Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ

Great article Paul. We love Peter Reid. He has a football brain and has a knack of winning matches at any level.


If you have chance to read my article please do so

I am shocked that Reid was never considered for Premiership jobs considering the success he had at Sunderland. Maybe things had stagnated during his later years at the Stadium of Light, but i'm sure he would have turned things around.

Replacing him with Wilko was a grave error.

I am also shocked that he has had to drop down to league 1 for a managerial post. He did not do an awful job at Coventry and under difficult circumstances led Leeds to Premiership Survival in 2003.

Personally if Everton were ever to lose Moyes, i'd hope that Reidy would be considered for the role.

My fear is though that by failing this far down, he could ruin his career completely. I hope he does not fail but Plymouth to me do not have a magnificent set up with great resources. Possibly had he joined Southampton or Charlton I could understand why he has come so far down.

But a sacking from the Pilgrims and I fear we will never see Reid again.

Reids time at Leeds wouldn't be that fondly remembered by many fellow Leeds fans but it was hardly his fault that he couldn't save the club from the mess previous regimes had got it into.

He was at the club for less than a year but i've always felt he did well considering the club were in absolute financial melt down at the time. Any decent player we had were either gone or about the go. He oversaw the memorable 6-1 win at Charlton and the 3-2 win at Arsenal which ultimately helped us survive that season after Venables had jumped ship.

tomefccam
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we are building up the club off the pitch all the time and will start work on a new main stand to take Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ Park to 27,000 at the end of this season with up to date facilities and if England wins the world cup bid, the whole stadium will be renovated to 43,000. Its still an ambitious club and if Reid does well then hopefully we can match his expectations. Southampton would probably sack any manager who hasnt got them in the top 2 by Christmas, im sure we will give Reid plenty of time to build a side whether it happens this season or not.

It was a surprise when Reid took the job at Stoke. It's hard to view him as anything other than a boss.

It's to his credit that he doesn't have an ego, meaning he is prepared to take a job in the lower leagues, unlike some who wouldn't be seen outwith the top flight.

Peter Reid is certainly a well travelled manager by the sound of things Paul - hopefully he can put all that knowledge into good effect at Plymouth.

Interesting comment about his 90-91 season at Man City where they finished 5th...going on to say how a lot's changed since then...well in many ways you could say from that stat a lot has also stayed the same ;) I hope Reidy too comes full circle and ends up back in his rightful place at a Premier League club.

# 4.marsman
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I wish I could share your optimism. It is all well and good building a stadium but if you cannot fill it, then the sad fact is that it will do completely the opposite to generating income. "If you build it...they will come". Unfortunately, in real life this does not apply.

Plymouth are also a club with little or no successful history and have never come close to reaching the premiership. Sturrock worked wonders for th club and reaching the Championship is equal to a Champions League win for this club. I really do not know what Reid can do with this side.

Also what are your thoughts on Mariner still being involved, I saw him on the sidelines during the Southampton match. I can't see Rediy taking to well to his involvement, and by all accounts he is not an individual much liked within the game

Only a little jealous Plymouth got him. I would have loved to see him at Charlton when we were still a Championship outfit (or even instead of that waste of space Dowey).

Maybe then we wouldn't be spending this season finally getting back on track.

But good luck to him and all that sail on the good ship Plymouth.

I'm not convinced that Peter Reid is a top manager but he's willing to put the effort in. Time spent around the lower leagues and watching other clubs/coaches in action should help broaden his approach (no mention of expletive laden team talks here).
He seems able to motivate and galvanise so if Plymouth get moving in the right direction soon enough, they could build momentum towards a quick return to the Championship.
Perhaps Souness will follow his lead and learn the ropes properly.

tomefccam
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im sorry but thats a little absurd. Argyle are at least the match of clubs like Reading, Hull, Wigan, Bolton, Fulham, Watford, Burnley, Barsnley before they reached the top flight and even compare favourbaly with the likes of Middlesbrough and Blackburn before they saw success in the 90s. It is all about getting it right off the pitch then on it. Hull proved that, so did Reading etc, there is every evidence if you know this club and area to believe Plymouth could sustain a successful Premier League club if everything was got right. There arent any signs that coaching relationships arent working, most argyle fans feel with Carver, Mariner and Reid, we have an extremely strong coaching line-up to get us out of this division quickly.

Could be a great appointment. Reid is obviously not afraid of a challenge and i'm impressed that he spent time with various clubs trying to improve as a manager. I'm sure plenty do it but at Reids age it deserves credit. He also left a cushy number with Stoke so Plymouth have at least got a determined manager willing to put his reputation on the line. I hope it isnt the ruination of him.

It amazes me that people keep employing failed managers like Reid. Maybe this is why we have a lack of coaches in this country. Here is a bloke who sets teams out to kick the opposition & hoof long balls up top. Not enough Lee Clark or Eddie Howe type managers are given a chance yet Reid is on his 6th club!!

The longer people like him & Allardyce, Megson, Bryan Robson etc... keep getting jobs the longer it will be before we produce young skilful players & not robots who can run all day.

It never ceases to amaze me that these managers who have never won anything continue to get jobs. I thugh English football neede to go through a revolution and after the World Cup it was an opportunity to bring through young English coaches who would re-invigorate passion in the game and make the nation proud. No what happens is that the old boys club continue to employ these managers who will talk about "game of two halves" "playing fotr the shirt" blah blah blah..

Sorry Plymouth you have got this one wrong!

#10. marsman
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Fair point about getting it right off the pitch first as this is the modern way of doing things. However, if you want to be a maintained success which the two examples you give have not, then the plan must be more long term.

It should be a club and manager with a sound long term plan. It should be a club with a sound youth system that has a record of promoting players from within. It should be a club that attracts players and sadly I must say that I believe Plymouth fall at these hurdles.

Reid will not be afforded time to mould a squad based on what he wants. Which is a competetive side, with youth and experience. With wingers and with combative midfield players and with a working forward partnership. His mould that he used well with both Man City and Sunderland was based around the Everton side he played in in the 1980's.

Unfortunately for Plymouth, their catchment area historically has provided very few players. And they are never likely to compete with the top clubs for talent from richer areas such as merseyside, newcastle and London. As for existing players, I doubt the club will have the pull to bring them into the club ahead of competitors

Good luck to Plymouth. Peter Reid should never have lost his job at Sunderland. His work there including the Academy is still evident.

#14 tomefccam

RE: Youth Policy

Isn't this the same Argyle Youth set up that produced a certain Dan Gosling which a certain Everton bought off us? And wasn't this the same Everton which failed at the simplest of admin issues and cost our club a hefty amount of money

Before accusing us of falling at hurdles, take a look closer to home

No Sunderland fan would forget what Peter Reid has done for us in the past, he shouldn't have been sacked all those years ago. (Especially to be replaced by Howard and Steve Cotterill) good luck to him in League 1, with a manager like him at the helm I have no difficulty in predicting the Pilgrims to be around the Play-offs come the end of the season.

tomefccam
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What "competitors" are you talking about? Im not saying we can outdo Liverpool, Newcastle and Chelsea. We already offer about the finest standard of living for a player with all due respect to the north west, merseyside etc being in a hugely attractive part of the country which is an asset. When you add that to a potential world standard stadium with world class facilities then yes, i would hope that would help attract the sort of player wed need to climb the divisions. Im not saying we will be a champions league club in 10 years but the top fight is definate and realistic target, what precisely is less attractive about our club than the wigans, hulls, blackpools that have all managed it? Odd.

Reid,like Robson, has to been viewed as one of the worst managers ever to disgrace a football pitch.If his training methods are varied and stimulating how come what comes out of this is predictable,stodgy,huff and puff banality that at times is almost unwatchable.I think he found his level at Thailand.

I don't know why people see Peter Reid as a 'long ball manager'.

His Manchester City and Sunderland teams were entertaining to watch. They played football on the floor, and scored plenty of goals. He had Niall Quinn in those teams, and he played to Quinn's strengths of course, but he also encouraged skilled players.

Is it just because he's apparently mates with Sam Allardyce? Or is he just too working class, earthy and plain speaking for some people? Doesn't speak with a French accent and talk about 'technique' endlessly.

Peter Reid is being received by the vast majority of Argyle supporters as a breath of fresh air, return to common sense, basics and talking the truth. If we need to step backwards to come farther forward, then he is the honest plain speaking man to command respect and achieve targets. I hope that the board are as progressive as they state, and support Peter in both the short and long term and turn around a club whose supporters more than well derserve long term senior league success.

At 4:02pm on 18 Aug 2010, Subterranean wrote:
I don't know why people see Peter Reid as a 'long ball manager'.

Is it just because he's apparently mates with Sam Allardyce? Or is he just too working class, earthy and plain speaking for some people? Doesn't speak with a French accent and talk about 'technique' endlessly.

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Perhaps they see him as a long ball manager because that is the style his teams tend to play? I doubt people are concerned with his lack of a French accent, or any other Xenophobic twaddle that you have suggested.
Is that clear?

I watched a lot of City games when we appointed Reidy and we finished 5th,5th and he got sacked when we finished 6th following year with more or less same players we were 17th i think and relegated year after.The difference was Peter Reid as manager and sacking him cost us a decade.

Reid is a long ball manager at Sunderland he used Quinn as a big useless lump for Phillips to feed off. Nothing to do with him being mates with that other cancer on our game Fat Sham. Name 1 England international either Reid or Sham has brought through as a youth player? I think Wenger has done more for our national side...

As I said before if we persist in employing the same rubbish managers then we will suffer as a country.

I could never see Reid as a second in command. He was always a leader. I wish him and Plymouth well and I'm a Liverpool fan!

Re: Subterranean, you're spot on.

There is such a large amount of snobbery when people talk about English managers like Reid which always annoys me. He's English, over 50 so he must be 'old school' and a 'long ball' merchant.

JamJay1 mentions xenophobia, but theres just as much xenophilia these days in football. Foreign manager = progressive, modern, technical whereas English manager = old fashioned, long ball, tactically inept, regardless of who he is or what he's done in the game. As subterranean said, if Reid was French, Dutch or Italian I doubt people would have these problems with him.

Bognor rock.. You talk utter garbage.

Peter reid is a good manager ...has something a lot of other managers don't have BALLS ! He doesn't beat round the bush like the 'new managers'

Great article Paul and fantastic debate as a result.

A view from a Sunderland supporter:

It seems there is a difference of opinion on Peter Reid from the stakeholders of the debate above, this seems to mirror that of the thinking from Sunderland supporters when Reid left the club. Some said "Reid deserved to be sacked, he was lost in the transfer market and could not take the club forward", others said "how can you sack a manager after 8 games of a season when he had kept Sunderland in the premier league for 3 consecutive years, a feat that hadn't been achieved by Sunderland for many decades before hand"

My view is in agreeance with the latter. I think Reid must be the unluckiest manager of all time, to be relieved of his duties at Manchester City despite consecutive finished of 5th, 5th and 6th. To be relieved of his duties at Sunderland despite 3 consecutive finishes including finished of 7th and 7th.

The comments re: his style I disagree with, I don't think Reid has a particular style I think he takes 1 game at a time and utilises the strength's of his team to deal with any particular opponent. For Sunderland I witnessed varying style's of play from outright attack to solidity in defence, from fast flowing passing football to accurate distribution of long balls. I witnessed the 30 minute demolition of a Chelsea team at home seeing Sunderland march into a 4-0 lead with the team playing football that can only be described as elite class. I witnessed one of the greatest games Wembley had ever seen in the 4-4 draw with Charlton in the play-off final. All in all Reid was extremely successful and displayed an array of differentiation in his management style which enabled Sunderland to become a more flexible team and win games that would otherwise have been very difficult to win.

To clarify on the long ball front, let it be known that Reid was a huge fan of the skillful wingers (Summerbee and Johnson spring to mind) and would utilise the height of Niall Quinn by encouraging balls into the box from wide areas - this does not encompass long ball football but mirrors that of the Beckham style at Man Utd for over a decade - I wouldn't expect Alex Ferguson to receive the same criticism!!!

To Plymouth Fans:

In April 1995 I was a ballboy at Sunderland football club, I witnessed Reid's first game in charge when Sunderland were languishing in a relegation scrap in the championship (known then as league 1), we were a hopeless team with the club in a very messy state of affairs. Sunderland fought to win that game 1-0 against non other than a strong and dependable Sheff Utd. Reid steered Sunderland to safety and followed up with promotion the following season. He turned the corner for Sunderland and things started to look brighter, a more disciplined and passionate Sunderland team took to the pitch, Stakeholders of the club became more positive and trusting in such a way they began to invest in the club and develop it as it needed. Reid turned Sunderland from a relegation (to league 2) threatened club into the sometimes familiar "yo-yo club" who became renowned for bouncing between the Premier league and the Championship. He then changed that, the club ans the team were developing year after year and the season after the disappointment of the play-offs saw Sunderland smash the Championship points record by accumulating 105 points and scoring a myriad of goals in the process (all in a very breathtaking and entertaining manner) - at that point Sunderland were clearly way too good to be a championship side. This was proved when Reid helped consolidate Sunderland as a premier league club prior to his departure. Plymouth fans should be excited by the prospect of having Reid at the helm because he is in his element when there is a challenge and a long winding road ahead of him!!! He is one of the best managers to turn clubs around and only Roy Keane is close to building a similar record (also Sunderland and now Ipswich).

To all you who say Reid cannot produce entertaining football - my statement to you would be go out and find some televised matches during his era (encompassing all of his years and not just the last season and 8 games) and you will have to change your opinion otherwise I personally suggest you go ee an optician.

To all you who say Reid never produced quality youth players - I beg to differ, Reid left Sunderland in late 2002 only 8 years ago, during his time at Sunderland the club develop a state of the art academy which has since seen some very talented young players coming through the ranks. This does not happen overnight and the results we have seen recently (henderson, meyler, waghorn, leadbitter...) are all as a result of the academy and some of this credit must be given to Peter Reid!!!

Good Luck Plymouth and I hope in a few years (give him 5-6) we will see you mounting a serious challenge for the Premiership.

To all you who say Reid never produced quality youth players - I beg to differ, Reid left Sunderland in late 2002 only 8 years ago, during his time at Sunderland the club develop a state of the art academy which has since seen some very talented young players coming through the ranks.
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People give mabnagers far too much credit when it comes to youth and academies.

1. You can only bring through what walks up to your door. The best academy in the world will produce nothing if the kids who enter it do not have the talent to begin with. Similarly a Rooney, Lampard or Gerrard would have been a huge succeess even coming througha rubbish one.

2. Managers often have little real say over the setup and running of academies, most are run as a fairly seperate entity to avoid the issues with regard to managers leavign every few years.

3. Even when they do have a say they rarely if ever actually work with the players until they get near the reserve team level. Do you honestly think that Fergie spent time every day with Scholes, Beckham, Giggs and co as tehy were developing the fundamentals of their game?

#16. London_Green wrote

Yes the admin error cost both Plymouth and Everton financially. But the only real loser is the fact Gosling has left a wonderful club like Everton.

I've said for a while now, especially when Gosling broke through with Everton, he will never be a top class player. Average at best, and will linger around lower table premiership teams and top level championship teams for his career. Just like Robert Earnshaw.

The production of this one average premiership player does not justify an argument for a successful Plymouth youth system. In fact he left the club at the first opportunity.

# 18. marsman
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In terms of competitors I mean Charlton, Southampton, Huddersfield etc.
You note again team like Hull and Blackpool. For them a Year in the premiership is almost the pinnacle of their existance, and something they are never likely to achieve again or certainly sustain when they are there to establish themselves as a premiership side. All I am saying is that Reid is someone who could manage a club with the ability to do all that. Derby, Nottm Forest, Leeds etc.

In relation to other points about Reids style. it is completely xenophobic and also unbefitting of his achievements as a manager. Look at someone like Brendan Rogers who can seemingly choose whatever championship side to manage. A man who maybe a good coach but is proving to be a terrible manager. And also a manager with little integrity as he displayed when he left Watford to ruin a decent Reading side

#30

Paul - great article, and a good debate following.
In answer to how the Green Army feel about Peter's appointment - I've gone and put Β£50 on us to go straight back up at 11/2. Answer your question?

Great article thanks, the lower leagues rarely get enough attention do they?

Reid is making all the right noises as far as i'm concerned. One thing I would change if I were him, and obviously he'd have to go through our dodgy board once he's settled to do this, and that is to allow one of Mariner or Carver to go as two coaches is excesive at this level, much better to free the money for a much needed striker or midfielder.

Cheers

Re: Milf_2_sugars

Many thanks for the constructive response, you've put me in my place thats for sure.

But the only real loser is the fact Gosling has left a wonderful club like Everton.
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But joined a significantly bigger one with a ground that isnt a total dump in Newcastle. :)

37. At 11:34am on 19 Aug 2010, marsman wrote:
But the only real loser is the fact Gosling has left a wonderful club like Everton.
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But joined a significantly bigger one with a ground that isnt a total dump in Newcastle. :)
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Ah the same dump that once hosted a world cup semi final. That Pele described as the best ground he ever played at. I doubt you've even visited the place. It holds 40,000 people. Yes there are a lot of obstructed views. The reason why Everton wish to move is not because it is a dump but because of the location being amongst housing estates that allow for now expansion.

But yes, a wonderful club who have a trophy cabinet much richer than that of Newcaastle. Have currently one of the best squads in our league and have finished in the top 5 twice in the last 3 years. One FA Cup final appearance and a UEFA cup quarter final, league cup semi final to boot. Champions league qualification not too long back if I remember correctly.

Cheers

peter reid sacked by Man City sacked by Sunderland sacked by Leeds sacked by Coventry ,Thailand could not wait to get rid of him .
he will have his usual good start and then it will fade ,how do I know? ,see above

Peter Reid was not really an international class footballer. He was a tough, indestructible hoofer and was an asset, but very little more. Having seen him in a documentary on TV, he came across as relatively simple, foul mouthed and unoriginal. I do not recall him ever saying anything original or thought provoking.

His managerial career can be described as fair. Perhaps he was better when he was younger and fresher at Sunderland many years ago. At Coventry City he was an unmitigated disaster, especially as he followed an excellent coach called Eric Black. He turned a very promising team in to a side of non achieving, relegation threatened hoofers.

As he has aged and matured, perhaps he will be a good manager for Plymouth. He has respect in certain quarters and people in the game will give him the time of day and help him out here and there. But I have to wonder why a club Chairman appoints people like Peter Reid when there are enthusiastic and innovative younger coaches available. Or perhaps, in League One, Peter has found the right levl for his brand of football management skills.

As an Exeter fan I am quite concerned, that Reid may actually get rid of the highly paid rubbish players, sort the squad into a coherent unit and do well.

Fingers crossed the Green Army finishes below the Red one!

40. At 12:57pm on 19 Aug 2010, King-Dion wrote:
Peter Reid was not really an international class footballer. He was a tough, indestructible hoofer and was an asset, but very little more. Having seen him in a documentary on TV, he came across as relatively simple, foul mouthed and unoriginal. I do not recall him ever saying anything original or thought provoking.

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I think you're being very harsh on Reid.

As a player, I remember him as the tigerish midfield ball-winner in an Everton side managed by Howard Kendall with the likes of Ratcliffe, Bracewell, Trevor Steven and Gary Lineker in that team, they were a stylish side that played football the right way.

I'm sure Kendall was a big influence on Peter Reid's footballing philosophy.

The stuff about him being a long ball manager is absolute nonsense, in my view. I think Reid would always argue that you have to play to a team's strengths. perhaps in a short term situation he would ask a team to play a different way to get them out of trouble but that makes him pragmatic, not simple. Sometimes you have to keep it simple for players so they know their jobs, particularly at lower levels. You can't go into lower league clubs and start asking them to play like Brazil if they haven't got talented enough players there to do so.

22. At 4:55pm on 18 Aug 2010, JamTay1 wrote:
At 4:02pm on 18 Aug 2010, Subterranean wrote:
I don't know why people see Peter Reid as a 'long ball manager'.

Is it just because he's apparently mates with Sam Allardyce? Or is he just too working class, earthy and plain speaking for some people? Doesn't speak with a French accent and talk about 'technique' endlessly.

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Perhaps they see him as a long ball manager because that is the style his teams tend to play? I doubt people are concerned with his lack of a French accent, or any other Xenophobic twaddle that you have suggested.
Is that clear?

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Well his teams don't 'tend' to play that style and clearly you need to understand the difference between xenophobia and my own argument where I criticise people for applying false stereotypes to managers.

A good definition of xenophobia would be that post you made on another blog where you said you don't think people have as much passion for the England cricket team any more because too many of the players were born in South Africa.

40. At 12:57pm on 19 Aug 2010, King-Dion wrote:
Peter Reid was not really an international class footballer. He was a tough, indestructible hoofer and was an asset, but very little more.
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Peter Reid was a fantastic all round footballer. Very close to Roy Keane. For this reason he was voted 4th best in world footballer of the year 1985. Not bad considering he was only beaten into place by Platinin, Maradona and Elkjaer.

When you consider Englands CM options throughout the mid 80's, this tells you why he did not win more caps

Wilkins, Hoddle, Webb, Hodge, Robson, McMahon

I'm not saying that Peter Reid was a bad footballer. He was a competent, combative midfielder and an asset to his clubs. He was simply uninspiring and nowhere near as good as Wilkins, Hoddle, Webb, Hodge, Robson, McMahon and a dozen other midfielders of that era. He was the working man in that great Everton side of the mid 1980's.

Of course manager's have to play to the strengths of their teams. Good managers make their teams stronger, better, more attractive and hopefully winners. Unfortunately Peter Reid has not really succeeded. He can turn an ordinary team into another ordinary team, but he does not seem able to gather inspiring players or teams.

If I supported Plymouth I would be happy to give him a season to try and get promotion. But I would doubt he has the ability or wherewithal. I may be wrong. Time will tell. I have nothing against him other than when I have seen him on TV he has been uninspired, unoriginal and boring.

Paul - to answer your question...

Argyle have been regularly losing football matches for much of the past two years, and losing is a much harder habit to break than winning. Much of Reid's squad is unchanged and thus he has got a hell of a challenge to forge a winning team out of the players at his disposal.

We're very strong at the back, but possibly one of the weakest sides in the division going forward. Many of our fans think we've got some great attacking options, but that's true only on paper (World Cup striker etc etc). Currently we couldn't create a way out of a paper bag, and 0-0, 1-1 and 1-0/0-1 will be regular scores in matches involving Argyle this season (our three scorelines so far this season? 1-0, 0-1 and 1-1).

It'll be mid-table for us this season. Maybe next year, Reidy.

And as for Reid's style, he took Rory Fallon off after just 37 minutes last Saturday because his team-mates were knocking too many long balls up to him. I think that should draw a line under him being a long-ball merchant.

We've spent Β£500,000 on a new state-of-the-art pitch at Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ Park, and to keep the ball in the air would be criminal!

Reid was an excellent player in his day, as key to that Everton side as Makelele was for years to Chelsea or Mascherano is to Liverpool now.

i remember his Sunderland side playing some pretty decent football too, think he'll do ok at League one level.

Reid in for fabio once he gets us in the preimer league ;)

Although I grew up in Plymouth, I've always been dispassionate about Argyle, but now I follow them from afar and wish them well. This appointment strikes me as an excellent one for the green army - Reid clearly has the appetite for the role, unlike, say, Steve Coppell at Bristol City, and the nous and experience to do well in League One. Playoffs at least, I think.

Argyle aside, Paul, have you considered giving advice on how to write an interesting blog that generates informed debate, not vitriol and abuse, to the Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ's sports editor? Just an idea...

I wish I could share your optimism. It is all well and good building a stadium but if you cannot fill it, then the sad fact is that it will do completely the opposite to generating income. It is the wonderful opinion the things which are mentioned and used here are numerous. The think need to be sorted out as it about the individual but it can be with everyone.
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allen424

Great article Paul - good to see Peter Reid back in the hot seat where he belongs. He built a great side at Sunderland. Would love to know which Thai players he thinks can cut it in England, has a Thai player ever played in the Football League before...anyone? I'm at a loss.

I used to be an admirer of Peter Reid the footballer and his skills in the midfield. Hope he succeeds in passing on his enormous experience and expertise to his new team. Best wishes to Peter in his challenging mission as football manager.


Dr. Cajetan Coelho

#4

Do you really want a 40,000 odd capacity stadium with only 8,000 fans in it? How are you going to fund it anyway, the club has sold the ground to a holding company owned by the directors which seems ominous. You don't even have your own training ground!

#34

You won't get any money from that bet, playoffs at best for Argyle this year.

Perhpas Reid might actually have what it takes to reform squad...time will no doubt tell.