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	TX: 06.03.08 - Remploy PRESENTER: PETER WHITE

	Downloaded from www.bbc.co.uk/radio4 THE ATTACHED TRANSCRIPT WAS TYPED FROM A RECORDING AND NOT COPIED FROM AN ORIGINAL SCRIPT. BECAUSE OF THE RISK OF MISHEARING AND THE DIFFICULTY IN SOME CASES OF IDENTIFYING INDIVIDUAL SPEAKERS, THE 麻豆约拍 CANNOT VOUCH FOR ITS COMPLETE ACCURACY. WHITE Now in its 83 factories dotted around Britain Remploy makes a range of products, including furniture, textiles, healthcare and household goods. It was set up by the government after World War II to provide so-called sheltered jobs for workers who'd been disabled during conflict. Sixty years on Remploy provides work for more than 5,000 disabled people, work which is subsidised by taxpayers. Many consider that as a business model that's had its time. The government, the head of Remploy himself and some leading disability charities believe that the future of disabled workers lies in employment in fully commercial companies. As a result the government has agreed to Remploy's proposals to close or merge 28 of their sites and to transfer 1500 disabled workers into alternative jobs with the hope that many of them will find work in mainstream businesses and organisations. But the Remploy workers themselves object to the proposals because they feel they're being exposed to the vagaries of a cut throat labour market which - and where they face intense competition for jobs as well as discrimination. Well over the last few weeks they've been staging a series of two day strikes to protest against the proposals. We sent Stuart Robinson to hear the arguments at a threatened Remploy factory in Birkenhead. ROBINSON Car and lorry horns giving their support to workers who would normally be inside the Remploy factory here on this industrial estate on the Wirral, this time they're out, they're on strike, they're on a picket line here. VOX POPS Nobody wanted to go on strike, everybody at the central cutting unit had a big long think before they went on strike, we've got no option but to go on strike. We're getting forced out of our factory. Well we think it's personal - the company want us out the way. We've made a lot of noise over this, over the closure, we've really fought back and the company don't want us, wants to take us out of the equation, the rest of the factory it'll all roll over - there won't be a Remploy factory left within two years. I'm on strike with me colleagues here because we're disgusted the way we've been treated, we're fighting to try and save our jobs and keep the central cutting units open because it is profitable and the company and the government know it's profitable but they're just closing the doors on it all. ROBINSON It's a cold windy damp morning, a scene redolent of the industrial strife of the '80s - the placards, the banners, the fire burning in an old oil drum. This Birkenhead unit is one of 28 Remploy factories facing closure or merger. Remploy has guaranteed to keep all the affected employees in work and says that in five years time it'll be finding 20,000 jobs a year for disabled people in mainstream employment. The trade union consortium backing the strikers, including GMB and Unite argue that target is unrealistic. Les Woodward is one of their spokespeople. WOODWARD We can't see Remploy achieving anywhere near those targets to be honest with you. ROBINSON Why do you say that? WOODWARD Because there are not the jobs out there. If you look at last year in County Durham there was somewhere in the region of 150-160,000 people claiming benefit and there was only sort of 40 or 50,000 jobs, so the figures just don't stack up. ROBINSON The union's own proposals to keep the threatened factories open were rejected by the Remploy board. And the company stands by its plans. They argue that spending the government's subsidy of £555 million on Remploy staff, who represent just 0.1% of the disabled people of working age, is not an effective use of public money. Remploy's chief executive is Bob Warner. WARNER We found jobs last year for 5,000 disabled people in mainstream employment and they have exactly the same range of disabilities as the people in our factories. So I'm absolutely confident that we can find jobs in mainstream employment for those people in the factories because we do it - they're no different. The only difference is they've worked for us for a long time and it'll take time for their confidence to be built up to work in the mainstream employment and that's what I find particularly disappointing about the trades unions constantly telling our employees what they can't do. ROBINSON Large disability charities, such as MENCAP, MIND and the RNID, support Remploy's view that disabled people ought to have jobs with normal companies, rather than ones in a sheltered factory. Liz Sayce, the chief executive of the disability organisation RADAR, agrees. SAYCE Disabled people don't want to be channelled into a particular type of employment just because you're disabled. I think David Blunkett famously said: I was offered an inviting career as a piano tuner. But it wasn't what he wanted. Now not everybody's going to be a secretary of state but people want opportunities to train for and get the sorts of jobs that are around in our economy. And increasingly that's not manufacturing, it's a whole range of other things - service delivery, retail, office work, finance work and so on. ROBINSON Just the sort of jobs Remploy wants to find for its employees. The company's methods get the thumbs up from the employers forum on disability and its head Susan Scott-Parker. SCOTT-PARKER They're focused on making sure that they're meeting the needs of the individual and their aspirations and their skills and the needs of the employer. It's the quality of the job match that's so crucial here. And after all it is the employer who needs to say if the person's going to get the job. So from our conversations with Remploy I'm confident they're doing their very best to make sure that they're asking the employer what they want, asking the person what they want and getting the right people in the right place at the right time. ROBINSON But none of this cuts any ice with the striking workers on this picket line outside their threatened factory in Birkenhead, which is due to close in the next couple of months. Tony Pepper and Jean Coventry argue that many of their colleagues couldn't work and fit in anywhere else. PEPPER People get an impression of a sheltered factory that they're making a baskets or something, they're not, everyone of them's here and they're living with support from the government, it is from the government and we appreciate that support. These people have tried outside industry, most of them have failed in outside industry, outside industry's failed them. COVENTRY I think outside industry don't understand that when you've got disabilities there are lots of times when you've got to go to hospital, doctors, blood tests. Outside industry won't put up with you going out all the time for appointments like that, it's just very difficult. People keep saying like the Disability Discrimination Act makes a big difference, it doesn't, we're still discriminated against. WOODWARD When you're employed outside you are at the mercy of a very, very non politically correct world. ROBINSON Les Woodward of the GMB trade union claims that some of his members, including those with learning difficulties, simply would not survive in mainstream employment. WOODWARD If they went to work with other people who didn't know them they would have the Mickey taken out of them and we've seen it so many times. ROBINSON As far as the bit world of business is concerned Liz Sayce, from Radar, concedes that there's still some way to go to convince some employers in proactively welcoming disabled workers. But she argues they can be integrated successfully. SAYCE I mean I used to line manage somebody, for example, who because of mental health reasons couldn't travel in the rush hour, just could not commute. The adjustment was simply to change the hours of the shift that he worked, he came in later and he worked later. He still did the same job, did the same amount of work, excellent at his job. The more employers have that experience and then they see - ah yes it's not so difficult - the more that gradually practices and attitudes change. There are some absolutely exemplary employers who really are doing that. But for those who won't try, who really do carry on discriminating, we do have legislation. ROBINSON RADAR's support of Remploy's proposals is on the condition that workers are not compulsorily redundant and that they're found new jobs on the same terms and conditions. Remploy chief executive Bob Warner. WARNER We've got on our books three jobs for every disabled person in the factories that are closing. So we've got employers, we're working with, we know those jobs are there, they're the suitable sort of jobs for the people with the skills in the factories, they're within 12 miles of the current location and we're just going to work with people and help them into those jobs. ROBINSON Sure, so that would apply to people such as like those I met on the picket line? WARNER Absolutely, we've placed 200 disabled people into work in Liverpool so far this year and I think we're talking around 40 people in that factory at Birkenhead and they can move to the factory down the road if they so wish. SCOTT-PARKER Day after day they help hundreds and hundreds of disabled people to find jobs, people that are so often written off because we make assumptions about what they can do. What I see with Remploy as they work with some of our members is a determination to prove that you don't make assumptions about people on the basis of their label, you look at each individual, you look at each job opportunity and you try to make the best match possible for both the person and the employer. ROBINSON Meanwhile feelings amongst Remploy staff are running high and there is considerable bitterness towards the management. So what would you say to Bob Warner then, the chief executive of Remploy? PEPPER Well there's not a lot I would say to the man. He needs to go back to the drawing board again. We're people who've got the knowledge about the units, not just listen to the pound signs, think about it logically and look at what he's doing to these people's lives. WARNER I know the difficulty for the people in our factories because it represents change but it is the right change to make. The disability world wants us to move to more people in mainstream employment and away from segregated employment. That means change for the people in the factories but it's the right ethos. WHITE Bob Warner ending that report from Stuart Robinson on Remploy's closures. Back to the Transcripts homepage Back to the You and Yours homepage The 麻豆约拍 is not responsible for external websites

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