Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ

Good blog and agree with I share your thoughts on Haye.

Really looking forward to the fight

Hope Dave can come away with the belt

This blogs absolutely spot on. Far too many people moaning about Haye and his antics, but you are right. To a point Haye is using exactly the same pre fight techniques as Ali did to promote a fight.
Whilst I'm sure mind games are also a part of this, the fact is far more people around the world will be watching this fight as a result of Haye's publicity stunts.

Very good blog Ben agree with just about everything you said.

The fact that Haye is prepared (like Hatton) to really put it on the line and will travel anywhere and fight anyone; is what being a proper world champion is all about and the true measure of greatness.

No doubt he could have stayed in his home town and fought a succession of has-beens and never-weres for a portion of the world title. As he proved when he fought (and lost to) Carl Thompson; that's not his style. Instead he wants the top prize and will face anyone, anywhere to do it - for this he should be applauded and I hope that the whole country will get behind him.

If you actually read about Valuev he is a sensitive decent man who has had to put up with this cruel "freak" taunts all his life. Haye is just another stupid boxer in comparison who should know better. Let's hope he gets to eat his words.

i dont think you can compare haye to ali, and im not talking about boxing ability.

ali had a persona that everyone warmed to, admittedly he sometimes took things too far, but haye comes across as a bully and a a bit of an idiot. its hard to like someone who's witty put downs consist of calling someone a 'circus freak'.

but then again i am writing about this so job done for him i guess.

"If you actually read about Valuev he is a sensitive decent man who has had to put up with this cruel "freak" taunts all his life. Haye is just another stupid boxer in comparison who should know better. Let's hope he gets to eat his words"
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I'm not sure any of the previous jibes at Valuev before this fight gave him a considerably larger fight purse. Don't think he'll have too many complaints.

This is not by any means a "super fight" which is why it's needed hyping, Klitschko brothers would be but as it stands you have 2 boxers in Hayes and Valuev trying to prove themselves worthy of a big name and presumably some big money fights in the US.How much notice is the States taking ? not much if the fight is expected to be around 9.30-10 our time im guessing so its hardly a super fight more a European fight.Personally as the hype goes I agree with Sir Henry and for the first time I can remember won't be upset if a Brit gets beaten.

Well said Alexjknight. I'm sure anyone who's willing to step in the ring and risk getting a pounding wants to at least make as much money as he can from it. The fact is the hype builds up interest and generates more money. Dirs has it spot on when he says look at Hatton and Calzaghe. One fought on terrestrial tele a hell of a lot and one didn't at all. Who had the biggest fights and the most acclaim? Hatton by far. Its the same when people talk about Ali. Was he the biggest star? Absolutely. But was he actually the best boxer? Well that's a lot more debatable.

OK I see people's point that the Klitschko's and Valuev come across nicely and respectful. That's good but that's not what generates interest in a fight. People want to think the 2 guys are really going to go at it when they get in the ring and really don't like each other. That's what makes people want to watch and that's all Haye's doing. If he saw this guy in the street or met him outside of he boxing world he wouldn't be saying all these things. But being outlandish and outspoken makes headlines and gets people talking about a fight and that brings in the money.

Coming out with some of the things Haye has in the build up isn't what you want people to be like all the time but good God its what the heavyweight division needs! Excitement, anticipation, drama, that's what build ups to big fights should be like and we haven't had that in the heavyweight division since Lewis.

Whilst I appreciate the point that's being made, that hype and hyperbole have been a part of the fight game for a long time, I think it's rather flattering to Haye to put his, frankly, abusive remarks in the same context as Ali's antics. Haye has been pretty abuisive to both the Klitschko brothers and Valuev out of nowhere - Ali's baiting of Frasier, Terrel and Bonavera was in the context of sweeping social change across a huge and important country. I'm sure Sir Henry said that Haye's antics have no class - that's a pretty good summation from a man who has tons of it.

"...him and his camp could go round Liston's house with a load of pressmen and go "bear-baiting" on Liston's doorstep. Read Angelo Dundee's book, he tells you all about it."

My internet died just as I was making this exact point! It's amazing how revisionist the history on Ali often is. It is also no real surprise that the heavyweight division enjoyed some of it's greatest publicity during these stunts. Great article by the way. I would be prepared to wager my own money, that at the end of the fight, Haye and Valuev will have nothing but respect for each other. Respect, and money.

Ooh Ben, you're treading on dodgy ground with those Calzaghe comments (for the record, I agree with you about him) but I know many fan-boys of his that wont like being told the truth like that - I know because they spend literally all their spare time doing Carl Froch down, whilst completely ignoring the fact that their man was nothing special.

Great blog, hit the nail on the head about Haye. I love a cocky fighter, all the greatest have self belief - Ali, Sugar Ray, Mayweather, etc.

You're right about Calzaghe too, I preferred him to Hatton purely on his boxing skill (and his nationality :P), but I'd rather have a pint with Hatton, what a ledgend!

Agree with this stance on the revisionism about Ali in later years. I am an Ali fan (I was in my home county of Clare, to see him retrace his Irish roots two months ago) but was taken aback in recent years when reading of his treatment of Joe Frazier, whose whole family suffered for the vilification Ali dealt him despite Frazier's support during his Vietnam suspension. Haye's comments/antics are mild in comparison.

It's very easy to insult back David Haye,

I'm wondering about his Londener roots...Was real Boxing legacy born in UK? Wasn't born in England the rules of Noble Art of Boxing? David talking is just kitsch&chip, we know he will loose for the second time at post press conference, here in Nurenmberg as usual that's the 2nd winning of the Gentleman from Saint Petersbourg, the nice, kind, sweet, smart, big heart sportman. The Fighter, Mr. Nikolai Valuev. By the way Mr. Ali was on the ring side, to enjoy is 1st WBA belt 2005 vs John Ruiz! Wearing a black suite & papillon, Layla Ali, undercard ...won... ciao -ciao, gg

I'm not a huge boxing fan, I appreciate the sport and the art of it but as Haye has said, barring Manny Pacquiao and Floyd Mayweather, there isn't any boxers, and more specifically British and Heavyweight boxers who will get me to watch it. More specifically I think that Danny Williams and Audley Harrison fight almost killed any hope of having a British Heavyweight champion as it just turned so many people off the sport.

Finally a British boxer has decided that enough is enough, he talks the talk like a champion now he has to prove he can back it up, but instead of hiding in the town halls around the country, he travels to Germany to fight for a proper championship. Even if you think that he has over stepped the mark with the chat, you have to take your hat off to him just for having the fortitude to go out of his comfort zone (which unfortunately Calzaghe never really did).

When on TV he has the personality and persona of someone you could sit down and have a pint with, and fingers crossed he'll be getting the first drink in with a rather large belt over his shoulder

(Ali in Ennis) It was absolutely surreal to see him (in the far distance) in my home town. To discover this world icon sportsman who transcended so many boundaries to reach so many people had his origins two roads over. One of my best mates is his 4th cousin (his mother and Ali's great grandfather shared the same surname). I still can't quite take it in. But it might help explain why no matter what fault or error I might discover from Ali's past (I mean, he got so militant at one stage he spoke to a Klan rallys!) it may sadden me, but equally it deepens my sense of loyalty. Ali is in some other category entirely, he's family.

This talk of revisionism is so very true, and it rings across all walks of sport. Many sporting legends were guilty of beings absolute a$$ holes at times, Ali included. But it's often a key ingredient of being a successful sportsman; it's what makes them tick; drives them to believe they're the best, and thus be the best. I don't think Valuev has that streak. Haye, on the other hand...! Whether he has the tools to go with it, we're yet to see. But if he floors the Beast from the East, then goes on to stand toe to toe with the Klitschko brothers, I reckon 'Enry might be joining the revisionist brigade in 10 years' time (if he's still around, of course!).

good article Ben, no arguments here.

I really want Haye to pull this one off but i really feel that Valuev will put on a good enough display to get a UD out of this, he's no fool and is sure to be very well prepared for Haye's KO fighting style. I think Valuev will surprise a lot of people with this bout and possibly score a very late KO. I also think that Haye's power won't have much effect which will dishearten David early on.

Hope I'm wrong of course but I can't see this going any other way judging on seeing both of the careers and previous fights. Valuev although is not granite chin he is certainly a lot more mentally tough than Maccarinelli. David should not go in there looking for 1 big punch it'll never happen, and he'll be lucky to get in and out as easy as he think

looking forward to it though

cheers

Great article Ben, I enjoy reading your articles, and believe that u have really hit the nail with the hammer on this one

David Haye is brash, he has a mouth, but he knows how to use it to get people to watch him fight. Although many people think that David Haye has gone over the top with his hype, and has gone beyond boundries previously, my personal opinion is that he admits that he is in this business for entertainment, and boxing rivalries makes for great entertainment. Also, David is an exceptional boxer, his record proves that, and especially his destruction of Enzo Macarinelli a couple of years back proves that he can beat the best. I am very much routing for my fellow Brit in this fight, and hope that he brings the WBA belt back to london.

Will be watching on saturday, COME ON DAVID!

Ben...You are absolutely right...

The heavyweight division is dying a slow and painful death. We need something to shake it up. Haye might be a motormouth, but no more of a motormouth than Ali in his prime, nor Tyson even with some of the things he said about opponents. I remember what Tyson said about Lennox Lewis' children...he admitted soon after that he did that to sell the fight and that he and Lennox were real good friends...It's been going on forever, fights need to be sold. Verbal jibes (in the 60's and even today) are exactly that...just jibes. It's not tiddlywinks afterall.

Love him or Loathe him, Haye is a breath of fresh air for the heavyweight decision...A quick puncher who is trying to plaster over a generation of awful fighters who paw and grapple their way to victories. This is boxing NOT wrestling.

When I was younger, although I enjoyed watching Hagler-Hearns, Chavez-De La Hoya, It was Tyson that I was glued to the set for. The sight of a young, hungry, smaller, fast heavyweight was a sight to behold, and with knockouts on bigger guys, it was breathtaking.

We must remain loyal to the sport, we need Boxing to go out to the masses, to keep it's identity and to be what we know it is...but it starts with excitement, entertainment and drama...Not with grappling points victories.

Here's to David Haye igniting the heavyweight division on Saturday.

Ben

I agree with your general summation. In general I personally do not have a huge problem with pre fight antics and hype. Partly, because if done well it can genuinly create a better atmosphere and tension for the fight and partly because if it works, the boxer at the receiving end of the insults is likely to profit from increased interest (and probably support aswell).

The comparison to Ali is fair one although Ali benefits with hindsight by being able to both alk the talk and walk the walk. However there are a couple of other points to consider. You mention Hatton as guy who understood the business side of boxing which is true but Hatton never relied on insults to sell fights. In general I think using the brash and insulting persona will divide the crowd, It was the same with Hamed. Invariably many of his own countrymen loathed him. Haye is trying to sell fight but in my view hes mistaken if he thinks he can let the insults fly and still try and take the role of the "good guy". The likes of Mayweather are more than comfortable with the pantomine routine but always play the villain. Haye on the other hand seems to feel that becaue he is the small gy taking on the big monster that everyone will be behind him regardless of how he behaves. Id guess most Brits anyway ae willing to get behind him but as the likes of Cooper imply, he will also alienate people. Deep down does he realise this or does he care as long as it makes it financially worthwhile? who knows? But the British public have traditionally preffered to get behind the more humble and down to earth heart on sleeve fighter like the Benns, Hattons and Brunos so in that regard I dont think Hayes tactic was his only option.

The proof of the pudding will be on Saturday night though in the ring and when the fight is over and thats generally when you get the real measure of the fighter and the man when the final bell has rung and the insults are in the past. Id expect HAye, win lose or draw to give Valuev respect (barring a total robbery perhaps).

Really good blog Ben - keep up the good work. Couldn't agree more with what all your points from Haye & Ali to Hatton & Calzaghe.

I'm a big fan of the way David Haye carries himself. I hope he has the talent to back it up as he'll be a massive star (both sides of the Atlantic) if he does.

The Jean-Marc Mormeck fight in Paris is one of my favourite boxing memories and i'm backing him to produce something similar on Saturday.

I'm with you on the Hatton - Calzaghe comparisons too. Joe had far more talent but Ricky went after the best of the best and, whilst he may have come up short at the top level, you have to respect him for trying.

The big surprise is how you've got a way with saying something slightly negative about 'stay at home Joe'. You'd normally have been slated by now by doznes of die-hards who think the sun shines out of his....

Manos_de_Piedra - Hear what you're saying but if Haye would've played the down to earth, understated nice guy then he wouldn't have grabbed nearly as many headlines and we might not be talking about him right now.

The other guys you've mentioned like Bruno and Benn fought in a golden boxing era where they were back page news regardless of their pre fight actions. That's not the case with Haye - he has to battle for column inches and keeping a low profile isn't going to command the attention that the heavyweight division so badly needs.

Its not neccessarily a low profile I think he needs to keep. Ive no problem with him selling tickets but I think a fight like this will generate headlines regardless in Britain. I dont think the insults were particularly neccessary. Once the fight was going to be shown on ppv then Haye was garaunteed to get coverage. Guys like Hatton were ultra successful in being the down to earth guy that could have been your neighbour and it wasnt that stretched of an act to be fair. Haye can expect the majority of the British to get behind him on a nationality basis but I think he may overestimate the support he has elsewhere - especially America. Hes kind of gone for the crusader approach who is aiming to bring back explosiveness to the HW scene but for me I think that would have been sufficient and the insults not paticular needed - especailly when hes essentially trying to play the hero. Lets face it Valuev doesnt need much help playing the monster so for Haye to be firing insults in my view hasnt really been that effective or neccessary and has definately lost him a measure of support. Calling Valuev slow, plodding and boring isnt really too bad but when the insults get personal it kind of pushes Haye into the villain category which in my view he never needed to be. Letting Valuev be the unstoppale monster and Haye the hero would have been jst as good in my view and would not have risked alienating certain fans.

Ben, cheers for responding directly - I'm not sure I could say that Ali's baiting of Frazier showed any class, but I definitely think it's rooted in the civil rights movements of the sixties and seventies, where Ali was an advocate and member of a pretty extreme black seperatist movement and Frazier very mainstream and conservative in comparison. It doesn't excuse what Ali said, but I think it explains why he said it. And whilst Ali DID call Liston a big ugly bear, I wouldn't really put that in the same category as wearing a t-shirt depicting himself holding Liston's severed head.

As a casual sports fan and being British I quite like Calzaghe. Very modest and let the gloves do the talking.

But yes you have be a showman to draw the punters in.

It can get lonely once you're in the ring so you have to have that arrogance to get yourself and the show fired up.

I've got far greater respect for Floyd Mayweather now. He loves playing the bad guy and deep down he's really a pussy cat.

Trash talk serves two purposes; firstly to get the crown involved and want to see two people battling for their honour and secondly to get the fighter psyched up for the fight. If you don't know someone or even if you're friends with them it may be difficult to get in the mindset to want to knock them out. Trash talk just demonises your opponent to give you a psychological goal for your task.

The point is that David Haye isn't particularly sophisticated at it, I'm sure he could be a lot more scathing but when you're on a newspaper holding up a gargoyle mask speaks a lot more than a 3 paragraphed diatribe. Valuev's victim stance is not doing anything for the fight promotion, and frankly if you're tired of being labelled a circus freak then why put yourself in the public eye?

True boxing fans will watch the fight regardless, the money comes from the general public who will watch fighters because they love them or they want to see them get knocked out. That's why Eubank drew such a large wallet, most people wanted to see him get his comeuppance.

Boxing is an incredibly tough SPORT. However professional Boxing is also ENTERTAINMENT, and as such it needs publicity and it needs people to have a cause to watch it.

Great blog Ben, totally agree with what you're saying, and IMO Cooper's living in lala land.

crowD not crowN

Everyone is talking how Haye is trying to sell tickets and build up the match but i've not seen anywhere that it might be a tatic to win the match.

Valuev is a big heavy guy, strong but very slow and would easily tire if he had to work hard for many rounds. I guess Haye tatic is the one used in Rocky 3 and similar to the rumble in the jungle (hope i got that right) where he is hopping to make Valuev mad. If Haye can withstand the heavy punches and get Valuev tired, he will have a fantastic chance

He's certainly big, and apparently slow, however he has the ability to go the distance.

His last 5 fights have gone 12 rounds, and he's fought 101 rounds in his last 10 bouts.

Fact is, it's a little disingenuous to compare Haye with Ali. Don't get me started on the boxing, that's a no-brainer. But, when you compare what Haye has to do to scare up an audience for his fight, what's he supposed to do?
He's fighting in a society where boxing has been slaughtered for its barbarism. He's on one channel among hundreds, unlike in Ali's day, where if his fight was shown, it was on one of two or three channels.
His t-shirts? Depicting the severed heads of the Klitschko brothers? Look at any number of "video games" in any high street retailer and you'll see far worse.
It's boxing, FFS.
For me, Haye has the credentials to be a great heavyweight champion. Buy, thus far, only outside the ring. If he can manage to put the Beast on his back, then I might be a little more confident about his fighting chances.

Boxing needs more like Haye, his antics will mean more attend and pay the money to Sky to see the fight.

Win it for Britain!

agree about the Ali comments, I was shocked when watching the documentary that was recently on Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ4 about the Ali v Frazier bouts, to hear about the actions of Ali, which were far worse than anyhting Haye has been saying. the documentary totally changed my view of Ali, and I now think he was a great boxer, but was better at playing the press.

Anyway back to the fight, Valuev to win by KO

very accurate blog the heavyweight division is dead this is the first time since lennox lewis retired i am going to watch a heavyweight match on pay per view and its not because of what haye has been saying its because he draws fans with him people to the fight naturally,
this is what the heavyweight division is missing the spice to the match you just have to watch it and this is what haye was refering to when he mentioned calzaghe as thats what he did he kept a low profile but exploded and latter stages of his career thats what calzaghe meant when he said he could have done better something what hatton did throught his career. haye will beat valuev tommorow night and will unify the division.

37. At 09:08am on 06 Nov 2009, Lucky_786 wrote:
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The chances are you are watching this fight because it involves a fellow countryman who has a good shot at winning. I dont think this equates to the division being dead.

The focus has shifted away from Britain and America simply because they havent been able to produce top heavies in recent years. However boxing is bigger than ever in Germany and Eastern Europe. The reason the division seems "dead" is because people just arent as interested when its not involving "Western" fighters.

Top blog Ben. Your point is very well made. Haye is a breath of fresh air. He speaks his mind and isn't afraid to ruffle a few feathers.
I respect the Klitchko brothers but let's face it: they are as dull as dishwater. It would be great if Haye could break the stranglehold they have on the heavyweight division. He obviously needs to be beat Valuev first but if a 46 year-old can beat him I'm sure Haye can too.
How do you actually see the fight going Ben? I would fancy Haye on points but not by a big margin.

Generally agree with your blog, Ben, and a lot of the comments posted.

For the first time I can remember in a LONG while, the Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ1 6pm news had a feature on boxing (about Haye-Valuev), last night, - and in it's main section rather than just the sports bit at the end - so Haye must be doing something right with his publicity in the build up!

It'd be nice if all boxing build ups were like Pacquiao-Hatton, where the fighters were respectful and polite - but I assume that if Haye had been acting as quiet as Valuev in the build up to this fight, then there wouldn't be anywhere near as much interest in the fight.

As for the fight itself - based on Valuev-Chagaev and Valuev-Holyfield, I'll go for Haye boxing smartly in-and-out (!) to win on points.

Great blog Ben, and I see contributing to all the hype you have mentioned! The fact so many people have commentated on this article shows how big this fight has become. Usualy 606 only has a handful of people commentating on boxing issues.

I'm realy looking forward to the fight, hoping Haye will be too quick for the giant.

I think many people, and your blog, miss a subtle point.

Sure....Haye has done 'a job' at promoting the fight, however, he could have done just as good a job if he had simply toned down the disrespectful comments.

Don't kid yourself.......Haye doesn't liven up the heavyweight division by wearing t-shirts with beheaded Klitschko's images. Haye doesn't liven up the heavyweight division by throwing childish comments at Valuev regarding his personal hygiene or genetic appearance. All these actions only bring boxing into disrepute and, shamefully, let down the image of Great Britain. It's as simple as that - and, win or lose, I am embarrassed that he represents us.

He could still play the big man, by spouting the usual hard-man talk. He doesn't have to be Valuev's friend - but a professional fighter, boxing or otherwise, needs to demonstrate dignity. Don't kid yourself that this is just an outdated view of an old man wearing rose-tinted spectacles ..... there are plenty of fighters out there who haven't over-stepped the mark compared to Haye, Ali, Paret or Bonvena (referred to in your blog) - don't fool yourself that, just because they were top-end fighters, their attitude and character was right for boxing or for the people / nation they represented.

Haye should remember that, although he'll have a lot of jack-the-lads full of egotistical bravado patting him on the back for his disrespectful comments, there are 100 times more people who feel shame that he represents Great Britain.

I won't feel any sense of national pride if Haye wins.

I have to disagree with #38. I think the reason the division's dead is because the leading protagonists are boring as hell! If they can then the Klitschko's will jab for 12 rounds and do nothing else. I do understand where they're coming from, why take a risk when you can win that way? But a little more showmanship would make them and their fights so much more interesting and would give them a lot more credit.

And outside the ring its the same. They come across as nice guys which is a great thing from a humanitarian point of view. But it doesn't get people interested in watching their fights sadly. People like watching a good guy vs a bad guy, or 2 fighters who act like they really want to tear each other apart when they get in the ring. It gets people interested because they don't know what's going to happen when these 2 guys finally get together.

Great points on the Ali stuff as well Ben. As you say definitely rose-tinted specs from Mr Cooper. I can remember reading about the torture that Ali handed out to Ernie Terrell because he kept calling him Clay. Refused to finish the job and just kept beating him and shouting at him to call him by his proper name. Compared to that Haye's antics have been small-fry, but at least he's trying something to build up the excitement levels.

43. At 10:16am on 06 Nov 2009, sublimesuperspur wrote:
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The thing is though people are interested in watching them fight in their own part of the world. They dont have massive crossover appeal but thats nationality based.

For instance I found Lennox Lewis to be a relatively boring fighter with a jab based style aswell.

The Klitschko promotions are well run in general and I would agree that the adopt a more cautious approach (Wlad more so) but they still both have huge KO ratios and have far more support in their area than Haye does in Britain. They dont need to start insulting guys to sell fights. Even if they did I dont think British or American fans would like them any more for it. They would just be labeled as disrespectful rather than boring.

I think people are just too unwilling to accept the part nationality plays in these events. Hatton was immensely popular but generally respectful of opposition and humble overall. If the Klitshkos or Valuev were from Britain theres no doubt they would be hugely popular and massive marketing wise irrelevant of their boxing style. You only need to see the hype that guys like Tyson Fury get to realize this.

The thing about Hatton was that he had Charisma in the bucket loads, everything he did he seemed to do with a smile on his face and most importantly with honesty, which gave him a jack the lad image and something that the everyday man could connect to, this is the same as the image Paquiaco has for his local people. But the real person who makes me sit up and watch is Mayweather, who just oozes charisma. He gives it all the trash talking you want, but if you see an interview with him after a fight he's a modest person.

To put the bums on the seats you have to the showbiz persona, you have to be larger than life, own the stage that you are performing on and believe you are the best (even if its all an act) rather like a frontman of a rock band, Freddie Mercury, Mick Jagger, Axl Rose and Alice Copper all put on a show even if the songs aren't to your tasting.

Haye is just trying to do this, lets not knock the lad down for trying.

No. 44. I do disagree. Lennox wasn't solely on jabs. How then did he knock out giants like 6ft 8 Grant, force 6ft 7 Akinwade to hold, and knock out people like Golata in 2? Yes, he boxed behind the jab but there were combinations after a stiff jab or two. The Kilts can jab all night even when their opponent looks completely out of it. They hardly throw combinations.They don't have the finishing instinct. Most of these Eastern Europeans are boring. It's got nothing to do with nationality. If so why was Golata a draw? Cos you know he brought chaos and mayhem to the ring. Ask Bowe, but Golata is Polish. Last time I checked, Poland was in Eastern Europe.

If you are exciting, people will want to watch you no matter where you come from. Tyson will be watched anywhere. Mayweather, Hagler, Sugar Ray etc. Just llok at these current HWs. They are like mister blobby at best. Just go to the boxing page on Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ and you will see the physique of Bruno and Lewis, and then on another article there is Areola. He is absolutely fat and wobbly. It's not the same.Those with the proper athletic look at the Klits and Haye and the Klits could bore you to death hence Haye's appeal.

Though I like hay and nothing wrong with his trash talk, I think he went a bit too far with the Klit heads on his T shirt. That to me was uncalled for. He could have easily worn a T shirt with them down on the canvas and kissing his feet. But the heads? That disappointed me. But apart from that, nothing wrong with selling up a fight. There are lack of characters in the HW these days so Haye has to do the "job" of two fighters. Oh, how I miss the days of Eubank and Benn. If only one could turn back the hands of time...

As a British boxing fan i hope Haye wins as it will be great to have a brit heavyweight champ. Also - i think Haye would atleast try and get a fight on with one of the Klitschkos - which would effectively unify/go someway towards the division.

I don't think Valuev is a great champion, however i think he is possibly a worthy champion in a very non-great era for heavyweight boxing. so much is made of his size - but that is not enough on its own - their are plenty of "big" people in the world - but none of the others hold a heavyweight title.... he deserves more credit than he gets as a boxer - very similar to Wladimir Klitschko - he is very basic and probably boring... but effective.

I think the world rankings are probably correct and Haye and Valuev are possibly the 3rd and 4th best heavyweights out there at the moment... and either could win tomorrow night.

Haye is also not that great. whilst people will refer to Holyfield as the ultimate example of a cruiserweight making a go of it at heavyweight - Haye is very different - he was knowcked out by a 40 year old Carl Thompson at Cruiserweight - and this must raise questions about his chin... and whilst he can clearly punch (ko record) that is only half the sport.

I hope Haye wins, Haye can win, but he could easily also become the sports next forgotten man.....

Ali was hated by a lot of the American public before Vietnam ever became an issue. People wanted the loud mouth put in his place much the same as some people wanted to see the arrogant Naz or Eubank getting knocked around the ring. Ali modelled his trash talkin style on the wrestler Goergous George who used controversial antics to draw a crowd, the crowd turned up to see George beaten up. Ali looked at George's methods and thought it would be a good way to get attention. Neither Ali or George were liked for this and Haye is certainly setting hiself up as a similar bad boy.

Making a comparison between Haye's and Ali's trash talking is like comparing their ability in the ring, Ali is in a different league in every aspect. Remember when Ali spoke the world listened, he wasn't just talking to some journalists in a press conference.

I thought Haye's chat was better in the run up to the postponed Wlad fight, I don't think he is as convincing this time. Not based on any analyse but only on a gut feeling I feel this fight will be very dull with very little consistant action. It remains to be seen if Haye can box as well as Holyfield. Haye is young than Evander but I think Haye looks very heavy and a bit bloated in some of the recent footage. It's not much good having extra bulk if you have to haul in around the ring.

I don't really care enough about this fight to be bothered about who wins it. If Ben Dir's is correct and this is the most heavily anticipated HW fight since Lennox hung up his gloves boxing really is in a worst state than I thought. Roll on Cotto v Pacquiao, Dawson v Johnson, Kessler v Ward etc, etc, etc..................................

46. At 1:28pm on 06 Nov 2009, U14175829 wrote:
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Never said Lewis was solely jabs but in my opinion he was primarily jabs and not very exciting to watch.

Golota was a draw because he was actually reasonably talented (should have beat Bowe anyway) and was around when Americans ruled the division. The Klitschkos suffer because there is no one remotely as good as them around that can bring the American crowds in which is the fundemental boxing audience. The reason for the lack of interest is because there are no U.S based challengers fit to challenge the Eastern dominance, not because the Klitschkos are so boring. This purely nationality based. If the Klitschkos were American there would be alot of interest in the division. Yes they can be guilty of jabbing their opponents into submission rather than looking for a one punch coup de grace but I firmly believe believe if they were US there wouldnt be half the complaints.

And Mayweather exciting?, come on.... Hes a class boxer but watching him fail to finish off the outmatched Marquez well outside his weight class was every bit as tedious as Wlad Klitschko jabbing his opponent into submission.

I wouldn't say I want Hayes to lose just that it wouldn't upset me if he did , I don't mind fighters being arrogant and claiming they are the best ever etc Naz ,Khan spring to mind and say how poor your opponent is compared to you but to make personal attacks in the manner he has was just unnecessary there are better ways to hype a fight up.

No.50. Yeah, if the Klits were Yanks, there will be a little more excitement, but really not much. Don't forget there were one or two of them around recently, but they were in poor shape like butterbean and that's what puts people off.
To say Lewis wasn't exciting to watch is weird. Yeah, he wasn't all action but when he had to fight he did. Did you watch the Holyfield fights and also Ray Mercer, and Shannon Briggs? Surely the destructions of Ruddock, Golata, Grant, Morrisson, and Botha were exciting as well as the previous fights mentioned.
So Golata was a talent you say. That explains it all, doesn't it? He came to fight to win, not to make sure he doesn't lose like the Klits do. There is nothing wrong with a game plan, but you don't have to throw a jab all night long when you are far bigger, and even better than your hapless opponent. Look at the way Klit disposed of Gomez and Peters. They should have gone long ago but he had to stick out jab after jab when these guys had given up.
The senoir Klit fights alot in the U S and was based there for a while so they could have taken to him but his style is different.
As for Mayweather and his recent fight, the difference is he was throwing combos and also wanted to show he was back so he let the fight run a bit and he couldn't knock out the guy later on so it went the distance. That's not the same as someone who seems too scared to throw a combo at a hapless opponent. Some boxers haven't got a big punch, but they put in combos, left right, upper cut, hooks etc and may not knock out their opponent. But the Klits, it's all JAB, JAB, 3 secs, then JAB JAB. That's what makes then boring.
If you say there's no one remotely as good as the Klits so they are suffering, why don't they go out and blow the rest out of the way instead of making heavy weather of it.

52. At 3:46pm on 06 Nov 2009, U14175829 wrote:
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I dont think your doing the Klitschkos any justice here. Both have very high KO ratios. Both have simply adopted styles that are extremely tough to beat. Technically they are extremelly good. Their jabs are absolutely top notch and this is one of the cornerstones of boxing. They nearly always get rid of their man in the end so its unfair to cut Mayweather slack for "putting on a show" against Marquez and letting him go the distannce. I would agree that Mayweather clearly has a better arsenal of punches but his style is also designed as "not to lose". Maytweather doesnt come to fight by any stretch.

Vitali in my view is happy to trade blows but is good enough that he doesnt have to. Wlad fights the way he does to protect a suspect chin and isnt comfortable style wise opening up. I cant really knock them for this approach as why risk getting tagged when you have a fight won? Generally the Klitschkos like to wait until rounds 9-12 when their opponent is basically finished before the start to open up and really end their night. However most opponents know this now and after 7/8 rounds of having 0 success and eating stiff jabs they decide to quit rather than face the inneviteable. Thats just smart boxing. Some fighters like Mayweather, Whitaker and Hopkins are lauded for smart technical boxing and tight defences (coincidentally American) while the Klitschkos are lambasted for not putting on an all out show of destruction. Explosive fighters will naturally accumulate more interest than cagey ones but it doesnt mean they are any better. I would bet good money if the Klitschkos were US they would hyped as some kind of unbeatable combination rather than criticised for not knocking guys out quickly enough.

I see guys like Tyson Fury being called the next big thing and I see a an out of shape guy struggle and get gifted a decision against the most domestic of heavies in McDermott. How anyone can get behind this guy and criticise the Klitschkos is beyond me.

Mayweather is a defensive and counter puncher, but when he is on the offensive, he doesn't just stick out jabs. Ask Hatton. Yeah, the Klits may wait till round till the last 3rd of the fight, but my point is their oppopents are not that good to be taken that far as you have said about the lack of credible opponents for them. So, if that's the case, why wait till that far? If you are entertaining, far enough. But you just jab a hapless and toothless opponent to submission which he should have gone long ago.So they may have a decent KO ratio, but you get my point? Hopkins is smart with his defence, but he attacks. Again my point is, if he has his opponent all at sea, he wouldn't jab him for another 3 to 4 rounds. He will attack. Powerful guys like the Klits should finish off opponents far earlier, then they will be given credit and say " they can only fight what is put infront of them".

I didn't mention Tyson Fury's name, so where from that point? He is not good enough in my opinion. If it wasn't his name, he wouldn't generate much interest.

Boxers don't have to be hit if they are smart enough to get out of the way. But you can be elusive and still attack. So the Klits may have their style top protect themselves. Fair enough. But all am saying is they don't seem to easily finish off a hapless opponent who has lost all will to fight. There are instances where boxers have toyed with a "beaten" opponent before he is finally knocked out, but this is not the case here. It's more of apprehension. I will understand that when it's a dangerous fighter like Holyfield (of yesteryear) but not people like Gomez. That's what makes then boring. When you are being trained by Manny Stewart and you are still that stiff, then it's in you.

David Haye is being smart. He knows the heavyweight division is bereft of excitement and characters. Whilst the Klitschkos are winning fights and knocking people over, they are so dull! Haye brings controversy and has got people talking. It's similar to the Eubank approach. He got people interested in the sport which culminated in over 12m people watching him fight Nigel Benn.

I go for Haye on points but a lot of shrewd people in the sport picking him to stop Valuev. I can't ignore these opinions.

I tip my hat to David Haye. This is a slap-bang average fight, that Haye has managed to successfully talk up in Britain at least.

Look objectively at the fight:

Valuev has struggled past Liakhovich, 'a 5 years past-it' Ruiz and the 46 year old Holyfield. Chagaev is the only decent boxer he's faced in a 52 fight career!

Strip away the bluster from Haye and we get to 1 decent fight-Enzo Maccarinelli. Great fight but doesnt make you a great overnight.

Throw in the fact that being in Germany- Haye cannot win a points decision- such is the corruption in Boxing.

With all that in mind Haye is doing a fantastic job to sell this contest.

It is amusing how easily seasoned journalists fall for the Haye promotional trash talk.. (think if this was another sport would it be so heavily covered???) That said, Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ relentlessly promote Facebook so it is perhaps an instutional issue.

What on earth does the phrase'dropped a close decision' mean? Never heard of that usage. Do you mean he lost in a close decision?

Ben Dirs,

I'm not privy to the PPV figures but I'm far from convinced everyone does want to watch it.

I think your pointing to the circus nature of the fight "The beast from the east" and all that. But on that measure, Holyfield-Valuev would also be categorised as "Intriguing"- if you watched it, it was a disgrace to the sport.

If the circus element is so interesting then fair play... I prefer quality boxing- it irks me slightly that far better fights hardly get a whisper on Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ.

Regarding falling for promotional guff -I was having a point at Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ sport journos- we see far too much coverage of the frothy stuff- of Mr Haye in a SKY box office shirt with a thinly veiled "Buy Now!" message.

I love boxing and you are a knowledgable and intelligent writer on the sport... I just know that output on the Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ Sport website can be much better than simply reporting press conference drivel and childish pranks?

An interesting article.

Hopefully Haye can do it tonight, but I would be a lot more confident, if he'd had 2 or 3 more fights at heavyweight.