麻豆约拍

Access All 鈥� episode 100

Presented by Emma Tracey

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EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 It takes me a long time to get to Broadcasting House for the recording of this podcast. I live in Fife in Scotland, which is one train to Edinburgh and then another train to London. And I often take the sleeper train, so I thought you might like to hear a little bit of my journey:

听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 I have just arrived in my room on the sleeper train. I鈥檝e got my back to the door and on the left are very skinny bunkbeds, of which I鈥檓 on the bottom bunk. Nobody is on the top bunk, which is good. Then on the right-hand side there鈥檚 a bit of a wall, and then there鈥檚 a wall with hangers on it which I will hang my coat on and my outfit for tomorrow. And the room is the length of the beds, which is not particularly long. And right to the other end to the door is a window with a blind on it, and a sink underneath, a towel underneath that and the bin. I will introduce you to the talking toilet:

TOILET-听听听听听听听听听听 The toilet door is opening. Please lock the door. The toilet door is locked.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 It鈥檚 nice and bright. It鈥檚 warm. We鈥檙e still in the station, and I鈥檓 going to get ready for bed.

MUSIC-听听听听听听听听听听听 Theme music.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 Hello, this is Access All, the 麻豆约拍鈥檚 weekly disability and mental health podcast. I鈥檓 Emma Tracey and, can you believe it, this is our 100th episode! 100, amazing. Now, this week we鈥檝e got a real treat for you because we will be speaking to deaf actress, Rose Ayling-Ellis about how she has changed the conversation about BSL in the UK. And we鈥檒l chat with Rose about our soon to be launching BSL videos of highlights of this very podcast. Plus we鈥檒l be taking a look behind the scenes of Access All. You鈥檝e already heard my journey on the sleeper train to Scotland. And you鈥檒l even get to meet the transcriber of this podcast, Alison Kingsley. She鈥檚 been doing it for a long time and absolutely loves it, so it鈥檒l be lovely to talk to her.

听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 We have been asking our guests for ages what the best advice is that another disabled person has given them, so we will be playing some of those. They sound a bit like this:

BRADLEY-听听听听听 I think the best advice I ever got given was from 鈥� do you know Chlo茅 Hayden鈥�

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 Yes.

BRADLEY-听听听听听 鈥�from Heartbreak High?

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 Australian autistic actress.

BRADLEY-听听听听听 Yeah. And all she could say was, 鈥淭here are going to be hard times, struggles, but you knowing yourself and finding the beauty in you and beauty around others will make you flourish鈥�. And since she said that, I鈥檓 not kidding, I feel like I鈥檝e just accepted who I am. And once I accept who I am then I鈥檓 hoping that the industry can accept who I am as well.

FRANK-听听听听听听听听听听听 Hi, Access All. My name is Frank Gardner. I am the 麻豆约拍 security correspondent and I鈥檝e got a spinal cord injury after a gunshot wound. The best advice I had was what I was given while I was still in hospital at Stanmore, which is from somebody who also had a spinal cord injury, and that was: as soon as you possibly can get the heck out of hospital. Just get out as quickly as you possibly can; not just for your own mental benefit, but also because there are so many hospital borne infections, or at least there were at the time, and it鈥檚 just much better and healthier for you to be at home, not in hospital.

ASHLEY-听听听听听听听听 I think the best piece of advice another person with a disability has given me is to lean into it. I work in comedy and I鈥檝e grown up in stand-up comedy, and the best stand-up comedians I know are the people who lean into the things that set them apart, and they don鈥檛 try and hide it and they don鈥檛 try and conform it. But they say, look at this, and this is how I embrace it. So, I kind of try and do that every day.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 And there you heard Bradley Riches from Heartstopper, 麻豆约拍 correspondent Frank Gardner, and comedian Ashley Storrie. I like that bit from Ashley at the end: lean into what鈥檚 different about you. And that鈥檚 kind of why I鈥檓 here presenting this podcast, because I鈥檝e leaned into the blindness, yes I have.

听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Now, you鈥檝e already heard my journey on the sleeper train to London from Scotland. And this is a bit of a theme of this week鈥檚 show, this look behind the scenes of how鈥�

DAMON-听听听听听听听听听 Sorry, could you just go ahead and say that word again, Emma? A bit of a peme was that? I didn鈥檛 catch it.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 [Laughs] why are you in here? I don鈥檛 usually have you right in front of me. You鈥檙e usually鈥�

DAMON-听听听听听听听听听 Didn鈥檛 catch it.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 鈥�in my ear.

DAMON-听听听听听听听听听 Go on, the listener wants to hear from me.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 What? No, you鈥檙e鈥�listen, this is the editor, Damon Rose, who thankfully is usually in a different room. But he鈥檚 here today just trying to put me off my stride I think.

DAMON-听听听听听听听听听 That鈥檚 usually the kind of thing that Emma gets down the headphones.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 Say that word again.

DAMON-听听听听听听听听听 But more nicely.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 Er, nicely? That鈥檚 kind of debatable to be honest. So, we鈥檙e going to go a bit more behind the scenes. We鈥檝e been taking some sneaky recordings from some of the meetings that we鈥檝e been having. Let鈥檚 hear a bit of that:

[Clip]

DAMON-听听听听听听听听听 Can we just check where everybody is with the edit at the moment? Alex?

ALEX-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah, I鈥檝e just finished the Rose interview and it鈥檚 ready to go.

DAMON-听听听听听听听听听 Great. Drew?

DREW-听听听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah, I鈥檓 just editing Emma鈥檚 journey in on the train.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 I hope you鈥檙e keeping in the talking toilet?

DREW-听听听听听听听听听听听听 I鈥檒l make sure the talking toilet makes it in.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 Thank you.

DAMON-听听听听听听听听听 That鈥檚 good [laughter] Niamh?

NIAMH-听听听听听听听听听听听 I鈥檓 in the middle of doing the Alison edit. I need to get that to about seven minutes at the moment but yeah, we鈥檙e on track.

[End of clip]

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 So, Damon, seeing as you have come in here I will ask you some questions, if that鈥檚 okay?

DAMON-听听听听听听听听听 Uh-huh.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 Why are we going behind the scenes? Like, what鈥檚 the point in looking behind Access All? Maybe people just want, like, a polished show, perfection.

DAMON-听听听听听听听听听 [Laughs] well, people are always really interested to know how things work. What I鈥檇 like to talk about, I suppose, is to go back to basics and explain what we鈥檙e here for.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 Do you see the way the editor changed my question?

DAMON-听听听听听听听听听 [Laughs].

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 Literally I asked him one question and he answered a different question. What are we trying to do here, Damon the editor, with Access All? What are we trying to achieve?

DAMON-听听听听听听听听听 Say it again, say it again but not鈥�don鈥檛鈥�let鈥檚 take some of the humour out of it.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 [Laughs] keep that in, Dave.

DAMON-听听听听听听听听听 What? No, no don鈥檛! Come on, we鈥檝e got till 12 o鈥檆lock so we鈥檝e got to get on with this. Panicking. So, you and me and other people over the years who have been doing disability projects at the 麻豆约拍 online and on podcast and on air for quite a long time now 鈥� too long, I鈥檓 not even going to put a time on it, it's almost embarrassing 鈥� so we鈥檝e evolved in all that time I think. To begin with back in the 2000s we were very cheeky, we were very humorous, we were very much trying to reflect a group of people, disabled people who weren鈥檛 reflected at all. But things have changed quite a lot now I think. I think we can say鈥�

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 Have they though?

DAMON-听听听听听听听听听 I think we can say this is a lot more disabled people on TV.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 Certain types of disabled people.

DAMON-听听听听听听听听听 Certain types of disabled people.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 On TV.

DAMON-听听听听听听听听听 And we seem more open in talking about things. In the same way that everybody can say the word sex now, and that鈥檚 fine on the radio, you think back to the 1980s when I Want Your Sex was out and Radio 1 weren鈥檛 allowed to say the title [music plays: I Want Your Sex]. Lots of things have become less taboo.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 Yes, but we used to, sometimes some of the more tricky disability words were allowed in our podcast through comedy and through, sort of, grass roots-y chat, that we would never put in the podcast now.

DAMON-听听听听听听听听听 Uh, yes, and that鈥檚 because I think, you know, we often hear about people, editors who edit older things for sensitivity. I think if we were still doing a programme that we were doing 20 years ago I think people would be raising the eyebrows a little too much. Also I think I have come in my old age to believe that we need to bring more and more non-disabled people into this. We live alongside non-disabled people. In the early days it was, I suppose, more about let鈥檚 hear disabled people鈥檚 voices as they are, who they are. But now we鈥檙e seeing it in a different context where there鈥檚 more people from lots of different backgrounds.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 I worry that we鈥檝e actually made our podcast sound less good than the one that we did years ago.

DAMON-听听听听听听听听听 No, not at all because we鈥檙e bringing more people along with us. Disability, as you often say, Em, is a journey. And what we鈥檙e trying to do now I think is get people at all points along that journey, people who think of disability as being, you know, a part of their identity and a part of their culture. Absolutely spot on. But there鈥檚 also people the other end who are just coming into disability, they鈥檝e perhaps just had a disabled child, they鈥檝e perhaps just become disabled themselves, and they need a bit more of a gentle introduction to where they are in life. And perhaps we can add something new and interesting that they鈥檝e never thought about before.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 I hope so.

DAMON-听听听听听听听听听 That鈥檚 surely it. You can say goodbye to me now.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 Niamh is saying Drew had made a really good point and she鈥檚 about to tell me what it is: back in the early days of you and I working on disability focused podcasts it was one of the only online spaces for disabled people, and now there are many, and many for people in different parts of the journey. There鈥檚 lots of social media, different TikTok, Facebook, Twitter, X etc. The landscape has changed massively, and I guess it means that we do more need to be a coverall and meeting them where they are. Is that kind of what you meant, Drew? Yes.

听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Damon, this has been weird. Here鈥檚 to 100 more Access All episodes.

DAMON-听听听听听听听听听 Thank you very much.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 When we were planning our 100th episode we all were wondering who we would love to get back in the studio. Who have we had on in the last two years who鈥檚 really made an impression on us. And we all agreed that we would love to talk to Rose Ayling-Ellis. So, she is back and she is here. Hi Rose!

ROSE-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Hello, and thank you for having me.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 Oh, thank you so much for returning to the podcast. What鈥檚 your day like today?

ROSE-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Oh, my day today, it鈥檚 quite nice today. It鈥檚 a nice morning, just a bit cloudy. But it鈥檚 my day off so I got a filming tomorrow and the rest of the week I鈥檝e got more filming, so I need to stock up my fridge, get some food in.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 Right.

ROSE-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 I鈥檝e got no food, so that is my plan today, to do a bit of food shopping after this podcast [laughs].

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 Even famous people like Rose Ayling-Ellis have to go to the supermarket. That鈥檚 good to know. Rose Ayling-Ellis of course is a deaf actress and model who wowed the judges on Strictly and who鈥�

ROSE-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Model?

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 Why, are you not a model? It鈥檚 in my notes. Were you never a model?

ROSE-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Model? Um, I could try out modelling, but no [laughs].

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 Okay, I鈥檒l start that again then [laughter].

ROSE-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 I love it. It鈥檚 really funny.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 Why would you think being a model would be funny to you? I mean, I鈥檓 blind but I鈥檓 told you're very beautiful.

ROSE-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 [Laughs] thank you. I think I might have done some photoshoots for a magazine and stuff, but that鈥檇 be a bit more鈥� Anyway, it doesn鈥檛 really matter, does it?

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 No, no.

ROSE-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Sorry, for the interruption [laughs].

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 No, not at all. It鈥檚 all fine. And actually maybe you鈥檒l do some modelling in the future, so maybe we鈥檙e just ahead of the game. Okay. Rose Ayling-Ellis of course you are an actor, a deaf actor who wowed the judges and the public on Strictly and who undoubtedly has helped to change the conversation around British Sign Language, or BSL in the UK. How have you been since we spoke to you last? I think you were on August last year?

ROSE-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Yes. I鈥檝e been really good. I think this year is a year of focusing on my acting, because I鈥檝e done quite a lot of work on advocating for BSL and with my documentary and stuff, and I feel like I need to have a good balance because yes, I can be advocating, but actually I鈥檇 like to do my work too.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 You鈥檙e using BSL when you鈥檙e acting and seeing BSL in the theatre and on TV and online, is all, I think, all advocating really, whether you like it or not, isn鈥檛 it?

ROSE-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 So, you have just won the best West End debut performance at the Stage Theatre Awards. How does it feel to have won that award?

ROSE-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 It was amazing. I felt so proud of myself because this was a role that I wasn鈥檛 really speaking in most of it, I was just using BSL the whole time. Only a small section I spoke. It鈥檚 nice to be awarded with that because it does just show that people in the audience do understand what I was trying to express on the stage, and I don鈥檛 need to verbally state everything. It got a caption, which means hearing people or people who don鈥檛 know BSL can still follow the story and then laugh at a certain thing I did.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 Quite a trailblazer you are. And that was for As You Like It, wasn鈥檛 it?

ROSE-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 Speaking of new experiences, we on Access All are always very, very conscious that we鈥檙e an audio podcast, and we do have a transcription which a lot of people say is useful to them for their experience. But it鈥檚 not perfect for people whose first language is BSL. Very soon we will launch our own set of British Sign Language videos on the 麻豆约拍 Sounds YouTube channel. We鈥檙e going to start with six of them, and they will be highlights from some of the interviews that we鈥檝e done here on Access All over the last few months. How do you feel about 麻豆约拍 kind of attempting to make podcasts a bit more accessible to BSL users?

ROSE-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 I think it鈥檚 brilliant. My dad said to me that he listens to podcasts all the time, and he said the one thing that makes them quite different to TV and film is that you can talk about a subject very in depth, that you can go really deep in one subject, and not other media does that, but podcasts do it. So, I think having a BSL interpreter on the side makes that us a connection to these things. Because I want to learn about different subjects in depth that I wouldn鈥檛 learn it from film or TV, but podcasts I could do. So, I think it鈥檚 fantastic that the 麻豆约拍 is making it BSL accessible for deaf people.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 Well, I mean, I think that鈥檚 what we鈥檙e hoping is that people will see this and we鈥檙e the first ones to do it in the 麻豆约拍, but we鈥檙e hoping that it will catch on and other podcasts will do it too.

ROSE-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Yes, it鈥檚 a start. I just don鈥檛 want, what we see quite often is a start saying, yeah, we鈥檝e done this, great, good job, finished. No, you need to keep doing more.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 And have you ever tried to, like, follow a podcast with the transcripts or anything? Or do you just not see podcasts as being for you at all?

ROSE-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Annie Mac, I did a podcast with her. Before she interviewed me she never really had a transcript, but when she interviewed me she started to realise okay, I need to make my podcast accessible, and now she has transcripts for everything. So, when I listen to it and I can read the podcast transcript at the same time it鈥檚 great, I really enjoyed it. But I want more of that.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 Shall we return to BSL? I mean, we've had the BSL act, and there is a BSL GCSE I鈥檓 told in the works.

ROSE-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Yes.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 BSL is really having a moment, and you鈥檝e been a big part of that moment. How do you and the community and us, we all keep that going and keep the momentum up around BSL?

ROSE-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 I think people are starting to accept that BSL is a language, and I think a lot of people want to learn BSL. And the amount of messages I have from people saying, oh, it should be taught in school, it should be taught in school. I鈥檓 like yeah, we鈥檝e been trying to do that for a long time. And now it鈥檚 happening because I think we鈥檙e getting more support from the hearing community and that鈥檚 what鈥檚 pushed the message a bit bigger.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 You were live on prime time 麻豆约拍 One talking about it, or everywhere talking about it. And we kind of do see you, whether you like it or not, Rose, as a bit of an unofficial ambassador for BSL. How do you feel about that?

ROSE-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 I don鈥檛 know. It鈥檚 a bit of a mixed feeling. And I鈥檓 sure it is a mixed feeling for anybody to be told that. I think one, it鈥檚 fantastic because I鈥檝e been waiting for that person to be on prime time TV and push all of this work. I feel it鈥檚 great. But then at the same time we do have a bit of pressure on it as well because I can鈥檛 work the bench for every single deaf people because every deaf people is so different from each other.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 Good to recognise that. Well, let鈥檚 talk about your acting again because there鈥檚 so much that we can鈥檛 talk about that we鈥檙e told, that you鈥檙e doing lots and lots of different projects. But we can talk about the Code of Silence, the ITV police drama, where you play a hospital worker who becomes a lipreader for the police. What was it like playing that character?

ROSE-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 We haven鈥檛 started filming it until this summer.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 Ah.

ROSE-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 But I鈥檓 really excited to play this because I think it plays around with the stereotype of lipreading. A lot of people assume that us lipreading is like a superpower, we can lipread anyone 200m away from us; which is impossible, by the way. But it plays around with that, and that鈥檚 what excites me about this role.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 And are you a kick-arse lipreader? Do you sit and lipread people when you're people watching? Or do you lipread, I don鈥檛 know, members of the Royal Family when they鈥檙e being filmed coming out of church or whatever?

ROSE-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Do you know what? I鈥檓 actually a terrible lipreader.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 [Laughs]

ROSE-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 I actually need my glasses or I have no idea what鈥檚 going on. No, I鈥檓 not really a very good lipreader, no [laughs].

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 Do you have friends that do though? Is it something that is a kind of a thing? Like me, I can be in a restaurant and my husband always laughs at me because I can be listening to two of the conversations going on in the restaurant and having a conversation with him at the same time. Is it something that deaf people you know do use as a, I don鈥檛 know, fun tool or whatever?

ROSE-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Lipreading is not 100%. 80% of the time you鈥檙e guessing what they鈥檙e saying. You鈥檝e also got take the factor of their body language, the subject they鈥檙e talking about, the lighting, what the room is like, how busy it is, how noisy, all of this. And there are certain words that, for example elephant, colourful and I love you have exactly the same lip pattern.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 [Laughs] right, so you really could get the wrong end of the stick. So, Rose, before you go, it鈥檚 our 100th episode this week and we鈥檝e been asking disabled celebrities to share with us the best piece of advice that another disabled person has given them. What would your advice be? What did someone tell you that鈥檚 really made an impact on you, a deaf or disabled person?

ROSE-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Ooh, okay. Oh my god, you鈥檙e putting me on the spot. I鈥檓 now having to flash back my whole life of meeting all the deaf people giving me all sorts of advice.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 [Laughs]

ROSE-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 I had this one lady called Charlie, and she鈥檚 lovely, and she used to teach me acting when I was very young at the Youth Centre. And she had always told me to, 鈥淛ust don鈥檛 worry about other people, just do you and keep going for it and keep carrying on鈥�. I think I don鈥檛 put pressure on myself too much, that鈥檚 what she always told me, so I don鈥檛 need to feel like I have to represent for all deaf people, I have to make change for all deaf people at all times.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 Thank you so much, Rose, for that really interesting advice that you got from a fellow BSL user. Here鈥檚 a little selection of advice from other friends of the pod:

MOLLY-听听听听听听听听听听 Hiya, it鈥檚 Molly from The Traitors here. The best piece of advice a fellow disabled person has given me is: it鈥檚 the ability, not the disability, that counts. I think it just made me realise I should focus on the things I can do, not the things I can鈥檛. And yeah, it just changed my mindset into a really positive one.

GARY-听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Hello, my name鈥檚 Gary O鈥橠onoghue, and I鈥檓 the 麻豆约拍鈥檚 senior North America correspondent, and I鈥檓 totally blind. The best piece of advice I鈥檝e ever been given by another disabled person is: you can鈥檛 fight all the battles. We all know there are a million different barriers, a million different microaggressions we have to deal with; take on the big ones, let the small ones go and save your sanity.

RUTH-听听听听听听听听听听听听听 I think the best piece of advice I鈥檝e ever been given from a disabled person, there鈥檚 actually two things; number one is more serious than the there one. So, number one is: always think about the next person coming into a job after you. So, I will always want to make sure that whatever job I do, whatever acting job, writing job, that I leave it more accessible than when I found it so that the next person that comes in who鈥檚 got a disability has an easier time, and who doesn鈥檛 have to worry about this kind of stuff. So, that was one piece of advice.

听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 The second was: don鈥檛 be afraid to annoy people [laughs]. Like, I鈥檓 not telling you who鈥檚 given me that piece of advice, but yeah, if me asking for access requirements is annoying then so be it. Yeah, both great pieces of advice and both that I use a lot.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 We finished with Ruth Madeley there, one of my absolute faves. And she had two fantastic pieces of advice. I love the last one in particular: be annoying. So, I have total leeway now to be annoying. Excellent. That鈥檚 not going to be hard for me. Thank you Ruth.

听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Here I am in the Access All office, and I鈥檓 getting ready to interview somebody who鈥檚 very, very important to the show. It鈥檚 Alison who makes the transcript. So that I know the questions that I鈥檓 going to ask and what I need to cover in this I need a script. Now, I used to read it off my laptop with a screen reader, so a synthetic voice talking in my ear and a braille display. But technology fell down a couple of times and it was a bit slower than I would like, so I鈥檝e started to braille bits of script and questions onto a series of cue cards. [Taps cards] these are my cue cards, just little flash cards that you use for studying or whatever. And I use a brailler, a Perkins brailler, which is like a very old-fashioned braille typewriter. So, braille has six dots in two rows of three, so this has six keys [taps keys], two rows of three. It has a space bar, and it has a back space, and it has a down line, and it has a roller, and it has a bring back to the beginning of the line button, and that is basically it. It鈥檚 made of metal, it鈥檚 got a handle, it鈥檚 very heavy. It鈥檚 very, very old-school so I鈥檝e gone very low tech on this.

听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 So, I鈥檓 going to put the card in, and I just want to show you how noisy it is. There鈥檚 no electronics in this at all, it鈥檚 just a typewriter. So, I鈥檝e rolled the card in [pinging sound], that鈥檚 the down line button so that鈥檚 even quite noisy. So, I鈥檓 in a booth a little bit away from everybody because it鈥檚 really noisy. I鈥檓 just going to start writing this one out. Here we go [noisy typing], I鈥檓 going to write Alison, I鈥檓 going to write one so I know which card I鈥檓 on for the Alison interview. And I鈥檒l tell you what, braille is very big and these cards are very small, so I write in the most ridiculous shorthand. With the questions I will just say something like, 鈥榟ow transcribe鈥� question mark. So, 鈥榟ow do you transcribe the podcast, Alison?鈥� that will be. But I just need little keywords that I can glance my fingers over and I鈥檒l know what question. Because I know it all in my head anyway. And then if there鈥檚 longer pieces of script I鈥檒l write those out as well. I just bring these little cue cards into the studio which means I don鈥檛 have two sets of headphones on, because I鈥檝e already got headphones on to hear what the producers are saying and everything, so it means I don鈥檛 have two sets. I don鈥檛 want to have big tech on my lap, and I don鈥檛 have to worry about batteries running out or anything. And actually it鈥檚 a lot less stressful.

听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Any other questions, Drew?

DREW-听听听听听听听听听听听听 No. Just watching you do it the only thing that came to mind was when you鈥檙e rolling the card in there are two sort of, like, the old-school drying rollers that they used to use, back before we had tumble dryers and air drying, where you sort of press your clothes through.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 [Laughs]

DREW-听听听听听听听听听听听听 And you having your fingers that close to it had me a little bit on edge that if鈥�

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 [Laughs]

DREW-听听听听听听听听听听听听 鈥�if you role your fingers in it, ooh.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 No, I don鈥檛 believe there has even been a rolling accident with a brailler that I鈥檝e heard of. What used to happen though, and what happened to me at blindy boarding school was I was little and a big girl was big, and she walking 鈥� tall I mean, big 鈥� and she was walking with the brailler and walked straight into my forehead with the back bit there.

DREW-听听听听听听听听听听听听 Ooh!

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 I had like a tennis ball on my forehead for weeks after that. So, there were those sorts of incidents. I mean, I wouldn鈥檛 want to drop this on my foot or anything.

DREW-听听听听听听听听听听听听 No, that is big and heavy.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 It鈥檚 really, really heavy. So, we have one in the office and I just keep it there and use it in the office.

DREW-听听听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah, it looks like one of those industrial revolution factory machines, but just sort of shrunk down a little bit. It鈥檚 big sort of green, almost sort of cast metal that鈥檚 sort of screwed together. It does look, yeah, very hefty.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 [Noisy typing] continuing with our behind the scenes theme of this 100th episode we thought it might be nice to speak to the person who transcribes our podcast every single week. Alison Kingsley is on the line. Hi Alison. What鈥檚 it like to be on a programme that you鈥檝e transcribed for so long?

ALISON-听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah, it鈥檚 kind of surreal. It鈥檚 been, well not only Access All has been two years, but I鈥檝e been doing your previous episodes of Ouch for many years. So, it鈥檚 really lovely and quite an honour to be invited on. Thank you.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 When you鈥檝e been transcribing the podcast in the past was there anything that you鈥檝e been writing down and transcribing that you鈥檝e been like, oh my gosh, what is this?

ALISON-听听听听听听听听听听 Absolutely all the time! [Laughter] no, I鈥檓 joking. Not so much with your ones. I mean, obviously I transcribe other things as well and yeah, you do sometimes have to put up with some bad language and things like that; which obviously never happens on a 麻豆约拍 podcast. No, I think we鈥檝e had to a few 鈥榠n brackets鈥� beeps and things like that, but not so much. No, I chuckle a lot. I was very disappointed actually because I have a lovely colleague, Jo, who covers for me when I鈥檓 on holiday, and I remember last year you had an episode with somebody who had hired a sex worker and I remember reading back on that and thinking, that would have been a good one to have transcribed.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 Oh, Melanie and Chayse, that鈥檚 who it was, yeah.

ALISON-听听听听听听听听听听 That鈥檚 right, yeah.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 Melanie and Chayse were absolutely phenomenal actually.

ALISON-听听听听听听听听听听 [Laughs]

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 So, can you tell me a little bit about the process of transcribing? Just to give people a little bit of a flavour, we produce, we get it all together, then we record, then we edit. And we have a fairly good-natured argument every single time about how long each person鈥檚 section is going to be, because we all want 15 minutes when we can only have ten. And then we put it all together into a nice little package and we upload it, and then we send the email to Alison, usually quite late at night, saying here鈥檚 the audio to transcribe. Then what happens?

ALISON-听听听听听听听听听听 Okay, so the good thing is I live in France so I鈥檓 already an hour ahead of you, so the fact it comes in late at night at least means I pick it up very early in the morning and I can get it to you by your preferred time, which is 8 o鈥檆lock UK time. So, basically it鈥檚 a question of downloading it. Most people who transcribe use a piece of software which enables you to stop and start, because obviously nobody can type as quickly as people speak. So, I just download it into that piece of software and yeah, just type as I hear. I mean, a lot of the times you have to stop and do some Google checking, because you can never assume when you鈥檙e transcribe that names are written how you think they鈥檙e written. For example, my name Alison, there鈥檚 a number of ways of spelling it, double L, some people spell with a Y. And yeah, then when it鈥檚 done the other last thing is to proof it, which is super important because when you鈥檙e typing quickly, which obviously you need to be able to do, it鈥檚 very easy just to do the odd spelling mistake. And I鈥檓 a bit of a grammar geek, so I always like to make sure that everything鈥檚 punctuated correctly. And then upload it back to you.

听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 So, the whole process, your episodes are usually about half an hour, it鈥檚 usually about an hour and a half to type and then half an hour to proof.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 Brilliant. So, when we get it in an email we then proof it again. Sorry, Alison, we do.

ALISON-听听听听听听听听听听 No, that鈥檚 absolutely fine [laughter].

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 And then we upload it to our podcast page where so many people say that they read it, not just deaf people, but also people with auditory processing disorders, autistic people. I have to ask you, because there are a lot of transcription softwares out there now and stuff that you can just, like, pile the audio into it and not that long later it spits out some text, are you worried that they鈥檙e going to take your job?

ALISON-听听听听听听听听听听 Maybe in the future but, I mean, this has been happening for many, many years now. I mean, I鈥檝e been doing this job for 20 years and right at the beginning I remember going along to a conference where they were talking about AI basically that would be doing this, and so I thought it was round the corner. But honestly, 20 years later I鈥檝e yet to see one that can do it anywhere near as well as a physical person. It鈥檚 a bit like my other job, which is teaching, I always know when a student has done homework using Google Translate.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 [Laughs]

ALISON-听听听听听听听听听听 It鈥檚 as clear as day [laughs].

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 Because you teach English as a foreign language, don鈥檛 you?

ALISON-听听听听听听听听听听 And French as a foreign language, yes, both.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 Sometimes in our podcast there are voices, happily, that are maybe a little bit different to your average voice, a bit untypical. How do you deal with those?

ALISON-听听听听听听听听听听 As sympathetically as I possibly can because obviously you want to be able to get that person鈥檚 style of communication across. What you can do with the software is slow it down, and speed it up which is useful when you鈥檙e proofing. So, if I am having trouble I can slow it down; so obviously play it 100%, I can slow it down to 80% or 90%. Because what I鈥檝e learnt, especially with your podcast, is that you have such a diverse range of people with physical, mental health difficulties, speech difficulties as well, and sometimes you鈥檝e had people on who have actually used a piece of software to speak, so it鈥檚 my job to make sure that people who are reading it are getting the same experience as those who are listening to it.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah, we have lots of disabled people on our team who make our podcast. But actually you鈥檝e got a connection with disability as well, don鈥檛 you, Alison?

ALISON-听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah. It was strange actually because I think it probably was about the time I started to do Ouch that we discovered that our two sons have a disability that鈥檚 called Ataxia, which is, in a nutshell it鈥檚 a neuromuscular disease. There are lots of different types, Friedrich鈥檚 is the most common. The one that they鈥檝e got appears in adolescence, so they were both about puberty when we started to see signs of that. And so when you have parents coming on talking about their children, you know, I know immediately how difficult that is when you鈥檙e trying to deal鈥�trying to make your family as normal as you possibly can whilst also navigating schools and different institutions, trying to get the help that you need. And it鈥檚 interesting for me to get a perspective on it living in France as well, because obviously I haven鈥檛 been through that in the UK system.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 What is the difference in France do you think? I know you haven鈥檛 been through the UK but you鈥檙e from the UK so I鈥檓 sure you鈥檝e spoken to people.

ALISON-听听听听听听听听听听 I think I鈥檓 fairly familiar with it from listening to your podcasts [laughs].

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 Yeah, well there you go.

ALISON-听听听听听听听听听听 I think we probably have to jump through less hoops to get help here. What we鈥檝e found is we got a lot of help with school. When I talk to just family back home it seems to be a lot longer process to get that help that you may need in school. So, both of them had an assistant with them in class, not for lack of comprehension or anything like that, it was just because their writing is so bad because it does affect your mobility basically, so they don鈥檛 write very well, neither of them. That was all put in place very, very quickly. One of them now he鈥檚 studying down in Bordeaux and he has a studio apartment paid for, he has his course paid for, and he gets some money towards his studies. So, even though it鈥檚 not what you would ever choose for your children I must say that they deal with it very well, and that makes us deal with it very well, because we don鈥檛 have to jump through hoops to get the things that they need.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 What have your favourite bits been?

ALISON-听听听听听听听听听听 The ones that I remember most are things when you have people on describing comic events. And I do remember you had some people invited on to do some shows at the Edinburgh Fringe, people were telling their comedy stories. I remember one guy had Crohn鈥檚 disease and he was talking his story.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 Oh I think he ended up having to 鈥� spoiler alert 鈥� I think he ended up having to pooh in a bin.

ALISON-听听听听听听听听听听 That鈥檚 the one, yeah!

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 That was Storytelling Live at the Edinburgh Festival.

ALISON-听听听听听听听听听听 [Laughs] that one.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 That was before Access All, that was back in the Ouch days, but I love that that鈥檚 what made an impression on you. Alison Kingsley, on behalf of everybody who reads your transcript every single week thank you so much.

ALISON-听听听听听听听听听听 Thank you. And thank you for letting do it, I thoroughly enjoy them. They鈥檙e by far my favourite job.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 [Typing] we鈥檙e at the final set of clips from our celebrity guests and friends of Access All of the best pieces of advice another disabled person has given them. Let鈥檚 hear them:

ADE-听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 Hello Access All. Ade Adepitan here. Best piece of advice given to me by a disabled person came from a good old wheelchair basketball friend of mine many years ago, and his name was Steve Caine. And he told me early on in my career to, 鈥淪tay open minded and look to every aspect of your world in order to learn from technology, from even the most unexpected place. Just because someone or something doesn鈥檛 do things in the way that society expects them to do doesn鈥檛 mean they can鈥檛 be brilliant, and it doesn鈥檛 mean we can鈥檛 learn from them鈥�.

SAMANTHA-听听 Slow down, [laughs] slow down. That is one of the best pieces of advice. And being a little kinder and gentler to myself. I feel like sometimes I needed to keep up with my non-disabled peers in everything that I did, whether that鈥檚 putting my make-up on as fast and getting ready for an interview. So, slowing down and telling people that things might not be as quickly feasible, but that鈥檚 okay.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听听听听听 Ade Adepitan and Samantha Renke. Well, that鈥檚 it. I hope you enjoyed this 100th episode of Access All. Thanks to my guests, Rose Ayling-Ellis, our transcriber, Alison Kingsley, and the lady from the sleeper trains talking toilet door. Thanks to the people who make this show, past and present. Today in particular thanks to the editors, Damon Rose and Alex Lewis; thanks to our producers, Drew, Niamh, Dan, Alex and Beth. But most of all thanks to you for listening to Access All. You are who make this podcast. You鈥檙e who we are all about. Please keep talking to us, keep telling your story. You can find us on Instagram and Twitter @AccessAll. You can email accessall@bbc.co.uk. For this week thank you and goodbye.

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