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NEWSNIGHT ROUNDABOUT

Oh how the mind boggles. I suppose it will be a three-ring-circus, with swirling panels of extreme art to take the motorist's mind of the tedious business of driving safely? As, presumably, was the bizarre red line that wandered up - as well as down - behind last night's doctor-funding discussion, intended to distract from any chance iota of gravitas.

The Magic Roundabout was far more edifying.

The piece from Henessy (?) last night was really excellent as it provided independent but informed and intelligent analysis that really gave good pointers to what was going wrong ... and what was going right.

On the big society I think empowering people and encouraging them to take up decentralised power is generally a good thing.

But the problem will be, I would have thought, how it is overviewed to ensure problems are being dealt with without having a formal and informal bureaucracy fighting each other.

On the positive side nobody needs telling that local people can often have good ideas that get totally ignored so perhaps this is the start of a more "can do" Britain.

To be frank though I would doubt realistically we will be amazed in a few years time but it could be the start of a process that would see the foundations set for a very different long term Britain.

Expectations need to be managed in my view.

On the oil I can see why those Democratic senators would be suspicious about the al Megrahi release and I would not be surprised if the seekers of the smoke found the fire.

On the other hand I thought the Newsnight piece some months back showing how unlikely it was that the CIA found the intact circuit board after it was blown up at height was impressive and raised very serious questions about the whole case as the FBI in this case were possibly naive.

Diplomatically that would be a real dilemma and I wonder whether there should not have been UK attempts to investigate the smoke that they are suspicious about behind the scenes as, to me, the credibility of the US position is in doubt.

Then again al Megrahi was a convicted bomber and should not have been released if it was due to oil influence.

Mandelson reveals that Mr Blair once described Mr Brown, then chancellor, as "mad, bad, dangerous and beyond redemption".

Working class hero Andy Burnham: "These revelations really go to the heart of why I'm standing. We really need a clean break from this kind of politics."

But he was OK with supporting these characters whilst they were in power and the thought of a psychologically flawed Chancellor would not in any way contribute to an environment where the finance sector could run amok and nearly take down the global economy?

Is Mandelson not clearly showing that party interest outweighs national interest in the case of Labour and this attitude persists today as Croquet Prescott resists electoral reform as it means Labour candidates would have to fight on merit and not on the easier geographical concentrations of voters that guarantee seats to them?

If the ONS has identified the national debt is four trillion and not one as current estimates project and if the Independent suggests that the " debt primarily consists of the cost of public sector and state pensions, and of payments promised to private contractors under private finance initiatives" then is this a good time to evaluate PFI deals and how they were executed?

Given governments can borrow money more cheaply than the private sector and therefore had immediate savings as well as economy of scale negotiations and so on I was always sceptical about the scale of this credit card PFI spree.

Can a jury deliver a verdict now or is it still out?

DEJA VU

It struck me out of the blue - watching Nick, as Dave shone in his own light. I suddenly saw Brown slumped in Tony's shadow.

No ambition-driven man can stand much of that.

"Sweden leads the European Union on renewable energy, producing 44.4 percent of its energy from renewable sources but Malta, Luxembourg and the United Kingdom lag behind" the latter produces a shameful 2.2 percent.

So leaving aside the words without genuine actions from Labour even as a Lib Dem voter I would hope Chris Huhne will be looking for a way to invest in renewables and iedally in a way that will promote jobs.

Setting up a windmill making arm in the NE of England and/or South Wales may capitalize on steel and engineering skills and get things moving.

Setting up an electric car charging network on the motorways in preparation for what may be an inevitable shift to the mode of propulsion could put us ahead of the curve and reduce CO2 emissions.

I am all for private initiative and big societies but this is an issue where I would like to see the government steam roller through changes.

If the nuclear options are not going to be quick due to safety issues (Newsnight did an excellent piece on Finland I think it was some time back) then there is a gap and a looming carbon shortfall.

We need energy security and we need to stop talking about climate change and start getting ahead of the curve.

The English Defence League have not been making the headlines recently - perhaps because it is the same story each time of racial abuse, violence and injured police officers and the strong feeling that their crowds were hooligan puppets dancing to the tune of carefully hidden leaders.

They are not an extension of the BNP we are told but there are grounds for suspicions that it is simply a far right vehicle.

Perhaps the EDL decline is due to the fact that the recent internal spat within the BNP where Collett was arrested over alleged threats to kill Griffin has communicated itself into that unseen leadership.

Perhaps the masquerade that they are not a racist grouping can't be sustained despite the presence of a few individuals of race within their ranks.

NN SAID:

"And in the US four Democrat senators are calling for an investigation into BP's business interests in Libya. They want to know whether BP helped secure the early release of al-Megrahi"

Yeah and will they also ask did BP/Goldman Sachs/Bilderbergers put a Chicargo lawyer and community activist in the Whitehouse? That's a question I'd like to see aired on Newsnight.

I went to see the Terminator but he was too busy stripping the state of what little value it has left; the place is bankrupt. Never mind, I still had a good laugh, maybe next time eh. The often quoted 'if California was a country, it would be the 8th richest in the world' does not apply anymore. The state is busy buying up empty warehouses to convert into soup kitchens..I kid thee not.

Yo Gango, how's it going buddy...did you do anything interesting at the weekend?
Anyhow, whilst away, my 2nd world war German military memorabilia has gathered some dust so I'm gonna get the pledge out and do some polishing.

#26 ecolizzy wrote:
“HHhhmmmm does this /news/10611398 mean that all the veil wearing women will now move to Britain? They have every right to as they are european.�

It’s only fair liz, that your area ‘The Garden of Kent’ should grant them all their rights, as my already overcrowded Brighton will now be obliged to welcome vast numbers of non-EU citizens, such as those from the 38 African states that have laws against homosexuality, many of which are intolerant to the extent of capital punishment.

‘Africa’s Last Taboo’ on Channel4’s Dispatches last night vividly demonstrated the huge gulf in cultures; whereas it was the British that exported its anti-sodomy laws to the African continent and elsewhere, we have seen fit to repeal them in UK and encourage 'Pride' in this practice, but the programme showed the violent lynch mob syndrome that flourishes in several African nations, aided and abetted by Christian and Islamic religious leaders there.

‘Human Rights’ is already the claim that is being made for UK to offer asylum. Perhaps we should ask ‘Why Us?’ and have a little more concern about the negative effect on the human rights of our own culture of giving sanction to hordes that do not share our values, such as the sanctity of human life?

What is happening, if anything, to the Conservative’s manifesto promise of a more appropriate British Charter that would give us back some of our sovereignty?

Just a dim light flickered in Westminster yesterday under the 10-minute rule as a Conservative MP managed to get attention to his proposed law to repatriate foreign criminals. This issue has been under review for a very long time:



but is being held up (deliberately) by many countries, several of which are in the toothless ‘Commonwealth’ and which continue to receive considerable ‘ring-fenced’ aid funding from our taxpayers. Apart from the vast savings that repatriation of foreign prisoners (without the bribes) would yield, it would also be a start in demonstrating that the ConDems alliance really has its own citizens’ interests at heart, despite the Libdems manifesto intention to pay pensions to all settlers, irrespective of contribution.

hope we get some long shots of Moterway service stations, long angles of ballet dancers on staircases and gardens...very Steve Smith...very pleasing for a usually heavy NN

BIG SOCIETY? Is that what we all did naturally before BIG Brother got too......... err................ BIG? Look after our own.

So NN pick an inanimate object on which to practice. Suppose it's better than have have them experiment on our elderly, in dire need of support; the children about to start school holidays who must be entertained FoC 24/7; or the poorly educated or unemployed. No, that would be far too useful, and fraught with red tape.

I think that was what you saw on Mondays prog BS #2. An unending, endlessly wavering, pointless stream of red tape. There's a lot of it about.

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"the Big Society" = basic Libertarianism.

what is crucial is making sure that the type of Libertarianism used is SOCIAL Libertarianism, and not Randian Libertarianism.

naturally the Tories, as the vast majority have NEVER experienced poverty, or what a life is like in poverty, are biassed towards Randian style, anti-social-welfare idiocy. Idiocy both socially, and also economically.

they have never really grasped the idea that taxes can be used for GOOD, rather than just warfare and welfare-for-corporations. But then, many Tories do not believe in GOOD, only 'Dog Eat Dog', rottweilers and pit-bulls to the core. It came from their childhoods, i suspect. Poor dears.

#14

All of us, BYT? Surely not Big Brother, selfish and greedy that he is, desiring to control us, little chance that he has. It's all very meek and temporary for him.

Personally, I've experienced much more support and respect from the Tories rather than arty farty lefties, with some of them being quite wealthy anyway.

How many Labour MPs have sent their kids to private schools, hypocrites that they are, while the Tory PM is, I understand, looking for state, nothing to do with statism, schools for his own offpspring. Not that I have anything against private schools, Brightyangthing.

mim
(^_^)(^_^)(^_^)(^_^)

#14 one more thing

NN may think they've picked up an inanimate 'object' but they're not getting anything back from 'it'. Jeremy is, however. He deserves it, Brightyanthing, fine and intelligent English gentleman that he is****

mim

#14 BIG SOCIETY? Is that what we all did naturally before BIG Brother got too......... err................ BIG? Look after our own.

Ha,ha, that was all a very long time ago brighty! All anyone does these days is run away from their families and doss around the world, and then come back and tell everyone here they don't know anything, everywhere else is much better than Britain. BUT they all seem to rush back here to live! ; )

I don't think we'll ever go back to looking after our own, we now have to "get on our bike" to find work, leave the young the old and infirm behind, and live somewhere on our own, so each town and village becomes socialy isolated from each other. And that's not including the second, and holiday homes of the better off!

I think this is happening all over the world, look at India and China they all leave their villages to go to the bright lights and big cites, and this is called progress! We have a lot to learn, all that glisters is not gold.

#12 It’s only fair liz, that your area ‘The Garden of Kent’ should grant them all their rights That's very cheeky Indi! ; )

This /news/10607480 is the one that's exercising my mind at the moment Indi, I presume you read it.

What I find quite astonishing is Leeds are working on such old figures, from 2001 census, that's crazy, we have had massive immigration since then. I read this a while back... Office for National Statistics (ONS), legal immigrants made up 14.7 percent (7.5 million) of the population of England in 2004 So I can't see it will only be a fifth, (20%) of us that will be from an ethnic minority. Surely nearer a quarter or even a third by 2051.

#20: what percentage of the UK will be natural blondes? what percentage of the UK will have green eyes? What percentage of the UK will have curly hair?


who cares?

so why care about the shades of people's skin? English people can be black, yellow, or burned lobster-red - and every variant in-between. Personally, i just don't sit around, biting my nails at the thought of the rainbow colours any grandchildren will be surrounded by.

btw, it is thought by genetic-geographers (or whatever their title is), that there is less than 20% of Africans who do not have 'white' genes in their DNA. I'd rather have free movement of peoples, interbreeding and having children together peacefully, rather than wholesale warfare and ethnic cleansing.

hey, that's just me. Guess i'm a "hippy".

so if something goes wrong with the roundabout who do you sue? Does NN have roundabout maintenance insurance?

the big society is an admission that the govt are bereft of a society building plan. The believe the bias and prejudices of local good doers will achieve 'something'. Sort of like 'letting the market sort out the nations choices' the responsibility is transferred to the unelected and unaccountable.

This model has been adopted in some part of africa and the result is if the local church is running the schools anyone who wants something done has to petition the archbishop and not their local elected representative who becomes no better than a paid eunuch unable to facilitate anything. So power transfers from the elected representative to local good doers and their 'charity'.

a typical 'good society' farce is the local nature reserve. The birdwatchers staged a 'coup' and now run it soley for the benefit of birdwatchers. They have placed draconian signs everywhere for cyclists and dog walkers, they hate the fishermen and so will not cull the cormorants as they see fish as merely food for birds etc even though the fishermen pay to fish. They have weekend chainsaw types who lop of anything they can reach while others stack piles of rotting vegetation up against tree stems then wonder why they rot. Its a Dad's army farce.

Similarly if you have ever lived in a National Trust village you will know the insanity that prevails there. Such good doers are a menace to society. And nothing can be done about them.

Big Society = hundreds of Captain Mainwarings.

Jaunty #22


Almost spat my glass of milk over the keyboard. You have just perfectly described my current main client.

Nah, but seriously. Well that was but more to the point.......

Actually, don’t we already have the scenario you describe? A small (ever smaller) group of specialist need identifiers seeking to serve their own needs in the guise of good doing and charideee work. Problem largely is that the government (ie, we the tax payer) funds them all as it stands.

And the groups get narrower by the day and seldom have to clearly show their worth and real results or even established need. Life is, of course, intrinsically NOT FAIR but with all the clamour no one individual or minor support group with a ‘special’ need can be left out.

Hence organisations exist to provide physical challenge opportunities (and woe betide you fall foul of any number of ‘ist’ policies) for people who once had the flu, have a faint discolouration of one pupil, have a slight malformation of the left pinky, red hair, are under 5’6 inches tall and speak with a brummy accent. They’ll get government sponsorship and a lottery fund start up.

24

tax money is for the poor and needy not those with an ancient building fetish or who want to cuddle squirrels.

grief

is it the case if people see something on tv they think its a soap opera? leaving flowers for a murderer?

a few days ago i saw a fox had been run over and left on the verge. The next day the fox was still there and someone had left some flowers.

#21 English people can be black, yellow, or burned lobster-red - and every variant in-between. I'll admit the lobster red, but all the other colours can't be ethnically english, they can be British, but not english, unless you deny the right of the english to be an ethnicity?

So you want your culture taken away from you? I don't, I like our way of life and don't as a woman look forward to sharia law etc.

Anyway I'm not complaining about race really, I'm complaining about too many people living here, but then perhaps you live in some eutopia where you live in isolation, not cheek by jowl next to others.

And of course if you'd read any of JJs post you would realise we are all genetically different, what a boring world if we weren't. That's not to say one genetic group is better than another, just there are great differences between races. Or how otherwise do you explain an ethopian runner who can beat almost any other race, it's in their genes!

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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

#23 Brightyangthing

There is quite a bit of truth in what you're saying about the motivation behind some 'charity workers' but there are also those who help others out of real compassion, not pretending or simply to make themselves feel better. They just do it!!!!

mim

P.S. Quite a few of my recent posts have not been through. Hope you were able to guess what they were /all to you,anyway, I've had it up to my ears with most of the NN bloggers/.

mim

I was enjoying the item about Hastings and the volunteering but then you brought that awful Blears woman on - so I turned off.

I suspect I am not alone.

Harman and Blears - reach for the remote control. I am now watching a really bad film but it is preferable.

We set up a Development Trust to regenerate buildings similar to those in Hastings here in Whitley Bay. We have faced ambivalence from our local council for two years from lack of confidence in a start up to, at some points, reaction to the threat that we are doing what the LA should be doing themselves. Then the matter of funding any start-up is hugely difficult to attain, whether social funding or commercial banks who don't understand not for profit and at the end of the day volunteers are key but someone needs to organise those people, business plan, model financials or indeed buy up dead buildings, there is always going to some cost to this. Today after months of struggling our position is we can not continue because of all these blocks in the way - starting any business in recession is tough but a not for profit even more so. Big Society is a great theoretical ideal but there needs to be some major mindset changes delivered by central government to its local arms or it's is destined for failure. See our aims at www.whitleybaydevelopmenttrust.org

BLATANT DIFFERENCISM (#26)

I have my eye on you Lizzy. You will be claiming that men and women are different next. You can go too far!

One difference is stark - the difference between our politicians and ordinary people. Does Dave realise that - taking account of the established trend - the likelihood of his being anything other than severely dysfunctional, is close to zero?

Let us not forget that Dave's head, visibly, changed shape in the run-up to the election. I think he is going to blow - they all do.

THE UNCONSIDERED LIFE. (#25)

In any one society, some urges are proscribed. When being born, it is important to find oneself in an amenable culture.

Murderous anger is not uncommon in the infant whose needs are not met. Our society does nothing for the hurt and angry, just bungs them into school, where disadvantage is compounded.

There will be some who felt: "There, but for the Grace of God, go I" regarding those killings. That might give rise to a show of simplistic sympathy.

All this is far too nuanced for a politician such as Dave to understand. He just wraps himself in rectitude - not quite what Jesus called for?

#26 ecolizzy

"Anyway I'm not complaining about race really, I'm complaining about too many people living here, but then perhaps you live in some eutopia where you live in isolation, not cheek by jowl next to others"

We have been around this cycle many times but you aren't complaining about race really BUT in the past you have commented that you did not like to visit London due to the racial mix.

The suspicion has to be that you are complaining about race or you would also be talking about birth rates of "indigenous" people - as the BNP or others of that ilk may put it.

#33 barriesingleton

"There will be some who felt: "There, but for the Grace of God, go I" regarding those killings. That might give rise to a show of simplistic sympathy."

There but for the grace of God go I, say as a policeman, convinced he was about to die or there but for the grace of God go I, say as the murderer who did ask for help but who was quite capable of organized thought and action in his "war" against the police and later elements of the public.

But then your old jaded_jean, the National Socialist advocate, used to think that Hitler was a peace lover.

Yes of course - if you take the course then the world looks totally different.

#26 ecolizzy

"And of course if you'd read any of JJs post you would realise we are all genetically different, what a boring world if we weren't. That's not to say one genetic group is better than another, just there are great differences between races."

So you whine on about not being the BNP or the far right but here you endorse the views of a Holocaust "agnostic"/denier who ranted on about race "realism" and National Socialism and you also cite science that just isn't there.

There are no great differences between the races in IQ or in any other areas and as has been pointed out many times its quite obvious why.

We are all genetically related to a very few individuals who walked out of Africa and populated the world.

There simply hasn't been the evolutionary time nor need for major differences and most of the changes are climate adaptations.

Its quite easy to understand if you followed "The Incredible Human Journey" on the Â鶹ԼÅÄ or "Race and IQ" on Channel 4.

Recently the latter channel showed how people of race had taken part in many key historical events in our past and it shows that being British - or any of the components - is about values rather than race.

By the way do you adhere to JJ's views on Hitler?

Why people ask do I mention Hitler - because others did before me.

#26 ecolizzy

"Or how otherwise do you explain an ethopian runner who can beat almost any other race, it's in their genes!

Gosh evidence to support your hideous views!

Except of course that what you are talking about is rubbish as they are adaptations to their environment that do not significantly make them differently to other races - if I have understood Jones and others in the past.

Some races will have different skin colours due to UV and different facial and body shapes due to temperature differences and so on. Some may not adapt to climate differences and as a consequence suffer vitamin D generation differences or vulnerabilities to specific illnesses.

But we are all the same and when you think about it if there was all of this evidence then why wouldn't the BNP take the EHRC to court over the legal requirement for non-racial membership as they have all of this "evidence" to support them?

Do you think New Scientist will endorse your interpretation?

#11 kevseywevsey

"Yo Gango, how's it going buddy...did you do anything interesting at the weekend?
Anyhow, whilst away, my 2nd world war German military memorabilia has gathered some dust so I'm gonna get the pledge out and do some polishing."

No I had a quite weekend and was trying to follow up on one of your other profound missives where you suggested the the "Cleggster" - now the deputy PM - would come to nought whilst "the Griff" would be a king maker.

Now call me naive but I assumed you meant the odious Nick Griffin and the last time I heard he was going to stand down in a few years and was then going to pass on his winning formula to somebody else.

But as I understand it he got his ass kicked in the election and lost heavily so I am unsure what his expertise is.

Anyways it must be a relief that Anna Chapman can't come over here and seduce you for your orgone energy accumulator knowledge.

Did you get a strawberry and lime green mohican as I suggested for you?

Its all the rage at the moment for DJ's and suchlike.

#32 BLATANT DIFFERENCISM Sorry Barrie! ; ) I'm just about to point out some more!

So Gango you know more about genetics than the Anthony Nolan Trust...



I believe they are saying in this appeal, there are huge differences between races, and are appealing for more donors from the ethnic minorities in Britain. Many people die unfortunately because of the lack of ethnic donors. So how is it they know we are all ethinically diverse, and our genes and DNA don't match, but you are so much wiser and say that we are all the same!

I remember poor little Anthony, I don't suppose you have a clue who he is, and I also remember his brave mother fighting to save his life, so I do believe what this trust has to say.

Oh and no I haven't been to London recently, I might go to the opera shortly though. Oh you'll be pleased to know next year 2011, there will be a 50/50 mix of foreign and indigenous people in London.

Human Beings they are either Stupid or not so Stupid

Me I'm with Stupid

Very much enjoying the Golf, don't ask me why

QUESTION (#41)

Why?

turned off Blears and Harman...did you? I used to turn off Thatcher, fat lot of good it did....destroyed millions of lives for years ...so much for ignorance...

Barrie I think its got something 2 do with Balls