck even a team playing with a real game plan and structure and at least competing well in matches... But I really think this will shine through a bit more come February, when hopefully there will be a turnover of players from this squad too.

2 things to bring up, on this blog and a number of others people have put a (c) next to Tom Crofts name on their team sheet, just wonder what other people think of this idea, feel free to correct me if im wrong but wasnt Johnson first given the captaincy early on?

Secondly I would have liked to see a younger team (as many people have also said) would have been a win win situation for jonno as even if the team would have lost it would be "looking towards the future" i vaguely remember the 1998 tour of hell and didn't a certain jonny wilkinson emerge from that?

Hermmy,

Foden wasn't even on the tour so a bit harsh tainting him with such accusations! The bloke has a bit of swagger about him when he plays as befits a swashbuckling counter attacker... perhaps this is something Johnno and Wellsy don't like!

Strettle and Care were the poor blokes dragged into the mess by poking their heads round the door to tell Ojo and Brown to come to training. The latter two will not be picked again whilst the former two are squad members - hopefully Strettle can get back in the team soon as he is silk to Banahans sows ear.

Tom - odds on the Kiwis will target and expose Banahan for the lumbering chap that he is. However, maybe not so many kicks behind as they may be camped well in our 22 for long periods!

agree with all plaudits for Moody, always 100% committed, seems to have stopped giving away needless penalties ( mos surprising stat in otherwise awful Oz game was absence of penalties conceded in Eng half in first 30 mins).
Still think Rees, fit and in form, both big ifs, is better l/t bet, certainly for 2011.
As Rees currently/always injured, think that back row of croft haskell moody is best available.

Worsley world class tackler but croft better at everything else in my view.
Interesting to read all comments ref Borthwick; agree that he struggled last Autumn, but would changing captain now really improve team spirit? think for 2011 it should be Rees or Croft

ahh, thank you Hookers armpit, I confess to having grave doubts about my own memory of the incident. Just trying to fathom out a reason why he keeps getting overlooked I guess!

Hookers armpit. I will agree that banahan isn't at his best when turned but he is good in the tackle and an organisational leader on the field - i can't remember how many times he has been ordering people around at the breakdown, with the leadership issues england have at the moment i wouldn't want to lose that. the main problem is that england haven't been using him effectively in attack when he runs no one goes with him and he would be looking to draw the tacklers and offload or have someone else draw some and burst through. nor has he had many opportunities for crossfield kicks - i only remember one from the 2 games and he won that ball.

With Banahan, does anybody else think that NZ are technically good enough to leg him, get him down and deal with the only problem he oposes....his size?.

Theres no substitute for pace and he doesnt have enough of it to stand out if he is nullified in the tackle area.

I'm resigned to the fact that I seem to watch a different game to the one that about 80% of bloggers and 606ers see when England play.
Last week I saw a win against a side ranked n0 4 in the world, who deserved to come 3rd in the last RWC.
In the first half, Argentina played a spoiling game which was largely successful. In the second half, England played as good rugby as I've seen for 2/3 years. Yet the Sky commentators (Mr Barnes particularly) continued to talk down England, as if there was no discernible change in the first and second half displays, so that when England scored an excellent try, it seemed to come as a complete surprise to them.
Monye had a nightmare game, and his contribution, together with JW's seriously poor kicking out of hand, made England look a far worse team than they actually were on the day. I expect a great game from Monye and JW on Saturday.
Nobody mentioned Bell's performance: I think that he locked out the scrum better than anybody has in recent years (incl White) and I thought that was a big part in England's improvement, esp when you consider the Argentine ability in the tight. I expect him to do the same on Saturday, esp when I read that the Italians demolished the ABs in the scrum.
Moody is finally realising his full potential, which is great news for England. But others are putting their hands up as well - Hartley, Haskell, Wilson etc. I think that we're putting together a world-class back row (on balance I reckon MJ should have stuck with Croft for the long term benefit, even tho I can see why Worsley is in as a short term measure), Hodgson was a plus. I even think Deacon has peformed well, even though people are lining up to take potshots at him on 606! If you do not see a lock, it usually means he's doing his job properly; the same is true for Borthwick. Don't tell me that Johnno was revered for his 20 metre dashes: two metre lunges and present the ball were his forte!
I expect it to be a very close game on Saturday, with a much improved performance again from England. Putting good Test teams together does not happen overnight.

Re Croft: I think that it may be a mixture of both, i understand johnno's reasons for going with Worsley, but I think that instead of trying to find the players to fit the broken system, we should be starting to develop a system that suits the best players that we have in this country. I know that national bias may have something to do with this theory: but lets consider it for the sake of it:

Tom Croft, Matthew Tait, Cipriani (minus the stropping), Tom Rees, James Haskell, Jordan Crane, Courtney Lawes, Danny Care, Dan Hipkiss, Ugo Monye, David Strettle, Ben Foden, Dylan Hartley, Shane Geraghty, Anthony Allen, Matt Smith...

looking at that brief (and very general), list (i admit that my knowledge of up-and-coming props is lacking, and would like to ask if thats due to the absence of any up and coming props or me just not looking hard enough?) we have some players there who have the potential to be world beaters...however: the system that england are stuck in doesnt seem to be able to accomodate these players to their strengths, so they are shunned in order to find a foot that fits the current shoe (so to speak). This is, in my view, the reason that we have not progressed as a rugby nation in about 4 years. We refuse to develop our game with the changing times. We have players, like Croft, who shine for club and Lions, Babarians etc, by playing in roles the suit their games, making it a huge benefit for their team as they know that whoever it is will be doing their job well, and so can concentrate on their own job, not other peoples (eg. Johnny Wilkinson having to tackle anything that ran towards Shane Geraghty vs. Australia). England need to learn their players strengths, and begin to invent a system that compliments those strengths:

Eg: Matt Banahan is a beast of a man, and will run through anything that doesnt take him on the knees or lower, and does, keeping his arms free for an offload, or allowing him to keep running. The england set up though has not yet taken advantage of this; Hartley and Deacon have no place in the midfield as support runners, not fast enough, hands not soft enough, and as such, means more often than not the winger is isolated, not through his own fault, but the positioning of his team mates, whether that through the system or not: result: turnover, penalty or VERY slow ball.

Point: We really need some new shoes, as the current ones are old and worn and not fit for rugby in this age

Be honest, England's second XV will struggle against almost full strength NZ. Surely Jonno's thinking is that an inexperienced, attack-focused side could get absolutely hammered, as has happened on ill-fated tours to the southern hemisphere. This would cause serious damage to new personnel and overall team morale. So damage limitation is priority for first 50-60 minutes, try to make a game of it, then try some new combinations in the final quarter. 'Stodgy but respectable' against NZ is a better outcome than 'record defeat'. The big regret is that we didn't make more of an impression against Aus and Arg when the opportunity was there. Against NZ, forget it.

Glad someone other than me sees that banahan isn't being used effectively. I also agree with you that we aren't using the other players coming through effectively - i wonder if that is because the coaches think that the players coming through will fill the mold of those they are replacing. eg any no 8 we play must be able to knock the stuffing out of players, win ball at the beakdown and carry in the loose exactly as delaligo did.

in answer to your question croftalicious Wilson is up and coming and there are a couple of other props at bath coming into the first team from the acadamy what with injurys and call ups.

on a more general note it is a shame to see england not looking to the future - everyone would be more forgiving and understanding about losing these games, if we said right any player we pick now must be fit to be around for at least 4 years and build up a close side that works well together

As someone whose son once took a try scoring pass from MJ, I appreciate Moody's directness.
England need more 'go forward', with backs + forwards running onto the ball at pace, not stationary or going sideways. A certain Wasps scrumhalf is showing the way! Let's hope the ref is not as in awe of the AB's as Alain Rolaine was last year (Eng yellow cards 4 - AB's none).
Come on England!

17, Goode looked excellent against South Africa on Tuesday.

Btw, isn't Moody 31?

Well, Moody featured positively against NZ, unlike Banahan + Care (knock ons). Borthwick could do with a bit more 'mad dog' himself!