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	WOMAN'S HOUR TX: 10 JAN 2008 Care 麻豆约拍s

	Downloaded from www.bbc.co.uk/radio4 THE ATTACHED TRANSCRIPT WAS TYPED FROM A RECORDING AND NOT COPIED FROM AN ORIGINAL SCRIPT. BECAUSE OF THE RISK OF MISHEARING AND THE DIFFICULTY IN SOME CASES OF IDENTIFYING INDIVIDUAL SPEAKERS, THE 麻豆约拍 CANNOT VOUCH FOR ITS COMPLETE ACCURACY. TX: 10.01.08 - Care 麻豆约拍s PRESENTER: JENNI MURRAY MURRAY Amanda Waring is the daughter of Dame Dorothy Tutin, one of the finest British actresses of the 20th Century, she died in 2001. Amanda was so shocked by the cavalier manner in which her mother was treated in hospital she sold her own flat to raise the money to make a short film with her mother's friend Virginia McKenna. Virginia plays a woman being cared for in hospital and speaks the words of a poem written in the 1960s by Phyllis McCormack, a nurse who worked with elderly patients. MCKENNA I'm an old woman now. Nature is cruel. Tis a jest to make old age look like a fool. The body it crumbles. Grace and wither depart. But inside this old carcass a young girl still dwells. And now and again my battered heart swells. I remember the joy. I remember the pain. And I'm loving and living life over again. I think of the years, all confused. Gone too far. And accept the stark fact that nothing can last. So open your eyes nurses, open and see, not a crabbit old woman, look closer, see me. MURRAY Well Amanda and Virginia are now working on two more films looking at what goes on in residential and nursing homes. As part of our social care season I'm joined by Annie Stevenson, senior policy advisor for Help the Aged and by Amanda Waring. Amanda, what was it particularly that shocked you about your mother's treatment? WARING I think it was the lack of compassion and human interaction. The nurses would hardly make eye contact with mum, they wouldn't address her by her name. I saw so many elder people ignored and treated rudely and to see the effect on mum's spirit with her recovery was phenomenal, I mean it went right down. And I thought you can have good - good medical practice but without adequate good emotional care then the healing is impaired definitely. MURRAY So why the film, what did you hope the film would achieve? WARING I wanted to make a film that had a sort of 10 minute impact that would engage the heart and the emotions because once that's engaged then change can take place, once you empathise, understand, with the person's personal story then you can say I understand that, okay what can we do to change it. It's about changing society's attitude as well as carers and people that work but in general society's attitudes to older people. MURRAY Annie, why is there such a failure I mean what Amanda describes it as simple humanity in so many of these situations? STEVENSON Well we have the means to prolong life now but of course we can't live forever and of course Amanda's absolutely right - as a society we are ambivalent about old age and death because that's what we haven't cracked frankly, there's more older people and we're living longer and we've got this real conundrum because we're terrified of death. And I think that's one of the key problems because that elicits fear, people fear now both old age and death when frankly I don't believe they should. And that leads to denial, contempt, fear leads to contempt and ultimately dehumanisation. And these are the enemies of dignity and can lead to abuse. MURRAY But it seems so simple - you know you go into some places where old people are being cared for and the nursing staff are so wonderful and they engage with the old person, they talk to them about the photographs that they've got around them and then in other situations you get what happened to Amanda - why is everyone not trained in the same way? STEVENSON Well Jenni we mustn't underestimate the attitudes and fear, they lie very deep in our collective unconscious if you like, so we're going to have to - it's a huge challenge to get over that coupled with the culture of our care services which has become very dehumanised, in the sense it's the pressure on staff is to tick boxes, performance indicators - all the sort of areas that are not the touchy feely parts if you like. The pressures on them are huge and also we don't value - because we don't value older people we're not valuing care, we're not valuing people who work in the care homes. So how are you going to expect them to be working at their best if you're not treating the staff, those closest to the residents, as the human beings that they are. WARING And it has to be led from the top doesn't it as well, management has to say this is as important as good practice and it doesn't cost any money, that's the brilliant thing about re-humanising people, if you like, having that compassion is it's a trigger, it's a trigger switch which we can't go beneath. That's what I'm hoping I can inspire people to realise, to do. And with the trainings and there are fantastic trainings going out there, the Eden principles are fantastic, they are going into care homes and alleviating the three plagues of old age, which they say are loneliness, boredom and helplessness and that's also - and there's no reciprocity between the carer and the person that they're looking after, it's a two way - it's about connections between the two. STEVENSON Yes but money does help and there isn't enough money in the system either and that's because we're not ... WARING But there is, it needs to be squeezed out and looked at so strongly. MURRAY But the problem - I mean as Annie says - money is a problem, money is a problem because often in these places there aren't enough staff to really spend the time to do what you're asking them to do, is that what you've found when you've been making your films in the care homes? WARING I think - I think that is a problem definitely but again it only takes one second to look someone in the eye, or touch them on the hand or to say the correct name that they liked to be called by, they're small things that make a big difference to someone's life. And when you're in a care home and your world is five foot around your bed everything that's brought into that is so important, you are a world maker when you are a carer and sometimes that's not looked at. And we have to value the carers that are part of this hugely and finances need to be looked at. But again I still feel it's about valuing the fact that we're all individuals, no matter what age we are. MURRAY So what good practice have you come across in looking at the new films? WARING Oh well there are some superb care homes that are out there that are really implementing these strategies and I'm so delighted. And I get lots of e-mails and letters from people who've been using the film as well as part of their trainings. So I'm very encouraged, there is a movement - we're talking about it, I want to push something forward where there is much more debate and humour and let's laugh - you know older people have the most fantastic sense of humour as well in these situations talking about death, much more than we have perhaps, before we get older we're so frightened. Let's communicate with each other and spark up the connections and let the carers know that they can connect and then learn how to disconnect so that they aren't actually kind of bled dry. MURRAY What's required, Annie, from a political point of view because in the past it was always assumed that daughters, spinsters in the family, would take care of the elderly? I mean Amanda cared for her parents but that's become increasingly rarer, what do we need politically? STEVENSON Well because the problem is systemic actually, it's going from these poor attitudes but the system is creaking., we have a huge problem. And the good news here is that I believe 2008 is our opportunity to put this right. The government are creating a green paper, which we all need to participate, this is really the first opportunity we've had since the Royal Commission, we haven't solved the problem of how we fund and provide quality long term care in this country. It's because we're in denial about old age and we've got to stop worrying about it, look and plan. But politically there's an opportunity for us all to engage in a public debate about how we want to live our old age. And the reality is we want to be treated well in our old age and live life to the full because it's possible to do that with attitude change but also we've got to put our hands in our pockets and we have to find a way of paying for it, whether it's through taxation or private means - insurance schemes - whatever but if we want to stop these awful stories that we're reading and we must stop frightening ourselves to death, I think the media has a big part to play in this as well. MURRAY But Annie, I mean if the media finds care homes and hospitals where elderly people are not being fed, they're not being cleaned properly surely it's their job to highlight these things? STEVENSON Of course. But their job is also to ask the questions why - why is this happening in the 21st Century and what are the solutions and what are we going to do as a society to address them. And the green paper it really is an opportunity, we've got to get behind it, we got to get involved and we've got to tackle difficult issues that make us worried, we've got to get over that and stop worrying about what we think - look like. Age and ageing - its beauty is beneath, it's what lies beneath us that's important and Amanda's right. MURRAY So Amanda what plans have you made for your old age having had the experiences that you've had? WARING I've actually talked with some very dear girlfriends of mine, I think you had a similar idea of sort of joining together and living together in a community because I think what we crave for is community and that's what's missing on the global scale, or particularly on our shores, is that sense of community. And also I think that the positive news it's really important - every time there is something negative - you know with the film I'm trying not to attack anyone in particular, I'm just saying there's another way of doing this, let's remind ourselves. But also to say but there are these positive schemes out there, there are people doing really good work. So let's provide solutions rather than, as you say, this cascade of doom and gloom which demoralises us basically. MURRAY And Annie what plan have you made? STEVENSON Well I - similar plans actually but what I'm putting most of my energy - I want to plan for being with my pals in the community, I don't want to be on my own frankly in my old age, I want to be with my pals. But I want - what I'm working on really hard at the moment at Help the Aged is My 麻豆约拍 Life, which is - well the title says it all - it's about quality of life in care homes, it's my home life, it's the residents' life and it's their views about quality of life, it's like a movement - we're kick starting a movement that values those at the end of their lives as individuals, as much as anybody else, their value and worth should not be diminished just because they're in a care home. So join us on www.myhomelife.org and you'll see that care homes are being valued and you'll see good practice examples and Amanda's been helping us with that. MURRAY Annie Stevenson, Amanda Waring thank you both very much, you very cleverly snuck that e-mail address in there. We'll ask people to get in touch with the Woman's House website because we'd like to hear your ideas, we'd like to hear your opinions and we'd also like to hear what you'd like us to put to the minister at the end of this care month that we have on Radio 4. Back to the Transcripts homepage Back to the You and Yours homepage The 麻豆约拍 is not responsible for external websites

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