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	TX: 30.09.09 - Personal Care Announcement PRESENTER: WINIFRED ROBINSON

	Downloaded from www.bbc.co.uk/radio4 THE ATTACHED TRANSCRIPT WAS TYPED FROM A RECORDING AND NOT COPIED FROM AN ORIGINAL SCRIPT. BECAUSE OF THE RISK OF MISHEARING AND THE DIFFICULTY IN SOME CASES OF IDENTIFYING INDIVIDUAL SPEAKERS, THE 麻豆约拍 CANNOT VOUCH FOR ITS COMPLETE ACCURACY. ROBINSON Gordon Brown took everyone by surprise when he announced this: BROWN We have an ageing society and new rightful demands for dignity and for support in old age....[clapping] So I can say today that for those with the highest needs we will now offer in their own homes free personal care. [clapping] ROBINSON So free personal care for those with the highest needs. What exactly did he mean? Who would be included and how might the care be funded and how much care might they get? Well all of this comes at a time when the government has been asking just these questions in a huge consultation on the future of social care funding and there's a review underway of the way that councils means test and allocate care. Niall Dickson, who's the chief executive of the Kings Fund - an independent health research charity, is in our Westminster studio and he's been looking into what the Prime Minister has said. Were you surprised by the announcement? DICKSON Well yes I was very surprised. I'd heard rumours around the conference to the effect that something on social care might come up but certainly surprised by this. We've been involved since our own report in 2007 in pushing for social care funding reform, the government initially having said it didn't think that was required relented and absolutely embraced it. We went through a whole process of consultation with people ourselves, then the government had a consultation programme and now they've had a Green Paper. And we're only now going through the Green Paper process and suddenly this idea sort of flies in from left field. So I think - I think real surprise from all the organisations that are concerned with this area. ROBINSON How do you think then they might define those in highest need? DICKSON Well there are categories which local authorities use and the top category, which is I understand what they've gone for, is that those who are deemed to be in critical need - those who really have the most severe needs, who are almost at the edge of needing residential care - it's that group that they've identified as being - and they say there are around 350,000 of them in England - who would be eligible for this free personal care. ROBINSON And how might it be funded, how much might local authorities have to contribute? DICKSON Well the government say they're going to find £400,000 just like that from the Department of Health's budget, which does beg the question why was £400 million sitting there so easily to be found - it's £420 I think. And then on top of that quarter of a million they will expect to come from local authorities and I'm sure local authorities will respond by saying well actually it's going to be very difficult for us to find that. The government's argument is that by targeting those who are on this edge point you might be able to keep more people within local authority care who would not - who would not otherwise have to go to - go into long term care, residential care, and that therefore that will somehow save the local authorities money. I think actually the reverse problem is also apparent though - which is if I'm having this high care in the community and the local authority's having to pay for it all and if I went into residential care I'd have to pay for it myself there must be an incentive for local authorities to encourage those people to go off into residential care, which is exactly the opposite of what the policy's intended to do. ROBINSON And briefly Niall, there's already free personal care in Scotland, would this simply bring England into line with what happens for the Scots? DICKSON No, it is a different system from the Scottish system. The Scottish system is a sort of top up sum of money that is given to people broadly to cover their residential care and then they get free personal care but it's meant for everybody in Scotland. What has happened there, although it's a very popular policy, is there are questions about its long term affordability and in some places rationing. ROBINSON We'll have to leave it there. Niall Dickson from the Kings Fund, thank you very much for coming on. Q so how does this ‘announcement’ fit in? Q How might they define those in highest need? Q – If they are talking about those in highest need – that could mean funding some high level and costly care …. how much might social services have to contribute? Q – There is already free personal care in Scotland would this bring England into line with the Scots Q – Free care for those most in need is how many social services departments currently ratio services – would this bring all English authorities into line ? Q – this is about care at home – might it perversely mean that people who should be going into care homes, might not? BACK ANNO: Niall Dickson Chief Executive of the Kings Fund – thank you And with just one month left for the public to give their views on how they want social care funded in the future - we’re hoping to speak to the Health Secretary Andy Burnham next Tuesday’s Call You and Yours . And don’t forget you can get more information on social care at our ‘Care in the UK’ website –which you can find by going to the You and Yours website. Back to the Transcripts homepage Back to the You and Yours homepage The 麻豆约拍 is not responsible for external websites

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