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Tuesday 14 September 2010

Lucy Rodgers | 11:41 UK time, Tuesday, 14 September 2010

Here's what we're planning for tonight's programme:

Archbishop Vincent Nichols, the leader of the Roman Catholic Church in England and Wales, has brushed off concerns that there may be a lack of interest in the Pope's visit. The archbishop's comments came after it emerged that thousands of tickets remained unsold for events during the visit of Pope Benedict XVI, due to arrive in the UK on Thursday.

So what sort of welcome will the Pope receive in Britain, and is there really a sense of indifference to the Pontiff's arrival? We'll also ask to what extent Britain may be a more secular place than it was in 1982 when Pope John Paul II made the journey from Rome.

We'll have the latest on the public inquiry into the murder of loyalist prisoner Billy Wright. The report has concluded that serious failings by the prison service, not state collusion, led to his death. We'll have exclusive footage of former Maze prisoners, including one of Wright's killers, Christopher "Crip" McWilliams, who told Newsnight back in 2000 how he believed the prison authorities had "turned a blind eye" to the murder.

We'll also have the second of Tim Whewell's powerful films on private fostering in Britain. Ten years after the death of eight-year-old Victoria Climbie, he finds it is still easy for a child to be brought into the UK and grow up "invisible" to the authorities.

And finally, ahead of Battle of Britain Day tomorrow - a time when many Britons reflect on the Blitz and how it shaped the nation's identity - we will be exploring what impact the allied bombing of Germany had on the German national psyche.

Do join Jeremy at 10.30pm on ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ Two.

Comments

  • Comment number 1.

    JUDICIOUS KILLING BUT NEVER JUDICIAL KILLING

    The political mind is like none other. Governments are vehemently opposed to the death penalty - a truly transparent process, that results in one, documented death at a time. But they are more than happy to mow down or flatten, any number of undocumented Johnnie Foreigners.

    On balance (even putting aside Princess Diana and Dr Kelly) it would seem highly probable that political homicide is a 'government option', available on demand, free at the point of use.

    The parallel between the Catholic Church and government is clear. The central power sees powerless folk as low-value and expendable.

  • Comment number 2.

    To the Unions watch !

    Steve Keen one switched on economist on Max Keiser :-




    "increase inflation - raise wages" "its the last thing they will do"

  • Comment number 3.

    I am amazed that the Pope is still coming to this country after all the negative press he has received, he has hardly acknowledged the resentment and fury the Catholic Church has been on the receiving end. The recent Panorama programme on the abuse within the Church could not have come at a worse time. This is not the ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ putting the boot in, this is an exposure that has lain dormant for fifty years and covered up by high ranking priests and because of complaints of thousands of victims it is fitting that these matters are aired without delay. Congratulations to the Panorama team to get this subject out before the visit..

  • Comment number 4.

    A question:

    Has anybody seen Chris Adkins' documentary 'Starsuckers'?

  • Comment number 5.

    @flicks

    It seems that you have to be very careful how you represent "accusations" of white collar crime on the ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ.

    Anyone interested in the possible fraudulent activities of financial companies should Google: finra hft manipulation

    "HFT firms have been suspected of manipulative practices for years, but no one has ever been able to prove anything. That changed today when FINRA charged Trillium."



    This raises two key questions:

    1) Are we just scratching the surface of discovering the extent of financial fraud? (recent fines have been issued to amongst others JPM and GS)

    2) Why are these sorts of white collar misdemeanors generally only treated with modest financial punishment (i.e. a fine with no formal acceptance of liability)?

    Does banking regulation not have the might and teeth of the law behind it? Or is it just window dressing?

  • Comment number 6.

    THOSE WHO CAN HEAR GOD CLEARLY DO SOME VERY ODD THINGS (#3)

    St Tony of Delusion, is known to have made at least one (proxy) visit to (or visitation upon) another country, without any thought to his popularity there.

    It would seem it is in the nature of those who care, at a level beyond the ordinary mortal, that they turn up all over the place, in the name of the One True God, costing the 'host' nation untold money and leaving not a wrack behind when they triumphantly depart.

    Did I hear that St Tony will be progressing WITH the Pope at some location? I hope no one's eyes are damaged. Although such blinding would be a blessing beyond measure.

    Oh - it will all go awfully well.

  • Comment number 7.

    IMMATURITY IN THE APE CONFUSED BY LANGUAGE

    Just look at the behaviour of our 'leaders' and at the prizes they aspire to. Listen to their utterances: the bunch who STILL ape the 'Blair Glottal' and the blatant use of the 'Political Answer'.

    If our leaders are immature, what chance the bottom of the heap?

    Does schooling set out to mature, mature, mature? No - it goes in for Blairtant 'education, education, education', which equates to 'institutionalisation, institutionalisation, institutionalisation'. Only by so doing, can the curse of Westminster, Westminster Westminster be perpetuated.

    Teach BEING not DOING. That will surely SPOILPARTYGAMES.

  • Comment number 8.

    Hawkeye_pierce - Bingo you got it and its gigantic, no galactic. We have the 'alleged' silver/gold manipulation and now this HFT.

    They are just waking up at the wheel of the titanic while they show the public blab shows with a side serving of fostering fractional reserve delusion by way of denile .

  • Comment number 9.

    "2. At 12:53pm on 14 Sep 2010, flicks2 wrote:
    To the Unions watch !

    Steve Keen one switched on economist on Max Keiser "-

    "Max Keiser (born January 23, 1960) is a film-maker, broadcaster and former broker and options trader. Keiser is the host of On the Edge, a program of news and analysis hosted by Iran's Press TV. He also hosts Keiser Report, a financial tabloid, that broadcasts on RT (formerly Russia Today)"



    In whose best interests might Max Keiser work looking solely at likely outcome?

    Just ask yourself, who do you have in mind to regulate, flicks2? That is the real question in the end. Please don't say "Janet Tavakoli" (Iranian husband), as she is a commentator and regulation requires government, not anarchism..

  • Comment number 10.

    3. At 1:02pm on 14 Sep 2010, stevie wrote:

    "This is not the ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ putting the boot in, this is an exposure that has lain dormant for fifty years and covered up by high ranking priests"

    Not putting the boot in? Then answer me this: Why no investigations into Anglican, Jewish, Hindu, Sikh etc paedophiles too? Why has it just been Catholics? Do you really think there is something special about catholic clergy which makes them more likely to be clergy? The evidence reported is that paedophilia in the Catholic clergy is lower than that in the general population, so what is the prevalence in Hindu, Anglican, Jewish religious leaders? That's how the boot is put in. Stealthily. By omission, and like so many people you take the bait, hook, line and sinker. So do most journalists. So who is behind this, and why now? Do you remember that Catholic bishop who was rehabilitated a while back?
    What did he go on Swedish TV and say? Is this payback?

  • Comment number 11.

    5. At 1:20pm on 14 Sep 2010, Hawkeye_Pierce wrote:

    Does banking regulation not have the might and teeth of the law behind it? Or is it just window dressing?"

    "In October 1993, Schapiro gave a speech in Lugano, Switzerland, "The Derivatives Revolution and the World Financial System," concerning potential regulation of the unregulated derivatives market in which she cited "the benefits to financial innovation that may result from a more flexible regulatory paradigm," and stated that she was "not convinced that consolidated regulatory supervision of securities firms and their affiliates is necessary or appropriate at this time."



    One might as well ask if the SEC is the USA's FSA? But then, asking that sort of question these days is as surreal as asking if the Pope's a Catholic. Sometimes things can be shoved right in front of people's faces and they still can't accept it. That's bare-faced cheek and it'd efficacy counts on most people successfully being made to feel that it's bad to find fault. Libertarianism really does assert that there is nothing wrong with this. The markets will take care of fraud (often by making it lawful).

  • Comment number 12.

    "7. At 2:10pm on 14 Sep 2010, barriesingleton wrote:

    "Does schooling set out to mature, mature, mature? No - it goes in for Blairtant 'education, education, education', which equates to 'institutionalisation, institutionalisation, institutionalisation'. Only by so doing, can the curse of Westminster, Westminster Westminster be perpetuated.

    Teach BEING not DOING"

    True, but sadly, they don't teach that in our training colleges/universities as it's not environmentally sound and the alternative is much easier said than done, as you should be able to see even from this blog..

  • Comment number 13.

    What we have is a galactic special needs program for bankers who are addicted to Ponzi finance. Of course their particular 'need' is to do 'Gods work'.

    That's what makes them special and in need.

    How about we have a special report for a special topic of galactic needs.

  • Comment number 14.

    Oh and by the way gold just hit an all time high. Now what could that be telling us ?

  • Comment number 15.

    NO COLLUSION - JUST THE ODD BIT OF (HELPFUL) NEGLIGENCE

    But am I referring to 9/11 or the death of Billy Wright?

    Or the next one.

  • Comment number 16.

    "Janet Tavakoli" (Iranian husband)

    'thats my ex husbands name'

    Janet Tavakoli

  • Comment number 17.

    IN-YER-FACE DAVE DELIVERS RANK PAPERY

    I have just had my hackles raised by Dave - face right up the camera - telling me with his schoolmarm cadence, in no uncertain terms, that the Pope is as British as warm beer. Yeah right.

    Thanks Dave - I now have even more reason to have your Conservatives nailed for the 'liar flyer' and to see Nick go down with you.

    Dave clearly has Blair Sickness. He thinks he is a GREAT PERSUADER.

    WE HAVE GOT OURSELVES ANOTHER ONE.

  • Comment number 18.

    Nos 16 -

    Ref -

    at 24.45 mins

  • Comment number 19.

    "13. At 3:36pm on 14 Sep 2010, flicks2 wrote:
    What we have is a galactic special needs program for bankers who are addicted to Ponzi finance. Of course their particular 'need' is to do 'Gods work'."

    But, and this really does require some careful thought, and it's the sort of very careful thought which I keep encouraging jauntycyclist and others to try to practice: who would run such programmes? In other words, how, in the current culture, could that ever be done?

    That's a much more subtle question than it will seem upon first reading.

    As barriesingleton so often says, most people live, think and therefore write from within the lie. How could it be otherwise. Wittgenstein called this the tyranny of language, and a day does not go past when we are not fed stories by the media inducing us to fear or revile regulation...


    "14. At 3:38pm on 14 Sep 2010, flicks2 wrote:
    Oh and by the way gold just hit an all time high. Now what could that be telling us ?"

    That there's another bubble being made and a sucker's born every minute?
    Gold and silver are now just commodities like tin, lead, oil, wheat and pork bellies.

  • Comment number 20.

    "17. At 4:22pm on 14 Sep 2010, barriesingleton

    Barrie, The Pope is a head of state as well as the head of the Catholic Church. Some people can and do get rather aggressive over anything to do with child abuse, including charges of licensing paedophilia etc, so it is the responsibility of all responsible people to do all they can to reduce any risk of such behaviour. Don't you agree? Quite aside from this there are about 1 billion Catholics in the world, and they will be finding this recent, irrational hysteria highly offensive

  • Comment number 21.

    QUE? (#20)

    My post was about Cameron and the Conservatives. You should read more carefully and perceptively - don't you think?

  • Comment number 22.

    18. At 4:54pm on 14 Sep 2010, flicks2 wrote:

    Just think about this. Most of the people in powerful positions in this crisis had a background rather like Janet. Look at Fred The Shred. She spent a career in the Financial Services business. Why did she go into it? Out of philanthropy? She's a poacher turned want-to-be game keeper like Max.

    All political systems have money. The important thing to note which was missing from the Libertarian model is biological diversity and how that impacts upon choice and impulsive behaviour. People want stuff, but some want it immediately. There's a price to be paid for that, and it's called compound interest. If you can get people to take drugs and behave like kids, it is easier to indebt them, which means you can enslave them. The last thing you want is someone to come along and point out that lots of people can't cope with delay of gratification, so you spend lots of money on rosy ideas like equality and human/civil rights.

    Then you go fishing for borrowers offering credit cards etc.

    Now, are you prepared to give up your credit cards? If you can't afford a house, are you prepared to live in rented accommodation for the rest of your life because you don't have the rare skills in demand? This is why some countries LOOK rich and why socialist countries don't look rich..But which is more stable and which the more caring?

  • Comment number 23.

    HOLOCAUST OR HOLLOW RHETORIC?

    The French perceive a need to deport Roma and the Final solution is invoked.

    Blair saw fit to EXTERMINATE Johnnie Foreigner (but outside the EU) and all was quiet.

    If the French have committed a crime . . .

  • Comment number 24.

    My post was about Cameron and the Conservatives. You should read more carefully and perceptively - don't you think? "

    Ah, a question.

    My answer: Your post made an inductive inference about some imagined supernatural states of Mr Cameron based upon your misunderstanding of his verbal remarks about The Pope, did it not? Perhaps you are unaware of these irrational inferences that you are prone to make and hold true?

    I do indeed read carefully. My written behaviour is sometimes less careful than it should be alas. I hope you find this post both perceptive and accurate, maybe even helpful?. ;-).

  • Comment number 25.

    I can hear some noise made by a tortoise
    That has now decided to become an 'engine'
    While doing nothing but winging and winging,
    Finding faults in everyone around,
    Though is his own mind perfectly sound?

  • Comment number 26.



    Geithner and the galactic wideboys of all time meet to discuss "gods work" and their "special needs"

  • Comment number 27.




    Doing "Gods work" and "special needs" -

    "18. I’m sorry to say, but the gold price is in the hands of the banksters and Tim β€œthe terminator” Geithner, head of the Treasury. It’s not about the comex or the LBMA. The Govt, Treasury, and Central Bank all want gold higher in price, way higher. So, guess where the price of gold IS going?

    19. Correct. WAY HIGHER.

    20. The story of gold’s price in this bull market is not so much about supply or demand, although they have been factors up to this point. The main gold price story is, and always has been, about control of gold. The govt has legal power to control gold, and will not hesitate to exercise that control, via gold revaluation and perhaps money printing, if they believe such control is required. The biggest debtor is the US govt, and you can bet your bottom (paper money) dollar they want the dollar vastly lower against gold, so they can service existing debts, and retain the ability to issue more."

  • Comment number 28.

  • Comment number 29.

  • Comment number 30.

    The french kick out Romanians..Good! It heartening to know that at least one european country has a leader with back bone. The shrill response from some Lib Euro parliment hack was no surprise though. Its a pity the ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ reported this story slanted in its usual lefty-wefty fashion.

    Hurry up and get out of your bubble ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ.
    Well you did ask about "fingers on pulse" on your pop-up questionaire on here.

  • Comment number 31.

    23. At 7:12pm on 14 Sep 2010, barriesingleton wrote:

    "The French perceive a need to deport Roma and the Final solution is invoked."

    Ah, you appear to have a reading disability which I note quite common amongst your people. I recall there was something on the news about this behaviour today, and I posted a few comments on it to the effect that some people are just made this way. Research suggests that they hear or read material, but what then comes out when they try to repeat it is something quite different! Some of these people have also mistakenly learned to use the English word 'interpretation' to describe this error in their verbal behaviour. It's causing no end of trouble.

    For your benefit, here are some analyses from the ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ on this Romanian/Bulgarian illegal immigrant problem and their repatriation.

    /news/world-europe-11027288

  • Comment number 32.

    27. At 8:55pm on 14 Sep 2010, flicks2:

    Why not buy copper (it's bounced back too), or tin, or some other metal?

    As we're no longer on the Gold Standard, it's just another commodity, except that because a lot of people still don't fully understand that, some will mistakenly buy it out of familiarity and drive the price up through scarcity until big holders dump it and then lots of people will be left with big losses as in the 80s. All this thrives on pretending that it isn't a game to sucker people, hiding behind caveat emptor as I see it. Some of us can't be told though. We're all equally bright
    (suckers) these days as Thatcher, Reagan, Bush and Blair et al. outlawed inequality (stupidity) as politically inconvenient (incorrect).


  • Comment number 33.

    Great to see David Aaronovitch with Jeremy tonight, my favourite line being "if God existed, then Tottenham Hotspur would have won against
    Werder Bremen" :p Ha ha ha!

    Very interesting debate about the Blitz tonight too :o)

    As for the newspaper review about the Real IRA targeting UK Bankers

    I can't see a lot of public sympathy for bankers right now.......

  • Comment number 34.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 35.

    SO WHAT WAS DAVE UP TO THEN? (#17)

    Dave's piece to camera was just like a party election broadcast, on behalf of the Pope Party. What is the political advantage to Dave in that? Murdoch isn't Catholic, so who is Dave scared of? Are his big donors Catholic? I know he is the heir to Blair, but one can take things too far.

  • Comment number 36.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 37.

    Excellent Jeremy tonight with David Aaranovitch )my favourite line being if God existed, then Tottenham Hotspur would have won against Werder Bremen :p) and also Baroness Warnock :o)

    Also interesting debate with Beevor & the guy from Die Welt on the Blitz.



  • Comment number 38.

    SO WHAT WAS DAVE UP TO THEN? (#17)

    so who is Dave scared of?

    Lots of people thinking that he isn't a responsible, courteous statesman, and of some unstable person getting carried away with recent hysteria and thinking there will be celebrity status in trying to assassinate The Pope.

  • Comment number 39.

    25 are u mutton jeff u havent heard anything yet

  • Comment number 40.

    #39

    can't wait to hear more, tb01='2'

    so you think you're hiding your identity and are not guilty?

  • Comment number 41.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 42.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 43.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 44.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 45.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 46.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 47.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 48.

    I found the image used, in the background, of Pope Benedict 16th, during the newsnight debate on him, offensive and abusive. I and my family consider the ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ coverage and use of a picture of the Pope with his hand extended as if in a Nazi salute racist and implying linkage with Nazi youth. This is deeply insulting both to the Pope and all decent people. Also the use of a straw poll of 500 people, which the ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ are using and quoting from as though it were absolute and valid, is a gross distortion and misrepresentation of facts. There is an obvious and deliberate agenda to discredit, the Pope and offend people of all faiths, but in particular Catholics.

  • Comment number 49.

    When Jeremy did the quick review of papers at the end of Newsnight last night, he mentioned that there was something about badgers on the front of one of them. I assumed that it was of a sentimental nature but have just learned that it is to do, in fact, with culling of the pest animal:

    /news/science-environment-11303939

  • Comment number 50.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 51.

    GREAT BRITAIN WITH A HUMAN TOUCH,
    in line with my 'Ode to Queen Elizabeeth II', otherwise 'A Hearty Empire', dedicated to Paxo, which I sent to Her Majesty a few months ago.

    A wise and welcome initiative:

    /news/uk-politics-11307722

    mim

  • Comment number 52.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 53.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 54.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 55.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 56.

    Peter Schiff was on NN the other week -



    Bob Chapman -

  • Comment number 57.



    Arianna has gone to a new level in my view. She is taking action to educate and do something about the invidiousness that has been inflicted upon the working people of the US . She is not sitting back doing blab shows about car boots and flogging stuff in the attic. She is very switched on to peoples situations - knows how to engage them at their level and therefore educate them in a meaningful way.

  • Comment number 58.

    A collection of TUC leaders graced my screens this fine morning, all sharp suited and, to a man, glowing with orangeness. Is the weather there especially good? Or do they just enjoy the fruits of their pay and perks as any person can in more clement climes?

    Speaking of bonusses, the most favoured seemed to be Mr. Crowe, whose popularity escapes me as his answer to any question seems to be to react 'It's The Banks', no matter what, like a slightly battier version of Johnny from the Fast Show.

  • Comment number 59.

    Geithner and the galactic wideboys of all time meet to discuss "gods work" and their "special needs""

    Go and dig out that 1990 reference which Debtjuggler quoted from a while back. It covers subjects which he and others have long aired on this blog. The paper is on the web. Google "Rational Choice Theory: Necessary But Not Sufficient" as a pdf. Make sure you read it all the way through, and pay particular attention to the end. Bear in mind how the USA and EU population has changed over recent decades, all the sex equality talk too. Then think about how the Financial Service sector essentially farms consumers.

    It might would help (just as a heuristic) to think of oneself as a bit dim. It always helps one learn if one thinks oneself a bit dim as doing so makes one question if one really is analysing matters correctly. Most people don't do that, which I suggest really IS a bit dim.

    My advice - read carefully, and very very critically bearing population heterogeneity in mind, at all times as what seems familiar may not be all it seems.


  • Comment number 60.

    "58. At 09:00am on 15 Sep 2010, JunkkMale wrote:
    A collection of TUC leaders graced my screens this fine morning, all sharp suited and, to a man, glowing with orangeness."

    Entryism: A technique used by Trotskyists to subvert Stalinist (i.e public sector/Civil Service/state) organizations. The idea was to make such organizations look bad to its members and the general public. Many of those doing it need not have that agenda, they just need to serve that function for those helping them to get there. One has to ask, who benefits from such subversion? Who benefited in 1979? Anarchists usually tend to win in the end as their tactics count on entropy and the opposite requires effort/work. One therefore has to try to see past the obvious, and well past apparent intention. Focus on outcome, as all behaviour is controlled by outcome not intention.

  • Comment number 61.

    'duke'

    you asked somebody yesterday not to be mean to you
    methinks it's you, yourself, who's meaning yourself out

  • Comment number 62.

    I've just learned that this year's submissions to the National Poetry Competition are full of colours, particularly red and black, as well as dance references.

  • Comment number 63.

    The law of... variably tended.. consequences?



    Cuts... banks... black.. attack!!!!!

    One can see the appeal in some quarters.

    It will be educational to see who supports what.

  • Comment number 64.

    'duke'

    Do you sometimes 'act' on behalf of Paxo and 'the boy'? You do, don't you, when it's convenient, you think.

    IT'S DIRECT CONFRONTATION FROM NOW ON - TOO LATE FOR SILLY 'GAMES' - ALL OF YOU

    Hangers on - I'm off to my favourite patch of grass

  • Comment number 65.

    61 + 62 nn dont like you and me

    your on the grass im of 2 the pub have good day

  • Comment number 66.

    #65

    I shouldn't think they don't like me as such though they've probably have had you up to their ears.
    I don't really mind all that much if they decide, for whatever reason, to remove some of my posts,

    I shall make sure not to stop by the Anglesea Arms on my way to one of my favourite patches.

  • Comment number 67.

    clickety click 66

    I went 2 the Mucky Duck or was it the Black Swan

  • Comment number 68.

    Arranovitch on and I didn't explode...he is a rational human being after all and Jeremy looked OK with him as well...

  • Comment number 69.

    This is deeply insulting both to the Pope and all decent people. Also the use of a straw poll of 500 people, which the ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ are using and quoting from as though it were absolute and valid, is a gross distortion and misrepresentation of facts

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