麻豆约拍

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19th November 2024

bbc.co.uk/accessall

Access All 鈥� episode 134

Presented by Emma Tracey

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EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Party season is nearly upon us, and I have started to buy clothes online, try them on, not like them and send them back. And that鈥檚 what everybody does, right? It鈥檚 what everybody does. But me as a blind woman I feel like if I try to buy clothes online even the best description of a jumpsuit or a dress or a top is just not enough. I can鈥檛 get enough information from it to know whether it鈥檚 going to fit me properly, what the texture is really like, how it goes with my skin tone. I can鈥檛 do those apps where you can take a picture of yourself and put the clothes on; that doesn鈥檛 work for me. You see this is the thing, I need a robot. I don鈥檛 have a robot to sit there and do all this for me. And then you get the clothes, you try them on, they鈥檙e all wrong, and then you have to send them back which means, like, printing labels and barcodes and taping them up, and then getting them to the Post Office. Like, my nearest Post Office now is probably five miles away. It鈥檚 absolutely a nightmare.

I鈥檇 love to go clothes shopping, I鈥檇 love to spend lots and lots of time in the shops but again, I really need somebody to come with me for that. and I just don鈥檛 have somebody wandering around behind me every minute of my life to be my shopping buddy. So, I do do it and I have a great family and I have great support, but I鈥檓 actually finding it very stressful. So, if I am wearing something that looks absolutely ridiculous on me on the way up to Christmas this year it鈥檚 been really hard work, I鈥檝e put the work in and, I don鈥檛 know, I鈥檝e got a bed full of clothes that I need to send back and no idea how I鈥檓 going to do it. Pff. On with the show!

MUSIC-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Theme music.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Hello. This is Access All, the 麻豆约拍鈥檚 weekly disability and mental health podcast, and I鈥檓 Emma Tracey. And just like I had when I was reliving my late 鈥�90s youth at the Corrs concert in Glasgow at the weekend, you have the best seats in the house when it comes to disability and mental health news and chat.

听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 This time, as the COVID inquiry continues we meet some disabled people whose lives have been forever changed by the pandemic. And People Fixing the World, our sister podcast, we鈥檝e been tuning into that too, and we鈥檝e got reporter Ben Morris with us to talk about some wheelchair wizardry. It鈥檚 all about artificial intelligence.

听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Get in touch with us. We鈥檙e on your socials @麻豆约拍AccessAll. And you can email accessall@bbc.co.uk. And if you haven鈥檛 already or if you鈥檙e listening on 5 Live go into 麻豆约拍 Sounds, hit that big subscribe button, and you鈥檒l get us every week without having to do another thing.

听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Disabled people and those who support them have been front and centre in the COVID inquiry in the past few weeks. Nearly six out of 10 of the people who died of coronavirus in England between January and November 2020 were disabled. And people with learning disabilities were six times more likely to die of the virus than the general population. This inquiry aims to look into how the pandemic was handled and what can be learned from it. This third phase of hearings is dedicated to the impact on the healthcare systems in the UK. On the line to tell their stories about how their lives have been forever changed by the COVID pandemic are Rachael Andrews in Norfolk, who鈥檚 visually impaired, and Lisa Burke in Wales whose son, Seth, has Duchenne muscular dystrophy. Hi, Lisa. Hi, Rachel.

LISA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Hello.

RACHAEL-听听听听听听听听 Hiya.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 It鈥檚 lovely to have you on Access All. But first, 麻豆约拍 health reporter Jim Reed joins me. Now, Jim鈥檚 been following the COVID inquiry from the beginning. He presents the COVID Inquiry podcast on 麻豆约拍 Sounds, and he鈥檚 here to tell us more about this phase 3 and how it relates to disability. Hi, Jim.

JIM-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Hi, Emma.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 It鈥檚 a bit of a tricky job you鈥檝e got at the moment. I鈥檓 sure there鈥檚 lots of difficult things coming out of this phase. What is the purpose of the inquiry first of all?

JIM-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 The first thing to say is this inquiry is incredibly wide-ranging. So, whereas other countries have sort of run their inquiries into the pandemic in literally just a couple of months, this is a full-on full public inquiry. It started really getting going last year and will run probably into 2027, so it鈥檚 a huge undertaking. Because it鈥檚 so wide-ranging, and you hinted at this at the start, it鈥檚 split into ten different sections. So, we鈥檙e currently on section 3, and this one looks just at the impact on healthcare and the NHS. It鈥檚 been running since the start of September and it wraps up next week, so it鈥檚 ten weeks of hearings just on that subject.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 And Jim, what have you been hearing from a disability point of view? What have disabled people been saying in this phase?

JIM-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Previous parts of this inquiry have looked at things like the planning for a pandemic, the big political decisions made in COVID, lockdown and so on. And I have heard from organisations like Disability Rights UK, we鈥檝e heard some expert evidence from academics looking at the impact on people with disabilities. I think what鈥檚 different this autumn is they鈥檝e been running what they call impact testimonies. So, this is literally hearing direct evidence from individuals who were affected. And within that we鈥檝e already heard some very powerful testimony from people with disabilities and their relatives.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 And you heard particularly recently from someone who鈥檚 deaf.

JIM-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 That鈥檚 right. So, we鈥檝e heard from, for example, a woman called Dr Sarah Powell. She鈥檚 a clinical psychologist. She was the first person to give evidence through a BSL interpreter. And she was talking about her experience as a deaf person in COVID and also her husband who鈥檚 deaf as well, and he was very seriously ill after catching the virus. This clip here is her talking through a sign language interpreter about the communication difficulties she had when her husband was taken very seriously ill one evening:

[CLIP]

SARAH-听听听听听听听听听听听听听 My husband couldn鈥檛 breathe and he was having to really struggle with breathing. The communication was nowhere. I had to again wake up my son. So, I woke up my son鈥� Sorry, it鈥檚 difficult because for the first time I had to use my son for communication. I鈥檓 adamant I don鈥檛 want to use my children for my communication needs but I could not communicate with paramedics or the doctor, we couldn鈥檛 write things down to explain what was happening. There was no time. It was an absolute emergency. It was life or death, my husband couldn鈥檛 breathe. So, I had to use my son for communication. And I don鈥檛 know what it was like for him; I can only imagine. To see his father in this state, the ambulance, the doctor.

MALE-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Take a breath, Dr Powell, take a breath.

[End of clip]

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Gosh, that is hard to listen to, Jim. Now, what other disability related subjects have come up?

JIM-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 So, we heard evidence from a man called John Sullivan at one point. He gave very powerful testimony about his daughter, Susie, who had Down鈥檚 Syndrome. And she died very early on in the pandemic. She was admitted to hospital, she deteriorated in hospital, but she was not then escalated up to intensive care. And in her medical notes it actually said, 鈥榠ntensive care declined in view of Down鈥檚 Syndrome and cardiac comorbidities鈥� so other heart problems that she had. And that鈥檚 been a concern that鈥檚 been raised by Mencap and some autism charities as well.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Okay. So, she wasn鈥檛 sent into intensive care because she had Down鈥檚 Syndrome?

JIM-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 That鈥檚 what was in her medical records, and that鈥檚 what not just her family have been saying, the many other people with learning disabilities at the time and other disabilities say that some disabled people were effectively written off and not given the chance of lifesaving treatment that maybe other patients were given. Now, NHS England have consistently said, look there wasn鈥檛 a national policy on this. But I guess the question that the inquiry is going to have to answer is did policies like that exist in a less formal way at local hospitals? Because they were under so much pressure, Emma, that they were having to make decisions on the hoof, and some of those decisions may have been made very quickly and may have not been made correctly, I think is the allegation here.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Jim, will you stay with us? Because we鈥檝e got a couple of people on the line who are going to tell us their stories about how their lives have been changed by the COVID pandemic. We鈥檝e got Rachael. Hi, Rachael.

RACHAEL-听听听听听听听听 Hi, hello.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 And Rachael, you鈥檙e visually impaired and you鈥檝e got fibromyalgia, so you live with chronic pain. You鈥檝e been listening to Jim talking there, does what he said chime with you?

RACHAEL-听听听听听听听听 Yes, it does. I have fibromyalgia, as you say; I am also severely sight impaired. And one of the symptoms of fibromyalgia is something called allodynia where you have nerve pain that doesn鈥檛 really correspond with any injury or anything like that. I had a very painful patch on my thigh and I described is as if I were being attacked with a red hot cheese grater; which sounds extreme but that鈥檚 true. I鈥檓 fairly used to pain because I have fibromyalgia so that鈥檚 not my first fear there, but that was rolling on the floor painful. And I鈥檇 been waiting for this treatment. They called up during the pandemic and said, 鈥榃e鈥檝e got a slot for you at the local hospital, but you can鈥檛 use public transport, you can鈥檛 use a taxi to get there because you need to isolate鈥�. So, I said, 鈥榃ell the only way I can get there is via the help of my PA鈥� because I have a sighted PA who will come and take me to places that I don鈥檛 already go with my guide dog. And they said, 鈥極kay, well you need to self-isolate for three days and she also needs to self-isolate for three days鈥�. And I said, 鈥楳y PA doesn鈥檛 only work for me, she works for many other people with care needs as well because she comes from an agency. So, we cannot self-isolate, that isn鈥檛 going to happen鈥�. So, in the end they said, 鈥榃ell, as you cannot self-isolate and the person that you need to come with you, your carer can鈥檛 self-isolate, you can鈥檛 have the treatment鈥�. So, that was the end of that.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Right. So, you didn鈥檛 get treatment that you needed, and you had the feeling of a red hot cheese grater on your thigh because of the needs you had in relation to your impairments?

RACHAEL-听听听听听听听听 Yeah, basically. Because I needed a carer or a PA to take me, which is not unique in that many disabled people do, that was it, no treatment for me.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Now, we鈥檝e also got Lisa Burke from Wales. Hi, Lisa.

LISA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 HI there.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 And you鈥檙e Seth鈥檚 mum, and Seth has Duchenne muscular dystrophy which is a muscle wasting life-limiting condition. And Seth鈥檚 a teenager. And you guys were massively impacted by the pandemic, weren鈥檛 you?

LISA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Our first stumbling block was that Seth, who was still fully ambulant at the start of the pandemic, had a simple, small fall, which unfortunately resulted in a small fracture in one of his ankles. So, unfortunately due to the pandemic we weren鈥檛 able to access any of the rehabilitative services that he would normally be able to access, which would have obviously included things like hydrotherapy, physiotherapy to have allowed him to keep mobile and learn to weight bear again to actually keep him walking. We weren鈥檛 able to see any of the specialists that we would normally have been able to see. And the advice that we were given was to non-weight bear, which was unfortunately the wrong advice as it turns out.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Oh right. So, what did that lead to then?

LISA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Well, after six weeks of being advised not to weight bear he was in a cast. He has subsequently not been able to regain the ability to walk and is now a full-time powerchair user, and also cannot even weight bear anymore as his muscles had sort of wasted away.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Right. So, you blame that kind of speeding up of the wasting of the muscles and of him becoming a powerchair user on not getting the access to the services he needed. But you鈥檝e also had to move house, is that right?

LISA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Yes. Because he unfortunately came off his feet so suddenly, it鈥檚 normally a much slower experience, you have a bit more notice, we had to sell our home during the pandemic 鈥� I don鈥檛 recommend trying to sell and buy a new home during a pandemic 鈥� and find somewhere that was fully wheelchair accessible as we couldn鈥檛 adapt the property that we were in. So, that went from us being mortgage free and leading a sort of relatively normal, standard life to suddenly having to uproot and having a huge mortgage and moving away from where we used to live.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 What does Seth think of it all? What impact has it had on him?

LISA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 He鈥檚 a fairly typical teenager, so he鈥檚 a man of few words, to try and drag him away from his gaming to get him to talk about it. But I know he does feel sort of forgotten, I think is the word I would use, and it鈥檚 certainly the word that he鈥檚 used for us previously. He felt sort of low priority, if that makes sense.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Well, you did actually manage to drag him away from his gaming and get some words out of Seth. Let鈥檚 hear him:

[Clip]

LISA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 So, Seth, how did you feel about your care during lockdown?

SETH-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 During lockdown I thought I was quite overlooked. Didn鈥檛 get the care I really needed and it was quite upsetting really.

[End of clip]

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Oh bless him. You can actually hear the emotion in Seth鈥檚 voice there. Have you been following the inquiry, Lisa? And do you think that carers are listened to more now than they were during the pandemic?

LISA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah, I have been following the inquiry with interest, as I said, particularly as it directly impacted us and lots of other people I know in the communities that I circulate in. I think a big part of what I would like to see is, because we know probably the likelihood of there being another pandemic at some point is fairly high, I would like to see what the recommendations are to actually forward plan.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Okay, so have a plan basically.

LISA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 And Rachael, have you been following the inquiry? And if so, what are your hopes for what can come out of it?

RACHAEL-听听听听听听听听 Yeah I think, as Lisa said, a plan, because vulnerable people, disabled people, we do exist in the world. And I think our voices need to be heard, our advice, our lived experience, the things that we can offer, we鈥檝e a wealth and breadth of information as to how we need care and how systems need to work for us, and there needs to be more communication with people with disabilities and more planning for us. That鈥檚 just the end of it. That鈥檚 as simple as you can say.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Jim, you鈥檝e been listening to Rachel and Lisa, are their stories familiar to you? Does that chime with what you鈥檝e been hearing?

JIM-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah, there are a couple of really important themes there that I think we have explored a lot in this inquiry. So, one is the impact of those visiting restrictions on people with disabilities. We鈥檝e heard more examples in the inquiry of people for example with learning disabilities who couldn鈥檛 have someone with them to explain what was going on. People who were deaf, were blind that couldn鈥檛 have carers and support workers there to explain what was happening to them when they might have had to have been put, for example, on to a ventilator with COVID. And I don鈥檛 think 鈥� and I think this came out in the conversations you just had with them, Emma 鈥� I don鈥檛 think those kinds of things were properly explained or properly planned for before the pandemic. And I think that鈥檚 one thing they鈥檙e going to be looking at in a lot of detail when they draw up the recommendations and findings in this part of the inquiry.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 And the hearings end next week in this phase. What happens then?

JIM-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah, this is where it gets even more complicated I鈥檓 afraid. So, the ten sections of this inquiry are being run concurrently. So, what happens is Baroness Hallett, who鈥檚 the chair of this inquiry, and the rest of the team listen to all this evidence, they have done in this section for ten weeks; then they go away and they draw up a report with a set of recommendations for the government. Now, the government can either accept or reject those recommendations. It does take an awful lot of time though, so I would not expect to hear those findings probably until the spring of 2026.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 And Jim, you present the COVID inquiry podcast on 麻豆约拍 Sounds, as I said at the start. When is that on?

JIM-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 The COVID Inquiry podcast comes out every Saturday morning on 麻豆约拍 Sounds. You can hear a wrap-up of all the evidence at the inquiry from the previous week.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Thank you Jim Reed, and thank you to Rachel and Lisa as well. I鈥檓 sure you鈥檝e got stuff to say about this, listeners. If you have a story to tell, if you鈥檝e something else you want us to talk about around COVID and the COVID inquiry please do get in touch, accessall@bbc.co.uk.

MUSIC-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 [Electronic voice] People Fixing the World.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Ben Morris is with me. He鈥檚 a reporter on one of our sister podcasts, People Fixing the World, which is all about solutions. And hopefully Ben has all the answers for us today, all the solutions to all our problems. Do you, Ben?

BEN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Not all the solutions. I have one solution for you.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Okay. So, we鈥檙e going to be talking about artificial intelligence and how that might be able to help people to drive their wheelchairs more successfully. And Ben, you use a wheelchair and you鈥檙e a bit of a wheelchair nerd, is that right?

BEN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 How geeky are you?

BEN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 I鈥檓 on the level where I email developers of joysticks and say, 鈥業 think we can develop it this way and make it easier for people to use鈥�. And they鈥檙e like, 鈥楥ool. Do you want to test stuff out for us?鈥� and I鈥檓 like, 鈥榊eah, sure, why not? As long as I don鈥檛 crash鈥�.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Right. So, you use a powered wheelchair then obviously if you鈥檙e using a joystick?

BEN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Absolutely, yeah. I have spinal muscular atrophy, so I鈥檓 basically paralysed from the neck down and very limited movement, and roll around in an electric wheelchair running over everyone鈥檚 feet.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 So, you鈥檝e been recently looking into a pretty nerdy thing about how artificial intelligence can help some wheelchair users get around more easily. Tell me more.

BEN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 As many of your listeners will know not everyone can use a power wheelchair, whether that鈥檚 because of their physical limitations or whatever. But it鈥檚 a particular problem for people with severe cerebral palsy, and that鈥檚 just because of the uncontrollable movements that they experience on a day-to-day basis; they just can鈥檛 hold a joystick and the movements of the chair become sort of disjointed and very jerky and there鈥檚 just no control. Someone who this is a major issue for is 22 year-old Levi who lives in Flanders in West Belgium. The thing that we鈥檙e focusing on isn鈥檛 the wheelchair itself, but it鈥檚 more a series of wonderful devices that whack on the back of this thing and it鈥檚 all connected by sensored pads that go round his head and his feet. Now, this device picks up all of his unintentional movements and filters them out. So, as soon as he sits in the chair it sort of builds up a profile of him and how he functions basically.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 That鈥檚 really cool.

BEN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 I know.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 So, it鈥檚 learning all the time, so it鈥檚 just going to get better and better and better?

BEN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 All the time. But it鈥檚 really unique because when you turn it off and on it resets, so it鈥檚 going to forget what you did yesterday. It鈥檒l have a basic sort of knowledge of what the unintentional and intentional movements are, but if he鈥檚 having a particularly bad day where he鈥檚 stressed then it will pick up on that and, in theory, filter it all out.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 It sounds like a sort of magic, Ben?

BEN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Oh yeah, it really was. And it was just amazing to see him use the chair:

[Clip]

LEVI-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 I am steering with my head, and actually levitating using my foot.

BEN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Mate, honestly, you look so happy. You鈥檝e got the biggest smile on your face. Much happier than you were in your manual chair, I can just sense it.

[End of clip]

BEN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 The movements did become very, very fluid. It was almost like he was using a joystick. His posture was very relaxed, he didn鈥檛 seem stressed at all. But what I find absolutely amazing is that it can plug into the craziest of things, especially computer games and a games console.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 So I鈥檓 clear: he鈥檚 in his wheelchair?

BEN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah, and he鈥檚 got pads around the sides and back of his head. And then he鈥檚 got two pads that are under his feet that you need very minimal movement to use. They鈥檙e part of the AI device.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Okay. And then there鈥檚 like a box at the back of his chair which connects to those pads which learns the stuff, right?

BEN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Yes.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 And that connects to the motor of the wheelchair which moves it around?

BEN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Precisely, yeah.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 But you can plug that box out of the motor of the wheelchair and plug it into the computer console?

BEN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah, as long as the chair has infrared he can control the TV, he can control his computer, you name it. As long as there鈥檚 a wireless connection at the end of the day he can control it. Now, he and I play the very popular football game which, well, you鈥檒l see what happens:

[Clip]

BEN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Oh, no, no, no! Ah! [Laughter] That鈥檚 an incredible hit.

LEVI-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Woo!

BEN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 What did you think of my footballing skills?

LEVI-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 It was too short to tell.

BEN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Very diplomatic. Fair enough.

[End of clip]

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 [Laughs] I know the sounds of that computer game from my house. I mean, you know as well as I do, Ben Morris, that lots of people develop things for disabled people and the developers are non-disabled, and they look really amazing and whacky and great to non-disabled people and to some disabled people, but they鈥檙e far too expensive, they鈥檙e too complicated. Tell me, is this one of those? How much is it? How many people actually will it be able to help?

BEN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah. So, it鈥檚 10,000 euros, which is quite a lot. But there are roughly 3.5 million people around the world with severe CP who it could potentially help. At the moment they鈥檝e only sold about 100, but they鈥檙e looking to conquer the world with this device.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Tell me, if you could have AI on your chair, because your impairment is a bit different to Levi鈥檚, what would you have and what would it do?

BEN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 I would get it to just do all of my admin.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 [Laughs]

BEN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Honestly, the amount of admin in a disabled life is stupid. Just tell me where to go, what to do and I鈥檒l do it.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 I think you need a robot, Ben, not a little thing for the back of your chair, to be fair.

BEN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah, I do.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 And that鈥檚 not going to cost 10,000 euros.

BEN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 No.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 It鈥檚 probably going to cost a lot more than that.

BEN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 More like a million.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 For more stories about ingenuity and innovation like this one find People Fixing the World on 麻豆约拍 Sounds. Thanks, Ben.

BEN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Thanks for having me, Emma.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 That is it. Thanks to Ben Morris. I could do with an admin robot myself, maybe a robot dog with some admin skills, that would be awesome. And thanks to the rest of my guests, and thanks to you for listening. We love to hear from you. Please do get in touch. You can email accessall@bbc.co.uk, we鈥檙e on X and Instagram @麻豆约拍AccessAll, or you can send us a WhatsApp text or voice message, starting with the word Access, to 0330 123 9480. Thanks for listening. Bye.

[Trailer for People Fixing the World]

MUSIC-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 [Electronic voice] People Fixing the World.

MYRA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 People Fixing the World, brilliant solutions to the world鈥檚 problems.

FEMALE-听听听听听听听听听听听 All right, let鈥檚 do this!

MYRA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 We meet people with ideas to make the world a better place.

MALE-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Trying new things that they鈥檙e really passionate about.

MYRA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 And investigate whether they work.

MALE-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 The idea is you send in a robot where it鈥檚 unsafe to send another human being.

FEMALE-听听听听听听听听听听听 Wow, okay.

MYRA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 People Fixing the World, from the 麻豆约拍 World Service.

MALE-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Buckle up and get ready to ride.

MYRA-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Listen now wherever you get your 麻豆约拍 podcasts.

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