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	TX: 18.11.09 - New Social Care Law? PRESENTER: WINIFRED ROBINSON

	Downloaded from www.bbc.co.uk/radio4 THE ATTACHED TRANSCRIPT WAS TYPED FROM A RECORDING AND NOT COPIED FROM AN ORIGINAL SCRIPT. BECAUSE OF THE RISK OF MISHEARING AND THE DIFFICULTY IN SOME CASES OF IDENTIFYING INDIVIDUAL SPEAKERS, THE 麻豆约拍 CANNOT VOUCH FOR ITS COMPLETE ACCURACY. ROBINSON Free personal care - it's an idea that's been suggested and rejected in England for a decade or more and then ruled out always because it's too expensive. But today, in the Queen's speech, unveiling the last Labour legislative programme before the General Election, the government is pulling the rabbit out of the hat. It's no surprise at this stage but it was a bolt from the blue at the Labour Party conference when Gordon Brown made the announcement. And it does appear to be at odds with the government's master plan for social care, it's been outlined in a huge document followed by a massive consultation which only ended on Friday. So what are the changes and what are we to make of them? Well James Lloyd is from the Social Market Foundation, it's a think tank, and Andrew Harrap is from Age Concern Help the Aged and they're here to help us try to unpick a bit of the detail. Andrew Harrap, social care is currently means tested and it covers help with basic living - getting up, getting dressed, getting washed. Who will get this free care and when are they going to get it? HARRAP Well the announcement today is about legislation and that needs to be approved by Parliament before this change comes in. But we know the Department of Health is hoping to implement it next October, if the law is passed. It will help around 280,000 people and they are people living in their own homes who are the very most disabled people, who need really very intensive help to stay independent. And one of the controversial things about this announcement is that it won't help everyone living in their own home who needs it and it's difficult to draw the line. So one of the questions is exactly how will local authorities decide who does qualify for this free care and who will continue to have to pay. ROBINSON Well as you suggested access to free social care anyway is already very strictly rationed by councils and they have their own individual criteria and that has long been the bug bear - do you think this will at least make it fairer for those who are very ill or disabled? HARRAP It will be very good news for people who are already receiving services from their council, who will be currently charged depending on their means and will from now on receive those completely free. But it's also going to be excellent for people who are turned away from council services because they don't qualify under the means testing system and people who don't even ask for help because they're put off by the complexity of the current system. So we're expecting quite a lot of people to come out of the woodwork who have never asked for support before and demonstrate that they're sick and disabled enough to qualify for this new free offer. ROBINSON James Lloyd from the Social Market Foundation, everyone, as I say, was pretty astonished when this was announced by Gordon Brown at the Labour Party conference at the time in the middle of this big consultation about the government's bit future plans for care, why do you think they've done that? LLOYD Clearly there could be political reasons and I think it is necessary to pick apart some of the detail. As a number of newspapers have noted today we haven't had enormous amount of detail. But as the Guardian has pointed out if you take this £680 million budget, which is being proposed, and divide that by 280,000 people it actually works out at around £40-50 a week which isn't really - doesn't really equate to sort of free personal care in the home, it won't cover everyone's personal care costs in many situations, a lot of people may still have to pay out of pocket. But it will be obviously a very useful extra bit of help for many, many people. And as Andrew has said it will potentially be very useful for bringing some people out of the woodwork who previously haven't sought help. ROBINSON Where does it fit with what is in the Green Paper, the big document outlining the possibilities of what we might do about this business of the need for social care? LLOYD Well as you say there was no mention of it in the Green Paper and it did come out of the blue. I've seen it described in newspapers as a staging point between now and the White Paper and eventual implementation ... ROBINSON So it's a business of let's do something while we can something at least quickly? LLOYD Yes absolutely, it provides a little bit of help now before rolling out further reform. ROBINSON What do we know about what the Conservatives will do if they win the next Election? LLOYD Well they've announced the proposal for a home protection scheme, which would involve people at 65 or after paying an £8,000 premium for insurance against residential care. But what I think is worth doing actually is taking a step back and recognising that any reform on long term care funding must be based on political consensus, it's a very long term challenge and it requires long term consensus, so if we get to a situation where we have different parties with competing policy announcements and actually throwing sort of political buns at each other over the issue then this is just going to confuse the issue and is actually a retrograde step. What I'd really like to see is going into the next Election all the main parties getting together, establishing some common ground, if only some principles for reform, and those common principles going into the manifestos. ROBINSON Andrew Harrap, from Age Concern Help the Aged, what happens about the cost of this then? We've just heard from James Lloyd an analysis that suggests it only equates to £40 or £50 a week per person who might apply for it or need it or qualify. HARRAP There are a lot of uncertainties. Firstly the number of people eligible - the Department of Health is quoting the number of 280,000 - but that is, to be honest, it's a guess because we don't know how many people will come forward. They're pumping more money into the system but what the implementation - how it will work is that local authorities will have a new statutory requirement saying they must provide these services for people who are eligible. If more people come forward or if the cost of providing that care is more expensive local authorities will have to take money from elsewhere. So £670 million, which is the number being quoted today, may actually prove to be an underestimate and councils would then have to take money from council tax or from other budgets to support this. ROBINSON Andrew Harrap from Age Concern Help the Aged; James Lloyd from the Social Market Foundation, thank you both. Back to the Transcripts homepage Back to the You and Yours homepage The 麻豆约拍 is not responsible for external websites

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