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	TX: 23.02.09 - You and Yours - Mobility Scooters PRESENTER: PETER WHITE REPORTER: MARK HOLDSTOCK

	Downloaded from www.bbc.co.uk/radio4 THE ATTACHED TRANSCRIPT WAS TYPED FROM A RECORDING AND NOT COPIED FROM AN ORIGINAL SCRIPT. BECAUSE OF THE RISK OF MISHEARING AND THE DIFFICULTY IN SOME CASES OF IDENTIFYING INDIVIDUAL SPEAKERS, THE 麻豆约拍 CANNOT VOUCH FOR ITS COMPLETE ACCURACY. WHITE Mobility scooters provide a means of getting out and about for thousands of people with disabilities. Not everyone loves them though. On Tyne and Wear, they've been banned from the Metro light rail system because they're considered a danger. Mark Holdstock reports now on the market for these scooters and some of the worries about them. He began with Susan Calvert from North Tyneside who's used one for seven years. CALVERT This is a four wheeled scooter, it's not strong and it's not fast, it only travels at four miles an hour. Some of them do travel at eight miles an hour but this one doesn't. HOLDSTOCK Susan Calvert has Multiple Sclerosis and can only walk a few yards at a time. Having a battery powered scooter - and she's actually on her fourth one now - has changed her life. CALVERT After I gave up driving I sat in the house for about six weeks very unhappy because I couldn't walk far enough to get anyway and then I got a mobility scooter and the world was my oyster. HOLDSTOCK Like Susan Calvert the first person to use an electric powered mobility scooter also had the same debilitating illness. Ray Hodgkinson is the director general of the British Healthcare Trades Association, the body which represents the companies who sell these machines. HODGKINSON There's a guy in America called Al Thieme who had a wife who was suffering Multiple Sclerosis and she was struggling doing the housework and he noticed one day she was using her Hoover and he looked at the motor, which was running it on the front, and thought ah I can do something with that and he stuck it on the front of a wheel, that he'd found, and a platform with two wheels on the back, put a seat on it and that became what was the Amigo Scooter in 1978. HOLDSTOCK So it was a ride on Hoover? HODGKINSON It could have been - it could be termed that way yes, if you want to use that term. HOLDSTOCK But what started off as a bit of improvisation with domestic appliances has grown into a multi million pound industry. HODGKINSON Certainly the last 20 years or so has seen quite an upsurge and we think that certainly last year it was running around about 60,000 units a year, this year it looks as though in 2008 it has dropped back, that may have something to do with the economic situation but it's running at around about 50,000 a year, and that's equivalent to about a £35 million market. Whether it's peaked or not is too early probably to say. RZEPCZYNSKI I'm Sheila Rzepczynski, the mobility advisor at Disability North. We're in the mobility room where we have pieces of equipment, including scooters and powered wheelchairs, where we carry out the assessments. We have Class 2 scooters, which are the scooters designed to be used on a pavement, they go up to a maximum of four miles an hour and we have one of the larger scooter which is the Class 3 scooter, maximum speed eight miles an hour, which is designed to be used on a road. HOLDSTOCK It's got this rather comfortable chair with a seatbelt, it looks quite substantial. RZEPCZYNSKI It is, they are quite biggish scooters, yes and obviously on the pavement with a lot of pedestrians around they are actually made to just go four miles an hour as well. HOLDSTOCK But just as there are many different kinds of scooters the prices vary widely too. RZEPCZYNSKI The smallest scooters you're probably starting at something of an average of £500, there's quite a few that come in about £800-£1,000 - the sort of mid range scooters. And then you can pay well over £3,000 for some of the Class 3 - the larger ones. ROSS My name's Tim Ross, I'm the national sales manager of TGA. We're one of the largest UK's largest suppliers of mobility products. On the larger models they tend to go from £1600, £1800 upwards and again you very much get what you pay for. There's some really nice top end products that are full of features, full of benefits - lot more comfortable with suspension and all sorts of other things. And there are also some budget models, I guess it's a question of getting in contact with a range of companies and trying out a range of products. HOLDSTOCK Just how big and fancy do they get, what are we talking about the Rolls Royce of scooters? ROSS Well we do a Rolls Royce which we get lots of customers ringing in telling us how comfortable it really is and the top end you're looking at just a little bit over £4,000 but it's incredibly comfortable and that sort of product is more likely to come with extra guarantees, extra warranties and they're also built to last and that's a big, big issue in this industry at the moment. HOLDSTOCK For people who don't have a lot of money and perhaps a lot of older people who need mobility scooters don't have a lot of money, is there any help either from state or other bodies to help them buy these scooters? ROSS Yeah, there's plenty of assistance available. First of all there is a great scheme called the Motability Scheme where people can use their disability living allowance to pay for their scooter, it's similar to the car scheme and that way they can spread their payments out over a year, two or three years. There's also plenty - most dealers and sellers of products have various policies, some nought percent finance, some interest finance, where again you can spread your payments over one, two or three years. There's also other ways - there are some charities out there who can help funding. HOLDSTOCK The trouble is that all you need, if you want to use one of these machines, whether it's the smaller type, like this one that can be loaded into the boot of a car, or maybe one of a larger Class 3 models which can be taken out onto the highway, is the money to buy them. It seems you don't need to pass a test or have a licence and nor do you require any of the protections normally afforded to both car drivers and those around them. BOYD There are no actual requirements for you to be able to drive a scooter, there are recommendations, one which we find amusing is that it is recommended that you are able to read a number plate, although there's no requirement. HOLDSTOCK Richard Boyd is the chief executive of Disability Essex. BOYD There's no requirement that they're insured, there's no requirement other than the Sale of Goods Act for them to be adjusted, the brakes tested, the lights working, the horn working or anything else. Common sense dictates it but there's no actual law. In Harlow we had a case of a drunken user on a scooter falling off the scooter and into a ditch with his scooter, ringing the police to rescue him from under the scooter, they prosecuted him for drunken driving but couldn't punish him because of course he doesn't have a driver's licence. HOLDSTOCK And this lack of regulation has now attracted the attention of those responsible for making any changes to the laws governing these machines. The MP, Graham Stringer, is a member of the House of Commons Transport Select Committee. STRINGER I suppose one of the concerns I have is that we don't know very much about what happens when they're out on the pavements and the streets. The Transport Select Committee was doing an inquiry, we got quite a lot of anecdotal evidence, both from the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents and trades unions that there was a problem, that these - they're defined as invalid carriages - can be a danger both to the drivers of them and to pedestrians. HOLDSTOCK Mr Stringer told me his committee couldn't reach a conclusion about any tightening of the law because there simply isn't enough information about the scale of the problem. The lack of firm statistics on accidents is a worry shared by Richard Boyd of Disability Essex. BOYD One minister thought you got them from the Medicines and Healthcare Products regulatory agency and we took him at his word and examined their report in 2006, when we were consulted, and there were no records of any injuries in the United Kingdom caused by scooters or powered wheelchairs. Yet in that year in Essex there had been four deaths with scooters. We then tried to find out how deaths are reported by the coroners and they report them to different people - they report them to the Department of Transport or the Department of Health or Department of Works and Pensions or the Medical Health Agency or the Joint Mobility Unit. So the data is out there but it's scattered everywhere, it's not collected or collated. HOLDSTOCK In a statement the Department for Transport told us: STATEMENT FROM DEPT OF TRANSPORT Current evidence suggests that incidents involving mobility scooters are very rare so we have no plans to introduce new legislation. However, we are aware that the number of people using mobility scooters is likely to increase so we will continue to monitor our research. The DVLA keep records on Class 3 scooters, which can travel on roads at a speed of up to eight miles per hour and need to be registered. All other types of scooter are limited to travel on pavements and can only go as fast as four miles per hour, they therefore do not need to be registered for use. Our priority is to balance the needs of scooter users with the safety of pedestrians and other road users. We continue to keep our policies under review. And supporters of mobility scooters argue that there are enough figures available to suggest that problems have been exaggerated. David Sinclair is the head of policy at the charity Help the Aged. SINCLAIR Before we talk about further regulation we've got to be sure that the evidence base supports the need and the work for the Department of Transport a couple of years ago now, for example, estimated that there's only one reported incident involved a powered wheelchair in a shopping centre for every 15 million visitors or one insurance claim as part of the Shop Mobility scheme for every 200,000 users. So is the scale of the challenge big enough to need the sort of regulation that's being talked about? And I think we believe that there is a need for further evidence gathering to consider whether that's the case. HOLDSTOCK What almost everyone agrees on is the need for all new users to get some training when they first get their new set of wheels. RZEPCZYNSKI This is one of the Class 3 scooters which is quite a size to negotiate round these corners, as you can see, you do have to do a little bit of manoeuvring rather than just career onwards and hope for the best. So it's a bit of forward and reverse gear sort of scenario sometimes. HOLDSTOCK On a specially constructed series of paths outside the offices of Disability North in Newcastle is a track imitating the kind of obstacles which will face scooter users in the real world. This is where new riders can be given some basic training. RZEPCZYNSKI I usually just take them inside to start with so they get a feel on the basic controls where it's quite safe and they remain quite slow and then I do bring them outside so they get used to the environment out here where there are more complicated manoeuvres that would have to be carried out. HOLDSTOCK But even before they get proper training it seems that some people are being sold scooters which are unsuitable. Which recently carried out an undercover operation that suggested many vulnerable people risked being sold machines completely inappropriate for their needs. PEARL I'm Joanna Pearl and I'm a senior health researcher for Which. We set up an old person in a rented house, which appeared to be their own house, they had a husband in hospital and they invited 11 companies round to the house to sell them mobility equipment, including scooters. And the companies obviously didn't know they were being secretly filmed and recorded. And then we had an expert panel, including Trading Standards and occupational therapists and Age Concern to assess what they said and what they did. And we found that 10 out of the 11 companies didn't ask to see the person themselves - the husband, who was in hospital, who would be using the scooter. Only one company said we need to see the person themselves to check that this is okay for them. HODGKINSON That is not good practice, as you're probably aware we do have a code of practice. HOLDSTOCK Ray Hodgkinson from the British Healthcare Trades Association. HODGKINSON There are stipulations about how you should go about doing your business and certainly assessment is an important aspect of it. One of the problems with the Which report is is that we're not privy to the transcript and how it was actually handled. We actually did ask for it and it's still not arrived because it is difficult to comment unless you actually know how that assessment was carried out. HOLDSTOCK Here at Disability North at the Dene Centre in Newcastle the staff will happily carry out assessments for people who are considering buying scooters, particularly the road going Category 3 models, to see whether they're capable of handling them safely. RZEPCZYNSKI You do need to be quite able to actually turn the tiller, which is where all the controls are. And we also consider beyond that the abilities - the function of other parts of the body, such as their neck and their vision because they obviously have to be able to have a good range of vision, as you would do driving anything on the road. HOLDSTOCK And Terry Mallon, the boss of Disability North, is often asked to pick up the pieces when an unsuitable machine has been sold. MALLON One example I can remember in particular was a scooter being sold, I think it was about two, two and a half thousand, to a lady who was in the early stages of Alzheimer's and her daughter obviously clearly said to me she'd been sold this, there was no way she'd be able to use it and that's clear - she'd went down to the shop with cash and purchased the scooter. And unfortunately they say that they can't give you your money back, they can only give you a proportion of it back. HOLDSTOCK With an increasing number of people living longer the demand for mobility scooters is likely to go up in the future. It's also possible that public concern over the way they're sold and used by many could also grow. But disability campaigners and those who depend upon these vehicles say we should never lose sight of how much they can change lives. It's a point stressed by David Sinclair of Help the Aged and scooter user Susan Calvert. But first somebody's who's seen the difference these machines can make to people's whole quality of life. Sheila Rzepczynski from Disability North. RZEPCZYNSKI There is one gentleman who had actually driven a car for a number of years into his 80s and he was unable to do that anymore and to go from driving to being in the house was a huge change for him. So he came here and had the assessment, bought a scooter and when I - he actually lives quite locally to where I am, so I do see him out and about and when you see the happiness on his face when he is out because he can still go and do what he wants to do, he goes to the pub to see his friends and he just - he looks like a child with a new toy almost because he's so pleased with what he is now able to do, it's incredible. SINCLAIR With an ageing society we will undoubtedly see growth in the number of these scooters out and about and they make a fantastic contribution to the quality of life of older people - one in eight older people described themselves to us as being often or always isolated. These are important technologies to help people get out and about and there is a risk that we end up regulating in a reactionary way which actually doesn't particularly solve the problems that have been identified. CALVERT It means that I can go wherever I want to go, I can go around the area and I can go shopping and I can go to friends. I have been to adult education classes at the local high school and I can go where I want to go, which is a lot better. Much as I enjoy listening to Radio 4 there are other things to do during the day. Back to the Transcripts homepage Back to the You and Yours homepage The 麻豆约拍 is not responsible for external websites

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