Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ

The link to the 2001 Brazilian GP links to the 1990 Japanese race.

For the Japanese one why dont you try clicking on the 1990 Japanese Grand Prix embedded in the blog. Also same for the Brazilian but that still loads the Japanese one at the moment.

Unfortunately this is the only part of the Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ F1 experience that is now letting us down. I used to really enjoy the Classic F1 videos, but now all we are getting are repeat races chosen by the drivers and also races that you can't even show us!

I suggest a re-think about this feature, before a lot more people get disheartened with it.

Great blog Mr Benson!!!

Quick question if anyone knows... Where will the DRS zone be for Monaco GP? If its the start finish strate will it be long enough? Sorry if this starts a fake racing argument. :o(

nice to hear the voice of james allen again on the brazilian gp highlights.

This format is dead. Used to really look forward to seeing these pop up, see races I hadn't seen before, fondly remember some that I had, but instead I can virtually recite the Japanese Grand Prix of 1989 and 1990 from memory. Sort it out.

We've had plenty of seasons that have produced only the occasional gem... it doesn't surprise me that many drivers are picking seminal F1 meetings.

People complain if the drivers pick 'modern classics' and complain when the drivers pick 'classic classics', just goes to prove the all-of-the-people-all-of-the-time thing.

I'll watch any F1, old or new, so there's still life in this format for me!

Am I the only person who thinks the choice of 1988 monaco is inspired? The Senna movie is coming out soon and (for a man of 26 who was 3 years old when this race occured) I find fascinating to see the way Prost and Senna's relationship developed over the season. It is fascinating comparing it to recent first season driver pair rivalries such as Alonso-Hamilton and Vettel-Webber.

You also never hear of any of Senna's mistakes and sometimes it's good to remember he was actually human.

Why? was the 2001 US Grand Prix not avaliable because of technicial problems?

7 - I agree! I like the views of the other drivers - and in the selection there is generally a random race or two, along with the top top classics, but that is going to happen! They're the favourites.

Ultimately people enjoy the old footage, because its not as fresher memory, and I love them. Maybe there is the possiblity that they can introduce more of that next season.

However, for the time being and for the remainder of the season - I'm happy to stick it out in the current format.

I like it - and I love the Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ coverage of the F1. We've never had it so good.

Good stuff :-)

i got great respect for nick. Hopefully he gets to win a race before he retires.

Shame about it not being on freeview and shame about US GP 2001 (Murray's last ITV commentary), But hey you can't be too critical we've got one new race highlights in Brazil 2001 and its around 15 minutes long. Thats brilliant when you consider when this feature first started in 2009 many of the short highlights were only around 5-6 mins top in the first few features. Also interesting to know why now we can have James Allen's commentary, not a complaint Andrew just wondering.

At 08:32 25th May 2011, RAD wrote: "I used to really enjoy the Classic F1 videos, but now all we are getting are repeat races... I suggest a re-think about this feature, before a lot more people get disheartened with it."

Seconded.

Do you yave any really old stuff we could see for the classics? Maybe show some footage from the 50s or 60s. The classics for the British Grand Prix could be one from Britain for each decade if the footage allowed.

At 08:32 25th May 2011, RAD wrote: "I used to really enjoy the Classic F1 videos, but now all we are getting are repeat races... I suggest a re-think about this feature, before a lot more people get disheartened with it."

Seconded.

Love the format despite the repetition of some choices....if you're looking for other highlights then surely this cannot be your only source?

Webber for a repeat win this weekend - was fast through sector three in Barcelona which will be slightly invicative of Monaco corners and looked inspired here last year. McLaren's to fill other podium slots.

Nice one Andrew and Nick, even if some of the above "fans" don't seem to agree with this format. Modern classic or old classic, IT'S ALL CLASSIC!!! I love it anyway

Not Japan 1990 again!! Beyond the first corner, this was NOT an entertaining race...

Where does Mexico '90, Monaco '92 or Donington '93 rate in the drivers' reckoning?

HOW DID PROST OVERTAKE BERGER????

I think it's clear this format isn't great, but in Andrew's defence he's trying his best. He's given us Monaco 88 in full despite the fact it wasn't in Nick's choices.

The only thing I would strongly argue against is this point that the well has run dry. There's a number of great races still to be shown:
1989 Canada - Boutsen comes through in appalling wet conditions. Senna, rarely, loses the car.
1989 Australia - Another exciting wet race.
1990 Brazil -One of Alain Prost's best drives. Climbing up the field and ultimately pressurising Senna to win.
1992 Spain - Mansell storms to victory but the rain behind causes chaos.
1993 South Africa - Senna, Prost, Schumacher all battling for first. That's a total of 14 world championships between them! Then a freak rain shower at the end causing carnage.
1995 Argentina - Hill, Schumacher, Coulthard in a three way battle.
1995 Britain - Hill hits Schumacher in controversial circumstances. Herbert wins.
1996 Japan - Not great in terms of action, but one in any British fan's memory from that season. I think we can have one nationalistic choice per season!

My knowledge of 89 and onwards is more complete than prior to 88. I'm sure an expert on the earlier years can give you a similar list of 79-88.

Bottom line: The well has much more left to give!

Re; #19

Thank you for your response Andrew. Like me, I'm sure those who have expressed frustration at the repetition of some of the races shown on here do so in the best intentions and do not mean to come across as unappreciative. I, and I hope others, understand that you are under pressure by the current restrictions placed upon you and are trying your best to provide good content. Please be aware that the only reason some are getting frustrated is because you have spoiled us so much with the Classic GP during the 2009 and 2010 seasons!

Where possible, we would appreciate it if previously shown races that have been featured more than twice were not shown again for a while. However, if this is simply not possible it is understandable and does not diminish our gratitude for your efforts.

Keep up the good work.

Many Thanks!

I admire you determination to keep going with this Andrew. Last week I was pretty disappointed to find out most of the races shown here were in fact repeats we've seen a few times before, and some already this year.

But then, how many races can be a classic! It's inevitable to get repeats.

I stick with you, because you are showing some great insight into these races, and for the new fans of F1, this is must be great to watch, and really feeds their new found enthusiasm.

Every classic F1 post is available on this website so why not watch that if you are not happy with the choices made this week.

@23 I couldn't agree more. Given the current restrictions you guys face, we're thankful just to have this feature keep going as it is. Many thanks!

21.At 11:13 25th May 2011, Airan Rodenas wrote:
HOW DID PROST OVERTAKE BERGER????

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Berger missed a gear

Full highlights of Monaco 88? Great, look forward to watching! I really wanted that one picked last year (instead of 1984) when we only got short highlights.

Look forward to seeing Brazil 2001 too - loved that race as it was Schumacher's first defeat since Spa the previous year. :-)

I've often defended AB on a number of topics, and I've enjoyed his pre-Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ work as a journalist, but on this one I regret that I can't. As one who has been disappointed in the format change, AB has kind of made my point for me (and others) expressed in previous blog comments.

If there are no 'classics' (based on the word being defined as 'great' or 'memorable', rather than 'aged'), then why is the strand still being referred to in this way?

If it were titled "2011 F1 Driver Favourites" or akin, then I'd be less bothered, Given the current drivers' ages, we are not likely to see much of any vintage - unless you include retired drivers (like Berger, Patrese, Oliver as well as the ex-champs) or Karun Chandhok, the walking F1 encyclopedia! - and there would bound to be overlaps. I'd accept that, and therefore already be half-expecting there to be little or nothing of interest to me, but be pleasantly surprised if there was.

But it isn't.

And what is there has already been shown recently, using Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ resources (airtime, most notably) to present material whose familiarity will produce fewer, licence-paying, viewers. (The discussion on the effective use of the Red Button, especially on Freeview, is best left for elsewhere.) I'm not averse to repeats so 'late-comers' can enjoy these races, but as also noted above there is other material still unscreened I and others would watch.

So in short, I ask you please not to present re-heated apple crumble and tell me it's a chocolate ice cream sundae. I don't think that does anyone any favours.

Sorry.

Andrew,

Just wanted to say I quite like this new format. Ok, we don't get 5 new races each time, but we still get some new content and that makes it worthwhile. Given the other things being cut at the Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ I think we should all count ourselves very lucky to have any classic F1. Hope it can continue next season, in some form or another.

Thanks also to Nick H for a few good choices.

I really like this blog, but feel the format needs to be tweaked slightly

The best Monaco Grand Prix's ahead of this weekends race for example should be decided by a poll, and then the highlights and some analysis are posted in this blog.

Everyone wins and no one can complain because everyone has had their say and you should get a very wide spread of race suggestions from people of all ages.

Thats what and it seems to work.

Not a great fan of the current format, but I did enjoy watching Monaco 88 again this morning. Seen it many times, but never tire of watching any of the old races at monaco. And I dont even like it as a race track, but theres just something about the atmosphere the race creates. So thanks for showing that.

incast,

You have named 8 races from a decade. That is not even 2 race weekends worth of classic F1. The feature has run for two years already.

Where is this untapped supply of classic F1? 5 a race weekend is over 80 a season.

Would have been so much cheaper for them to just start at 1979 and work through the seasons 1 race per race weekend, it would have been never ending and great to follow seasons many of us have not seen before. So I seriously do not buy this economics being used as a defense for this poor format, when so many agreed following old seasons as you watch new ones would be a great use of this slot.

Maybe if drivers chose about 10 races at a time, we could have a vote to see which ones we'd like. Say put up a post for it on the Monday or Tuesday, before the Classic F1 on the Wednesday.

Perhaps this feature should be renamed Vintage F1, since the Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ seem to be hung up on having to find "classic" grands prix. And, like corybungo says, Japan 90 was no "classic" after Turn 1, so there's no logic in showing that one (again) if it's just for "classics".

For me, it's nice to see the old circuits and cars that were used in the 70s and 80s (for example), even if it's not an absolute cracker of a race. If we get the extended race highlights that the Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ used to put out, then at least it'll be fairly short and sweet - and a good trip down memory lane.

Like so many, I'm getting less and less to find interesting in this feature...

At 16:11 25th May 2011, tommybrusher wrote: "Where is this untapped supply of classic F1? 5 a race weekend is over 80 a season."

and

At 16:19 25th May 2011, Lyla wrote: "Would have been so much cheaper for them to just start at 1979 and work through the seasons 1 race per race weekend"

And

At 17:52 25th May 2011, Cameron wrote: "Maybe if drivers chose about 10 races at a time, we could have a vote to see which ones we'd like."

You've all stumbled on issues which I recall have been raised before. The first iteration of Classic F1 followed the season (past races for Oz were shown ahead of the latest AusGP, and so on), save for events likes Bahrain and Abu, which had little or no back catalogue, where other events were selected (SAGP, Portugal, Dutch GP and so on, or just a free-for-all). A selection of races drawn up by Andrew were supposedly being voted upon by contributors to the blog, due to the word "choose" in the Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ F1 homepage write-up, but that was not the case. This faux vote then became more of a discussion once it was clear there was no democracy involved. The repeated footage did not follow a year-by-year, race-by-race, good or bad, format as Lyla requests, though I recall it was suggested as a means of extending Classic F1's shelf life.

The question of how many races ought to be shown, hinted at in Tommybrusher's comment, has also been raised before, since it was clear last year (maybe in 2009 too) by a number of contributors that the number of programmes shown was unsustainable in the long term, and some true classics (in both senses of the word) were being presented in the 9min clip format when they were as much deserving of a full repeat at the 'winner'. It was suggested that the number of programmes be reduced (again to preserve longevity of the strand) and that the repeats selected for transmission be given more airtime.

To some extent this did happen, but only rarely, with two full repeats of 'Grand Prix' shown on occasion. (Incidentally, in 2009, a 1992 tribute documentary on Senna was shown as well, so there is also other material that can be aired.) The arrival of the full highlights repeat of the previous year's race to accompany the Classic races for each GP (which many contributors also didn't want, and said so) then appeared to restrict the airtime to allow fewer but longer repeats of 'Grand Prix' to be screened.

Consequently, by having chopped up perfectly good races which could have been held back and shown as full repeats (and spent money to edit them down for no good reason, as Lyla alludes to), we have apparently now run out of 'classics'.

It's not as if this situation was unexpected, or without provisions offered to avoid it, by those who wanted Classic F1 to endure. But no-one at the Beeb took any notice (perhaps except for AB himself, who I suspect is carrying the can for decisions made elsewhere), and so we're in a position where a feature which attracted hundreds of comments in a day currently stands in the mid-30s, where a lot of being said isn't very positive.

The new format and the fingers-in-ears-la-la-la approach to what contributors have actually wanted, seems akin to the killing of certain TV shows, where the format is deliberately changed and the show put in places people can't see it (Freeview coverage of Classic F1 now barely exists) in order for channel execs to later claim that a lack of viewers was the cause of its demise.

At 08:44 25th May 2011, Spurs Thundercat wrote: "This format is dead."

I fear it will be more than the format that's on the way out.

Hey Kif, don't worry the Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ have read your comment, and understand your concerns however due to budget concerns and supposed increased viewers, they will ignore it and proceed with their plan giving each other a slap on the back for a job well done and licking ice cream off their BAFTA, they will then reassure you that in fact you are wrong and their ice cream now tastes the best so you should learn to accept that and enjoy the coverage with all these extra viewers...who are probably just grannies trying to work out where the news is on their new mandatory digital TV.

pants! this feature needs work! bring in some ex drivers too like, Mansell, prost, Damon etc, and how about asking Murray, DC and Martin too? there's loads you could do.. The excuses about lack of bandwidth for freeview? lame! only the Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ would allow something as fundamental as bandwith to be lacking. whats happening this year? along with the terrible F1 forum format this year, we seem to be going backwards again!

I agree that this format is becoming a bit of a re-hash and is consistantly delivering material already available. I'm increasingly using Huw Selby's f1 links page (type huwselby f1 into google, it's top) which links to every single f1 highlights that the Beeb has put onto the site. You can pick and choose what race you want to watch and it is increasingly more satisfying than this feature.

If we are running out of classics, why not start showing some of the other races? Each F1 Season review video covers every race and rarely becomes tiresome (except Monza 97 which I think is the most boring race I've had the missfortune to watch!). Adding more races (even if they are not considered "classics") also puts other races in the season into context and can give new watchers a better understanding of what was happening in each season (driver relationship, car development, technical regs etc).

Final point, if resources are the issue for generating new content, surely the Beeb will be able to dedicate far more time to F1 now the footie season has finished?

Completely agree with Incast, there's loads of classics that can still be shown.

1989 Brazil - Mansell won his first race for Ferrari
1989 Hungary - when Mansell started in 12th and won
1989 Portugal - where Mansell was blackflagged and then collided with Senna
1990 France - last race at Paul Ricard where Capelli in the Leyton House was a handful of laps away from winning
1990 Australia - Mansells last race for Ferrari when he went on a Mansell charge after Piquet and made that last lap lunge
1991 France - Mansell fighting with Prost and twice overtaking him around the outside
1991 Germany - Prost being brake tested by Senna on several laps and then stalled it eventually
1991 Canada - Piquet inheriting the win after a certain Brit stopped yards from the flag
1992 Hungary - Mansell clinching his WDC
1993 Donington - don't need to say why
1995 Spa -Schumacher v's Hill, great battle
1996 Monaco - where only 3 cars finished and Panis in a Ligier won

Ok alot of mine feature Mansell but there's plenty more gems out there waiting to be picked. Japan 1990 was finished on the 1st lap and I don't know why so many drivers pick it.


Ok

I think it's great to see some older races, even if we do get some repeats. It's also great to see which races the drivers choose and their thoughts on these races.

I'm looking forward to seeing which races other drivers choose and looking forward to some more different races in this blog! I also think it'd be good to see which races some of the retired drivers would pick, and hear their views on the races :-)

I am just glad we get ANYTHING F1 themed to watch FREE in the run-up to a Grand Prix weekend. All the MOANING about REPEATS or MORE CLASSICS, is petulant and greedy. Be thankful for the work going into the ENTIRE Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ F1 coverage. I'll watch anything F1...and watch it again.

Have to agree with #41/42

The content/coverage that the Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ is currently providing seems amazing to me??? Personally I'm really enjoying this feature, it gives a new and different insight into the drivers and if anything the issue of repeats should just be testament to the use of the word 'classic'.

Also, to the people complaining, would you really have the time in your day to watch five new races each time this blog is published? I'm a lazy student and I know I dont, stop the moaning and appreciate what you get for your licence fee.

Hello Andrew hello everyone. Some good choices from Nick Heidfeld. It was nice to see footage of Ayrton Senna round Monaco in 1988 with the dominating McLaren Honda MP4/4 in the last turbo era season. I enjoyed it up to lap 67. To this day it is still sad see that part of the race.Ayrton was joy to watch in the 80's 90's in qualifying because his skill was fully displayed round the Monte Carlo barriers. Honda power dominated Monaco between 1987 - 1992. Also amazing between 1984 and 1993 only two drivers won the Monaco grand prix. Will anyone dominate Monte Carlo like Ayrton Senna? 87, 89, 90,91,92,93. Easily the greatest F1 Driver.

Well how spectacularly disappointing to watch the nail-biting climax to Brazil 2008, but ruined by two Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ commentators who didnt really get what was going on! The original commentary by James Allen and Martin Brundle was 1000x better, as they actually picked up the situation with Glock as it unfolded, and allowed them to portray appropiate emotion. Maybe I'll watch again but with the sound off.

@43 I don't want 5 races a race weekend, I think that is ridiculous and wasteful especially when most are repeats or recent, the idea supported by the majority asked last year would only require 1 race per weekend. Which I am sure more of us would have time for and feel able to take the time for. This current presentation is next to useless. We could know every ones classics by publishing 1 article or blog summarising drivers choices.

The other way if you wanted to do a driver one would be to ask all the drivers, team owners and any other player in the sport to pick their 5 all time favourite races that perhaps inspired them to be part of the sport, then have a top 18 countdown of the most popular races with who voted for them and why. Concluding with the most popular at the final race of the season.

Again less races per week which imo would be good, especially if budget truly is a concern, less repetition, and less "this was my first race", "here I went from 14th on the grid and finished 12th and only 2 drivers ahead of me dropped out", etc.

@45

I'd tend to disagree that the commentary of Brazil 2008 by Crofty and Maurice was disappointing... It displayed the exact emotion that was going on around the circuit. All the Brazilian fans and those in the Ferrari garage were feeling exactly the way it was described by Crofty until it dawned on them all that Hamilton had managed to pass Glock.

Yes Brundle and Allen called it correctly on the night, but the Five Live commentary was hardly disappointing!

On another note, I am pleased with Classic F1 as it is currently presented - however as mentioned above by Incast etc, there are still some classics left to show.

@20

The 1990 Japanese GP probably would have been a great race if Ayrton had not needlessly pushed Prost off the circuit trying to prove a point to the then President of the FIA. And I say needless because it was. If you research the points permutations from that year you find out that Senna only had to finish behind Prost to win the title

At 17:40 26th May 2011, reptongeek wrote: "If you research the points permutations from that year you find out that Senna only had to finish behind Prost to win the title"

That hypothesis assumes that Senna would finish. All you need is a Jean-Louis Schlesser moment at the chicane and that certainty flies out the cockpit. Senna's rationality is sound (if not his motivation, and maybe not his morality either), because removing Prost by engineering a collision, or merely allowing a collision to come about, guaranteed instant success with little effort, no uncertainty, and with a good chance of survival if executed at the start, where the contact could also be construed by the officials as a racing incident (which at the time it was).

Ayrton himself may not have thought exactly along all those lines, and may even have just felt bl**dy-minded about perceived injustices and wanted to take out Prost regardless. But strategically (if for little else) it was the right thing to do.

I agree with your sentiment though, reptongeek, but I can also see why Senna chose not to yield even though I personally didn't like what he did - and still don't twenty-one years later.

One thing that I would like to see - an 'encylopedia' of all the Classic F1 races. Just one long blog post containing all the races ever shown on this blog.

I'm tired of searching so far into the Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ just looking for one race I've remembered about.

As already mentioned in an earlier post if you google huwselby f1 he has a page linking to all the races shown so far

On the subject of Senna I agree with Kif (comment49) that Senna ruined the 1990 Japanese Grand Prix by "engineering" the demise of what promised to be another monumental showdown along the lines of the 1989 race which has to go down as the all time greatest race. The repeated endorcement of the Japan '89 and '90 races underlines the Prost/Senna era as the greatest in F1.

But I cannot buy into the sentiment that Senna was a peerless god in the world of F1 because the facts, annoyingly, don't support it. Senna won his first world championship in '88, but Prost scored more points that year; Prost beat him in '89 in equal equipment driving for a team that had already switched it's allegiance to Senna, because Honda, McLarens engine supplier, liked Senna. In 1990 Prost grabbed Ferrari by the scruff and brought them to the brink of their first world championship since 1979; until of course hopes were dashed in Japan turn 1.

Great times though, every race had the feel of a heavyweight title fight; emotions were raw and real.

I LIKE the new format Andrew! The concurrence of multiple drivers opinions really go to underline the significance of the Prost/senna era in the history of F1. It's funny but at the time motorsport journalists wasted screeds of paper whining on about how F1 was not what it used to be, back in the golden era of Fangio and Moss. But, come on, those geezers were blind to what was going down in front of them - the pinnacle of classic F1 - the Prost/Senna era.

That said you have to now have to re-examine the archives for Prost/Senna moments like the pit wall incident in Portugal; the first turn at Imola '89 the race that started the rift; Prost's amazing slap down of Senna at the '88 French race.

Yes, I'll agree Senna was great - magical if fact - but Prost was more that is equal.

FANTASTIC to hear James Allen and Martin Brundle commentating, rather than Jonathan Legard or somebody else reporting how the race went. Please keep this trend for the future. It would also be nice if we could hear Allen and Brundle for all the ITV races - just for nostalgic purposes - as I did watch the races live, rather than listen to 5 Live commentary.

Unable to show on Freeview, nothing to do with lack of bandwidth, almost 24x7 coverage of RHS Chelsea is the problem. Do we really need to see the same 20 min program reapeated for hours & hours? I wouldn't mind setting my recorder to pick up classic F1 in the early hours, I agree with earlier comments, we are getting left out on Freeview lately, we used to get several shots at Classic F1, now we are lucky to get a single slot. This time nothing, so eventually no one will watch so Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ will quietly drop.

Monaco '88: First time I've seen this on full length highlights. Not quite as good a race as I was expecting(was also expecting to see Senna in his appartment!).

Also I'm pretty sure the first take of the cake cutting had a different ending! ;)

"Unfortunately, because of a lack of bandwidth caused by our coverage of the French Open tennis, we are unable to broadcast these highlights on Freeview."

Was this the same reason that Thursdays Monaco Practice two, whilst titled as such on 301, was infact non-stop coverage of tennis?

Thank you so much! Really enjoyed watching Brazil 2001 actually and great to hear commentary from James Allen and Martin - they were a great combination!

Thank you. I'm kind of irregular so not bored of the repeats yet. Driver's choose the same races? But if they give different reasons for liking them we still elarn something. I'm wondering what Quick Nick was doing in 1988 if Monaco was his first GP.

It's quite funny James and Murray commenting on not seeing how Senna went of and citing the local TV Director, Croft and Chandok were doing much the same during FP2 when I think we had in car footage of someone on a fast lap, cutting away to something inconsequentail compared to the in car view of someone setting a quick time.

I quite liked Hunt's comments after Alliot went off, 'He has a reputation for shunting.......

Thank you, enjoy the race on Sunday.