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	TX: 07.02.08 - Disabled School Sports PRESENTER: LIZ BARCLAY

	Downloaded from www.bbc.co.uk/radio4 THE ATTACHED TRANSCRIPT WAS TYPED FROM A RECORDING AND NOT COPIED FROM AN ORIGINAL SCRIPT. BECAUSE OF THE RISK OF MISHEARING AND THE DIFFICULTY IN SOME CASES OF IDENTIFYING INDIVIDUAL SPEAKERS, THE 麻豆约拍 CANNOT VOUCH FOR ITS COMPLETE ACCURACY. BARCLAY Now you may remember Gordon Brown launched the UK's School Games, back in 2006, the so-called School Olympics. The aim was to prepare young people for London 2012. But competitions for children with learning disabilities weren't included because the School Games were modelled on the Olympics and Paralympics. The International Paralympic Committee dropped events for learning disabled athletes after the Sidney Games in 2000 because 10 members of the Gold Medal winning Spanish basketball team weren't learning disabled at all. Now the organisers of the UK School Games have relented. Twelve-year-old Jack Thomas, a talented young swimmer who holds four national records for his age group, is one of those now hoping to appear in the UK School Games. He gets up at half past five every morning, four mornings a week, to train and is back there in the evening. And his mum and dad, Wendy and Mark, run a disabled swimming club. Gilbert John went to meet the family during a training session at the Welsh National Pool in Swansea. ACTUALITY AT THE POOL Okay Jack, if you carry on with you warm up now. Swim to the end yeah. Dive? Yeah. WENDY THOMAS I heard the announcement that they were launching the UK Schools Games and I felt very excited with the thought that Jack could possibly compete there. When I found out that they were going in line with the IPC ban, which is banning all learning disabled athletes, I was absolutely devastated. I went to the UK Schools Games myself last year as an escort for a little girl with cerebral palsy and I had to leave Jack at home with his grandma, so he didn't actually get to go. GILBERT How important is swimming in that sort of competition for Jack and his future ambition? WENDY THOMAS Well it's a very major competition in the sports calendar, especially for students at comprehensive level and for him to have shone at a big competition would have meant the world to him. It is extremely unfair - one country cheated but the whole world was penalised. GILBERT So the future now - you've still got to get the International Paralympic Committee to allow them to compete again? WENDY THOMAS Yes the fight goes on. Getting the learning disabled athletes back into the UK Schools Games was just the start of a very, very long fight that's been going on since 2000. So onwards and upwards, it can only get better. ACTUALITY AT THE POOL One minute. Good breast stroke, yeah, your head position's a little bit too wide, adjust your eye line a little bit lower. Okay? And keep your head fixed, okay? Yeah. MARK THOMAS We put him in the water when he was three years old to help his coordination, his confidence and his enthusiasm for swimming has grown as he's got older and he's on the fringe of becoming a world class swimmer for his category, S14s. GILBERT You train the Paralympic team, or one of the trainers for the Paralympic team, and your own son would have been barred from it because of this ban and it must be very frustrating. MARK THOMAS Yeah, it's frustrating but you know we've had to make a lot of changes to the testing system to try and get the IPC to accept them back in. GILBERT Well now Jack has joined me on the pool side and Jack how many lengths today? JACK THOMAS About 200 lengths today. GILBERT That's incredible. I could just about probably manage half a width, you know that don't you. JACK THOMAS Yeah. GILBERT So what about the future? JACK THOMAS I have to go really fast, work hard and hopefully my work will pay off [indistinct words] S14s are allowed back in. GILBERT It must have been upsetting for you when you weren't able to enter were you? JACK THOMAS No I weren't able to enter. GILBERT What did you feel about that? JACK THOMAS Really bad, not really happy. GILBERT Because obviously do you feel you could do as well as some of those in the water? JACK THOMAS Yeah. GILBERT Beat some of them? JACK THOMAS Maybe, I don't know - not yet, maybe in the future. GILBERT And for that future now, you've got the okay to go into the championships, you'll be there hopefully? JACK THOMAS Yeah hopefully, yeah. GILBERT How do you get selected for that? JACK THOMAS I've got to achieve times and if you got the times then you can be able to qualify for the event. GILBERT And what's the fastest you've done? JACK THOMAS For 50 metres I do 32 seconds. GILBERT That's not bad is it. Mum, you must be very proud of him. WENDY THOMAS I am very proud of him, he's amazing, he's a really talented little athlete and he really works hard, I've sat watching him training and he'll be crying swimming up and down the pool because he's pushing himself so hard and it breaks my heart but I'm so proud of him. BARCLAY And we all wish Jack well. Tracey McCillen is the national director of the UK Sports Association for People with Learning Disability and Liz Sayce is a member of the disability committee of the Equality and Human Rights Commission. Liz, do you think this decision by the UK Schools Games will increase pressure to include learning disabled athletes in the Paralympics? SAYCE I think it will because I think it was clear to us at the Equality and Human Rights Commission that this exclusion was unlawful and I think this is the first big step towards overturning the exclusion of the International Paralympic Committee. The pressure will be kept up, there's lots of organisations, voluntary sector organisations - MENCAP, RADAR and others - campaigning, so I think this will happen. BARCLAY Tracey McCillen, the International Paralympic Committee sent us a statement that says it supports the participation of athletes with intellectual disability but how do you prove that an athlete has a learning disability? MCCILLEN Well it's quite a lengthy process and a very robust process. What we look at is a determination of an IQ - so that's 75 or less. Looking at significant limitations and adaptive behaviour and that's looking at cognitive functions on a day-to-day basis. And also the disability must be evident during the developmental years, so 0-18. And in order to prove all of that there are a number of psychologists, coaches and other professionals involved submitting evidence. BARCLAY Well the London 2012 organisers say it's not their role to lead the debate over whether learning disabled adults should take part in the Paralympics. They - would you like to see the organisers of the London 2012 Olympics putting more pressure on the International Paralympics Committee to include them? MCCILLEN Absolutely, I mean the organisers call this an inclusive games, they want to leave a lasting legacy - not just in the UK but around the world - and I don't think we can underestimate the influence that 2012 can have on the Paralympic Committee in reversing this decision. BARCLAY Liz Sayce, could the Disability Discrimination Act be used to force London 2012 to include athletes with learning disabilities? SAYCE We hope, of course, that the exclusion of athletes with learning disabilities will just be overturned without needing to use legislation, as has happened in this stage one with the UK School Games. But I think the commission will certainly be looking at the potential use of the Disability Discrimination Act. When the games, if you like, get handed over from Beijing - over to London - over to the UK, at that point domestic law like the Disability Discrimination Act may apply. And we'd certainly - we will use all our powers of persuasion but if necessary we will use the power of the law. BARCLAY Would that include taking the organisers of 2012 to law if necessary? SAYCE Well we want to work collaboratively with people and we think we'll be able to find successful resolutions but if it comes to it we will certainly consider using the power of the law, yes. BARCLAY Tracey, learning disabled athletes can take part in the International Special Olympics, so why is it so important that they also compete in the Paralympics? MCCILLEN It's two very different movements. Special Olympics is very much about participation, it's about getting involved in the associated benefits with that, they have a series of medals from the first place down to the last place and it's a banded competition. [Indistinct words] competition is performance led, it's about training to be the best and winning. And there are three medals - gold, silver and bronze. So very different movements - they can work together and they have done and they should continue to do so, it doesn't have to be one or the other. BARCLAY Well thank you both very much for joining us. And the intellectual disability events will be re-evaluated following the Beijing 2008 Paralympics. Back to the Transcripts homepage Back to the You and Yours homepage The 麻豆约拍 is not responsible for external websites

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