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	TX: 04.03.05 - Scope PRESENTER: PETER WHITE

	THE ATTACHED TRANSCRIPT WAS TYPED FROM A RECORDING AND NOT COPIED FROM AN ORIGINAL SCRIPT. BECAUSE OF THE RISK OF MISHEARING AND THE DIFFICULTY IN SOME CASES OF IDENTIFYING INDIVIDUAL SPEAKERS, THE 麻豆约拍 CANNOT VOUCH FOR ITS COMPLETE ACCURACY. WHITE A charity which has served disabled people for over 50 years is being accused of abandoning some of its most vulnerable clients in order to cash in on its expensive property. A group of flats, which currently is home for around 11 severely disabled people, is currently being offered for sale by Scope. The charity says its past policy of looking after people in residential care may have contributed to creating ghettos and making those who live in them dependent and that it now wants to concentrate on campaigning for integrated living in the community. But protestors against the sale, including many of the residents themselves, say that they suspect that Scope's motives are financial, rather than social. Well in a moment we'll be talking to Scope's chief executive and to a local MP who's angry about the move, but first we hear from Ann McCarthy, whose son lives in the flats and also from resident Mary Lewis. LEWIS I've lived at the flats for 12 years and I think that what's been happening is a despicable act on the part of Scope. MCCARTHY My son Damon has lived at the flats in Cyncoed for the last seven years. The flats are lovely, they're quite independent of each other, they don't have to be in each other's pockets. And Damon has grown enormously since he's been there. When he lived with me I had to make all his decisions really, I would give him his meal and choose his clothes and try and take him out when I could and now he actually has to manage his own affairs. He does feel safe there and he loves the thought that he's got his own front door. LEWIS Most of our residents feel very secure because we are all living together. We've got the 24 hour care there where and when we need it and people are very, very happy living in that situation because all of our residents couldn't survive without 24 hour support. Today, as we speak, a resident was taken out to view a new placement and has come back in a state of great emotion because he felt that wasn't the place where he wanted to be. MCCARTHY I do find it offensive that Scope would squander the monies that they have on expensive refurbishment of their head office this year. So I would implore the trustees to look back to what Scope's founding principles are and what Scope was formed to - supporting and a caring role with some necessary campaigning for awareness. There has to be a balance because both things are vital. This decision needs to be reversed and quickly. LEWIS Scope is doing this they say all in the name of disability equality, but disability equality is about freedom, choice and control and because Scope is doing the kind of equality that they want in order to have financial success they're actually taking our choice, our freedom, our control and our equality away from us. WHITE Mary Lewis and before that Ann McCarthy talking to me from Cardiff. Well Tony Manwaring is chief executive of Scope and he is with me. Why have you done this because after all this does place people in danger of losing their homes? MANWARING Thank you and firstly, I have to say that we deeply regret and want to work with the parents but in particular the residents to find solutions that are effective and support people through this process of change. But why are we doing this? There are two main reasons. Firstly, as you said in your introduction, we think and we recognise that many of the challenges that have put to organisations like Scope over years from disabled people and others that Scope has contributed to the institutionalisation and the segregation of disabled people, has a lot of validity. And we think we have to face up to that and we think that in the new decisions that we're taking about new services and the timing means that we have to take one about this particular one now ... WHITE But that has to be done sensitively doesn't it and isn't there some truth in the suggestion that this is also about charities like yours financial position, isn't it the fact that these are attractive places to sell? MANWARING Absolutely, it has to be done sensitively and as I've said - and the trustees in particular would want me to say, most of whom are disabled people and most of the rest of them are parents and they've all been through this in different ways - and they are absolutely passionate about working this through sensitively with the people concerned. But you've asked me about finances - and Scope has to survive, Scope this year is running a financial deficit of 拢5 million, next year we're running another deficit of 拢5 million. And the major reason for that is that we subsidise the state - the local authorities and others - to the tune of 拢5,000 per service user, per resident ... WHITE So you're saying - can I bring in John Owen Jones at this point, whose constituency Cardiff Central is? I mean the point that is being made there is that is actually the job of local authorities and central government. OWEN JONES Well I thought that the - that Scope or the Spastics Society had a duty for care, as well as a duty to campaign. And the - this particular building - 127 Cyncoed Road - which is in a residential street, is no sort of ghetto whatsoever, was bequeathed to the Spastics Society and now we have the organisation behaving as if it were a rapacious landlord, asset stripping in order to maximise the value, which is an appalling way to behave from an organisation which was set up - a charity which obtains money from people who believe that it's doing good work. Well in this particular instance it is doing very bad work indeed. WHITE Tony Manwaring, are you asset stripping? MANWARING Well the practical reality is that we have to be financially viable, we have to sustain ourselves, and if we don't get some money from ... OWEN JONES Can I ask a question? MANWARING Can I finish the answer before you interrupt me and I'll answer the question. Within a 拢5 million deficit this year and next year we have to keep going and if we don't take this decision then it's many, many, many more service users in many more services that will be affected. And to answer your question we are still in negotiation with the company concerned but we're talking a sum in the order of 拢2 million. WHITE But is it right - I may have to put John's question for him - is it right to clothe this in the question of being - giving people integrated services when actually what you're really saying is that this is a financial inevitability? MANWARING I'm saying two things and they're both consistent and they both reinforce each other. There is a financial inevitability but within that inevitability and working very sensitively and with people we want to move away from segregation, from institutionalisation. And I hear what's being said but at the end of the day this is a service which is the one where the disabled people will live, not with other people in the community, but with disabled people together and we think it's time to move forward so that disabled people can live with others and we have many parents and many disabled people who passionately argue that they should be able to live together and have made that change themselves and feel so much better and argue so strongly for it. WHITE We're going to have to leave it there. Tony Manwaring, John Owen Jones thank you both very much indeed. Back to the Transcripts homepage Back to the You and Yours homepage The 麻豆约拍 is not responsible for external websites

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