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	TX: 13.11.09 - Disabled Tickets Scam PRESENTER: PETER WHITE

	Downloaded from www.bbc.co.uk/radio4 THE ATTACHED TRANSCRIPT WAS TYPED FROM A RECORDING AND NOT COPIED FROM AN ORIGINAL SCRIPT. BECAUSE OF THE RISK OF MISHEARING AND THE DIFFICULTY IN SOME CASES OF IDENTIFYING INDIVIDUAL SPEAKERS, THE 麻豆约拍 CANNOT VOUCH FOR ITS COMPLETE ACCURACY. White Government investigators say they've uncovered abuse of disabled status in order to obtain tickets for premiership football matches. Disabled fans and criminals pretending to be disabled have been found selling their tickets on to touts. Well our reporter Shari Vahl has more. Shari: VAHL Now premiership football tickets are expensive at the best of times, Peter, they can range from £25 to £94 for an ordinary seat but many clubs have priority and concession tickets for disabled supporters and some will provide a carers' ticket free of charge - they're sometimes referred to as a reasonable adjustment because the carer provides a service that the club can't. But officers from the Companies' Investigation Branch or CIB, which is part of the government's department of business, said they found evidence of not only disabled people selling their tickets to touts but able bodied people pretending to be disabled in order to get access to those tickets. Paul Streater is from CIB and he has expert knowledge of the ticket touting industry. STREATER I was at Stamford Bridge for the Chelsea/Manchester United game on Sunday looking at the efforts that Chelsea are doing concerning ticket touting and how they're trying to cut down on it. We came across a couple who were looking for tickets, we advised them quite clearly don't purchase tickets from a tout, the stadium's sold out, the money goes to organised crime etc. About three quarters of an hour later I spotted them entering the stadium, so we managed to stop them at the barriers and question them again. They had two tickets. These tickets were for disabled people and both these tickets on this occasion were for zero value. Chelsea do a thing where they provide on a pro rata basis free tickets for disabled people and it was one of these tickets that had become available. When we asked them how much they'd paid for them they paid £650 for two tickets of face value zero. VAHL Now I contacted Chelsea Football Club and they told me they've now identified the fan who sold his disabled and carer tickets on and he's been suspended as a member of the club pending an investigation. Now obviously non disabled people are known to sell tickets to touts, even though touting of football tickets is a criminal offence in this country. It's still a serious problem and it's widely believed by police and enforcement agencies to fund other parts of organised crime, like drugs and counterfeiting. Paul Streater says it's not just disabled fans but criminals fraudulently exploiting that disabled status as a route through to priority tickets. STREATER It falls into both categories: those that just want to try and make a little bit of extra money and those that are actually being organised to obtain disabled tickets. Probably the one on Sunday was actually a disabled person, legitimate disabled person, that was well known and as such was just making a bit of extra money on the side but didn't realise that his ticket would then be sold for even more money by the touts and again the money would go to organised crime. To those that do organise large quantities of disabled people applying for tickets at different stadiums where the documentation has been falsified or a friendly doctor has assisted in obtaining their disabled certificates. VAHL He has a startling case of a single road in England where he believes residents are being encouraged to become disabled supporters of the nearby premiership club, whether or not they're disabled or indeed football fans. STREATER I have an example of one street in one town where between 40-50% of the street is, if you were to believe them, registered disabled and supporters of the local football club. They obtain tickets and the club is slowly but surely knocking each of these members off as they find that those tickets have been abused and sold for a higher value than their face value. VAHL Now if someone's claiming to be disabled in order to gain tickets that in itself is a criminal offence under the Fraud Act. A spokesman for the Football Supporters Federation told me that they deplore fraud of any kind and ticket touting, whoever does it. But they said their overwhelming experience is that regular match going fans, whether they be able bodied or have a disability, are very rarely the source of tickets obtained by touts. They say it's far more commonly from people within the clubs, including the players, and from sponsors and corporate outlets. WHITE Shari, thank you very much indeed. Well Joyce Cook is chair of the National Association of Disabled Supporters and she joins us. Joyce, what's your reaction to this report? COOK Hi Peter. Well the first thing I would like to say sort of on air is that this only came to our attention yesterday evening. We've listened with interest to - and this morning - to what Paul Streater has said. What we'd like to do, first of all, is to sit down with the DTI and really understand this evidence in detail. Clearly we are aware that there are some isolated incidents where it may be that the odd disabled person is behaving in such a way and we certainly do not condone that behaviour. But this isn't exclusive to disabled people and I think that's really important that that's emphasised right up front on this show. WHITE How series do you believe the problem to be? COOK Well I think we need to look deeper into the evidence. If I can just sort of pick out a few things from Paul Streater's comments. And as I say this is something we've only heard about in the last 24 hours. Of course there are one or two bad apples in all society ... WHITE Well it would be naive wouldn't it to think that - I mean disabled people - one of the things disabled people claim is that they are a cross section of the community and like everyone else - well if you're like everyone else there is likely to be what you describe as a bad apple - a few bad apples. COOK Exactly, I mean I think that's the danger, we don't end up pointing a finger about this being about lots of disabled people willingly making money on the side. And disabled people are a cross section of society like anybody else is. So those social issues - those social issues, whether you're disabled or non disabled. Our understanding is that, as I said before, there are isolated incidents where this is occurring and certainly the bigger, and more important issue, for us is that actually we have a desperate shortage of disabled seats across the premier league. And if I can just pick up the comments made by the DTI representative about the UK street. I mean we would want to know much about that because that statement on its own - and I think I would probably want to say this on behalf of disabled people across the board, not just disabled football fans, I'm pretty sure we could sit down together and in any city in this country find a street where you are likely to find a higher proportion, maybe even as much as 40-50% of that street, that is disabled. And the reason that may well happen, Peter, as you will be aware, is it's quite possible that there's sheltered accommodation, there's specially adapted accommodation, accessible flats etc. ... WHITE As you rightly say we'd need to know more about this particular incident. But can I just put to you, Joyce, surely from the touts point of view this does make perfect sense - they're always looking for an opportunity, it's almost inevitable - disabled tickets are effectively a backdoor on a very tightly controlled market? COOK I can't obviously make very much more comment without seeing the true facts and figures of what is actually happening and at the moment, respectfully, this is hearsay evidence. And what I would say is, as we've already said, disabled people behave in the same way as anybody else in our society does but I know categorically, representing 30,000 disabled supporters in this country, most disabled supporters are acutely aware of the desperate situation to get tickets to go to games. WHITE But surely disabled people wouldn't want their own system to be abused would they? COOK Exactly. And I am very clear of the feeling out there and the majority of disabled fans would not partake in this and would not be part of it. And the odd few that are the bad apples - and we certainly - like any fan, I think if you speak to any fan - you had a comment from Malcolm Clark at the Football Supporters Federation - fans in general are hugely against ticket touting and ticket touting in the main is an issue that is actually not fan based in our experience. WHITE Joyce Cook thank you very much indeed. 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