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Who in the Whoniverse is Ruth Madeley?

The actor on her adventures through space and time, in a wheelchair.

Actor Ruth Madeley plays wheelchair-using Shirley Anne Bingham in the first of three Doctor Who anniversary specials, with the first one kicking off on
Saturday 25 November. Joining her is super-fan Tom Harries, known as Tharries on his YouTube channel. The surprises are being kept tightly under wraps
so take a listen to see if you think Ruth has given away any clues to die-hard followers of the blue police box.

Shadow disability minister Vicky Foxcroft joins us to talk about her vision for improving the lives of disabled people. From education to cost of living,
mental health act reforms and more, see how her plans differ from those currently out there and overseen by Tom Pursglove, her opposite in government who we spoke to a few weeks ago.

Plus, with the new series of I'm a Celebrity Get Me Out of Here having just hit our screens, which reality show would Nikki be able to do? Our two presenters kick this about with some surprising revelations.

Presented by Nikki Fox and Emma Tracey. Recorded and mixed by DJ Dave O'Neill. Produced by Beth Rose, Alex Collins, Betty Douglas and Emma Tracey. The editor is Damon Rose, the senior editor Sam Bonham.

The podcast drops late every Monday evening, subscribe on ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ Sounds or wherever you get your podcasts. Also, say "Alexa, ask the ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ for Access All" and you'll hear our very latest episode. We are @bbcaccessall on the X platform - follow us like a baby bear cub follows its mom.

Doctor Who is 60 this week, and the first of three anniversary episodes go out on ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ One and iPlayer on Saturday 25 November.

Release date:

Available now

39 minutes

Transcript

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20th November 2023

bbc.co.uk/accessall

Access All – episode 79

Presented by Nikki Fox and Emma Tracey

Μύ

Μύ

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ You know we did that story not long ago about how some disabled people struggle to weigh themselves?

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Yes. Good story.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Very good story. Well, I actually got weighed. I went for a specialist hospital appointment and they were like, β€œHow much do you weigh?” I was like, β€œAnyone’s guess, love”. And they said, β€œWell, we’ll get you weighed”. And I’m like, β€œWell, I can’t because I can’t stand up on scales”. And it was like, β€œNikki, we’ve got accessible scales here”. And I was like, β€œWell, first time, love, I’ll tell you”. So, yeah, I got off my scooter, sat on the accessible scales; I now know how much I weigh.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ For the first time in…?

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ For the first time in absolutely donkey’s years.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Like ten years?

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Probably longer. It could be longer, Ems.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Wow.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ So, much so that I nearly fell off the scales when they told me [laughter]. I mean, you know, it’s just numbers and all of that; let’s not get hung up. It’s good to have a bit of junk in the trunk and all of that [laughs]. But yeah…

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ It’s good to be armed with the information.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ It’s good for health reasons. I was about a stone heavier than I thought I was. I certainly don’t feel bad. I love food too much.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Love food.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ And I will never, ever stop eating lots of lovely food. I’ll just have to be a bit fitter.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ It’s just that everybody else has the information so why shouldn’t you?

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Yeah, and we need to. We need to know where we’re at, eh? If we want to keep in tip-tip condition.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Tip-top.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Or the best we can, within reason, then we need to know. Yay for sit-down scales.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ What is your favourite food?

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Do you know what, it’s going to sound really, really bourgeois, avocado.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Really?

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ And it’s not good for the environment as well, so I’m trying to limit, because not good getting flown over from…

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ I don’t know if I’ve ever heard someone say avocado is their favourite food.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ I can’t tell you how much I love avocados. I mash them, I squeeze some lemon, have it on some toast. This is just the bourgeois-ist lunch I can imagine. And then maybe a poached egg on top of that.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ I mean, that does sound delicious.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Oh, it’s so delicious.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ But I think if I was told to have my last meal I think it’d probably be chips.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ [Laughs].

MUSIC-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Theme music.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Welcome to Access All. We are the ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ’s disability and mental health podcast. Thank you so much for listening. I’m Nikki Fox in London.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ and I’m Emma Tracey and I’m in Edinburgh. And it doesn’t come across too clearly on a podcast, this being audio, but we are both disabled people.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Are you joking? It’s all we talk about [laughs].

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Well.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Coming up this week, that Tardis better have step-free access because Doctor Who returns this weekend and the magnificent actor, Ruth Madeley, well she’s in it. How exciting.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ She is. I want to ask Ruth whether her wheelchair is bigger on the inside than the outside.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Mm. And later on we are going to be chatting to the shadow disability minister that is Labour’s Vikki Foxcroft.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Follow us on X. You can read our articles on the ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ News website. And we do a transcript every week; the best way to find that is through your favourite search engine. We are not just a podcast!

ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Just a little insight into how we have to sometimes do things here: this next interview was actually recorded before the rest of the show today, and Nikki was stuck in traffic for the start of it, but she does come in near the end.

ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ British TV institution, Doctor Who, is 60 years old this year, and there are three anniversary episodes to celebrate. Starring alongside David Tennant and Catherine Tate in the episode or episodes is fabulous, brilliant, wonderful disabled actor Ruth Madeley. And she is hear for a chat. Hi Ruth. How are you?

RUTH-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ I’m so happy to be here. Thank you so much for having me.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ We wanted to ask you, Ruth, lots of different questions about the episodes, about your character, about your set.

RUTH-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ [laughs]

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ But we are being told that it absolutely has to stay a complete surprise, and we totally understand that. So, we’re going to ask what we can and get out of you what we can.

RUTH-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ And I will answer what I can, I promise.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Okay. So, Ruth, episode or episodes, do we know? Can you say how many?

RUTH-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Who knows? Who knows? The Whoniverse knows!

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ The Whoniverse knows, yeah [laughs]. Well, I’m actually no Whovian, I’ll be honest; I’m not an expert on Doctor Who. But I know a guy who is, and he is on the line with me to help me feel a bit less clueless and to maybe ask some sensible questions. It’s Tom Harries, disabled Doctor Who YouTuber. This is his job: he makes videos about Doctor Who, and often talks about disability in them. We call you Tharries, is that right?

TOM-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Yes, that’s right, yeah.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Well, I’m going to put your research to the test. For people who don’t actually know and who have either been under a rock or in a country where it isn’t on, what is Doctor Who? It’s a kind of a sci-fi thing with Time Lords, kind of family friendly; that’s sort of where I am with it.

TOM-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Yeah, pretty much. It’s like a sort of family I guess sci-fi adventure series that stars the Doctor, who’s the lead character, who’s a Time Lord, travels through time, fights monsters, meets people and saves the day. That’s the general gist of Doctor Who.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ And with that in mind where do you come in, Ruth? What’s your role?

RUTH-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ So, I play a character called Shirley Ann Bingham, and she’s amazing. She is very, very forward. She’s a badass. She’s Northern. She is fearless. And I love that for her. I can’t tell you what her specific role is and where she fits in.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Okay.

RUTH-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ But I am very, very confident that people are going to really, really enjoy her presence in the Whoniverse.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ And what does she look like? You I presume, but…

RUTH-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ She’s a manual wheelchair user. She’s light skinned with dark blonde hair with a thick fringe. And she has awesome, like she power dresses, so she’s got these fabulous blazers and jumpsuits. She’s always just very well put together.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ And Ruth, what about representation of disabled people, are we in a new era? Are we suddenly we’ve got all these new disabled people, two new disabled people in Doctor Who – well, you’re not new as a disabled actor but new to Doctor Who – do you think we’re getting better?

RUTH-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Absolutely yeah. I think it’s long overdue. I mean, it’s about bloody time, isn’t it, [laughs] let’s face it. I do think it’s a new era of inclusion, and it just enhances everything about the show I think. I mean, if you’ve got a character running around with two hearts [laughs] I think it’s not a massive stretch to put a few disabled people in there.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Yeah.

RUTH-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ And that’s one of the wonderful things about Russell T Davies is he is such an ally and such a powerhouse for inclusion, that I think he was always going to do that and he was always going to do that right when he came back.

TOM-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ I remember you working with him in Years and Years as well. I was curious like whether it – obviously I loved Years and Years and I loved Rosie in Years and Years as well…

RUTH-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Oh, thank you.

TOM-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ …and in that show Rosie is very independent and very well written, and her disability is very much core to her character. And there’s a lot of interesting conversations that take place within that show surrounding that.

RUTH-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Yes.

TOM-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ So, I was wondering if Russell was part of the draw for you to be in Doctor Who? Did he entice you more because it was Russell and you’d worked with him before and you knew how great he was?

RUTH-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ 100%. If he’d asked me to come and make the tea for everyone on set I’d have been like yeah, just tell me what time.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ So, Years and Years, a dystopian drama about the near future, am I right?

RUTH-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Yes.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ But honestly, the character of Rosie I think we all said, ah, we just breathed a sigh of relief, I think, there’s a rounded person doing all sorts of different stuff and is disabled also.

RUTH-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Also, yeah. And that’s one of the great things about that character is we said it wouldn’t have made an ounce of difference to the story if she’d been blind, deaf, had limb difference, facial difference, it wouldn’t have changed the story of the actual scripts.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ So, does Russell make sure his sets are accessible, like all of Years and Years?

RUTH-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Oh yeah.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ All of Doctor Who, every bit of it?

RUTH-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Every bit of it.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Because really want we want to ask about is the Tardis, what do you think of the new Tardis? Is it cool?Μύ

RUTH-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Oh, you’re going to love it, you’re going to love it. It’s amazing. I was very excited when I saw it, so.

TOM-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Excellent. I have to say when I was younger with the Police Box end of it, I always imagined as a kid, because you know with the box itself there’s kind of a lip going up to the doors?

RUTH-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Yeah.

TOM-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ If that makes sense. I always thought, would the chair be able to get over it? Would I be able to flip it back far enough to get into the box? So, to see that that might not be as much of an issue would be great [laughs].

RUTH-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ I think you and other viewers will be very happy, that is all I will say.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ [Laughs].

TOM-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Fair enough, fair enough.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Would it be okay if we tiptoed away from Doctor Who – I know everyone’s very excited, I know Tom Harries you’re besides yourself – but would it be okay if we just moved on to other bits of Ruth’s amazing life and career? Because I saw an Instagram post with a picture of a hand with ring at the weekend.

RUTH-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Aha.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ And a date. Did you or did you not, Ruth Madeley, get engaged recently?

RUTH-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ I did engaged, yeah.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Yay! Congratulations.

RUTH-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Very, very thrilled.

TOM-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Congratulations.

RUTH-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Thank you very much, yes, yes. It was very, very…it’s been a very fun past month [laughs].

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Yeah, you’ve had a lot going on. And you’ve been with – is his name Joe?

RUTH-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Joe, yeah.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ You’ve been with him for a long time so it’s very exciting, really pleased to see that. He’s been in lots of your documentaries and things, hasn’t he, he’s popped up?

RUTH-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Much to his despair. He thinks what I do for a living is hysterical. It’s his idea of hell.

TOM-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ [Laughs].

RUTH-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ But yeah, we’ve been together for ten years and we’ve known each other pretty much all our lives.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Ah.

RUTH-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ So, it’s about time I had this ring on my finger [laughter].

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Is he in the other room by any chance?

RUTH-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ No, he’s not.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Have you chosen your dress yet?

RUTH-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ No, not yet. I’m literally three weeks engaged, so I’m trying to pace myself.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ [Laughs].

RUTH-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ But it’s going to be beautiful, I’m telling you!

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Ah, of course it is. Because you’ve done a lot of fashion recently: you’ve been in Vogue; you’ve been on the London Fashion Week catwalk. Is this is a new joy for you?

RUTH-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ I mean, funnily enough I’ve always been into fashion, and my grandma was a dressmaker, and when I was very young my plan was always to be a fashion designer. So, fashion has always been a massive part of my world. I love putting together an outfit, I love getting dressed up for events, and I love being dressed by designers. But this year to be able to do London Fashion Week was a very new thing and I loved it. I’m a sponge, I love doing different things.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Yeah.

RUTH-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ I like finding interest in different things, and then I like moving on to something else. I just feel very privileged to be able to do it all.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ And that was with Victoria Jenkins’ label, and she’s been on our podcast a couple of times, and she makes adaptive and beautiful clothes that disabled people can get into. Hooray!

RUTH-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ She’s amazing.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Hey guys!

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Oh my goodness, someone has just shown up at the last minute.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Hi.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Nikki Fox is now also in the studio, who got stuck in traffic.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ I did. Oh Ruth, how are you darling?

RUTH-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ I’m good. How are you?

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Well, I’m delighted to be here, even if it is just for the last five minutes. For you Ruth, I actually didn’t put any make-up on today. I left an hour earlier. I was like I’m going to get to the Madeley. And as it turned out I didn’t [laughs], I didn’t make it.

RUTH-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Well, you did. You’re here.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Ruth, I was going to ask you a question, but I think you might have gone past the old Doctor Who stuff. But I wondered, Russell T Davies, I saw him at an award ceremony and he gave the most amazing speech, I nearly stood up – and I can’t stand up – like, it was just so good.

RUTH-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ That’s how good he is. That is how good he is.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ He is amazing, isn’t he? And I know you guys work really closely together, and I was just wondering is he kind of like an ally or is he just the spotter of really good, well ridiculously good disabled talent I wonder? Or is it both?

RUTH-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ I mean I feel very privileged to have worked with him in a professional capacity and collaborated with him to create a really authentic disabled character in Years and Years. But then I have been lucky enough from that experience to away from work to be able to call him my mate. He is a true ally. He didn’t have the knowledge of disability and inclusion and all of that stuff for any disability, but when he met myself he was very keen to learn more.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ But it is just lovely, isn’t it, when you meet someone like that, especially in your professional life?

RUTH-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Absolutely.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ That just wants to get it, wants to understand and is interested.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Not enough of them.

RUTH-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ So interested. And you feel so safe when you’re working with him.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Yeah, I love that. Oh, what else did you girls talk about while I was away?

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Oh, so many things. But we have superfan, Tom Harries, here.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Oh, hey Tom.

TOM-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Hi, nice to meet you.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Lovely to meet you darling.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ We thought it would be nice to give Tom the last question. So, Tom, is there a question that you, a burning question that you wanted to ask Ruth or about Doctor Who? And she might not answer it at all.

RUTH-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Try your luck!

TOM-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Okay. I’m going to try and make it my best that you can answer. One thing I wanted to ask is there’s kind of a longstanding tradition in fiction of kind of this stereotype of the disabled villain. And I wanted to ask you how does it feel to be the trailblazer in sort of inverting that stereotype in a sense, being a protagonist in one of the biggest shows of the year, one of the biggest science fiction properties ever? Does that mean a lot to you?

RUTH-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ It’s huge.

TOM-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Because I know seeing a protagonist up there with David Tennant it’s so wonderful to see.

RUTH-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Ah, well you’re going to make me cry for a start.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Ah!

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Ah!

TOM-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Sorry.

RUTH-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ You know what, I mean I grew up in a world of when a disabled character was on screen they were usually evil. Their disability was a mark of their badness. As far as I remember I don’t think I ever saw a disabled actor playing a disabled character. So, this whole experience for me has been a lot. For me I do feel that if I’m in a short film, if I’m in one scene of a whole series I always feel so privileged. But to be able to have an important character within such a legacy of a show is hopefully what people have been waiting for for a long time. And I just hope, I sincerely hope I have done you all proud. But at the same time I do think you’re going to love it because Russell is a genius at what he does.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Thank you so much for coming on Ruth.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Thank you.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ I’m gutted I only got the last five minutes.

RUTH-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Don’t be silly. I’m so happy to see you all, and thank you for being so lovely.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Ah!

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Ah, thank you. And thank you Tom as well.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Thanks Tom.

TOM-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ No problem. No worries at all.

RUTH-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Lovely to meet you Tom.

TOM-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Lovely to meet you too.

RUTH-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ I can’t wait to hear what you think about it, I really can’t.

TOM-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ I’m looking forward to it. I’m besides myself excited [laughs]. I was just at a convention the other week, so I’m hoping maybe you might start seeing people doing cosplays of you.

RUTH-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ To be fair if that happened I genuinely think I would – I’m such an emotional person, I’m a nightmare; my other half’s always shouting at me for crying at everything – I think I would break down in tears. I think you’d have to pick me up off the floor. That would be a huge thing.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Did you say cosplays?

TOM-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Yes, cosplays. That’s when people go to conventions and things they dress up as the characters from various different shows and films and stuff like that. So, you know, we might get a few Shirley Ann Bingham’s in there.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Yay! Listen, Doctor Who, the first anniversary special is on Saturday night on ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ One.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Sounds amazing.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Afterwards on iPlayer. And you can see Tom Harries on YouTube talking about it, probably for quite a long time, at Tharries, T-H-A-R-R-I-E-S.

TOM-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Ah, thank you guys.

RUTH-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Thank you guys. See you next time.

JINGLE-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Access All.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ I’m a Celebrity is back, Nikki.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ I know.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ And it made me wonder, have you ever been approached to go into the jungle?

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ [Laughs] there’s not any of them I could do, Ems. Even MasterChef would be a challenge. When you’re disabled from the top of your head to the tips of your toes, I don’t know whether I’d be any good, would I? And I certainly couldn’t do I’m a Celeb. I mean, I couldn’t do I’m a Celeb for the physicality because I watched it last night, they were jumping out of planes, they were sticking their heads in barrels, they were trying to get stars off these things with snakes.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ You have to be the right kind of disabled for these shows, is that what you’re saying?

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ You kind of do, yeah. A bit more kind of, let’s just say a bit of a minor disabled, eh?

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Could I do it? I think I’d find some of the challenges easier than sighted people.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Oh, you’d be fine because you wouldn’t see the snakes and the spiders and stuff, would you?

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ No. I mean, I’d feel them and I’d have the same sort of gut reaction. But I can go on the highest rollercoasters because I can’t see down.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Really?

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ I mean, I’m sure there are blind people who hate rollercoasters because everyone’s different. But yeah, I probably could do a lot.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ What’s the most adventurous thing you’ve ever done? The scariest thing you have ever done, Emma Tracey?

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ I did a skydive once.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Did you?

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Yeah.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ You jumped out of a plane?

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ I did, in California.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Tandem?

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ [Laughs] yes, tandem! And the thing about tandem is if you want to or not you’re going, because they literally…

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Yeah, you’ve got no choice.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ …you sit on the edge and they like bop you out, they just like push off, and off you go.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ [Laughs] could you imagine if you had done it on your own, Geronimo!

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Where am I supposed to land? Not there! not there! [Laughter] not there!

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ You would literally need someone to boot you out, wouldn’t you? You’d be like, where’s the hatch? I presume you’d feel it when you get there.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Oh, someone leads you towards the hatch before it opens. You’re kind of ready to jump out, but…

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ The ground might be a bit of a surprise.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Well, no because you start off in a skydive…

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ No, but if you did it on your own, Em.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Oh, well no because you start off and you go really fast, before your parachute opens you’re just falling from the aeroplane, and the air’s coming at you so quick you have to kind of close your mouth, close your eyes. It’s unbelievable. It just feels like you’re falling out of an airplane, as you are. And then your parachute opens, and then it’s quite sort of la, la, la, la.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ This is a very average description here, Ems. I was expecting more, I’ll be honest. You jump, you feel air and then your parachute opens [laughs].

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ You feel like you’re falling out of an aeroplane. Your stomach’s in your mouth.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ There you go, get a bit audio descriptive, love. Come on!

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ I mean, also you’re attached to someone else. And you're falling like a stone. Falling like a stone! And then they’re like, β€œRight we’re going to open the parachute now”. And you’re like does it open, will it open, or just if it doesn’t I’m dead.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Do you feel your cheeks going all [sucks in breath]?

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Yeah, sucked in.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Oh sucked in, okay.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ I didn’t love that bit actually. Can you tell? I didn’t love the falling out of the aeroplane.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ No.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ But I didn’t mind when the parachute opened, because you’re kind of floaty, floaty. You can hear people on the ground before you hit it.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ You’re a daredevil, Emma Tracey.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ So, it’s not too bad. Well, yeah, I wouldn’t do it again.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ [Laughs] done once, never again.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ I also climbed Machu Picchu, I wouldn’t do that again either.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Oh here we go, it’s all coming out now, isn’t it?

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ I know. You thought I was not that disabled person, didn’t you?

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ No, I didn’t think you’re not that disabled person, Emma, no. You did tell me once you did some kind of walking challenge and you got a coach halfway to take the weight off your feet.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ I literally got a coach for a mile or two, anyway.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ It was still a mile, Emma Tracey.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Well, listen, could you do a parachute jump, skydive tandem thing?

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ No. I did always want to do it when I was younger, and then someone told me that because I’d dislocated my knee I wouldn’t be able to do it because it would just pop out. And then has I’ve got older I’ve developed a little bit of a fear of heights. I don’t know, when I used to walk I felt a lot higher and I was braver, and now I’ve sat down I’m lower and I’m not brave anymore.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ So, there’s too far to go basically?

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Yeah. I just no. Those things have gone, Ems.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ As close to the ground as possible. Is it about taking falls? If you fall you’re quite close to the ground.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ I just don’t want to do it, Ems. I’m just not adventurous. You know me.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ But neither am I really.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ I spend weekends atΜύ home watching movies, pottering in the garden with Dave. I’m happy that way. I enjoy it. I’ve done the adventure but I’ve not been… I mean, when I was younger-younger at school I did white water rafting and abseiling. It’s all coming out now; I’d forgotten about that. Yeah, I did abseil and I could do that and I did enjoy that very much. White water rafting they wouldn’t let me sit on the side of the inflatable side, so I had to go in the middle on this rock hard plate, and I do remember because we went over a big old wave and I went flying forward and got my head wedged under a teacher’s bum. And the water was rising and I couldn’t get out, and I thought that’s how I’m going to die. I thought I was going to die under my teacher’s bum-bum. So, I guess that was the last adventurous thing that I’ve ever done.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ What would be the most adventurous thing you would do?

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ I’ll be honest, not much, Ems. I mean, I’d go for a long walk or something.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ [Laughs].

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ You know, there’s not really much, is there? But I must admit if I were asked to go on I’m a Celebrity it would be hard for me to say no because it must be a lot of fun.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ And you get a lot of money, money.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Dosh, yeah.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ [Singing] money, money, money.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Money! The dosh. And obviously it’s good for the old profile, wouldn’t it? All of those things you’d think that would be all right.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ You’d have to bring a PA with you though.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Well, I’d like that. Can you imagine me and Libby?

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Unless one of the celebrities was going to be your PA as well.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Oh yeah, that would be good as well. But could you imagine me and Lib in there?

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Maybe Nigel Farage could be your PA.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Yeah [laughs].

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ I just don’t know ay of the other names. Oh, there is Sam Johnson, isn’t there?

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ No, Thomson, Sam Thompson [laughter]. Sam Thompson is in there, Emma Tracey. And Sam is from Made in Chelsea I think. I know he’s got ADHD. And he’s just a lovely guy. It was the opening show last night and he was just hugging everyone. I don’t think Fred Sirieix liked the many hugs that Sam was giving him. But Sam’s very much like me, he’s very needy. In one of the interviews he went, β€œI just want him to love me” so my money’s on him to win.

JINGLE-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Access All with Nikki Fox.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Now, a week is a long time in politics. That’s what they say, don’t they? And our next desk, Vicky, would probably agree, given everything that’s been happening in parliament recently. Now, Vicky Foxcroft is a Labour MP for Lewisham Deptford and the shadow minister for disabled people opposite Tom Pursglove, who we’ve had on the podcast quite recently actually. And with a General Election set to take place at least by January 2025 all the political talk has started to hot up, so we thought that it’s the perfect time to find out what Labour is thinking when it comes to disability. So, we have Vicky in the studio with us now. Hello Vicky.

VICKY-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Hiya. Thanks for having us today.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Oh, it’s lovely to have you on. Now, Vicky, I’m going to start with a biggie: who is Vicky Foxcroft? Tell us.

VICKY-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Well, that’s quite complicated actually. It depends what parts to me you want to know. So, I’m obviously a politician. I grew up in the northwest. I spent most of my life when I was younger moving about a lot, living in temporary accommodation. I failed all of my GCSEs, but then I went to college, and that was kind of a gamechanger for me. And I didn’t study politics; my politics comes from kind of my heart. I went to university and I did drama and business studies. That was 1996. Somebody knocked on my door and asked me to vote for the Labour party, and that’s how I got more and more involved in politics.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ I don’t think you’ll mind me saying this, because you’ve been very open about it, but you also have arthritis, don’t you?

VICKY-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Yeah, rheumatoid arthritis.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Rheumatoid arthritis, yeah.

VICKY-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ I was first diagnosed with it at the start of 2019, and there’s no way of treating it, you can just manage it. But that was quite a scary moment for it.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ You have to manage your own health, don’t you, and you have to take time off for appointments. Work is such a big thing for a lot of disabled people; those sorts of things must very much help in your brief?

VICKY-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Yeah, definitely. I obviously take medication. But actually when I started in the brief was at the start of COVID and of lockdown, and because of the medication that I take I actually had to shield myself. So, before that point I’d not particular felt disabled. But after that point when you’re not allowed to go out, you’re not allowed to have a walk like everybody else is, then I was like oh, I now understand.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Just give us a quick rundown of what your job entails?

VICKY-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ I have to hold the government to account. So, I challenge Tom Pursglove quite a lot in parliament. The other stuff that we’ve got to do is formulate our policies for the next General Election.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ There’s lots of big ones, aren’t there: employment benefits, social care, I mean there’s so much. Maybe let’s start with work?

VICKY-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ I’ve never spoken to a disabled person who doesn’t want to work. But what disabled people do tell me is it’s the barriers that are in society that stop them being able to work. We have to tackle health and work together, making sure that people do have their care packages that they need, that they have access to healthcare in a timely fashion. But kind of along with that we’ve got an Access to Work system that in theory, if you know about it and you get through the system, is cracking. But it’s not actually accessible to everybody. And so we need to make sure that we reform Access to Work, that we make sure that it’s accessible, that we make sure that it’s simplified, and actually that people get their awards in a timely fashion.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ So, what would you do to Access to Work?

VICKY-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ One of the things straightaway is to make sure that people got indicative awards early on so that they weren’t waiting for ages. But genuinely working with disabled people to be able to come up with what needs to happen in terms of the system. But it doesn’t just touch on Access to Work, because we also have a problem of reasonable adjustments in the workplace and where employers might decide they’re not going to make those reasonable adjustments. So, we need to make sure that we go and enforce that further.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ But how?

VICKY-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ This is the reason why I was saying that parts of this need to be working together with disabled people about what we know, we’ll make sure that that happens. What are the barriers and where do we need to legislate on certain areas? So, that’s our approach. But we’ve said that we’ll make sure that we have mandatory disability pay gap reporting and mandatory disability employment reporting. Which is really important because until you know kind of what you’ve got and you open up the transparency of all the different companies it’s hard to then kind of keep focusing on the changes.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Am I right in assuming you might be for targets maybe being transparent that companies need to hire x amount of disabled people?

VICKY-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ So, I’m conflicted on this. What I don’t want to see is a system where companies just look to tick a box and not actually do things that really change to make sure we employ more disabled people. But if they don’t do stuff then we do need to do more. If we look at the Disability Confidence Scheme you can achieve level one by doing nothing. So, I’m level two; I haven’t particularly changed very much to get to that stage. When you get level one by just attending an event and then do nothing about it how’s that fit for work? So, we’ve also said we need to reform the Disability Confidence Scheme. And my thoughts are we almost need to start at level three.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ So, you’re actually saying you could do better yourself with employing disabled people if you say you’re at level two and we were to start at level three?

VICKY-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Well, no it’s the system and going through it actually. But they need somebody to look at the paperwork.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ But you would just reform the whole system?

VICKY-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Yeah, I think we need to. You can’t have a system that actually doesn’t focus on employing more disabled people and supporting people to be able to do that.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Tom Pursglove did mention that they were going to be reviewing Disability Confidence. We’ve got the Autumn Statement that’s going to be delivered by Jeremy Hunt later on this week. Now, your parliamentary record shows that you’ve always voted against reducing spending when it comes to welfare benefits. But you’ve not been around for votes relating to raising benefits. So, where you do you stand on that, Vicky?

VICKY-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Well, that’s a really tough one, and one that could potentially get me in lots of trouble if I talked about spending money. We can’t spend money without growing the economy first. We know that we need to review and reform the benefits system. Disabled people view the DWP as something to be afraid of rather than actually somewhere that will help them and support them into work, but also will ensure they’ve got the support when they need it. And anybody that’s gone through the assessment process will know what a harrowing assessment process it is.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ the government are trying to reduce, well they have reduced the amount of paperwork, haven’t they, to be fair?

VICKY-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Yeah. Well, we’ve got to make sure that people are supported into work if they want to work. But it can’t be all with the stick; it has to be with the carrot and the proper support put in place. But also that you get the opportunities to get the right job as well, and not just pushed into any job because it suits them in terms of meeting targets. But also when people aren’t able to be working we also need to make sure that they’re supported.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Can we talk about education? Labour, one of your five missions is to break down barriers to opportunities and ensure there isn’t a class ceiling. So, they’re talking about richer versus poorer families. But what does all of that mean for children with special educational needs and disabilities?

VICKY-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ We need to make sure that EHCP is fixed so that when people have health needs that they need to be met in school that actually they get that, and that people aren’t having to go through tribunals. And to be honest, this does relate to class as well because quite often it’s the middle class parents that can fight for it.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ That’s an Education Health and Care Plan is it you’re talking about, the EHCP?

VICKY-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Yes.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Which is a plan that parents often need to get for their children to get them the right provision?

VICKY-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Precisely. And we need to make sure that we reform that and that people get those plans in place in a much quicker fashion. We also need to have mainstream education that’s actually fully inclusive, making sure that the support is there, that the buildings are fit for purpose.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ So, not special schools then? Would you be more for mainstream?

VICKY-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ I think you have to have parental choice. But I think the one thing that is uniting in terms of this is the reason why a lot of people don’t want to send their children to mainstream education is because they don’t think it’s fit for their children. And actually we need to ensure that we have a mainstream education that is fit for their children. It will take years of time and investment and training.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ The money’s just not there though, is it?

VICKY-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ But that’s the reason why we’ve got to grow the economy and get the money there.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ A lot of families will always say that my child needs specialist provision, and that might be because their disability is more complex. Would you accept that there will always be a need for a specialist provision?

VICKY-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ I think there would be until mainstream was that inclusive. It will take years to go and do this, but part of it is the ethos around making sure that we want to get there.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ So many attempts have been made though to try and fix specialist education, but also the EHCP. What would you do differently?

VICKY-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ We’ve got a big review taking place at the moment about how you ensure that people do get those awards quickly. Because getting them in a timely fashion is a really big gamechanger in terms of future prospects and in terms of making sure that you can get a decent education.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ And we know that in order to go to school and to hold down a job for all of these things for a lot of people it starts with the right support and care at home. Because if you can’t get out of bed you can’t got to work. What are Labour’s plans to fix this system? It’s huge and, again, hugely expensive.

VICKY-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Yeah, I’m sure you’ve seen that Wes Streeting commissioned a review in term of this. But as you said, it’s quite expensive and we can’t commit to unfunded spending stuff. But I think it does point to a direction of travel where we would want to get to. We also have very much a home-first approach, so making sure that people can stay in their homes, that they’re not going into, I mean let’s be honest, care homes aren’t really fit for purpose. But also towards delivering a national care service so that we would have national standards across the country that people could expect.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Because if you cannot – and disabled people will say this, every disabled person I’ve met would have said this to me – if you cannot live independently and be the master of your own destiny you ain’t going to get anywhere in life, and there’s no point in having an aspiration or a dream because it’s just not going to happen for so many.

VICKY-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Yeah, and that’s the reason why we are really committed to the home first approach.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ And cost of living huge, huge issue.

VICKY-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Yeah.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ I mean, what do you plan to do to improve that situation? We know that more disabled people live in poverty. We know it’s so difficult now for so many, for so many reasons as well.

VICKY-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Yeah absolutely. And that’s the reason why we have the stuff that we’ve said in terms of supporting people into work, growing the economy, making sure that we deal with all of the economic problems that we will inherit at that stage. But also making sure that people can move on in work as well and be able to get better jobs throughout their career. And also making sure that work actually does pay properly.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Vicky just quickly, before we finish, can I ask are Labour going to be picking up that Mental Health Act that was dropped and wasn’t mentioned in the King’s Speech? 2018 the first official talk was about it, but the Act’s been there since 1983, so people have been looking for reforms for a long time. So, can you confirm then that Labour will be picking up these reforms and moving forwards with them?

VICKY-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Yes, absolutely.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Vicky Foxcroft, it’s been lovely to meet you?

VICKY-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Thanks for inviting us.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Woah, we’ve had a cracking couple of interviews today, haven’t we, Ems? Well, you can check out more of our interviews, because we’ve got some more goodies, over 79 episodes. My goodness, 79 episodes. From shampoo commercial girl, Lucy Edwards – I love Lucy – to singer/songwriter Victoria Canal – that was probably one of my favourite interviews actually we’ve done so far – we’ve got TV presenter, Gail Porter, comedian Chris McCausland, and so much more.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Next week we’re heading to space with our favourite disabled astronaut, John McFall. And within the next few weeks we’re going to have Simon Minty off that there Gogglebox as well.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ I love watching Simon on Gogglebox. We both know him and we both adore him.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Yeah.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ He’s very much a friend of the pod. He hosted the pod, didn’t he, before it was Access All?

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ He did for absolutely ages, and he was fantastic. And I can’t wait to get a chat with him.

NIKKI-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Yeah, he’s so famous now, I love it. And don’t forget our podcasts are now out every Monday night, which is why Emma and I will never sleep again on a Sunday. We’re kicking off the week instead. So, until next time people, goodbye.

EMMA-ΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύΜύ Goodbye.

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