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	TX: 28.02.05 - Scooter Train PRESENTER: WINIFRED ROBINSON

	THE ATTACHED TRANSCRIPT WAS TYPED FROM A RECORDING AND NOT COPIED FROM AN ORIGINAL SCRIPT. BECAUSE OF THE RISK OF MISHEARING AND THE DIFFICULTY IN SOME CASES OF IDENTIFYING INDIVIDUAL SPEAKERS, THE 麻豆约拍 CANNOT VOUCH FOR ITS COMPLETE ACCURACY. RUGBY COMMENTARY Line out throw England, taken at the front by Grewcock. Takes it well too. Five minutes in from touch on that far side - the England left. They roll round from that line out and try to make ground but Ireland throw them backwards ... ROBINSON Sports enthusiasts will know that commentator as Alastair Hignell, the former England rugby international, now broadcaster for Radio 5. And that was yesterday's game between England and Ireland. What you may not know is that Alastair Hignell has multiple sclerosis and he has an electric scooter to get around. Now though his scooter has been banned from the train line he uses between his home in Bristol and the 麻豆约拍 studios in London. Today the train operators are meeting to try to agree a policy on these electric scooters, and we'll be talking to them in a moment. First though, Alastair Hignell joins us from his home. First of all, tell us about the scooter you use, what is it like? HIGNELL Well yes it's a four wheeled powered scooter - electric, run by a dry cell battery. I suppose it's really just like a wheelchair except instead of the joystick on the side controls you've actually got handlebars in the front. Other than that it's not really difficult - different to that. I chose a scooter rather than a wheelchair for several reasons - three really in particular. One, psychological - I don't feel ready to be a wheelchair user, and I know that sounds pretty illogical but that's how I feel. And I felt a bit more free and a bit more easy with a scooter. Also my hand doesn't work particularly well, as well as my leg, which is the reason why I got the scooter in the first place, my right hand doesn't work very well and I'm not so good at the joystick controls needed for getting it around. So that, as well as the practical side of it, that when I go and do matches or do interviews for the 麻豆约拍 I need to carry a certain amount of radio equipment which I can store between - just under my legs, under the seat, between the seat and the handlebars. All those reasons were why I chose a powered scooter in the first place. And I went into it in some depth - did an awful lot of research and chose the best powered scooter for me, that had to be robust enough to get around rugby grounds and rugby matches and in fact this one went to the World Cup final 14 months or so ago. So it had to be the right robustness but it also had to be the right size and I researched that pretty carefully, found one that would fit into the boot of a people carrier and one that was acceptable to all the major people carriers - and I've taken it, as I say, down to the other side of the world, I've been on major airlines, budget airlines, I've been on the TGV in France and until October this last year I was regularly going up from my home in Bristol to the 麻豆约拍's office in London to carry on work and so on. But I'll tell you what happened this October. I was in the queue coming back actually from the 麻豆约拍 when a lady tapped me on the shoulder and said - You can't take that scooter on the train. I said - Well I can and I have done, I've been doing it for three or so years. And I was about to say how helpful First Great Western have always been in helping me get on and off the train and she said - Well you can't take it on. And eventually when we got to the end of the queue and a ticket inspector agreed with this woman I said - Well who are you? And it transpired that she was - she was something to do with customer relations on the First Great Western Train Company. She escorted me to her office and after a few phone calls she managed to say that yes I was allowed to complete my journey, to actually go back on the train using this scooter, but that in the future I would never be allowed to take this particular scooter or take any powered scooter on any First Great Western train. ROBINSON And what reasons have you been given? HIGNELL Well I've complained because I felt it ... ROBINSON Bit silly I should think. HIGNELL Yes and I discovered that yes they do have a ban in place on powered scooters but it's a complete blanket ban against all - against all powered scooters of all sorts. And even though that for instance my powered scooter is smaller than the largest size they allow for a powered wheelchair I'm still not allowed it because it is a scooter. And I even went so far as to say well what if I got one of these foldable powered scooters, which I actually now have and I took to Dublin at the weekend, what if I got one of these foldable ones that folds up to a size no bigger than one of the bigger buggies that mothers and babies are allowed to take on the train, what if I got one of those would that be banned because it was a powered scooter? And the answer came back - Yes it would be banned, all powered scooters are banned by First Great Western. Which to me is totally wrong and very, very discriminatory. ROBINSON As I mentioned, the Association of Train Operating Companies has been meeting this morning to try to agree a new policy on these motorised scooters and John Yunnie is their head of disability and inclusion, he is here. What have you decided to do? YUNNIE Well first I'd like to stress that all train companies welcome disabled passengers and many hundreds of disabled people travel by train everyday. But there is a practical issue regarding powered scooters, which has to date meant that we aren't able to universally accept them. ROBINSON How was it that Alastair was allowed to use it and then suddenly wasn't allowed to use it - well not even suddenly - three years later wasn't allowed to use it? YUNNIE Well I think that Mr Hignell, in common with a number of people, had been travelling with Great Western at a time when they had perhaps not been policing what I understand had been a ban that had been in place for some time. ROBINSON Okay, so what did you decide to do today? YUNNIE Well what we're looking at is a way of enabling those people - and I suspect that Mr Hignell may well benefit from this - who have got very small scooters that a train company clearly understands can be accommodated to travel. The issue is that many powered scooters, although they may be no larger than a wheelchair that we can accommodate, have manoeuvring characteristics that mean that they can't be readily taken from the platform into the wheelchair space on the train, particularly they often will not take a sharp corner, the outer wheels of the four wheeled scooter will often hit the sides of the door. ROBINSON No disabled person would try to get on a train, would they, it's difficult enough, without knowing that the scooter will actually do the job? YUNNIE The issue is that there are a multiplicity of different types of scooters and a multiplicity of different designs of train and the honest answer is that some scooters will fit on to some trains. ROBINSON So if you're going to change the rules so that people like Alastair Hignell who have smaller scooters can use the train, how will you do it? YUNNIE Well what we're asking the train companies to do is to carry out individual assessments of their particular types of train, to identify those which frankly will never be able to carry scooters and those which probably can carry some small scooters. It's likely then that individual train companies may actually look at issuing permits to the holders of scooters that they have identified as being capable to be carried. ROBINSON How quickly might that happen - the permits being issued? YUNNIE Well our meeting this morning has made some recommendations, which will be taken a meeting of our whole disability group at ATOC which will be meeting during the course of March. I hope that thereafter the assessments will be carried out by individual train companies and I would have thought that by the summer we should be clear as to what we're going to do and I would anticipate that Mr Hignell and other users of small scooters should then be in a position to be taken back on to the train. ROBINSON Alastair Hignell, briefly if you would, what do you think about that? HIGNELL Well I welcome the fact he's carrying out - that the train companies are carrying out assessments but they should also carry out modifications, to make sure that their trains are able to cater for all types of scooters and wheelchairs. They've known about the Disability Discrimination Act for some time, the trains haven't been changed in anyway in terms of their design, in fact it has made life more difficult for disabled users and I think they've got to actually look at actually modifying the trains to allow people like myself to use the trains freely. ROBINSON We'll have to leave it there, gentlemen thank you both. Back to the Transcripts homepage Back to the You and Yours homepage The 麻豆约拍 is not responsible for external websites

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