麻豆约拍

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11th June 2024

bbc.co.uk/accessall

Access All 鈥� episode 109

Presented by Emma Tracey

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EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Did you know that people have been able to vote in secret in the UK since 1872? That鈥檚 1872! And I, as a blind person, still can鈥檛 confidently cast my vote in secret. What on earth is going on? I actually really need to have a rant with somebody about this so I鈥檓 going to bring in 麻豆约拍 Scotland reporter, Ian Hamilton. He鈥檚 blind like me, and he鈥檚 been looking into how on earth, how the devil blind and visually impaired people still aren鈥檛 able to vote in secret with confidence on voting day. And just a little bit of trivia for you: the first stamp to seal the first secret ballot was made of liquorice. There you go. On with the show!

MUSIC-听听听听听听听听听听 Theme music.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Hello, and welcome to Access All, the 麻豆约拍鈥檚 weekly podcast dedicated to stories about disability and mental health. I鈥檓 Emma Tracey, and we鈥檙e sticking with the General Election this week 鈥� it鈥檚 on 4th July by the way. And I鈥檓 going to be finding out why blind voters still can鈥檛 vote confidently in secret. To talk to me more about that 麻豆约拍 reporter Ian Hamilton is going to be telling me why blind and visually impaired voters still can鈥檛 confidently vote in secret in the UK, and what can be done to change it. And I鈥檒l be speaking to the UK鈥檚 fastest deaf swimmer, Nathan Young, who鈥檚 heading off to the Deaflympics next year with potentially no government funding.

听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 When 麻豆约拍 Scotland reporter, Ian Hamilton, went to vote at the last elections in Scotland he came up against some barriers. He鈥檚 blind, like me, and he struggled to get the help he needed at the polling station. And when he went into the polling booth he couldn鈥檛 confidently vote in secret. Now, that is despite new rules by the electoral commission from 2022 which were designed to improve the voting experience for disabled people. Ian Hamilton is with me to tell me more. Ian, we鈥檝e got some jaw-dropping statistics from the RNIB about this. They say that only 13% of blind and visually impaired people were able to vote in secret in the last election. What happened to you exactly when you went to the polling station?

IAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Well, I went and there鈥檚 no reflection on the staff. I always think the staff are really nice and really helpful. But I think every time I go and vote there always seems to be a problem. They never seem to know how to use the template, and they never seem to know even sometimes where the template actually is.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 What鈥檚 the template, for people who don鈥檛 know?

IAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Well, what the template is it鈥檚 a plastic sheet, for want of a better word, and down the right-hand side of the template are little flaps with braille and numbers on them, and each number and braille should correspond with the box for each candidate. Now, it鈥檚 got to be lined up properly so that you can pull back the appropriate flap and when someone has read it out to you, then you can make your mark independently and in private. You then peel the ballot paper off the back of the template, fold it and put it in the box. So, you know, it is secret.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 So, someone has to read you the names and then tell you which flap coordinates with which name?

IAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 And it鈥檚 like a lift the flap book, you lift the flap.

IAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 And you put your X in the box. I mean, I鈥檝e used those before and I鈥檝e actually spoiled a ballot paper with one of those templates because it just moved slightly.

IAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 It moved, and they鈥檙e meant to stick them down; they鈥檙e meant to be slightly sticky, a bit like a sticky note. So, they鈥檙e meant to, there鈥檚 a bit they peel off the back so it adheres to the ballot paper. But quite often they don鈥檛 know how to do it [laughs]. The amount of people that I have trained how to do this over the years since it first came in in, what 2001, when it first came in.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah.

IAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 It鈥檚 unbelievable. As I say, the staff are always trying to do their best, it鈥檚 not that they don鈥檛; but they鈥檙e just not shown how to do it. And quite often I feel quite sorry for them.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 So, is it that the tech available is rubbish, or is it just that they can鈥檛 use it properly? Because it feels pretty flimsy to me. I don鈥檛 have one in front of me right now, but I remember them well because I remember thinking, is this really it?

IAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 This is as far as it goes. When you think in other countries they can vote electronically, it鈥檚 amazing that we can do the most private thing in the world, which is our banking on a mobile or digital device, but we can鈥檛 vote. And that to me is where I think we鈥檙e falling behind is in terms of the technology that we could use or possibly use.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 So, do you think that voting should be electronic in the UK?

IAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 I think there鈥檚 no reason why not. Now, the new legislation that came in in 2022, you know, it鈥檚 not quite as prescriptive as it used to be. It does open it up for innovation, is what Sarah Mackie at the Electoral Commission said to me. So, there are opportunities to try and move this thing forward and try and make it a bit easier, and try and create some new ideas that might make it easier for us in the future.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 So, what kinds of opportunities have the new rules created then?

IAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Well, [laughs] they鈥檙e pretty basic a lot of them if I鈥檓 being honest. But you can now take anyone over the age of 18 into the polling booth with you; they no longer have to fill in a form, which they used to be able to do, to assist you. As long as they鈥檙e over 18, it could be a family member, it could be a friend who can assist you to vote, so that鈥檚 a new change. Some of the other stuff is pretty basic: the template that we鈥檝e already spoken about; better lighting; better pencil grip for people who have got problems with dexterity; lower booths for people in wheelchairs. It all seems pretty basic as it stands. But I think that鈥檚 the basic, and the hope is that this new legislation will maybe open it up to let people come through with new ideas. And I have been told by Sarah that there are some good ideas coming forward for future elections.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Well, as you say, you did speak to Sarah from the Electoral Commission. Here鈥檚 what she had to say:

SARAH-听听听听听听听听听 In 2021 we conducted research after the elections where we talked to people who define themselves as disabled or with a long-term health condition to look at their experience of voting in the election. And we found that their satisfaction with the process was lower than those who did not define themselves as disabled or with a long-term health condition. Every time there is an election you hear really frustrating accounts from individual disabled voters where they鈥檝e turned up to a polling station and actually all the accessibility equipment has been there but the staff don鈥檛 know how to use it and how to support them to use it. And that鈥檚 the really important thing is to make sure that when it鈥檚 there they are ready to use it and to support people to use it.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 But is it always there, Ian? Because I鈥檝e been reading that you have to send a letter to tell people about your adjustments, to tell your polling station what you need. Is all of the stuff there, or do we actually have to do the work and ask for it?

IAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 No, apparently not. All the stuff should be there in a kit in the polling stations for the electoral officers to use it. Now, anything particularly specialised that might be a bit different, you do have the right or the ability to contact them in advance and say you鈥檇 like to use a piece of technology or do something slightly different, and they鈥檒l try and see if they can accommodate it. Now, they don鈥檛 have to accommodate it, they don鈥檛 have a legal right for you to do that; but they will try and accommodate. But there should be basic equipment there. Like the braille template, for example, for you and me that should be there; that鈥檚 part of their kit.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Ian, you鈥檝e been out and about talking to blind people about this. How are blind people feeling about the voting process this time?

IAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 I think much the same as you and I. The people that I鈥檝e spoken to say they want to go and vote, they want to go and vote in secret, but they feel there鈥檚 kind of a bit of a barrier. And it鈥檚 one of the issues we鈥檝e already spoken about, and that鈥檚 the lack of training. Are they going to get guided when they go in there? There鈥檚 always that doubt that we have when we go anywhere, Emma, whether we鈥檙e going on a train or when we go and fly: is the staff going to be trained? And I think that鈥檚 a bit of a psychological barrier for people to try and get over. When they say a couple they have been in and it鈥檚 been very patchy; sometimes they get help, sometimes they don鈥檛.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 You spoke to a voter called Sam:

SAM-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 When I鈥檝e went to go and vote previously I鈥檝e been given these braille cards for me, tactile boxes for me to tick. But the lack of awareness of sighted guides is definitely not there. There needs to be a lot more work for that to be done to have a more accessible environment with staff members at the voting polls.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Do you know what鈥檚 funny, Ian, what Sam was saying about sighting guiding, the reason why I have quite a good experience in my polling station in that regard is that I always have the same returning officer guide me into my booth, because it鈥檚 a really small polling station. But what that also means, because I don鈥檛 trust the templates I don鈥檛 use them, so I ask the returning officer to put the X in the box for me. So, I鈥檝e had the same person put the X in the box for me for the last ten years. So, whoever she is 鈥� I鈥檝e never asked her name, I don鈥檛 want to know who she is 鈥� but whoever she is knows how I鈥檝e voted for the last ten years.

IAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Slightly ironically, I know exactly what you鈥檙e talking about because neither do I trust that because I鈥檓 always double checking, saying, 鈥楬ave you lined it up?鈥� 鈥極h yes.鈥� Then you find, 鈥榃ell you lined that box up with that box?鈥� 鈥楴o. Is that what you鈥檙e meant to do?鈥� 鈥榊es, that鈥檚 the whole conversation we鈥檝e been through, could you line these up with the boxes鈥�. And even when it鈥檚 all done I鈥檝e still got this element of doubt when I walk out of the polling station of whether I鈥檝e actually voted [laughs].

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 You see, I can鈥檛 cope with that anxiety! I cannot cope with it. And, I mean even, can I just tell you I don鈥檛 know print letters, so putting the X in a box is like an inherently visual task anyway.

IAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Yes.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 So, even if it is lined up I鈥檓 worried, I鈥檝e been practising my Xs all morning, and I鈥檓 worried I鈥檝e done the wrong symbol and they won鈥檛 accept my paper. It鈥檚 very stressful. What can be done to fix this, do you think?

IAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Well, it doesn鈥檛 have to be an X, it could be any mark. And I don鈥檛 see any reason why not, why the actual voting paper, the actual papers themselves couldn鈥檛 be embossed in some way so that you could actually feel the box.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah, that鈥檚 a good idea.

IAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 That would work quite well. And actually there is a piece of device that they鈥檙e working on at the moment that might connect or line up better with the ballot paper, and hopefully that will work. But, as I say, I can鈥檛 see why we can鈥檛 do it digitally. I think that would be an interesting way for us to go.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 I believe Australia, you can vote by phone. And in Ireland you can ring up and hear all the candidates, but you still have to put the X in the box by lifting the flap. So, there you go. You also spoke to Callum about his experience:

CALLUM-听听听听听听 Other visually impaired members I鈥檝e worked with have very, very limited sight, have had no support at getting guided into the polling station. And when they鈥檙e in the polling station no one really knows what to do. It can be a really intense and quite upsetting time because there is a lot of pressure around voting sometimes. And I think that if you鈥檙e not being supported or being empowered to vote it can really put you off and then build that barrier for people to actually go out and vote.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 So, that is interesting what Callum says, isn鈥檛 it? Like, if you鈥檙e not being guided properly into the booth it鈥檚 just another barrier for blind people to voting, and then they might not vote. And then the politicians have lost some votes.

IAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 听100%. I think also, you didn鈥檛 have it on the clip there, but听 Callum and Sam said, I wonder if you feel the same as me that actually going out to be seen to vote as a disabled person is really important. I know we can do it as a postal vote but I feel quite strongly, A, as a journalist I like to go and find out what鈥檚 going on out in the day [laughs].

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah.

IAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 But I think also as a disabled person I think it鈥檚 important to be seen, to make our democratic representation.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Absolutely. I think going to the polling station for lots of people is a big part of the experience. So, we know there are new rules since the last time you voted, Ian. Will it be better this time on 4th July for blind and visually impaired voters?

IAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Well, Sarah hopes so. She said a lot of the issues in 2021 were because of COVID, that a lot of the staff were focused on trying to make it safe for people to vote, and she鈥檚 a bit more optimistic this time. I did say to her, I cannot remember how many times I鈥檝e interviewed Sarah about [laughingly] this subject over the past 20 years, and I said to her as I left, 鈥楽arah, with all due respect, I hope I鈥檓 not speaking to you again in four years鈥� time鈥�.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah.

IAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 As lovely as she is, I hope we don鈥檛. I think it鈥檚 inevitable that there will be some incidents, but let鈥檚 just hope that they鈥檙e a lot lower than they were last time.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 So, would you be encouraging disabled people and blind and visually impaired people to go out and vote now that the new rules are in place and now that, you know, the COVID rules have changed etc?

IAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah, get out and vote and make your mark, you know. I know it can be tough for some people and I know there can be a lot of barriers, even just getting to the polling station can be a barrier for people, having to get public transport there, crossing bad roads, particularly if you鈥檝e lost your vision fairly recently. Not everyone is as cussed as you and I, Emma, about getting out to do the job [laughs].

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah.

IAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 So, I think we have to take that into account that maybe perhaps people maybe don鈥檛 have the same level of confidence, and we have to accept that. But I would say to them even get somebody to go with you if that helps, go in and make your mark, test the system. Because if you don鈥檛 things will not improve.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Well, you鈥檙e quite used to embedding yourself into communities, Ian, because you present a programme on 麻豆约拍 Scotland called My Kind of Town. Can you tell us a bit about that?

IAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 My Kind of Town I鈥檝e been doing for a few years now. Basically what we do is it鈥檚 a celebration of towns, and it鈥檚 quite often towns that are not often featured in TV and radio, communities that maybe get bypassed. You quite often see these programmes where it鈥檚 kind of touristy things. We try and get to places that are maybe slightly bypassed for whatever reason, maybe post-industrial towns or towns that maybe are not quite often as seen the in media as they should be.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 And you spend a week there, don鈥檛 you?

IAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 We spend a week there, and it鈥檚 good fun spending a week there, and we speak to lots and lots of people. But actually what it鈥檚 really about, it鈥檚 not really about bricks and mortar, the programme鈥檚 really about people and what people do, what they work at, and how they love their communities. It doesn鈥檛 matter what issues their communities and towns are facing, how passionately people want to try and make them better, want to improve them.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah. And as a blind presenter do you think you bring something extra to a show like that? Do you think you can get more out of people, a different sense of the town than someone else would?

IAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah, I think you do, I think you do. Because I think, you probably find this yourself [laughs], quite often people will tell you things if you鈥檙e blind that the wouldn鈥檛 normally tell anybody else, which I think is quite interesting, particularly when there鈥檚 a camera there.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 I like to think it鈥檚 just my excellent presenter style, but maybe it is just the blindness. Maybe that is the only reason why I get so much out of people.

IAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Well, I think people feel quite relaxed sometimes. And it does come down trying to feel and trying to make people feel quite relaxed. Oddly, as you know I鈥檝e got a guide dog, I think quite often it鈥檚 the dog that does the trick, not me, and people will chat to the dog. It does open more doors. But I think, we鈥檝e done about 20 programmes now, and as the series has gone on more and more people know about it and they know that we鈥檙e not going in there to slag off a town and be horrible about a town. It鈥檚 a half full programme, not a half empty one, so we try and look at the best. We don鈥檛 ignore the issues, don鈥檛 get me wrong, there鈥檚 still a bit of journalism in there; but it鈥檚 really a bit of a celebration of the town. We don鈥檛 go in there to try and castigate them or pull them down.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Finally Ian, back to the job in hand, the General Election, what kinds of stories and things will you be looking out for between now and 4th July?

IAN-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 I think it鈥檚 interesting, there are a lot of stories kicking about that will affect all kinds of people with disability. I think welfare is going to be a big subject from whatever party comes in. I think that鈥檚 one of the big issues: they鈥檙e all going to try and get their welfare bill down, and that鈥檚 going to be an issue, people with disabilities come into the fray and how we try and close the employment gap. And there are a couple of other stories we鈥檝e got on commissioning at the moment. If there鈥檚 anything of interest to you, Emma, I promise I鈥檒l come and talk to you about it.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Thanks Ian, we鈥檇 love to have you back. Ian Hamilton, thank you for joining me.

听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Remember the specialist workshop that I went to for blind women where I learned to do my hair? Well, that was featured on People Fixing the World, which is a World Service radio programme about solutions to the world鈥檚 problems. It鈥檚 an absolutely great listen. And on that same episode they talked about adaptive fashion for disabled people around the world. Take a listen:

FEMALE-听听听听听听听 When I set up the brand it was because of my own problems. I was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis, I couldn鈥檛 button myself, like my shirts, because I鈥檝e got limited mobility in my fingers. So, it was because of that I still wanted to be dignified, I still wanted to be dressed pretty, and my fashion sense did not die because of my condition. And I鈥檓 not defined by condition.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 To listen to that whole episode and lots of other episodes on the People Fixing the World feed search for it on 麻豆约拍 Sounds or wherever you get your podcasts.

听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Whilst many elite athletes will be preparing for the Olympics and Paralympics this summer my next guest will be spending another frustrating summer fundraising to get himself to the Deaflympics next year. He holds the esteemed title as the UK鈥檚 fastest deaf swimmer. He鈥檚 25, he鈥檚 been deaf since early childhood, and when he鈥檚 out of the pool he uses cochlear implants. He holds seven national records and won a bronze medal at the 23rd Deaflympics in Turkey in 2017. But despite all of these accolades my guest, Nathan Young, receives no government support to pursue his dream of being an elite swimmer, because being deaf in itself is not one of the criteria which allows you to become a Paralympian. And it鈥檚 the Paralympics that receives most of the state support given to disabled athletes. Nathan Young, you are so welcome.

NATHAN-听听听听听听 Thank you for having me. I鈥檓 looking forward to it.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Tell me about the Deaflympics.

NATHAN-听听听听听听 So, it鈥檚 the pinnacle of every deaf athlete鈥檚 career. And obviously I was lucky enough to go and actually win a bronze medal. It鈥檚 a very, very proud thing for a deaf athlete to go and achieve. This year it鈥檚 the 100 years of the Deaflympics, so it was actually created in 1924 in Paris, and since then it鈥檚 just grown and grown and grown.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 What鈥檚 it like there?

NATHAN-听听听听听听 Amazing. I absolutely loved it. Obviously getting to see lots of deaf people from all over the world, getting to race and show our talent, I loved every second of it. And hopefully I can go to the next one, which is supposed to be in Tokyo next year.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Nathan, how did you start swimming?

NATHAN-听听听听听听 I think it was just like any child, they just start swimming just to learn. Ultimately it鈥檚 a life skill. And I think I just took it a step too far sometimes. I started to enjoy it more and more. My parents, obviously I found out I was deaf at quite a young age, I was four, so they knew that I might be very self-conscious about having a hearing aid and things like that so they thought, well let鈥檚 try and build his confidence in another aspect of his life, and swimming provided that for me. And since then I鈥檝e just achieved a lot more than I thought I would have done. I actually didn鈥檛 find out about deaf sport until I was 15. It just shows you the lack of awareness that there is for deaf sport in general. And I think me being deaf you would have thought I鈥檇 have known that since a very young age. Whereas everyone knows about the Paralympics and the Olympics.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 What鈥檚 the difference between deaf swimming and regular swimming?

NATHAN-听听听听听听 The big one for me is the start. In the UK, or Great Britain I should say, they only have the one light that tells me when to go. I don鈥檛 know when to get on the block, I don鈥檛 know when to take your marks, and that gives me a massive unfair disadvantage, and I鈥檓 always late into the pool. Obviously people say to me but light travels faster than sound, you should be quicker, but that whole sequence of events, getting ready, making sure you鈥檙e concentrating on yourself and yourself only, when really I鈥檓 just looking to try and find a referee and see if he鈥檚 got any movements in his lips so I know he鈥檚 saying take your marks, which is quite a stressful thing to do.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 So, Nathan, obviously you鈥檙e deaf so you don鈥檛 hear the signal that we听 hear at the start of each race. In the Olympics and the Paralympics it鈥檚 like doo, doo, doo, doooo. And there鈥檚 only one light. So, it鈥檚 quite difficult for you. Is it different in other countries?

NATHAN-听听听听听听 So, when I go to a deaf competition they have the traffic light system, so it鈥檚 red: get on the block, orange: take your marks, and green: go. But in this country their system is not compatible with the traffic light system, which I think comes a lot back to the funding aspects. Because if there was funding they would do it, but because they say funding they don鈥檛 want to do it. Obviously I鈥檝e done it for years and years, but it鈥檚 all those kids coming up that have to deal with the same issues. So, my hoping was that if I can sort this out now they don鈥檛 have to go through this.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 What have you been doing in your campaign?

NATHAN-听听听听听听 It just started with a Twitter campaign, just tweeting every single day, just day one, day two of just campaigning the government every single day and tweeting all these MPs to see if we can bring about change. And like you said, it鈥檚 been over 1,000 days now, and we have got responses but the response is always, we give 1.2 million to deaf sport. So, they feel like they鈥檝e done their part. But that will never touch an elite deaf athlete, which is quite sad. A lot of my team mates have had to retire much earlier than what they should have because they were struggling to pay the bills and financially prepare themselves to be the best possible shape to race.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 So, when you won the bronze what was the difference between you and the other deaf athletes in Turkey?

NATHAN-听听听听听听 I became really aware of the magnitude of what other countries get compared to us. So, countries like Russia just wipe the floor with most of us really winning everything, because they are a government backed country with the funding for deaf athletes. They鈥檙e just treated exactly like the Paralympics; same with Ukraine, same with Japan. So, the main thing that you see is they take a bigger team. Russia will take, like, 30 athletes; we will take about 12.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Can you give me a few details of the impact it has on you not having state funding?

NATHAN-听听听听听听 So, there are multiple things. Obviously immediately from the get-go I鈥檓 at a disadvantage because I鈥檝e not trained as much. Right now if I was not a swimmer I鈥檇 be in a position where I鈥檇 be working, but because I love the sport so much I wanted to try and sustain a career working in jobs that have allowed me to fit it around my training. But unfortunately I wanted to start getting on the career path because I know that unfortunately the sport is not a career path that鈥檚 going to sustain you for life, so I鈥檝e got a new job. That鈥檚 taking away time from my training, I don鈥檛 do as many gym sessions, I鈥檓 not in the pool as much unfortunately. But I think that鈥檚 just a sacrifice that a deaf athlete has to take. But then linking it back to other countries, they get paid to train. So, when we come to these competitions I鈥檓 standing up on that block in that final, and six out of those eight swimmers are all funded athletes. So, obviously it鈥檚 also a mental game of knowing mentally that I鈥檝e not prepared, I鈥檝e got no funding so I don鈥檛 go to physios, I don鈥檛 get a massage.

And fundraising is a big thing because obviously it might be easier just asking for money, but it takes a lot of time and effort to write the emails, write letters to charities, newspaper articles to ask for funding. So, it takes up a lot of time. And then once you鈥檝e paid for all the accommodation you鈥檝e got to try and do the kit, which I鈥檝e also got to pay for, my racing trunks which aren鈥檛 that cheap so I鈥檝e got to pay for them as well. And obviously when I get there sometimes I鈥檝e got to have the money to stay there. For example, I went to Brazil, that鈥檚 a long flight so you get a bit of jetlag, so I didn鈥檛 have the money to stay there as long as I wanted to so I had to get there quite early and then two days later I鈥檓 racing. It鈥檚 not enough time to recover and to recuperate. And then, like I said, when I鈥檓 on the block I know it鈥檚 a mental thing of I know that I鈥檝e not done enough as them to do this race. I know I shouldn鈥檛 think so negatively but you can鈥檛 help but do that.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Why do you think that disabled athletes who aren鈥檛 deaf do get state funding?

NATHAN-听听听听听听 Deaf athletes in the UK have just fallen down a crack. And obviously lots of deaf people just in the general sense have been made to feel isolated, and I think that this is no different. Now that the BSL Act has come in and there鈥檚 more publicity on the deaf community I think that this is a perfect time to now make deaf athletes on par with their Paralympic peers; even though we鈥檙e not in the Paralympics, which is not what we want to do, we鈥檙e really happy.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 So, you don鈥檛 want to be part of the Paralympics then?

NATHAN-听听听听听听 No, it鈥檚 not about that. It鈥檚 about we are Deaflympic athletes and we鈥檙e proud.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听 Nathan Young, the UK鈥檚 fastest deaf swimmer, thank you for joining me. And just to clarify what the BSL Act is, it means that BSL has been recognised as a language in England, Scotland and Wales.

听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Well, there听 you have it, another episode of Access All almost over. Thank you so much to my guests, Ian Hamilton and Nathan Young. Listen, we are going to be doing a lot more on the General Election between now and 4th July, so do keep your questions and thoughts coming. What should we be asking the political parties? What do you want them to do for disabled people? Should they get into government? Tell us on the WhatsApp, 0330 123 9480. We鈥檙e on the socials @麻豆约拍AccessAll, and we鈥檙e accessall@bbc.co.uk on the email. That鈥檚 it. Catch you next time. Bye.

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