ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ

Gd choice. Oh no freeview again must be showing re-run after re-run of some crap! I no it's not you fault Mr Benson but the ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ need to sort out what they are doing with their 'bandwidth' as they as a joke!

The gd choice was for 1991 by the way

No Freeview again, huh... probably because there's Chris Moyles radio programme to be televised.

A RADIO programme, for Pete's Sake! Lack of bandwidth my ar...

Still, it's not as if I got to comment on this one anyway, since the blog was only open for comments for a day, and had been and gone before I got here... (mumble mumble mumble)

1991 - good race, though.

i am delighted with that any chance to watch senna winning is great on its own ,but to see him in his home country and in difficult conditions ,amazing.

also i am lucky enough to have sky so i have access on TV but I do have freeview in my room, so i know how nippy it is, I mean why they have wogans weekend on a constant loop is beyond me but I do wish something could be sorted for the guys who do not have access.

if their is a petition then al sign it

What, no 2008?!? The formula 1 championship decided on the last corner of the last lap of the last race. Oh well

Echo the thoughts above, though I know its not something you have control over. It seems to pointless having a 24 hour loop of Elton John/ Chris Moyles/ some other rubbish; these things surely need only be shown once (as with ordinary programming) and those inclined can record if not able to watch, as we would do if the F1 Classics were shown as a one off broadcast. Who can we voice our complaints to?

Mumble over, another great selection, thank you. Not sure voting for a 1st choice makes all that much difference - I think most of us enjoy the whole selection.

@5 2008 race was on last years classic F1 races

great choice i happy with 1991 even though i picked 1980 it was close for me and a chance to see the larger circuit just swung it for me. but am looking forward to the classic f1 already

Should have chosen 08 rather than 07 !!

the best brazil grand prix ever is 2008 lewis hamilton world champion and lets hope he wins the championship 2010 go lewis.

08 was a choice last year. Also, glad I don't have Freeview. This 'lack of bandwith' stuff is a load of garbage. I'm absolutely 150% certain that at some point between now and the weekend, that space could be found for them, even if it was just a couple of hours at 3am. I feel sorry for those who have Freeview, because the excuses given each time (other than when the Commonwealth Games were on) are utter tripe. Sorry to be so blunt, but there really is no excuse for not having it on Freeview.

"It was clear from your responses on last week's blog that you approved of all our four choices"

Andrew I dont know if you're aware of this, but last weeks blog was closed for replies after an amazingly short amount of time. I personally wanted to throw in a vote for 1980 because I'd never seen the old layout at sao paolo but could'nt. Thought it was just some technical bodgery at the time, but I get the impression now that you were'nt even aware of it.

Wow even though we know what happened I found the last few laps excruciating viewing. What a legend.

RE: 13. At 11:31am on 03 Nov 2010, Andrew Benson.

Many thanks for the clarification, Andrew - I was unaware of this change. Sorry on your part that you have to keep reminding folks about the selection conditions, though.

6. At 10:36am on 03 Nov 2010, f1fansp wrote: "Echo the thoughts above, though I know its not something you [Andrew Benson] have control over."

Seconded. Although I've noted it before it deserves repeating that I don't blame AB for this on-going Freeview fiasco. It seems that the ch301 content is decided by manatees swimming in a big tank randomly tossing around idea balls...

Sadly, AB is becoming the Nick Clegg of the ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ's Freeview RB service: "Hey you guys, I've got this really stupid idea to put radio on TV over and over and over, okay?, and get that Benson guy to take the flak, yeah? Isn't that cool?! Can I be Controller of ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ Three, now?"

Urgh.

Yep, I should point out the same regarding my last comment earlier in the blog regarding Freeview, and say that it wasn't a personal dig at Andrew, as I know that it's not his choice, and I'd imagine if it was upto him we'd have the Classic F1 shown over and over and over again for 3 days or so. The only problem is the noodleheads in charge of Freeview scheduling who obviously don't have the mental capacity to be able to use any common sense.

Great choice Andrew. I wonder how many other classics we have that involve Senna trying to stop races when it rains and he's doing well. Great Driver without doubt, but i can think of 3 other races where he did the same off the top of my head and it takes the shine of his reputation for me along with other 'questionable' incidents.

Also cringe when you have to trott out the 'Bandwith Issue' excuse for Freeview that you've been told to put. Not your fault at all Andrew, but the Freeview controller clearly thinks this will confuse the licence fee payers and we'll accept it. Its clearly nonsense and simply means 'there isn't room as we're choosing to show other stuff'. I haven't bothered to take this up with him / her via the complaints page as the season is all but over, but will next year if this continues. There's plenty of room for anything on 301 (Red Button) 24/7 and he/she knows it. I wouldn't mind, but every 2 weeks you see plenty of posts from people on here saying 'Anytime, Day or Night' to view the footage, and he/she still won't set aside 2 hours between 2am and 4am. Grrr.

Why am i bothered? Simple, broadcasting it allows us to record it, and keep it forever for a rainy day. Without that, the footage will be lost in years to come when the ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ loses the rights (God forbid) and all the links are dead, and none of it is left on a certain video sharing website and the only place left to find it is covered in dust in the ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ archive.

Rant Over Andrew, i know you'd have this stuff on 24/7 if it was up to you mate. Hope you get the issue resolved for next season and a regular freeview slot, yes, even 2am to 4am would be better than nothing

Sorry for wondering off topic. Love this feature, hence the rant.

Keep up the great blogs, coverage and website.

Andrew,

Thanks for the blog, clearly 1991 was the correct choice given the status of the victory & that the Senna film is due to be released next year.

It's a shame that we are stuck with the Ch301 problem, and I recognise it isn't your fault. Is there no way you can show him how much people on here want this to happen? I was sceptical at first but having reverted to Freeview in my bedroom, it is something I miss. The repeats of Wogan, Moyles & the electric proms...I think some of this is good programming, but others of it are an absolute mis step by the freeview editors.

As for the 2008 comments......OMG can we just have a poll link button at the top of the comments box? This way it controls voting fairly...I CBA posting up an 'you're an idiot' response any more because we all know these one time poster's won't come back to read past their own comment!

Anyway...thanks again Andrew, I look forward to the 2010 finale & I hope the ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ boys have some christmas/winter programming lined up to keep us a little amused. ITV used to do a boxing day review, is it possible to get the ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ to do it this year?

Thanks x

Great action from 1991. Personally I prefer Senna's victory from the 1993 Brazilian Grand Prix. An action packed wet race. I'm suprised that wasn't amongst the choices. Maybe next year?

I've just read through all the comments regarding non-availability on freeview because of lack of bandwidth. I was just wondering if there is someone specific we should be directing these complaints to?

Cant believe that you didnt have brazil 2008 on the list!

- that was one of the most exciting races/finishes that we've ever had, and you left it off??!!

So there's "not enough bandwidth" to show classic F1 for a few hours but there's enough to show an entire week of Elton John...?

"Cant believe that you didnt have brazil 2008 on the list!

- that was one of the most exciting races/finishes that we've ever had, and you left it off??!!"

==========================================================================

I get the feeling people are just leaving these messages as a running joke now.

Check out the enthusiastic Brazilian commentary

Thanks :)

previous years here

AB: "drifting into off-topic/inappropriate chat..." What? Us?

But what a drive from Senna- pure joy to watch and still palpable tension at the end 19 years on. Only once a generation does a racer come along who, without a car advantage, can make the rest off the field look ordinary. When that field includes Mansell, Prost, Piquet and Alesi, it's pretty special. To do so handicapped with a failing 'box is incredile.

It's the fact that Senna did it so often that marks him out as the greatest I've ever seen.

Hamilton's done it once as far as I'm concerned (Silverstone '08). Can a yellow-helmeted genius in a MacLaren out-run the faster cars at Interlagos again? Here's hoping...

Will Kimi ever return to F1... If Schumacher did.. then there's a greater chance that Raikonnen will. . He may still join a team in the years to come...

Yep, some good choices, 1991 is great.
I again echo the guys with the freeview problems, I really am finding it stupid that the ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ can cater for us who have Sky (like me) but the freeview guys cant get it?
Im sure that the electric proms have been seen by all on the Internet and Weekend Wogan doesnt have to crawl into Tuesday! but as pointed out, ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ Sport doesnt run Channel 301 but c'mon bash a few heads together at least!
But Im hoping we get a good tace, oh and Andrew any chance that ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ One HD Channel will be upscaling the F1 Picture?? Or just bog standard SD on a HD Picture?

raikkonen will not return schumacher made that coming back and looking like an old fool

raikkonen will not return schumacher made that mistake coming back and looking like an old fool

I am finding the reporting by Jonathan Legard has ruined the spectacle that was the 2003 Brazilian GP? Didnt Radio 5 Live cover it Live?
I had to scamper onto youtube for the ITV Commentary which rescued my memory for a great race and great commentary from Brundle and James Allen.
Im sorry but this consistent banning of hearing James Allen on ITV Races is irrtating and listening to mono-tone Legard apparently 'reporting' is ruining the classic Races and some of Martin Brundle's commentary is dubbed at points which dont mix with the coverage given.

27. At 10:36pm on 03 Nov 2010, FoxesofNuneaton wrote: "I again echo the guys with the freeview problems, I really am finding it stupid that the ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ can cater for us who have Sky (like me) but the freeview guys cant [sic] get it?"

Thanks for that. As it happens I have Sky too, but prefer the Freeview version as it doesn't have 'screen furniture' issues, and I can programme a DVD-HDD to record it when I'm out, have other people around, or (sin upon sin) need to watch something else; the Sky version has random 'loading' symbols popping up and the irremovable "Menu" graphic, plus you have to actively be in the room to access it and watch it live.

There is also a matter of principle, here, and some tangential questions about whether the licence fee is being well spent by endlessly repeating output on Freeview which caters for a small audience that will be quickly exhausted, rather than providing more varied content attracting a rolling viewership. As for televising radio programmes well that just defies logic, while televising Chris "Where's My Money?" Moyles defies psychiatry.

30. At 11:03pm on 03 Nov 2010, FoxesofNuneaton wrote: quite a lot of stuff I won't duplicate here.

There has been a long-running discussion on an Autosport.com forum about Mr. Legard which, if you haven't seen, might be of interest. Personally, I don't miss James Allen one iota; IMHO, there are at least four better commentators out there, but sadly Legard isn't on that list. At least be thankful it isn't Carlton Kirby!

The melange that is the 2003 commentary (above) is pretty crass, and cutting JA's input looks churlish. However, dubbing in general is nothing new in the ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ's F1 highlights output. Often there were discrepancies between Murray's live commentary and the version which appeared on the ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ2's "Grand Prix"; Hunt's input I think was untouched. Most recently, Legard's own commentary in Korea was reworked for the replay of the "whole" Keongam race (which surely breached the Trades Description Act) to cover the 13 lap 'bald patch'... as anyone who tried to meld two halves of a broken GP, after the Tx was switched to ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ 2 mid-race, will know.

I'm off for some more suppressed rage pills...

Foxes & Kif, I agree. The chasm between the commentary for '03 & '07 couldn't be greater; David Croft & Maurice Hamilton are superb. It's a bit like their interruption when Legard & Brundle went awol at Suzuka- for a moment the on-track action was brought back to life with exciting, insightful and inclusive banter.

It's great to learn something about a track and its peripherals you can't see on TV. Does Legard actually know the names of any corners? It's always 'that corner there'! The man's infuriating. Brundle's silences speak volumes. It's just a shame for a top pundit to be silenced, presumably either by shock or rage at Legard's bewildering interruptions.

OK Murray made many blunders, but watching a GP with him is a bit like a Shakespearean tragedy- you can see events unfolding of which a character at the heart of the action is blisfully unaware. It's an additional aspect I can sort of enjoy in itself, waiting for the penny to drop and for Murray to reel open-mouthed from the surprise of the glaringly obvious. Sort of adds to the tension and drama for me.

32. At 3:36pm on 04 Nov 2010, rmjb wrote: "It's a bit like their [Croft & Davidson's] interruption when Legard & Brundle went awol [sic] at Suzuka"

Those brief few minutes gave me one of the biggest laughs of the season - of which Croftie has produced several - when he described a Kobayashi pass at the hairpin as "He shouted 'Leeroy Jenkins' and off he goes..."*

Brilliant.

If F1 is a Shakespearean tragedy, would that make Michael Schumacher 'Lear', Lewis Hamilton 'Othello', DC 'MacBeth' and Jenson Button 'Romeo'? You don't get three guesses as to which F1 personality would be cast as the Roman Dictator for Life, Julius Caesar...

(*If you don't know who Leeroy Jenkins is, check YouTube)

Hey, I've just gone onto the red buttn and caught the lat moments of last year's race and now the stream has been stopped. What gives? It was supposed to be on until 9 o' clock tonight on satellite!

I'm very disappointed: this is getting ridiculous. AB, please convey my dissatisfaction to those in charge. Don't think I'll bother trying to watch it on my computer: I just don't have the bandwidth. More of that hard work to put together classic grand prix, wasted.

Othello Hamilton! Extraordinary. Tho I have missed seeing Nicole Desdemonzinger bopping up and down in the pits of late; I do hope she's all right... And funnily enough, I had an English GCSE essay on whether Michael Schumacher was more sinned against than sinning. Quite a short one, obviously.

Shame Jan Magnussen didn't stick around, or we'd have all the greats. Maximus Mosley as CoriolAnus? Erm...

Are we off-topic yet?

I remember well the 1980 Brazilian race, most notably due to a photo that appeared on the front cover of "Motor Sport" showing Jones, Laffite, and Arnoux hammering down the pit straight side by side by side.

The 1991 race was truly memorable; the abiding memory being that of the post race scenes with Senna being hoisted aloft and carried like an emporer by the Brazilian throng as the rain danced in the headlights and the floodlights of a rain darkened Interlagos track (at least that's how I remember it, I do not have access any form of ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ TV - red button included).

But, for me, when I think of Brazilian classic races I will always remember Mansell's amazing 1989 inaugural race for Ferrari. It was the first race for the paddle shift semi-automatic gear box and the mechanism failed miseably in practice allowing Mansell only seven practice laps all weekend. In the race it worked flawlessly and Mansell came from behind to win his inaugural race for Ferrari. Like Senna in 1991, a dehydrated Mansell had to be lifted from the car at the end of the race, he could barely stand for the podium ceremony.

Hello Andrew. Thanks for showing footage of Ayrton Senna winning his home grand prix. You could see the physical demand it put on him when he received his trophy at the end of the race.

Dissapointed to find that I could watch the programming on the red button, via virgin, last night as this is part of my weekend routine. Seems a bit early to have it removed after just over a day, especially as nothing else was on the multiscreen.

Remember watching the 1991 race on eurosport with Ben Edwards and John Watson supplying their excellent commentary.

35. At 8:07pm on 04 Nov 2010, rmjb wrote: "Maximus Mosley as CoriolAnus? Erm... Are we off-topic yet?"

Umm... I think we might be pushing it a bit. I kind of had Flavio as Coriolanus [without the word play], being Italian and signifying pride before a fall, followed by exile. How about "Timo of Athens"?


36. At 9:34pm on 04 Nov 2010, theNige wrote: "But, for me, when I think of Brazilian classic races I will always remember Mansell's amazing 1989 inaugural race for Ferrari. It was the first race for the paddle shift semi-automatic gear box and the mechanism failed miseably [sic] in practice allowing Mansell only seven practice laps all weekend."

That's my most memorable BraGP, too. 'Our Nige' wasn't expected to last more than a handful of laps by his own admission, so to not just finish, but to win on his Ferrari debut, turned Mansell into one of the greats.


38. At 08:14am on 05 Nov 2010, Richard Upton wrote: "Remember watching the 1991 race on eurosport [sic] with Ben Edwards and John Watson supplying their excellent commentary."

Yup - me too, though only for the practice sessions and qually, preferring Murray on race day. (On Sky's old analogue digital you could switch to RTL during Eurosport's ad breaks!) I was also rather impressed by the later BernieVision ppv version on Sky (F1Digital+), which also paired Edwards and Wattie, and where the season ticket was pretty good value. Extra whistles and bells, no ads, and no Jim 'How can I turn the conversation to football?' Rosenthal.

That said, the ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ output is much broader now that either under ITV (which did at least put qualifying on the regular schedules) or during the ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ's previous tenure, and the timing charts (which F1Digital+ also had) can now be accessed online; thanks to WiFi I can now have my laptop running during the race, with the Tracker running too. Whether F1Digital+ would be as good today comparatively is therefore more doubtful. Nevertheless, although my other half didn't much like JW, I felt the Edwards-Watson team was solid , but I think an Edwards-Brundle combo could be even better.

Hi
are we going to have 4 choices for next weeks Abu Dhabi grand prix?

Intersting that Wattie's commentary skills should be brought up. Wattie and Bell (Derek that is)"called" a couple of races for ESPN in the early nineties and spent the entire two hours insulting each other, it was an enjoyable diversion from what was happening on the track.

Brundle retired from one race, and upon removing his helmet Wattie and Bell immediatly zeroed in on his bald spot - funny stuff. Their commentary style was like two kids without adult supervision.

Hi Andrew
Firstly, please don't get me wrong, Classic F1 is probably the best service that the ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ offers over the GP weekend, though it is a bit of a secret society (As far as I am aware the Practice/Qualifying/Race & Forum programs have only ever mentioned it once (Jake mention it on the F1 Forum, but I think it must have been a mistake on his part)).

Secondly I have been looking though my Freeview EPG and lets get some FACTS on here....
From Thursday 5:40pm until the start of the ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ1 race program (Sunday 3:10pm) Freeview is showing 20hours 15mins of Elton John at the Electric Proms over 7 timeslots, (and as the classic GP loop for Brazil takes 2hours 20mins) any one of 5 of these slots would have been long enough for 1 showing of Classic GP!
Now lets talk about Robert Plant at the Electric Proms there is 7hours 35mins of this before the race (3 timeslots) and don't even get me started on how much there is after the race...... (3hrs on Sunday night... 14hours 55mins on Monday... 19hours 10mins on Tuesday, and it goes on like this right up to the Abu Dhabi GP Practice next Friday!.

Then we have live coverage of Radio shows (RADIO SHOWS): Chris Moyles gets 3hours 35mins & Danny Baker gets 2hours! Can't help but find this amazing.

There is also 4hours 45mins given to Stephen K Amos (Genre: β€œChildren”.... Sure is this yet another Red button error)

So to summarise, there is 27hours 50mins of looped Electric Proms, a further 5hours 35mins of radio shows, 4hours 45mins of a stand-up comedian with "an exclusive extra sketch". BUT not a single slot of 1hour 20min available to give even 1 showing to the Classic GP races (or 2hours 20mins if last years highlights are included).

On a personal note, I decided to by a Freesat kit to get around this problem and the lack of red button services on Freeview (owing to last years withdrawal of channel 302). However, for those of us who still rely on the dying service that is Freeview, Classic GP only takes less then 10% of a days transmission time so the argument that there is a lack of bandwith is utter rubbish (unless it is the ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ policy to broadcast almost endless loops of repeats before showing either new footage (in the case of the 10min highlights) or programs of interest that have not been seen for decades).

41. At 3:32pm on 05 Nov 2010, theNige wrote: "Intersting that Wattie's commentary skills should be brought up. Wattie and Bell (Derek that is)"called" a couple of races for ESPN in the early nineties and spent the entire two hours insulting each other..."

Now that I'd've liked to witness, just for the novelty value! How long do you think it'll take before Brundle and Legard are at it? For some reason (though it's not the same), I'm reminded of an Easter Egg file on the CD of the first ToCA PC race game (it's not a true sim), in which Tiff Needell repeatedly stumbles over some lines for the in-game 'commentary', and sounds off at length about the writer's competence!

"...Brundle retired from one race, and upon removing his helmet Wattie and Bell immediatly zeroed in on his bald spot - funny stuff."

Murray did the same while Brundle was at Jordan (I think), and added "he won't like that!" Tactful!

Fed up with "zingzillas" and other rubbish.

42. At 3:41pm on 05 Nov 2010, Ninja Hedgehog wrote: "... I have been looking though my Freeview EPG and lets get some FACTS on here...."

Superb work! I admire your fortitude in going through that lot.

Anyone know where Ninja can send this data? I've tried to send comments before, but these days the ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ hides direct contact through a barrage of FAQs, and I'm not sure the Freeview Red Button service is covered, since it isn't a channel in the conventional sense. Ninja could try 'Points of View', I suppose.

I've been posting regularly this time because I've been doing stuff at home that's required being online, off and on, with some frequency, but it hasn't allowed me time to research which of the Keystone Kops is responsible for Freeview's RB scheduling. If I can find out where the disgruntled can send complaints (and Ninja's data will certainly help), I'll post it up - no guarantees, though! This blog will close soon for comments, so if I'm successful it will probably be in the pre-Abu blog, unless someone else can dig it up first.

Have a good one, folks.

Hi Andrew & all classic F1 fans,

Thanks for Brazil '91 - Senna was an absolute Legend (an overused word, granted, but fully justified here). Looking forward to next year to see the Senna bio-pic - everyone whose seen it only have good things to say.

Kif and Ninja Hedgehog - you may want to try:-
/complaints/forms/process/complaint

I've tried it a few times this year and must admit I've got the usual 'stock' reply back but the more complaints, the mad Freeview schedulers may sit up and take notice, just try to stress you aren't complaining about the Classic F1 service and Andrew, just the interactive scheduler/s.

As for Brundle the follically challenged one - the Murray quote was featured earlier this year, the '92 German GP I think:-
/blogs/andrewbenson/2010/07/your_classic_grand_prix_race_1_1.html

Talking of Ben Edwards and F1 Digital+ do have a look out for the Official PS2 F1 '01 & '02 games second hand for about Β£2 each from your local Gamestation store with a bonus DVD-Video review of the previous year - just check the bonus DVD is included. He was also quite good on the ESPN coverage of the old CART series on C5 10 years ago (when J-P Montoya was a real force to contend with) along with another ex-pat Jeremy Shaw and some other bloke whose name I've forgotten. And yes Radio 5 Live have/had some good commentators over the years (apart from 'the Ledge', only marginally better than the bore-athon James Allen).

Cheers,

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

Kif, was the TOCA Touring Car Easter egg on the PS version as well? Will have to dig it out, TOCA 2 was an awesome game (for the time) and used it to learn Oulton Park and its banked Shell oils hairpin (a sort of cut-price karusel from the Nordschlife ring - sorry for the spelling if its wrong).

Cheers,