Main content

Climate Change: As seen by disabled people in peril

Two disabled Pacific islanders on life as the sea rises.

From fresh-water wells flooded by salty sea water, to avoiding inaccessible emergency shelters, we hear from Ari in Samoa and Melvina in the Solomon
Islands about the impact climate change is having on their very exposed corner of the world.

It comes as COP28, the UN summit which convenes annually to try and solve the climate crisis - draws to a close in Dubai. This year’s event was meant to be the most inclusive ever – but was it really? The European Disability Forum’s Gordon Ratray, who attended, gives us his lowdown along with Jodie Santos from The Disability Justice Project who is based in Massachusetts, USA.

With Christmas party season under way, presenters Nikki Fox and Emma Tracey give their best tips for accessible fashion, with help from a couple of YouTubers.

And world-renowned poet Raymond Antrobus joins the duo to talk about poetry, getting his work on the GCSE syllabus and his children’s book
Can Bears Ski? About his deaf experience it has been turned into a theatre show that he can’t wait to take his son to see.

Recorded and mixed by Dave O’Neill. Produced by: Beth Rose, Emma Tracey, Damon Rose, Alex Collins and Betty Douglas. The editor is Damon Rose, senior editor Sam Bonham.

β€œAlexa, ask the ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ for Access All” plays the latest edition of the programme. Follow us on X, formerly Twitter, @ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔAccessAll and on email we’re
accessall@bbc.co.uk.

Release date:

Available now

39 minutes

Transcript

Μύ

11th December 2023

bbc.co.uk/accessall

Access All – episode 82

Presented by Nikki Fox and Emma Tracey

Μύ

Μύ

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ So, we’ve been on air for about 18 months now, and we’re about to move on to the fourth disability minister in that time. We heard the news last week that Tom Pursglove, who we’ve interviewed on this show, well he has moved position in government after Robert Jenrick resigned. So, now Tom is the minister for legal immigration. And presently there is an opening for another disability minister.

SOPHIE-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ You’re joking! Not another one!

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ So, let’s have a little look back as to how many disability ministers there have been in the last seven years when Theresa May was Prime Minister. Go for it, love:

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ We’ve just waved goodbye to Tom Pursglove from August 2022 to just about last week some time. Then we’ve got Claire Coutinho for a couple of weeks.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ We never met her.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Chloe Smith from 2021 to 2022. Justin Tomlinson from 2019 to 2021.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Twice. Two separate occasions he was disability minister.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Sarah Newton, 2017 to 2019. And Penny Mordaunt, 2016 to 2017. Sophie Morgan has posted on this, has she?

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Yeah, she posted a story. And I thought she kind of summed up the frustrations that when you have to deal with ministers a lot, trying to push for change. So, she has been talking and meeting with Tom and the team quite a lot recently, and she said, β€œI felt like I was making headway and now he’s gone who do we pick up with?”

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Yeah, you’ve got to go right back to the beginning.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ All that momentum completely lost. And I think that is the frustration from disabled people and campaigners that have to write, they have to speak to these departments; when there’s a roundabout of ministers it’s kind of difficult for them to have the consistency that they need to push forward the important points that impact disabled people.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Well, the DWP say that they haven’t filled the position yet, so we’ll keep you updated.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Okay. No news so far.

MUSIC-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Theme music.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ It’s Access All, the ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ’s disability and mental health podcast. I’m Nikki Fox, and as always I’m in London.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ And I’m Emma Tracey and I’m in Edinburgh.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ So, Em, when it comes to looking good – which you always do by the way, always, always – but looking good and accessibility, you know, being able to move around and wear stuff that’s kind of hassle free, what are your top tips? I know you’re going to give me the lowdown later so don’t answer that question now.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Okay [laughs]. Plus we’ve got Raymond Antrobus, international award-winning poet joining us in a bit. As well as catching us all up on his news he’ll be performing a poem for us. We did do this interview a few weeks ago, and the poem is about bedtime stories with his father when he was a deaf child. I can tell you it’s absolutely fantastic.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Oh, it really is. It’s such a treat, so do stay tuned for that. And coming up in a second we’ll be communicating with some far-flung islands in the Pacific Ocean. I love this. But serious point, we’re hearing directly from disabled people experiencing the effects of climate change. A very interesting subject that one.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ There is a transcript of this podcast every single week. Follow us on X and we will post a link every time. We’re @ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔAccessAll. And you can also hear us by saying, Alexa ask ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ Sounds for Access All.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ COP28, the annual UN summit where the world gets together to try and solve the climate crisis, well it’s just coming to an end. It said that disabled people are some of the worst affected groups when it comes to climate change. Here in the UK, so far at least, we’ve been relatively cushioned from the growing environmental changes that are happening.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Now, COP this year has been in Dubai and was billed as the most inclusive COP so far. Earlier I spoke to Gordon Ratray from The European Disability Forum who was there. And he’s a wheelchair user, so the obvious question for Gordon was if that included disabled people too.

GORDON-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ There hasn’t been a great difference in accessibility at COP28 compared with previous COPs in my experience; especially when it comes to access to information. For example, things like sign interpretation, captioning, information presented or provided in advance in easy to read or plain language format just doesn’t exist. The electronic information available is also quite limited. That’s talking about the information regarding negotiations and a possibility to input to the documents and the discussions going into the final outcome documents. Getting around, the place is huge, and there are some provisions, there are some accessibility buggies which are there to help people get around, but for some people who use wheelchairs who need some support it’s still challenging.

ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ The bar is still quite low regarding the most accessible and inclusive COP ever.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ And in terms of disabled people being given an opportunity, do they have more of a chance to speak now?

GORDON-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ It is getting better, but even when you go to events that are around human rights you see that disability isn’t mentioned by the presenters. So, I’m talking here about so-called mainstream events.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ And I’d imagine the activists are kind of getting better and better at raising their hands and knowing how to get their voices heard?

GORDON-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ That’s for sure. This is definitely the COP which has had the most representation of disabled people that I have seen. We have daily meetings for what we call the disability group, and every day there have been more people attending those meetings. We’ve been meeting more people with disabilities, more disabled people here that weren’t aware that we are active as a group. We’ve got people from Latin America, people from Africa, people from Asia, people from Europe; the strength of the movement is improving.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ That was Gordon Ratray from The European Disability Forum speaking from COP in Dubai.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Now, on the line we’ve got two disabled people who live in the more affected areas of the world. In the Pacific island of Samoa we have got Ari. Hello Ari, how are you?

ARI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Hello, I’m Ari, I’m very well thank you.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Thank you so much for joining us. And in the Solomon Islands we’ve got Melvina on the line. Hello Melvina.

MELVINA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Hello. Good evening from Solomon Islands everyone.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Oh, it’s so lovely to have you on. We know we’ve got a bit of a dodgy internet connection. We should just get stuck into the main topic, which is the environment. And I’m going to start first of all, Melvina, I don’t think you’ll mind me saying you’ve got mobility difficulties and that causes you problems in the heat. So, could you tell me a little bit about that?

MELVINA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Yeah, actually the heat here is not normal compared to before when I was little and up to this time, it’s like it really increased. And we cannot work under the sun for a very long time because it’s really hot. We can get headache or fever or even sunburn. My movement is so slow, and so when working in the sun or trying to do activities in the hot sun, yeah, it’s really affecting.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ And the sea levels are rising, aren’t they? And that can contaminate the fresh water in the wells. And I just wondered what solution your government has come up with. Am I right in thinking there are also access difficulties with getting water as well?

MELVINA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ [Line breaks up]

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ We’re having quite bad technical difficulties, Melvina, but I think what you were saying, and I know what you’ve been saying to us beforehand, is that the water tanks aren’t particularly accessible because the taps are too high for many wheelchair users. Which would be really difficult because obviously you’re a lot lower down when you’re in a wheelchair, and if you can’t reach them you can’t reach them. I think that’s quite a big problem for you.

ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ And I’m just going to bring in here Jodie Santos who’s been waiting very patiently on the line. We’re going to come to Ari as well, so stay there, Ari. But Jodie works for, well you head up The Disability Justice Project, don’t you? And you gave smartphones so that people could document what’s going on, well disabled people could document what’s going on when it comes to climate related issues. And Jodie, you’re quite familiar with Melvina, aren’t you, and a few of the issues that she faces where she is?

JODIE-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Yes, that’s correct. So, I’m the executive director of The Disability Justice Project, and we train disabled human rights defenders in the global south in documentary storytelling. And this summer we went to the Pacific Islands and we trained five fellows, and Ari and Melvina were among those fellows. The way that we trained them how to make documentaries is with the iPhone, which is more accessible, particularly for blind and low vision users.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ I know Melvina was also telling us before – and I’m sorry I’m having to talk for you here, Melvina; it’s just because of a dodgy line because you are so far away – but you were talking about how people grow food on the land because the markets are often too expensive, but it’s getting harder because when flooded the water heats up and the vegetables get cooked in the ground; which is an extraordinary thought. I hadn’t even thought about that. Were you aware of that, Jodie?

JODIE-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ I wasn’t aware of that. I do know that obviously climate change is affecting the growing season so it’s taking longer to grow vegetables. For a lot of people with disabilities in the Pacific Islands access to formal employment is harder, and so a lot of them do rely on sustainable livelihoods, including gardening and fishing. And those have been severely impacted by climate change, which is affecting food security, water security, some of those issues that Melvina touched on.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Yeah. And Melvina when she was with us she was also talking about the rising heat and the rising temperature. And Ari, we were talking about that before we started recording, weren’t we, and you were saying it’s getting a lot hotter where you are?

ARI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Yes. Here in Samoa the highest degrees that we go up to is 31. However, we have 31 degrees almost throughout the year now and it’s quite hot. Imagine having 31 degrees; we don’t even have seasons like winter or summer or spring. So, imagine living with that heat for most of the time.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Ari, I’m told that in Samoa you’re working on making emergency information more accessible, and you’ve been quite a big part of that, haven’t you?

ARI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Yes. This particular project was done in collaboration with our Ministry of the Environment and Natural Resources, where they provided booklets that had info for preparedness and post-disaster preparedness and response. Disasters like floods, earthquakes, fires, landslides, you name it. So, at the Samoa Blind Person’s Association we were tasked to produce 200 copies into braille.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Amazing.

ARI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ And it’s something that we are very proud of.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Sign language, that’s also become available in Samoa too?

ARI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Sign language of course we have started to produce, say for example, disaster preparedness adverts on TV. However, this is inconsistent and needs to be followed up and improved upon. And perhaps a government budgetary allocation would help with that because most of these projects are funded by aid overseas, but since Samoa has ratified the UN CRPD in 2016 it’s now about time for our government to take ownership. The floods came at a time when they were not expecting it, because our flood period usually starts in what we call the cyclone period usually starts from November to April. However, the floods occurred in the middle of June. And this wheelchair user in particular was quite terrified and shocked that the flooding came and affected his village on one of the big islands called SavaiΚ»i. His furniture was ruined.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ So, he wasn’t prepared?

ARI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Yes, he wasn’t prepared. And that’s the thing, the weather patterns have changed. So, this must be due to the greenhouse effect or whatever decisions that big countries make, and then this has an adverse impact on us.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Hey Jodie, I’ve just been told in my ear that you’ve got a story about someone using mattresses for safety. Is that right?

JODIE-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Yes. So, one of the places that we visited over the summer was Fiji, and we went to what’s called an informal settlement. Which means that people basically live there not legally, so they build their houses, they don’t own the land. And again, a high percentage of persons with disabilities. So, one of the places that we visited we talked to the woman who’s the disability liaison, and she was basically talking about how many evacuation centres in Fiji aren’t accessible, and so people would rather stay at home and take the risks that come with that than go to one of these evacuation centres. So, in the settlement where she lives what families would do, particularly for wheelchair users, is they would stack mattresses as high as they could and they would put the family member on top of the mattress and then they would climb up, and they would wait out the flooding until it was over. And this woman was saying that when you’re around standing water for a long period of time it can lead to an increase in diseases. But again, these families would rather do that than endure the indignities associated with inaccessible evacuation centres.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ So, you’ve heard of all of these stories, and I’ve just heard more now from Ari and Melvina, and it makes me think is there enough emphasis put on disability when we’re talking about climate change. Where do we fit in that conversation? What needs to be done? Because it doesn’t seem like there’s a great deal of anything going on.

JODIE-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Yeah, I think that’s true. So, by international law countries are obligated to include and consider persons with disabilities in their climate response plans. But there was a study, I think it was in 2022, that of the 192 parties to the Paris Accord for instance, only 35 had actually mentioned persons with disabilities in their climate pledges. It’s one of the most affected populations and the governments are not including them, both in the planning process, having a seat at the table, and also in their response plans in general.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ This won’t be the last time we speak about this by any stretch. But thank you so much for that fascinating chat. Thank you to Jodie. Thank you so much Ari, from Samoa, and also Melvina from the Solomon Islands. Thank you for joining us.

JINGLE-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Access All.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Well, Ems, you know how we’re getting closer to Christmas and New Year?

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Uh-huh.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ And lots of have got more social events in the calendar, haven’t we?

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Some of us do [laughs].

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ I’m dreading it all to be honest. I’ve literally taken so many out, Ems. But I have got one quite important one and I’m already thinking, well I have been thinking for the last month, what am I going to wear. I can’t find anything, Ems. I’ve lost my style.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Because honestly there’s times when you do look in your wardrobe, or feel in your wardrobe if you’re going to be really specific about it – because I’m blind, you know.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ No way!

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Yes, yes I am.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ I’m sorry, what?

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ [Laughter] I am so sorry for keeping this from you. But you do, you just try on all your stuff and nothing feels right at all, does it?

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Yeah. And there can be added problems, can’t there, of clothes not fitting as well you’d like them to, like if you’re me you sit on your tush all day. Jeans are often quite uncomfortable and a bit bulgy in the places that you don’t want them to bulge, you know.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ We’re going to talk about jeans in a minute.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Are we?

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ We are. But remember Betty? Betty worked with us for a little while; she wasn’t on air but she was behind the scenes beavering away.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Yes.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ And she got really interested in disability fashion and fashion hacks, so how you can take the clothes that don’t fit that well and get them to suit you or find another way around it. And she was really interested about it because she can’t feel her legs so well, and she forgets to keep them warm and then they get really, really cold and numb. So, she adds big furry legwarmers to her look. And she’s a very young, cool person so she can obviously pull it off.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Hey listen, I’m all for the legwarmers; my boyfriend’s got me into them. We call them the fluffies and they’re amazing; they go over the knees. I’ve actually got a work wear version on now.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Oh, you’ve got legwarmers on right now?

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Yeah.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ What do they feel like?

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Just lovely and fluffy and warm.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Okay. Is it like a scarf for your legs? Like a snood for your legs?

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Yeah. I’ve got the ones with the feet, but you can have them with the cutouts so they’re just literally legwarmers.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Are they not just socks then?

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ No. Well, they’re over the knee socks, an over the knee sock version. But I have got the legwarmer versions as well. When I keep my legs warm they don’t ache as much. Yeah, the grandma likes the legwarmers.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ That’s really good. And it’s not just grandma. What else do you do? What other fashion workarounds do you put in place then?

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Well, I buy everything, if I can, in a tall version, which is hilarious because I am not much more than 5ft.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ So, why do you buy tall?

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ I’ve told you this before, it’s very boring, but I wear big biker boots and then underneath those biker boots I have to wear very big, bulbous splints.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Right.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ I love the biker boots, but the splints kind of misshape the boots quite a lot, so it makes them look a little…you know. When you’re wearing a glam dress and you’ve got these hoofers on your feet and a pair of legwarmers it’s a very difficult look to pull off.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ To pull off [laughter].

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ So, I tend to wear dresses that completely cover. So, literally will cover, they’ll go right over the toes of my boots. And then it just looks like a seamless line. Do you know what I mean?

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Well, it’s good that you don’t have to walk in them then, isn’t it?

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Why?

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Because they’re over the toe of your boots so you’d stand on it, wouldn’t you?

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Oh I see what you’re saying, Ems. I do apologise. Well, no, I do walk actually in them; I just have to hoik it up.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ And you always talk about stretch as well.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Always. Always a minimum 2% to 3% elastane in anything I buy. And I’ve tried it without. I saw a lovely silk dress the other day and I was like, that’ll be perfect for the One Show, they’ll really like that. Had no stretch in it and I was like, why did I do it, I should have known, because it just all pulls in the wrong place. I’ve got a little bit, I’ve got something that resembles a waist, but there’s something there. Whereas if you’ve got no stretch it kind of just hangs in all the wrong places and it just makes you look a bit boxy. And also not very comfortable, and also rises up quite high so it doesn’t cover your boots. If you’ve got the stretch then it follows the shape of your body and goes over your feet. This is what I’ve learnt over time. So, I online shop all the time; I never, ever go to…

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ And you look at the ingredients?

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Yeah, and I look at the ingredients. I’m like, they’ll do me.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Because elastane makes it stretch basically.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Yeah. What do you do, Em?

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Well, it’s very much about being comfortable. So, if I have a piece of clothing on and I’m not quite sure how it sits – and you’ve seen me during the podcast sometimes if I have a wrap top that I’m not sure about, or a top that goes down a bit low or has a bit of a funny shoulder thing going on – because I can’t see myself I’m never actually quite sure whether I have it right or not. And even if I’ve had it right before maybe I won’t remember what way to pop the shoulder. So, I’m very keen on having something very straightforward and comfortable; which sounds pretty boring.

I also wear a crossbody bag so I can have my hands free, with lots of pockets, because it’s very hard to find a bin when you can’t see so it’s usually full of rubbish. But also you want to have everything on you so you don’t have to go and find it or ask someone for it, or get it out of a machine if it’s a tampon or something like that. And also I’ve come to wearing comfortable shoes, because I know I’m getting older, I’m in my 40s now, and that is a thing. And also high heels aren’t as important as they were years ago. But honestly, I need to be able to walk.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Yeah.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Especially if I’m being guided by someone I don’t know as well, or I’m in a new place, I have to be really honest with myself and say look, I just need to be able to get from A to B without piling more attention on myself.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ These are the things we have to think about was we get older, isn’t it, just decisions.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ They’re decisions based on comfort and safety.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ So, the lovely Betty, who you mentioned, who worked with us, she searched social media for other fashion hacks. And one innovative wheelchair user apparently tapes coins to the inside of the bottom of her dress to stop it from lifting up in the wind. Genius that!

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Yeah. I think we could all do that actually.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Also YouTuber Gem Hubbard she has got a bit of a clever workaround. Have a listen to this, Emma Tracey:

GEM-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ My biggest tip for wheelchair users would be to choose maternity jeans or maternity trousers. This is because they are so much more affordable than adaptive trousers, but they’re really comfortable around the waist. Also when you’re moving about, like transferring in and out of your wheelchair, they don’t ride down, showing anyone a flash of anything they shouldn’t see.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ She’s so right.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ You were really agreeing with that.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Yeah, 100%. I used to wear jeans all the time, Ems. And you know when I sit on the scooter, I’ve got a little window on the back where you can see my bum-bum.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Why?

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ I’ve no idea. I mean, you can’t see anything if you’re dressed properly, but for years I used to go round with my jeans, and I used to wear thongs, and every time I sat down the jeans slid right down.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ [laughs]

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ So, I completely, Gem’s right, maternity all the way.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ That’s very Bridget Jones, isn’t it?

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ For many reasons [laughs].

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Sticking with trousers, apparently get big loops sewn into either side of your trousers, so if you have trouble pulling them up and down they give you a bit more purchase and you can just yank them up and down. Would that be useful?

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Yes. Jean loops are my best friend. For years when I used to walk that’s how I used to walk, I used to hook my thumbs in my jean loops around the waist.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Right. So, the bigger the loops the better?

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ The bigger the loops the better. We also had video creator, Blind Tobes, sent us this:

TOBES-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Okay, so a couple of fashion hacks that I have as a blind man. Number one is when I’ve got two items of clothes that feel exactly the same, it might be two t-shirts from the same brand but they might be in different colours, I’ll put something called a bump-on on a hanger so that I can feel which hanger has, say, the white t-shirt and the hanger without the bump-on is the black t-shirt. And I’ll keep that the same throughout the whole time that they’re in my wardrobe.

ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ And then the second hack is meticulously organising things. So, my wardrobe will always go in order of t-shirts, jumpers, jackets, coats, just so that I don’t have to waste time feeling around the whole wardrobe to find what I need; I can jump straight to what I want.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Yeah, Tobes, amazing.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ That’s the dream.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Are you as organised as Tobes?

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ No I am not. And the only way I would ever be is if I had literally a wardrobe cleaner who came in every week and arranged my wardrobes, because that is never going to happen for me. I just shove things in. I’m always in a hurry. I pull things out, throw them on the bed. I just am not capable I think.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ But you have got a lot going on though. You’ve got kiddywinks and all that, and a husband and a career.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Before I had any of that going on…

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Oh okay, you’re just not.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ …I had a floordrobe.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ [Laughs]

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Brilliant ideas, Blind Tobes, but unfortunately I’m just not going to be able to achieve them.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ We love hearing all of these so please do carry on getting in touch with us. You can email us accessall@bbc.co.uk, or we’re @ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔAccessAll on the socials.

JINGLE-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Access All with Nikki Fox.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Our next guest, Raymond Antrobus, is a hugely successful poet and writer who was named Sunday Times Young Writer of the Year in 2019, and he’s also won the Ted Hughes Award. Now, some of his poems have even been included in the GCSE syllabus, which must be so unbelievably cool. Raymond, it is so lovely to meet you.

RAYMOND-ΜύΜύΜύ Thank you for having me.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ To top it all off, Raymond, who is deaf, published his debut children’s book, Can Bears Ski? – it’s such a good title – in 2020, which has now been turned into a theatre production. Raymond, you have got so much going on.

RAYMOND-ΜύΜύΜύ I do.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ When he came intoΜύ the studio, Emma, I was like, β€œAre you tired?” [Laughter] How is the theatre show going?

RAYMOND-ΜύΜύΜύ It’s been very emotional to see even from afar. I haven’t actually seen the play in person yet. My aim is to take my son, who’s two and a half, to go and see it. I want to see how he responds to it, because the book Can Bears Ski? is on his bookshelf, and every now and again he gets it down. He has no idea that I’ve written it, so it’s always such a proud moment for me when he picks it. He picks his own books.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Oh amazing.

RAYMOND-ΜύΜύΜύ Oh, you’re picking Can Bears Ski? Okay. I want to reveal to him almost when we go to see the theatre, it’s daddy’s book, you know [laughs].

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Well, tell us about the book and how it all came about.

RAYMOND-ΜύΜύΜύ I’d written a poem called Happy Birthday Moon, which was based on a children’s picture book that my dad used to read to me. It’s one of my earliest memories being read this story about this bear that lives out in the woods, and it’s this bear’s birthday and he looks up at the moon at night and says, it’s my birthday. And the bear’s voice echoes through the valley, and as he hears the echo he thinks that it’s the moon speaking to him. I just loved that book as a child, and I loved the way that my dad read it and performed it me as well. He kind of put me on his chest and had the book out in front of him. And he didn’t know that I was deaf at the time. So, my dad had a very kind of deep voice, I could feel the vibration of the story. I read that poem at the Bradford Literature Festival and in the audience were some people who work in children’s publishing and they said, β€œWe really love your work. Have you ever considered writing for children?” And I said, β€œNo, I don’t think that’s my forte”. So, I at first declined writing for children.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ That was a brave thing.

RAYMOND-ΜύΜύΜύ I just didn’t feel like it really aligned. But then the following week I happened to be starting a residency in a deaf school, and I went into their library and I didn’t see any books with deaf protagonists. And I’m not saying there aren’t any; I’m saying in this particular library…

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ You didn’t see any.

RAYMOND-ΜύΜύΜύ …I didn’t see any. And it just kind of made me think here’s a place on a shelf I would love to be. So, I actually emailed, got back to the children’s publishers, her name’s Maria and she was like, β€œGreat come on board” and I wrote the story.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Hi Maria, yeah it’s Raymond, I’ve changed my mind.

RAYMOND-ΜύΜύΜύ [Laughs]

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ You know the title, Can Bears Ski? your dad didn’t know you were deaf.

RAYMOND-ΜύΜύΜύ No.ΜύΜύΜύ

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ You didn’t know you were deaf.

RAYMOND-ΜύΜύΜύ No.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ And so what’s that got to do with the title? Has that got anything to do with the title?

RAYMOND-ΜύΜύΜύ So, Can Bear’s Ski? there’s a reveal, there’s a reason for the title. And the reveal is…[laughs] I don’t know if I want to reveal.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ [Laughs] oh, he’s playing it coy.

RAYMOND-ΜύΜύΜύ There’s a world, and I do this with poetry as well, there’s a world in which I’m trying to create a kind of deaf logic and I’m trying to honour that experience so that it doesn’t become this thing that’s like you’re living in a wrong way or you’re living in a mistake. Can Bears Ski? [laughs] also visually offers a lot.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Yes, it offers a lot.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ But in terms of someone who’s not visual reading the book it’s very emotive and it’s very illustrative of the life of a deaf kid who doesn’t know he’s deaf, the vibrations that he recognises. Does that relate to your own time as a deaf small child?

RAYMOND-ΜύΜύΜύ I hope so. I think the book ultimately and me as a child ultimately, and many of us, we’re looking for ways to be understood. That is the main atmosphere that I’m trying to convey. So, the deafness and the condition of deafness is almost coincidental. Because I get so many emails and messages through Instagram about this book, from a range of people with different disabilities and conditions and ways of being. And I also get a lot of messages from grandparents.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Oh okay.

RAYMOND-ΜύΜύΜύ So, some of them who are recently deafened, and they say that the book has helped them communicate with their grandchild about their own deafness. It’s great.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ That’s interesting because there are a lot of older deaf people who are newly deaf who are very misunderstood, aren’t they?

RAYMOND-ΜύΜύΜύ Yes.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ People start to think that they’re maybe less able or that the memory is starting to go or something like that.

RAYMOND-ΜύΜύΜύ Yeah.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ That’s really misunderstood. Is that something that you’ve seen?

RAYMOND-ΜύΜύΜύ It is. It’s that whole thing of like it’s not us who are disabled; it’s society itself that disables us.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Yeah.

RAYMOND-ΜύΜύΜύ And this kind of idea that there is one way to be, you’re either abled or disabled, and it is kind of that that binary is false.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ What was it like when you did get a diagnosis?

RAYMOND-ΜύΜύΜύ I was six when I was first told; I was seven when I got all the equipment, all the therapy. And in some ways I feel like I’m living with survivor’s guilt, because the kind of support I got, I got two top of the range hearing aids; radio mics; I got speech therapy; I got even a hearing therapy where I learnt about sound and how it moves, like having your own personal sound physicist; I went to a deaf school, that was also part of a mainstream school. I’ve had support that 99.9% of deaf people now do not get.Μύ

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ But Raymond, you can’t feel guilty about that. You were just lucky like that.

RAYMOND-ΜύΜύΜύ Yeah.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ How did you manage to get that result? Was your mum a big part of you getting that support?

RAYMOND-ΜύΜύΜύ Yes. There are three people specifically who championed me: my mother is one of them; and the other two are teachers of the deaf, Penny and Renata, who kind of took me on and made sure that I got support while I was in Hackney, and then when I went to a school in Islington.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ And look what happened when you were able to reach your potential: you became a world famous poet. I’d love to know how has being deaf shaped your poetry? Because Nikki and I were just talking before you came along saying, oh we find so much poetry so inaccessible; whereas yours is just wonderful, brilliant, easy to catch.

RAYMOND-ΜύΜύΜύ I appreciate that, because that has also been a criticism of my poetry that it’s too β€œaccessible”.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Why?

RAYMOND-ΜύΜύΜύ Well, there’s an idea that poetry ought to be coded. But this is something that I really have honed and curated in terms of my style, I think, as a poet, in the sense that I have gone through most of my life struggling to be understood, and so clarity is really important to me. I want to be in conversation with people who are open and curious and can relate in those ways.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ You can do this even more now, because we mentioned this in the introduction, didn’t we, that some of your work has been included in the GCSE syllabus. Which I was saying to Emma as well, that you’ve got to be like, oh job done, I can retire with a pina colada now, happy days.

RAYMOND-ΜύΜύΜύ [Laughs] not quite.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ No?

RAYMOND-ΜύΜύΜύ It doesn’t really pay. But it is an honour, it is a privilege, and it is honestly something that I never dreamed of happening [laughs]. It’s funny.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Amazing.

RAYMOND-ΜύΜύΜύ It makes me laugh.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ And we’ve spoken about your work so much now, and I’m sure there are listeners that have heard and absolutely love you, but for those that haven’t do you want to read a little bit for us?

RAYMOND-ΜύΜύΜύ Sure.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ That would be wonderful.

RAYMOND-ΜύΜύΜύ I think I’ll read Happy Birthday Moon, which is the poem that I mentioned.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Yeah!

RAYMOND-ΜύΜύΜύ And I should say that when I write poems titles in poems can be very difficult. So, when I wrote this first draft I wanted to ground myself in the reason I was writing a poem, so I wrote a question at the top of the page. And that question was: where does my language begin? And so I wanted the poem to answer that question. So, as I read this I would like to invite every listener into that question: where does your language begin? Who do you have to thank for that language?

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Nice.

RAYMOND-ΜύΜύΜύ And what are you doing with that language now?

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Swearing too much in my case.

RAYMOND-ΜύΜύΜύ Yeah, you’ve got to moderate, adjust. Okay, Happy birthday, Moon:

Dad reads aloud. I follow his finger across the page. sometimes his finger moves past words, tracing white space. He makes the Moon say something new every night to his deaf son who slurs his speech. Sometimes his finger moves past words, tracing white space. Tonight he gives the Moon my name, but I can't say it, his deaf son who slurs his speech. Dad taps the page, says, try again. Tonight he gives the Moon my name, but I can't say it. I say Rain-an Akabok. He laughs. Dad taps the page, says, try again, but I like making him laugh. I say my mistake again. I say Rain-an Akabok. He laughs, says, Raymond you're something else. I like making him laugh. I say my mistake again. Rain-an Akabok. What else will help us? He says, Raymond you're something else. I'd like to be the Moon, the bear, even the rain. Rain-an Akabok, what else will help us hear each other, really hear each other? I'd like to be the Moon, the bear, even the rain. Dad makes the Moon say something new every night and we hear each other, really hear each other. As Dad reads aloud, I follow his finger across the page.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Oh, I just love that. I really love that.

RAYMOND-ΜύΜύΜύ Thank you.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ I’m not a huge poetry consumer.

RAYMOND-ΜύΜύΜύ Thank you so much.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Your parents must be so proud?

RAYMOND-ΜύΜύΜύ My mum is an English woman so she compliments me in the way that English people do: it’s always a very backhanded way. It’s like, β€œWell done, now what else are you going to do”? It’s like there’s always something else [laughter].

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Keep moving forward.

RAYMOND-ΜύΜύΜύ Yeah [laughs].

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Honestly, thank you so much for coming in, Raymond, today. It’s been an absolute pleasure. Can Bears Ski? has been adapted for the stage by Definitely Theatre and the Pied Piper Theatre Company and will be playing in theatres across the country until next February. Where can people find out more, lovely?

RAYMOND-ΜύΜύΜύ People can follow Definitely Theatre on Instagram. People can follow me on Instagram Raymond_Antrobus. I really want this to get out there so please do come along.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ I love it. Raymond, you’ve been an absolute treat.

RAYMOND-ΜύΜύΜύ Thank you.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Thank you.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ That was the wonderful Raymond Antrobus everyone. It really was something quite special sitting next to him, especially while he read that beautiful poem. It really was lovely.

Of course thinking of poetry and poets, also on the minds of so many people this week the revolutionary groundbreaking poet, Benjamin Zephaniah, who sadly died a few days ago at the age of 65. I always loved watching him on TV. I thought he was just magical actually. Like me he was also dyslexic, so I thought I’d share a few words with you about his take on being dyslexic. He wrote, β€˜In many ways being dyslexic is a natural way to be. If you look at a pictorial language like Chinese you can see the word for a woman because the character looks like a woman, the word for a house looks like a house; early languages were like that. It is a strange step to go from that to a squiggle that represents a sound, which is how we read and write here’.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ That’s so beautiful.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ I know.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ I wouldn’t have known that about Chinese symbols. It’s so, so interesting. We’re back next week, and it’s the show before Christmas. And for Christmas week itself we’ll be here with a very special episode with the best of Access All from 2023.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Like, subscribe, leave us a comment, double like us if you can. I mean, how you double like I don’t know, but give it a bash. We’re on ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ Sounds and wherever you get your podcasts. Just look for Access All. Spread the Christmas word if you can, people. And until next time, goodbye.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Goodbye.

[Trailer for Newscast]

MALE-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Newscast is the unscripted chat behind the headlines.

FEMALE-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ It’s informed but informal.

MALE-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ We pick the day’s top stories and we find experts who can really dig into them.

MALE-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ We use our colleagues in the newsroom and our contacts.

MALE-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Some people pick up the phone rather faster than others.

CALLER-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Hello?

FEMALE-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ We sometimes literally run around the ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ building to grab the very best guests.

MALE-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Join us for daily news chat.

FEMALE-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ To get you ready for today’s conversations.

MALE-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Newscast, listen on ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ Sounds.

Μύ

Podcast

Get the latest episodes of the Access All podcast the moment a new episode goes live!

Podcast