麻豆约拍

SAMANTHA BAINES:听Good afternoon. It's me, Samantha Baines on 麻豆约拍 Radio London, standing in for the wonderful Gaby Roslin. And in true Gaby Roslin style, we have a jam-packed entertainment show for you, coming up in the next three hours. We're going to be talking to Rose Ayling-Ellis about her brand-new documentary that's coming out tomorrow on 麻豆约拍 One. We've also got a double Michelin star chef coming in. Tommy Banks is going to be giving us top barbecue tips, which I'm excited about because I know nothing. We're also going to be doing some tapping with Poppy Delbridge, and I think we'll have a relaxing Sunday after that. If you don't know what tapping is, stay tuned. We're going to learn all about it. We've got actresses and, of course, music and more. So for now, let's get our boogie on and have a bit of Maroon 5, I think. Oh, I love a bit of Maroon 5, don't you? That was Sugar. That got me grooving this morning. Thank you for joining me. I like to imagine you grooving wherever you are this morning and this afternoon, because it is now afternoon. It's Samantha Baines on 麻豆约拍 Radio London. I've got a jam-packed show for you and today I'm asking you for your positive empowerment stories. We are talking to Rose Ayling-Ellis towards the end of the show, and I don't know if you know this about me, but I am also part of the deaf community. I have a hearing aid myself. I lip read. All of my guests today will either be in the studio or they'll be on video calls, so I'm able to lip read them, which is brilliant. I love an accessible show and I'm glad to bring that to you, and I want to hear your positive empowerment stories. It is, of course, Pride Month as well. So are you inspired by someone that you've seen online, met in real life? Has Rose inspired you by watching her on Strictly, her new documentary coming up, or is someone in your life, like me, a hearing aid wearer, and you've seen this new deaf representation that's been happening on the news and in media have an impact on their life. I would love to hear from you. You can call 0800 731 2000. You can text 81333. Don't forget to start your message with the word "London," so I get it. And you can also tweet me @samanthabaines and @麻豆约拍RadioLondon. I would love to hear your positive empowerment stories, and I have my first stunning guest for you. We've got Kelly Sweeney. She is currently starring in Halls at the Turbine Theatre. Hello, Kelly.听

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KELLY SWEENEY:听Hello. How are you?听听

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SAMANTHA BAINES:听Good.听

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KELLY SWEENEY:听Good.听听

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SAMANTHA BAINES:听I love a Liverpudlian voice in the afternoon.听

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KELLY SWEENEY:听Yes.听听

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SAMANTHA BAINES:听Welcome. Have you travelled all the way from Liverpool?听听

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KELLY SWEENEY:听No, actually, I live here now. I live in Crystal Palace and I've been here about two years, since after the pandemic. But, yeah, I love it down here. But I do miss home.听听

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SAMANTHA BAINES:听Because you're a musical theatre performer, so we need you in the West End, don't we?听

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KELLY SWEENEY:听Yeah!听听

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SAMANTHA BAINES:听And now. So you're in halls at the Turbine Theatre? This is a new musical. I'm excited.听听

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KELLY SWEENEY:听Yes. Brand-new, yeah, it's incredible. It's... It's its first up-on-its-feet type of run. We've done two workshops beforehand, and this is the first time it's going to have a set and costumes and everyone just belting and singing for their heart's content.听听

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SAMANTHA BAINES:听And what's it like as an actor to do kind of rehearsed readings and then finally be able to get up on its feet and put a costume on?听听

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KELLY SWEENEY:听Yeah, it's such a difference, because when we did the workshops, obviously we wanted to give as much of a performance as possible, but there was room for a mistake, for someone to miss their page or go back a second. And our director Andy was reading all the stage directions so the audience could understand. And this time it's, it's a bit more nerve-racking because it's like, right, I've got to make decisions. I've got to make sure I'm, you know, here for this part and I'm saying that line, I've got to remember those lines and those harmonies, but it's a lot of fun. It's nice to have it up on its feet for the first time.听听

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SAMANTHA BAINES:听Well, we have a little bit of one of your songs.听听

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KELLY SWEENEY:听Oh, yeah.听听

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SAMANTHA BAINES:听A Little Hard Work by Kelly Sweeney, who is in the studio from the new musical Halls at the Turbine Theatre. What's it like listening to you sing on the radio?听听

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KELLY SWEENEY:听Very strange. Yeah, it's very strange, but it's... It's nice. It's nice to hear the Scouse accent singing a little song there.听

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SAMANTHA BAINES:听I noticed that, because you can really hear your accent coming through and I love that.听听

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KELLY SWEENEY:听Yeah, it's nice, isn't it? It's not often that you can hear regional accents within the music. I think sometimes you'll have the accent in the speech, but not the song. So, yeah, it's quite nice to have it going through.听听

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SAMANTHA BAINES:听Well, you said it was a bit nerve-racking before and now you're getting it up on its feet. I think after I've heard that, I don't think you should be nervous at all.听听

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KELLY SWEENEY:听Oh, thank you.听听

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SAMANTHA BAINES:听Can you tell us a little bit about the storyline of the musical and your role in it?听听

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KELLY听SWEENEY:听Yeah, sure. So it's about eight people that move into uni halls for their first year at uni. They're all going to the same university, but all on different courses and they've all come from, you know, different walks of life, shall we say? And it's that kind of universal thing that most of us know when we live with people we don't know that we haven't chosen and how a year might pan out. You know, there's the really classic arguments of who's stolen my milk from the fridge and where's my essay, I left it on the table. And I play Sam, who is...听听

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SAMANTHA BAINES:听Great name.听

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KELLY SWEENEY:听Great name. She is working... She's from a working class background and she's basically, you know, saved every penny, worked till her feet are sore to get here. This is a big university and she's studying law and she's not going to waste the opportunity. So she's kind of the kid in the house that doesn't really go out. She makes sure every essay is on time and she's working two jobs while she's there, and the rest of the housemates are always saying, "You should take a break, come out, come and have a laugh." And she says, "I can't because this opportunity just didn't fall onto my lap like some of you other guys." And that song is when she sort of has a moment to say, "I'm not going to give up but this is so frustrating." And, yeah, it's a... Yeah, it's really heartfelt.听听

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SAMANTHA BAINES:听Sounds like the student every parent would want, because it definitely wasn't the student that I was at university.听听

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KELLY SWEENEY:听Yeah. Yeah, definitely. She's a saint.听听

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SAMANTHA BAINES:听Yeah. And so what's it like coming into this new character? Because I know you've been in the Six musical, the cruise before. Do you relate more to a wife of Henry听VIII听in Six or this character, Sam?听听

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KELLY SWEENEY:听Oh, I love that question. There's definitely parts to both. Because Sam, working class background and the university story for Sam is quite similar to my own in certain aspects, I do relate to it a lot. So I do get a little bit emotional sometimes singing, but playing Anne Boleyn in Six The Musical was one of my favourite things. I think she brings out the feisty side in me, which I love. And, yeah, I never knew that I would relate so much to one of Henry听VIII's听wives, but she'll live with me forever.听听

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SAMANTHA BAINES:听Maybe we all have a little bit of one of Henry听VIII's听wives in us.听听

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KELLY SWEENEY:听Absolutely. Yeah, 100%.听听

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SAMANTHA BAINES:听So, what's your favourite thing about being in Halls?听听

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KELLY SWEENEY:听Favourite thing is I have really enjoyed, especially this week, watching... I've been doing it with three different casts now. My favourite thing is watching the other actors that come in and how they portray a character that I've potentially already seen in the workshop, and and just seeing how certain lines just pop, like when someone says it. And the rehearsal period is always my favourite because it's the most creative that we can be, and... Though our director's telling us, you know, I think you need to have a base, we can also incorporate our own thoughts and feelings and who we think our characters are, and everyone just, it's the best, like, creative process, so that's my favourite bit.听听

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SAMANTHA BAINES:听And what about you in the future? What's a part that you'd love to play in a musical?听听

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KELLY SWEENEY:听Oh, wow, that is a big question. I... The goal that got me into musical theatre, well, there was two. There was Fanny Brice in Funny Girl and then also Elphaba in Wicked.听听

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SAMANTHA BAINES:听Amazing.听听

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KELLY SWEENEY:听They're definitely for the future, but if it does come to the West End, I would love to be in Jagged Little Pill, which is Alanis Morissette's musical, because she's my favourite artist of all time.听听

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SAMANTHA BAINES:听Well, I can see them all.听听

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KELLY SWEENEY:听Yeah, thank you.听听

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SAMANTHA BAINES:听I can see you in them. Well, you're brilliant, and I love the sound of this musical. Halls is at the Turbine Theatre at Battersea Power Station from the 7th to the 30th of July. You can find out more online at theturbinetheatre.com or hallsthemusical.com. Kelly, thank you very much for joining me.听听

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KELLY SWEENEY:听Thank you.听

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SAMANTHA BAINES:听We're going to have a bit of Robbie Williams now.听听

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KELLY SWEENEY:听Oh, perfect.听听

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SAMANTHA BAINES:听That's right. It's 麻豆约拍 Radio London with me, Samantha Baines. Coming up, we have Jay Mailer from a new production of A Midsummer Night's Dream. We also have Michelin star chef Tommy Banks coming up in the next hour to talk about his podcast, Seasoned. And don't forget, I am asking you for your positive empowerment stories. As I mentioned, I'm deaf, I wear a hearing aid. I'm really excited that I'm going to be speaking to Rose Ayling-Ellis later in the show, and I'm loving seeing all the deaf representation on the news and in media. Are you deaf? Do you wear a hearing aid? Are you inspired by what you're seeing? Do you want to see more of it? Do you have a family member who's got a hearing aid but is getting more excited about being part of the deaf community because of all the news stories we're seeing? It's also Pride Month. I'm a proud bisexual lady myself. Do you have a positive queer role model? Are you loving Pride this month? What have you been up to? I'd love to hear from you. You can call 0800 731 2000. You can text 81333. Start your message with the word, London. And you can also hit us up on social media, @samanthabaines, @麻豆约拍RadioLondon. Pure Shoes by All Saints. I haven't heard that for a while. I love that one. I was a big All Saints fan back in the day, but now my next guest is in the studio. Jay Mailer is currently in A Midsummer Night's Dream. It's on from Thursday 29th June to the 1st of July at Opera Holland Park. Hello, Jay.听

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JAY MAILER:听Hello, Sam. How are you?听听

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SAMANTHA BAINES:听I'm good, thank you. How are you?听听

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JAY MAILER:听All good. Thanks for having me on. Really appreciate it.听听

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SAMANTHA BAINES:听Well, now you're an actor, but you're also a comedian. You've been making me laugh already.听

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JAY MAILER:听I don't know about that, but... Talking about my mum's new bathroom. But, yes, I am...听

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SAMANTHA BAINES:听It sounds lovely.听听

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JAY MAILER:听I mean, it is lovely. Missing a mirror. Liz, if you're listening. Um, yes, I am also a comedian, yes. Very loosely, though. I used to do a lot of stand up and haven't done for a while. It's...听

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SAMANTHA BAINES:听Me too.听听

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JAY MAILER:听Been focusing on acting. Were you a stand-up as well?听听

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SAMANTHA BAINES:听Yeah, I think it stays with you, though, doesn't it?听听

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JAY MAILER:听Yeah. I think it's a transferable skill that you can bring out when appropriate and bring out when not appropriate. So, yeah.听

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SAMANTHA BAINES:听And it is appropriate for A Midsummer Night's Dream because you are playing the iconic comedy role, Bottom.听听

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JAY MAILER:听Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I'm going to show Opera Holland Park my Bottom.听听

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SAMANTHA BAINES:听And how will that be?听听

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JAY MAILER:听Well, you'll have to ask them after the show, I think. But no, I think it's... Listen, it's a really exciting production I think we've got on our hands, and we're all really, really excited. But in terms of Bottom, yeah, as you said, it's an iconic role. It's one of the fools, but unlike other fools, it's not just a laugh a minute. He actually goes on a whole journey, old Nick Bottom, because there's a lot of magic put upon him. There's a lot of entertainment, a lot of love that he's craving. So he has a nice, a nice, heartbreaking, but ultimately ending in a really lovely, arc, yeah.听听

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SAMANTHA BAINES:听We love that. And why do you think, you know, A Midsummer Night's Dream, it's one of the most popular Shakespeare plays. We constantly see it on our stages and we still love it. Why do you think that is?听

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JAY MAILER:听Well, I think love, it's universal, right? And I think finding love, craving, losing love, I think that's a very universal thing that is throughout society and throughout all our lives. But also magic. I think as an audience, we love to go and watch magic right in front of us and seeing it unfold, and that could be in a card trick or a rabbit coming out of a hat or it could be someone turning someone into a donkey. And I think we do that. All the magic in the show, I think we do in a really tasteful and really unique and interesting way. It's a show full of movement, it's also set in the backdrop of the 19th century, Grimm fairy tales kind of era of Germany. And also what makes this show unique, yes, it's set in Midsummer, as in, you know, end of June, July of 2023, which is amazing. But also it features Mendelssohn's original score of A Midsummer Night's Dream, which really kind of, I think, brings it above the rest and kind of makes it really unique and allows to kind of still reference the historic side of the history of A Midsummer Night's Dream.听听

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SAMANTHA BAINES:听I was going to say, because this is a historical production, right? So you're bringing that original score in. What's that like as an actor? Does it change the atmosphere onstage?听听

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JAY MAILER:听Well, we'll find out on Tuesday when we take the show, I think. Up until now, if you asked me what it's like working with a laptop or an iPhone, then, yeah, brilliant. We've all got Spotify. We can do that any minute. But we are working with a 30 piece orchestra and we're working with a children's choir from Theatre Peckham, 12 kids, and it's going to be... It's something I just cannot wait to get my teeth into. And as I said, you know, we've just been working with a Spotify playlist. But until that moment and when we hear it live right in front of us, it's going to be... I mean, even the Spotify playlist makes your hairs stand on end. So this is going to be a real experience not only for the performers, but hopefully for the audience as well.听听

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SAMANTHA BAINES:听And obviously other streaming platforms are available.听听

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JAY MAILER:听Are available! Yeah. Apologies.听听

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SAMANTHA BAINES:听So you haven't worked with the orchestra yet?听

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JAY MAILER:听No.听

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SAMANTHA BAINES:听Have you ever performed with a 30-piece orchestra? Because that must be intense.听听

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JAY MAILER:听I don't think I've performed with a 30-piece anything. Um, but, yeah, it's going to be, it's going to be really interesting. No, I haven't ever worked with... I think, I've worked with live music before, but never an orchestra that also, it's really important to say, that are using instruments that are unique to the time that Mendelssohn created the music. So it's going to be a very authentic production and performance of Mendelssohn's score. So, yeah, it's going to be something we're all really buzzing to, to kind of work with.听听

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SAMANTHA BAINES:听And it's at Opera Holland Park. I've never been there, but that looks pretty epic in itself. What's it like to... Have you been to visit, done rehearsals there?听听

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JAY MAILER:听So we've been rehearsing in East London and we go over to West London in... On Tuesday. So, and we, our first performance, as you mentioned, is on Thursday, Friday and then our last performance on Saturday. So it's a brief run due to the kind of the enormity of the show, with the amount of moving hats that are kind of available and being used. It's got a brief run. But no, we haven't been over to Opera Holland Park, so maybe we'll come back and tell you how that space was. But we've been working with references and the scale of it, and that in itself is quite overwhelming, so, yeah.听

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SAMANTHA BAINES:听It's funny, isn't it, because I think, I'm an actor myself and people assume that you get to perform in the space when you're rehearsing, but actually there's other shows going on. I remember when I did Magic Mike Live, we rehearsed in a studio and then had to transfer it just like you're doing onto the stage. And you can mark it out in the rehearsal room, but once you get into that space, suddenly the show becomes a show.听

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JAY MAILER:听Yeah. Were you Channing Tatum's part in that? Who were you?听听

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SAMANTHA BAINES:听Yeah, I played Channing Tatum.听听

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JAY MAILER:听Yeah, yeah, of course.听

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SAMANTHA BAINES:听No, I was the female听MC.听听

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JAY MAILER:听Oh, wow. Brilliant.听听

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SAMANTHA BAINES:听So how have you approached the character of Bottom? Because as you said, that character goes on a journey, but it is, you know, Bottom provides some light relief along with the other fools in the show.听

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JAY MAILER:听Absolutely, yeah. I think the way I've approached it is he's a human like us all, or in the script he's called an Athenian, which, a man from Athens, you know, just an everyman, an every kind of day local hero kind of bloke. Nothing too much to him. He's part of the mechanicals, which are the group of amateur actors who put on the show at the wedding before the Duke and Hippolyta. And it's been a really interesting one to look into, because you look at the traits that I have myself, I think, in order to allow me to access a character like this, and I'm prone to having a bit of a loud voice, I'm prone to maybe taking up more space than I should or speaking for maybe longer than I should. And I think ultimately it comes from lacking something in earlier childhood or something. So I look at what Bottom might be making up for in order to be the centre of attention. And initially, I think it's annoying for the other mechanicals, for his other cast mates, but I think he ultimately wins them round, because, after all, the ideas he comes up with are really good.听听

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SAMANTHA BAINES:听Well, I know you have another show that you're in that you just want to do a quick plug for before I plug this one again for you.听听

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JAY MAILER:听Of course, yeah. Thank you.听

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SAMANTHA BAINES:听What's that one?听听

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JAY MAILER:听That is a show called Bad Lads, and that's on at the New Wimbledon Theatre, and that is on from the 11th of July to the 15th of July featuring some matinees and some evening performances. It's on for the whole run of Wimbledon, the tennis tournament, so there you go. You can maybe come watch a play and then go watch Djokovic or something.听听

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SAMANTHA BAINES:听Well, you can see you in two plays because A Midsummer Night's Dream, as I said, is on from Thursday 29th of June to Saturday 1st of July at 7:30 at Opera Holland Park. You can go to operahollandpark.com for more information and tickets. Thank you so much for joining me.听

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JAY MAILER:听Thank you, Sam. Thanks so much for having me on.听听

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SAMANTHA BAINES:听Thanks. I'm asking you today for your positive empowerment stories. I'm deaf myself. I have a disabled guest coming on the show. I also have a brilliant author called Cerrie Burnell, by the way. I also have the brilliant Rose Ayling-Ellis who is also deaf herself. So I'm asking you, what does disability representation mean to you? What does deaf empowerment and deaf representation that we're seeing so much of mean to you? I've had a lovely message. "A disability should never hold you back from your dreams." This is Orson Grimer, aged nine. He's severely deaf and a hearing aid wearer, and Orson recently delivered a petition to Ten Downing Street to increase provisions for deaf children, and he was selected to meet Malala Youseffa for all his... Yousafzai, for all the advocacy work, and raised over 拢15,000 for a听UK听charity supporting deaf children and babies. So, wow, you're inspiring me, and I'd love to hear more of your... Positive empowerment stories, I'm calling them. So you can call me, 0800 731 2000. You can text 81333, start your message with the word London, or you can tweet @samanthabaines and @麻豆约拍RadioLondon. But for now, I have a Michelin star chef, Tommy Banks, got a new podcast called Seasoned, a brand-new series, second series. We're very excited to hear it. Tommy, thanks for joining us.听听

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TOMMY BANKS:听Thank you for having me. I'm currently sat in the beer garden of my pub because it's the middle of Sunday lunch service, and actually this is a nice ten minutes where I'm not sweating on the pass on this very hot day. So this is a very welcome break.听听

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SAMANTHA BAINES:听How's the Sunday lunch service going? Are you out of chicken?听听

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TOMMY BANKS:听No, no. Beef and pork, and it's, yeah, it's all going nicely. I don't know, when the sun's shining, everyone's happy, aren't they? So it's going well.听听

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SAMANTHA BAINES:听Do you find you get less complaints when the sun's shining?听听

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TOMMY BANKS:听Yeah. I mean, I complain less when the sun's shining.听

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SAMANTHA BAINES:听Me too. I agree. So you have your new series of the podcast, Seasoned, out, and I've had a listen. It's great. I love that you, you know, you go to the farm and you talk about what produce you've got as well as doing kind of top tips. What can we expect from this new series?听

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TOMMY BANKS:听Well, this series is going to be fantastic because it's just the middle of summer, or the time of abundance, as I call it, because there's literally everything. So when we were doing the first series in winter, it was like, oh, God, I've got to get ten episodes here out of all the ingredients that I've got, whereas now everything's happening and I really love it. So the first episode was about barbecues. Um, so obviously everybody's lighting barbecues and cooking on barbecues at this time of year in this weather, but we'll just follow the whole summer season through. And to an extent, we don't really write the series. The series writes itself. So farming is nuanced. Like, different things can happen depending on the weather or whatever it might be. So, so we actually... Like, I will record this Wednesday's podcast, finish recording it tomorrow or Tuesday for Wednesday. So it's quite sort of live. So we kind of just roll with what's going on on the farm.听

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SAMANTHA BAINES:听Amazing, and so you did mention barbecues there. I have to ask you some barbecue tips because it's barbecue weather. I know nothing. I've been actually looking at getting a barbecue for my garden and I hear from your podcast that fuel is important. What fuel should I be going for?听听

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TOMMY BANKS:听Yeah, fuel is really important. I think, well, you know, most people, I think, just pick up a bag from maybe, from the petrol station or something. And I think often, you know, sometimes you have barbecues and they taste like... They taste quite synthetic. They taste almost quite sort of smoked and almost burnt, and often that can be down to cheap fuel. So I think always go for a lumpwood, charcoal over the briquettes. It just burns a lot cleaner and you get a lot better flavour. If you're a real barbecue connoisseur, and then there's a Japanese type of charcoal called Binchotan, which gives the most amazing flavour, and you can actually re-use it, which is quite remarkable. So you'd light your barbecue, cook your food, and then take your coals out, extinguish them in water, and then let them dry out and use them again. So it's quite, it's a very good expensive premium charcoal, but you can use it again and again. So they would be my tips. But for just off the shelf, always go for lumpwood over the briquettes.听听

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SAMANTHA BAINES:听I love the sound of a reusable barbecue fuel. What about a gas barbecue? Because you see those ones with the big gas canisters.听听

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TOMMY BANKS:听Yeah, well, that's cheating, really, isn't it? But I understand why people use them because they're really convenient. Um, yeah. I mean, my... My brother used to have one. I used to rib him and say it's sort of cheating. But, I mean, what it does do is save you a whole load of time and mess and hassle so I can see why people have them.听听

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SAMANTHA BAINES:听And what about, so we all know about the burnt sausages.听听

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TOMMY BANKS:听Yeah.听听

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SAMANTHA BAINES:听What do you think is the best underrated barbecue food that we should be cooking on our barbecues?听听

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TOMMY BANKS:听Oh, that's a good question. I think chicken thighs are a brilliant thing. So chicken thighs, because they like to have a real good cook and they never go dry. So you leave the skin on them, marinade them, they'll take... You can really marinade them in anything and they'll take on all the flavour, and then onto the grill and you can give them a real good cook and they just absorb all the flavour, all of the smoke and they're really quite sort of a nice cheap cut as well. So chicken thighs is something I'd always have on a barbecue.听听

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SAMANTHA BAINES:听You heard it here. Top tip. I love it. Now, you're a bit of a forager as well, I hear. I hope that's not rude to say. What are your top foraging tips?听听

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TOMMY BANKS:听So right now, I mean, it's quite an obvious one, but elderflower. So I'm up in Yorkshire, we're probably a little bit behind people in London by probably ten days, although the weather's been so nice here, we're probably about the same. Elderflower I think is just the most incredible flavour. I mean, everyone's had elderflower cordial or a cocktail or a mocktail with it in, and I think if you make elderflower cordial, it's just amazing because you can capture the flavour of, like, sunshine, like you get on a day like today and then you can drink it in winter or something when it's, when it's cold and dark and you're wanting some vitamin D and then you can just drink your elderflower cordial. I think that's the, that would be my top tip right now. Elderflowers.听听

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SAMANTHA BAINES:听I love it. I'm going to get me some chicken thighs and some elderflower on the way home.听听

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TOMMY BANKS:听They'll go together.听听

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SAMANTHA BAINES:听Good. There we go. I've got a meal. Tommy Banks, thank you so much. Your new series of your podcast, Seasoned, is available. Episode one is available on all streaming platforms with further episodes released weekly. You can listen everywhere. Just search "Seasoned" and you can find out more about Tommy Banks on his website, www.tommybanks.co.uk. Thank you so much for joining me. It's Samantha Baines on 麻豆约拍 Radio London. Coming up in the show, we still have Anjana Vasan from Black Mirror coming on to tell us all about her episode. Plus, we have Poppy Delbridge for a bit of tapping. If you don't know what that is, stay tuned. As well as award-winning food writer Clare Finney. I'm Samantha Baines on 麻豆约拍 Radio London, standing in for the lovely Gaby Roslin. I'm with you until three. We still have some wonderful guests coming up. I'm going to be speaking to Rose Ayling-Ellis about her new documentary that comes out tomorrow on 麻豆约拍 One. We've got Anjana Vasan from Black Mirror, Poppy Delbridge. It's a jam-packed show. I'm also asking you for your positive empowerment stories. Don't forget to get in touch. You can text 81333. Start your message with the word, London. You can call 0800 731 2000, or you can tweet us @samanthabaines, @麻豆约拍RadioLondon. We have so many wonderful people coming up in the next two hours. I'm so excited to introduce you to all of them. I'm also really excited because today's show is accessible. So I am deaf myself, I wear a hearing aid and I lip read. All my guests today are in the studio or on video calls, so I'm able to lip read them. I've got Rose Ayling-Ellis coming on later with her interpreter, and also this show will have a transcript which will go up next week on 麻豆约拍 Sounds. So accessibility is important to me and I'm asking you for your positive empowerment stories. Do you have a disabled role model, a deaf role model? Is it Rose? I'll let her know when she comes in later. I'd love to hear from you. Don't forget, you can tweet @samanthabaines, @麻豆约拍RadioLondon. You can text 81333, start your message with the word London, or you can call 0800 731 2000. We still have Poppy Delbridge coming up. She's going to be doing some tapping with us. We've still got to chat about this new series of Black Mirror. If you've seen it yet on Netflix, let me know. I've had a little watch. It's very exciting. And then, of course, Rose Ayling-Ellis, Cerrie Burnell, incredible author, is coming up later in the show as well. But first of all, I'm going to have to play one of my favourite new songs. It's Padam Padam, Kylie Minogue. You might have seen this online, It's huge, it's everywhere, I love it. Padam Padam by Kylie Minogue, one of my new favourite songs. I'm obsessed with it because when you see it on social media, people have taken on the word "Padam" and just use it to mean anything they like and they just talk to each other and say, "Padam" for pardon or hello or, so you know, that's a little challenge for you today. Just say Padam to someone in your life and see how they respond. It's Samantha Baines on 麻豆约拍 Radio London, standing in for Gaby Roslin. I have a lovely guest with me in the studio. Clare Finney is an award winning food writer, Fortnum and Mason Food Writer of the Year 2019, the author of The Female Chef, and her new book, Hungry Heart, which is an exploration of food and love. Welcome to the studio.听听

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CLARE FINNEY:听Thank you so much for having me on.听听

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SAMANTHA BAINES:听Thank you. I'm gripping your book with my hand right now.听听

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CLARE FINNEY:听You are. I can see. Are you also hungry?听

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SAMANTHA BAINES:听Yeah, my heart is always hungry, and my stomach too. So Hungry Heart: A Story of Food and Love. What does that mean?听听

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CLARE FINNEY:听It means exploration of the various ways in which food and love interact in all the different parts of our lives. So family, friends, childhood, grief, celebration, romantic love. It's every single... Well, not every single one. It's by no means comprehensive, but, like, I've tried to include as many ways possible where kind of food is a part and parcel, an intrinsic part of your relationship, or the ways in which we forge connection through food and maintain our connections through food. And I think in a really increasingly busy world, we often come together for food and drink, and that's the times in which we see our friends and see our family. And so it's inevitable that that becomes bound up with it. And I wanted to, particularly now that there's so much kind of, rightly, like, quite a lot of discussion and chatter around what we should be eating, what we shouldn't be eating, I kind of wanted to take a slightly different approach and just take food and drink away from that and explore the emotions around it.听听

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SAMANTHA BAINES:听It's so interesting because when I started reading about your book, I was like, "This makes so much sense. Why don't we talk about this more?" Because, you know, when I'm sad, I want some chocolate with raisins and nuts in or I want a bacon sandwich. Like, I have my go to. What's your go to sad food?听听

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CLARE FINNEY:听Oh, well, my go to sad food is also my go to happy food.听听

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SAMANTHA BAINES:听Oh, that's nice.听听

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CLARE FINNEY:听Which is Diana Henry's linguine with walnuts and anchovies.听听

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SAMANTHA BAINES:听That sounds much healthier than mine.听听

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CLARE FINNEY:听It's not, it's not really. There is so much cheese, so much cheese and a lot of olive oil and chilli flakes. But, yeah, that is... I described it in the book as being a bit like my teddy bear in that he kind of sits on the top of my bed on good days and he sits on the top of my... And he's like in my bed on bad days. But he's kind of, you know, it's a dish that will fill, always fill the hole or celebrate the hole being full.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: It's so interesting because food can become like that comfort blanket for you. And I know I'm divorced myself and I talk a lot about it on social media and a podcast, and I know you mentioned that in your book. You know, when you go through a traumatic life event, say, whether your divorce was traumatic or rejoiceful, that food can be there for you and it can help you through.听

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CLARE听FINNEY: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. It's a... Well, I mean, one of the chapters is about food and not... Not about food and divorce, but it's about the way that, you know, when my parents, well, the relationship that my brother and I have with my dad were kind of very much like forged in the furnace of his single parenting years, and, you know, his cobbling dinners together. I mean, he's a much better cook now. But there was, you know, there was lots of kind of Chicken Tonight and scrambled eggs done in the microwave. We ate well and we ate a very varied diet, but it was always slightly chaotic. And I think back on those years very fondly, you know, there was a kind of Three Musketeers element to those years. And then, and then I go on to talk about how he met my now stepmom. And, you know, we gained two more brothers and the relationship, the family, that our new family was very much kind of forged around the kitchen table and through her rice pudding and her spaghetti bolognese and her lovely lentils and, you know, the dishes that she cooked that we all loved.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: And how did you come up with this idea? I mean, because now you say it, I'm like, of course, food is so intrinsically, intrinsically linked with emotion. But how did you think, right, we need, I need to explore this in a book.听

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CLARE听FINNEY: It started off, it was kind of a very much an accumulation of ideas and thoughts and feelings. But I had for a long time, I had a lot of hapless dates which often involved food and drink and became quite adept at making, weaving those into anecdotes and entertaining my friends with them. And they increasingly said I should make a book out of them.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: Oh, I mean, I have to ask now, what's one of the weird things that happened with food on a date?听听

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CLARE听FINNEY: So many. Like, the weirdest, the one, the big takeaway one is the guy who ate crisps in a pub with chopsticks.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: I'm sorry. Why...?听听

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CLARE听FINNEY: Yeah, I know, I know.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: Why would chop... Did he not want to get the crisp on his hand?听听

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CLARE听FINNEY: Didn't like the crisps on his hand. No, no. He had, like, these little telescopic chopsticks in his pocket and he'd, like, take them out and then...听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: He had them in his pocket? So he'd prepared?听听

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CLARE听FINNEY: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: Why didn't he just not eat the crisps?听听

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CLARE听FINNEY: I don't know. I just don't eat the crisps. I mean, that's what I'd...听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: Wait a minute. I need to recap here. So set the scene. You're in a pub in the evening and you're having drinks, and then who bought the crisps?听听

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CLARE听FINNEY: I think he bought the crisps.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: Wow. So he could have avoided it?听听

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CLARE听FINNEY: Yeah. Yeah.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: He bought the crisps. Did he, like, open the top like you would to put your hand in or did he open the whole packet and like lay it out for both of you?听

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CLARE听FINNEY: Yeah, the normal, like the standard sharing crisps in a pub like platter. Silver platter.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: And then he pulled out chopsticks. And did he reference it at all?听

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CLARE听FINNEY: No, no, no. No.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: And did you reference it?听听

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CLARE听FINNEY: No. No.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES:听OK. I like it. That's, I feel like that's a very British way of approaching it. And if that man is listening now...听

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CLARE听FINNEY: Yeah.听听

听

SAMANTHA听BAINES: ..he inspired your book.听听

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CLARE听FINNEY: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I will not be sending him any of the profits, but...听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: Of course.听听

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CLARE听FINNEY: But I do send him thanks.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: Yeah. Amazing. Well, is that story in the book and can we expect more of those stories?听听

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CLARE听FINNEY: It is. It's about a lot more than dating. In fact, there's only one chapter that is about romantic love. But, yes, there are, there are a few stories like that in the book, for sure.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: Amazing. Well, Clare Finney, thank you so much. Your book, Hungry Heart: A Story of Food and Love by Clare Finney is available.听听

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CLARE听FINNEY: It is, it is.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: On all the good book platforms. And you can also follow Clare @finneyclare on social media. Thank you so much.听

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CLARE听FINNEY: Thank you. Thank you, Samantha.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: I have the lovely Poppy Delbridge in the studio. Hello.听听

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POPPY听DELBRIDGE: Hello, Samantha Baines.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: Hello. Thanks for joining me. Poppy is a mind coach, speaker, author and tapping expert. She has a book out called Tapping In, by Poppy Delbridge, Manifest the Life You Want with the Transformative Power of Tapping. I'm in. I'm excited. Let's read it. Now, I've been, I've been saying we've got you coming on and we're going to be doing tapping. And if people don't know what that is to stay tuned. Can you reveal what tapping is, please?听听

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POPPY听DELBRIDGE: Yes, I can. It's not tap dancing.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: Lovely.听听

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POPPY听DELBRIDGE: So it's a solution really, for stress, anxiety, overwhelm, and it's been around since the 1980s. It was developed by a psychologist. It's pretty much part psychology and part touch therapy. So you'll see me tapping on my face a lot, and that makes me feel better and helps me to have a very good life.听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: I love it. So you literally use the ends of your fingers and you tap on your face and sometimes on your chest, and it's like a way... It's almost like meditation or something, would you say?听听

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POPPY听DELBRIDGE: Yeah, like kind of micro meditation. But you're, you're saying words at the same time. That's the cognition bit. So you're actually saying affirmations, if you've ever used them. You know, like, "I'm feeling good today," if you don't really believe it. It's a really good thing to use tapping at the same time because it helps you to actually release some of the emotion that we all go through in life, which is just life. And then it helps you to believe what you're saying a bit more by the end of a tap, which takes a couple of minutes.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: I'm very excited by this. Would you do a tap with me?听听

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POPPY听DELBRIDGE: Absolutely.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: We can all join in and do this. I think, let's prepare ourselves. Let's get a little bit of Seal first on and then we're going to tap. That's Seal, Crazy. It's Samantha Baines on 麻豆约拍 Radio London, standing in for the wonderful Gaby Roslin. I am joined by Poppy Delbridge in the studio. You are a rapid tapper.听听

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POPPY听DELBRIDGE: I am.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: Is that a title that we're听OK听with, rapid tapper?听听

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POPPY听DELBRIDGE: Yes. Absolutely.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: Rapid tapping is what you do. You have your book, Tapping In, all about manifesting. And we were talking about tapping there before the break. You are also a trained energy psychologist. What does that mean?听听

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POPPY听DELBRIDGE: Well, I work with the mind, but I also work with emotions. Because when you think about energy, really, that's kind of emotions, yeah? Just moving. And so when we want to feel better, it's important to think about the body as well and the energy of the body, the energy that we carry into the day. So I'm interested in helping people to have maximum energy and to feel as good as they can in the mind by reducing the thought loops, you know, the stress that goes through us all most of the time, every day. So the rapid tapping bit is about quickly coming back to a place of wellbeing.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: I like that. So I have anxiety. I'm sort of very open about that on my social media and I take medication for it, and I can definitely find myself getting caught in those loops of telling myself something that worries me. And then it goes round and round in your head. So is tapping a good way to kind of break that, then?听听

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POPPY听DELBRIDGE: Exactly. So you're interrupting the loop that goes on, because it's very, it works with the brain, a lot of tapping. So you're working to reduce a part of the brain that releases the stress hormone, cortisol. So when you're anxious, that's because that's being released, because we're used to it as humans, as a pattern. We used to need it when we were running from tigers and we had physical threat. But now we have a psychological threat. Like a lot of stuff, like you're saying, like the anxiety is so prevalent within us all that this helps to interrupt that pattern and release that as an energy through the body which we carry. And also in the mind, which is the thought pattern thing. So that's how it works on two levels.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: I like you said about running from tigers. I like to see my anxiety as like an anxiety tiger, like running in my head round and round. So how did you discover rapid tapping? How did this become a part of your life?听听

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POPPY听DELBRIDGE: Mm. Well, tapping has been a part of my life for a really long time and there's different strands to it. And rapid tapping is the one that incorporates belief change and manifesting. But it was actually my mum and dad who really got me into it when they were, when they were bringing me up. And then I went through, as you know, a messy time in my own life. And my mum sort of said, "Poppy, why don't you do tapping again?" This was a long, long time ago, and I did, and it really helped me to just feel like myself again and to cut through all of the self-sabotage that could have happened at that time. And since then, I've just really become obsessed with it, I'll be honest.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: Well, you have to be a bit obsessed with something to write a book, I feel.听

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POPPY听DELBRIDGE: You do.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: I know this as an author.听听

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POPPY听DELBRIDGE: Yes, yes, it works. Yeah.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: So, and you have a lot of quite high profile clients, Fearne Cotton, Laura Whitmore. Why do you think, and you're a busy woman yourself, why do you think this seems to work for busy working women, busy working mums?听听

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POPPY听DELBRIDGE: Mm. Because it's really, really quick. It works very, very quickly. It's evidence based, so it's clinically proven. And I think in a time when you just haven't really got time to learn something difficult or kind of necessarily go off and find a practitioner or go to the gym or get changed and all of that, tou can do this anywhere any time, and you really only need your fingers and, you know, a set of wordings to say which I've tried to put into the book for people to get going. So I think that's why it's, it's really popular with people who are time short. Yeah.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: And what can people expect from the book, Tapping In?听听

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POPPY听DELBRIDGE: Well, you're going to learn a lot about tapping, but more than that, you're going to learn about how to use it to manifest a life that you actually want, because I believe that it's a really helpful coping tool but then I also believe more than that. Like sometimes we're depriving yourself of living a life we actually want, like living in joy and understanding how to play with our emotions and our energy so that we can just feel better. So you'll find a lot there about going for the things that maybe previously you haven't thought about going for in life. And so it's really a little bit about how I've used it and some of the ways that I've used it with some of my clients and people through the years, but really I want people to use it as a tool and make it really simple for people to do it themselves. You don't necessarily have to come to me as a practitioner. Just start using it and see the benefits.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: And I've done it with you before and I found it really useful, which is why I wanted to get you on to talk about your book. And, you know, I've been divorced and I've spoken to you about yours as well. And I think sometimes you find these coping mechanisms during a hard time in your life. You know, when I got divorced, my dad also died fairly recently, so it was quite an intense time for me. And at that time I just wanted to find anything that would help. But what I like about this is it seems that you can use it then even when you're happy just to help.听听

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POPPY听DELBRIDGE: That's right, and that's why rapid tapping was developed, actually, to sort of say, "Look, I'm feeling quite good today. How can I cement this in?" I call it sealing it in, so that you actually train your mind, train your brain to create neural pathways that help you through life, so they help you to remember that information of when we're excited or happy, and we need to do that because we are negative bias human beings, unfortunately. So we really need to help ourselves out. And you know, when you do that, you can train yourself to feel better every single day. Until then, you really do want to go for things, become more confident and believe in yourself. So that's why I wrote it.听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: I love that. So we're going to do that now. We're going to do a positive tapping, so everyone, you can join in wherever you are. If you're driving, maybe don't. Keep your hands on the steering wheel. But if you're somewhere where your hands are free, please join in. We've got a couple of minutes and we're going to do a relaxing Sunday rapid tapping. So, Poppy, tell us what to do.听听

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POPPY听DELBRIDGE: Lovely. So super simple. Just get your hands and put them across your heart. So one hand on top of the other. That's it. And then just move your hands out a little bit like a butterfly. So move out, so a couple of inches down from your collarbone and push. So you'll find we're massaging now. We're not tapping, but we're pushing. Yeah, that's it.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: Oh, that's a bit of a sore spot.听听

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POPPY听DELBRIDGE: That's it. The sore spots are what you want. This is helping your nervous system to regulate. So you'll say with me, and it really is helpful with tapping just to notice, I call it acknowledge, where you're at and just accept it. So let's say we're a little bit scared that it's Sunday. So let's say, "I feel a bit nervous because it's Sunday."听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: Should I repeat that? We're all doing this together in the studio, I tell you. I feel a bit nervous because it's Sunday.听听

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POPPY听DELBRIDGE: I feel nervous because...a new week is coming.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: I feel nervous because a new week is coming, true.听听

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POPPY听DELBRIDGE: But it is possible for me to remember to relax.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: I'm still massaging, by the way. It's possible for me to remember to relax.听

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POPPY听DELBRIDGE: Good, and then just try taking a deep breath in through your nose. Letting it out through your mouth. That's good. Now get your hands and take them to the middle points of your eyebrows. So in between your eyebrows near your nose.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: So just like two fingers.听听

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POPPY听DELBRIDGE: Two fingers, both hands.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: In between your eyebrows tapping.听听

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POPPY听DELBRIDGE: And tap. You want to get the bony bits. And these are energy points. So when you tap on these and you say certain things, you're basically helping yourself release emotions you don't want,听OK? So let's say, I can relax.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: I can relax.听听

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POPPY听DELBRIDGE: And then move to the side of your eyes, your temples, and say, I can relax.听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: I can relax. Good, and then under your eyes just flutter around a bit. That's it. I can relax.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: I can relax. So we're just tapping, fluttering our fingers under our eyes. That feels very nice.听听

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POPPY听DELBRIDGE: It does, doesn't it? Under your nose. I can relax.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: I can relax.听听

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POPPY听DELBRIDGE: Remember to breathe, so just take one here. Out through your mouth, under your chin. Good. I can relax.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: I can relax.听听

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POPPY听DELBRIDGE: And then go all the way down until you get back to where we started. And then tap around here with me, heart and collarbone, and just say, it is possible for me to relax.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: It is possible for me to relax.听听

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POPPY听DELBRIDGE: Good, and then just hold back where we started. Take a deep breath in through your nose. Let it out through your mouth. And then shake out your hands, get a bit of movement going.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: Oh, I loved that.听听

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POPPY听DELBRIDGE: Just a very quick version. A little rapid tap for you.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: Yeah, I love that. I do actually feel possibly too relaxed to do the rest of the radio show now. So that's it, we're finished. No, don't worry. I'm still here. Poppy, thank you so much. That was brilliant. Her book, Tapping In by Poppy Delbridge is available at all good book shops and you're on social media as well. We can follow you @rapidtapping and @PoppyDelbridge. Thank you so much.听听

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POPPY听DELBRIDGE: Thank you for having me.听听

听

SAMANTHA听BAINES: My next guest won an Olivier Award - whoa! - last month for Best Actress in a Supporting Role for her performance of Stella in A Streetcar Named Desire. Next up, she is the lead in an episode of the new series of Black Mirror. The episode is called Demon 79, set in northern England in 1979. Please welcome Anjana Vasan to the show. Hello.听

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ANJANA听ASAN: Hello. Hi. Thank you for having me.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: Thank you so much. It's lovely to meet an Olivier Award-winning actress. I love that that's your... You just laugh. How did it feel to win an Olivier?听

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ANJANA听VASAN: It's still very surreal. I don't think it's real yet for me. I feel very shy about it. I feel like it's not very real, but, um, yeah, it's... It's amazing.听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: Do you have.... Do you have it at home, the Olivier? Where have you situated it?听听

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ANJANA听VASAN: It is at home. When I brought it home, it was still in my bag for days because I couldn't bear like taking it out of my bag. And then my boyfriend said, you have to take it out at some point and put it on display. So it's on a desk somewhere where I can see it, but it feels like it's not mine. It's just very, you know, it feels very larger than life.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: Does it feel like you're just borrowing it for a little bit?听听

听

ANJANA听VASAN: I feel like I'm... I feel like someone will knock on my door at any point and say, "I'm so sorry. We've made a mistake. We have to take it back."听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: I don't think they will. I think you're allowed to keep it. Lots of people seem to make shelves, because you've won a lot of awards now, haven't you? An听RTS听award, Bafta-nominated. Maybe you need like a shelf in your bathroom. That's the thing to do, isn't it?听

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ANJANA听VASAN: I think that's, that's what I hear people do is like it's very fashionable to put awards in bathrooms. That's what I hear.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: So people can have a look when they visit the bathroom.听听

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ANJANA听VASAN: Yeah. Yeah.听听

听

SAMANTHA听BAINES: Anyway, enough about bathrooms. You are in the new series of Black Mirror. Now, I've only watched half of your episode, so no spoilers, please.听

听

ANJANA听VASAN:听OK.听听

听

SAMANTHA听BAINES: But I was really intrigued to find out, being called Demon 79, that it's actually quite funny as well as a bit scary.听

听

ANJANA听VASAN: Oh, yeah. Yeah, and that's what I loved about the script. It was this really ambitious episode that felt, I mean, we call the episode a Red Mirror film, which I think is a clue for audiences that as much as it's kind of identifiably Black Mirror, it's almost like a parallel world to Black Mirror. There's an element of the supernatural. You mentioned the demon, and it's bleak and it's terrifying, but it's also funny and it's also surprising. And those were the ingredients in the script that made me want to say yes and be a part of this world and a part of Nida's journey in the story.听听

听

SAMANTHA听BAINES: And what's it like going into something like Black Mirror? Because it's quite an iconic show. Each episode, as you said, like it's almost a mini film, like it really has its own feeling, atmosphere and aesthetic as well.听听

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ANJANA听VASAN: I mean, I've been a huge Black Mirror fan from, you know, the moment the first episode came out on Channel 4. Like, I've watched all of the episodes, I think, of Black Mirror. So just to be a part of that world, and this episode was co-written by Bisha K Ali. So you know, Charlie and Bisha make this, like, wonderful team. I think their writing really complements each other. I just thought it was a very special, special Black Mirror episode, so I couldn't believe my luck that I got the job. And it was working with Paapa, who was one of my favourite actors. So it really was like a dream come true.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: It's a really strong cast, and also I love Bisha's work. I used to do stand-up comedy with her years ago, if you can believe, before she went big time.听

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ANJANA听VASAN: Well, now you can believe why the script is so funny, because between Charlie and Bisha, they're very funny people.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: And there's a really strong aesthetic in your episode, particularly as well, like that 1979 in Northern England. What was it like to, you know, work and have your role within that really solid world that was created?听听

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ANJANA听VASAN: Yeah, I mean, Matthew Price, our designer, is incredible. And you know, when I walked onto the set for the first time, where it's the Posset's shoe shop is where Nida, my character works, and there were so many different shades of beige and brown and I felt like she was just like this wallflower that blended into the background in this department store and I'd find myself mentally counting the different shades one day on set while I was waiting to do a scene. But it's just, it's so incredible how they've sort of brought it to life, and they've got a lot of messages from people saying like, this feels, this feels so authentic to me. Um, yeah, it's like... And I love, I love that time period. So it was a great... It just felt like a very imaginative place to be.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: And you've done so many brilliant roles. I mean, obviously you're in Black Mirror now, done Killing Eve, We Are Lady Parts, Sex Education. What's been your favourite job to date?听听

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ANJANA听VASAN: Well, that is a very, very difficult question.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: I'm sorry!听听

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ANJANA听VASAN: I would say, honestly, Demon 79 has been one of my favourite jobs I've ever done. It felt like, I think I do a lot of theatre, and on this it felt like I was doing a play. I think maybe because of the cast and it was just a small group of us and it felt like we were in our own little world and it was quite heightened and it really just felt very collaborative and very fun. And I think the correct answer to say, like, the latest job is your favourite job, and that's Demon 79.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: So do you think you prefer theatre then, because you said it felt like a play and obviously you're Olivier Award-winning?听

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ANJANA听VASAN: Well, I think that's where I started and that's where I fell in love with acting and that's what I wanted to be. I just wanted to be a theatre actor. And, you know, I've worked mostly in theatre, film and听TV听I feel like it's fairly new to me still. You know, We Are Lady Parts didn't come out not so long ago, so I'm still getting used to that world of film and听TV. I really love it, but I think my first love is theatre.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: Well, it doesn't look like you're new to it. It looks like you've been doing it for years. Finally, before I let you go, what is... What's that role that you've always wanted to do that you've never had a chance to yet?听听

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ANJANA听VASAN: Oh, my gosh. I would love to do something... Maybe something a bit sort of glamorous and something... Play someone, you know, play a real life person or something, but I'll have to sort of think really hard about who. But, yeah, just something a bit different. I feel like the last couple of characters, they've been sort of quite quiet and shy and I think I'd like to play someone quite bold and out there.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: Oh, I like it. I liked your face when you did it as well. You did a sort of like glamorous hair flip, almost.听听

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ANJANA听VASAN: I was doing my audition for you.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: Thank you. I'm convinced.听听

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ANJANA听VASAN: Someone who has red lipstick for a change, you know?听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: I love it. Well, thank you so much for joining me, Anjana Vasan. The new series of Black Mirror is available now on Netflix. Check out her episode, Demon 79. It's very good. I've been asking you for your positive empowerment stories, your role models. Thank you for all your messages and your tweets. Laura Barker says Lady Gaga and Rose Ayling-Ellis are her role models, and me. Thanks! Katie Littlejohn says Rose and Yvonne Cobb. I love her. Rebecca Mansell as well,听CEO听of the听BDA. And don't forget, you can get in touch with me as well on social media, @samanthabaines and @麻豆约拍RadioLondon. It's me, Samantha Baines, standing in for the wonderful Gaby Roslin. In true Gaby style, we have a jam-packed show in the final hour. Thank you for sticking with me. Coming up, we've got Cerrie Burnell, a brilliant author. I love her children's books. We're going to be talking more about those. Rose Ayling-Ellis is coming up. Thank you for your tweets saying you're so excited about hearing from her. If you have any questions, let me know. Don't forget, I'm asking for your positive empowerment stories. As I mentioned, I'm deaf myself, I wear a hearing aid. I consider myself to be part of the disabled community and I have lots of brilliant role models that make me excited to be part of the community, and I'd love to hear from you. Who are your deaf and disabled role models? Who are your queer role models? Because it's Pride Week, of course, and I'm a bisexual woman myself. Don't forget, you can call me 0800 731 2000. You can also text 81333. Start your message with the word, London. And as you have been doing, you can continue to tweet me @samanthabaines, @麻豆约拍RadioLondon. We also have Nancy Sullivan coming up later in the show from Changing Ends, which is on听ITVX. And I might have played a little part in it. I'm just saying. My next guest is in the studio. I'm a big fan of her and I've never met her before. This is Cerrie Burnell. She's a celebrated children's author. She comes with a new magical tale, Wilder Than Midnight. And now we're talking about the sequel, Swifter Than Starlight, which comes out in July. Cerrie, welcome.听听

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CERRIE听BURNELL: It's so lovely to meet you in person. We've had this online sort of connection, and I just love it when you get to meet women who you really admire in real life. So thank you so much for inviting me in. I'm super quickly going to just audio describe myself in the spirit of inclusion.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: Please do.听听

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CERRIE听BURNELL: I'm a white woman. I'm very hot, not in a good way. All my make-up has melted off on the train. I've got long blonde hair. I'm in a yellow sort of summery dress. I've got silver Birkenstocks on that are so comfortable. And I also have one hand, which is sometimes described as an upper limb difference. That's a very long way of saying I was born with one hand.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: Amazing. Shall I join in?听听

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CERRIE听BURNELL: If you like, yes! yes.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: I should have done this at the beginning of the show. I'm sorry. I should have done this at the beginning. I am also a white woman. I have black, curly hair and a nose piercing, and I have quite a few tattoos. I'm quite curvy and I like wearing bright lipstick. But as Cerrie said, my lipstick has come off because it's hot and a little bit sweaty, and I'm wearing a blue, light blue dress with a T-shirt underneath.听听

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CERRIE听BURNELL: And you've got some gorgeous jewellery on as well. It's mega.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: Thank you.听听

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CERRIE听BURNELL: Really beautiful.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: I love a bit of jewellery. So I'm so excited to have you on because I am a big fan of your children's books. I also write children's books, so I end up reading a lot of them. And I always say everyone should read children's books. You finish them quicker so you feel like you've achieved something.听听

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CERRIE听BURNELL: You've accomplished something, yes!听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: And they're very magical.听听

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CERRIE听BURNELL: Yes.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: What got you into children's books?听听

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CERRIE听BURNELL: I think really it was becoming a parent, so I had always written, but I'd never sort of pursued publishing. I was an actor first, then I was on听CBeebies, which is its own kind of magic. And when my daughter was born, she's dual heritage. And so I rushed out into book shops and I really wanted to find, you know, gorgeous, inclusive picture books that had protagonists in that would reflect our family. So a solo parent and a brown child, a white mum, and I, I found some but just not enough. And so really, that was the motivation to go, "Right, come on, let's do it." And that was 14 books ago. And so now, you know, I've gone from picture books to chapter books and now middle grade, which is just the most amazing age group to write for. It's sort of age nine to 12.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: And I love that whole story. And also, I love that you've done 14 children... I've only done two children's books. How do you do 14? What is your writing schedule?听听

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CERRIE听BURNELL: Chaos. It's just chaos and coffee and just never surrender, never give up. I think that's...听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: Excellent advice for life.听听

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CERRIE听BURNELL: Yes. Yes. That's the way I've got through it. So I love... I don't have an office. I don't even have a particular space in the house. I just write anywhere, really. And I love writing in coffee shops. I pre-pandemic would write at any time of day or night, but then after the pandemic I realised, don't do that, get up early and start writing in the morning and so that you can have, you know, a sort of more almost normal day and you can have an evening and a lunch break at a sort of sensible time, rather than just being, you know, kind of in and out of writing and life all the time. But I think when you work in creative industries, having adventures and also having rest is really important because you have to recharge, and your creative energy and your imagination just... It needs a chance to recover so it can flare up really beautifully.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: Oh, this is good advice for me because I'm terrible. I forget to have lunch. I write on my sofa, so I'm like hunched over and then I have a crick in my neck and my back, so that's good advice. Thank you.听听

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CERRIE听BURNELL: I think at-home yoga has saved me from that.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: How do you have time for that and 14 books?听听

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CERRIE听BURNELL: It's in the morning. In the morning, I'm amazing in the morning. By 2:00, I'm in bed, so...听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: I'm the other way round. I wake up at 2:00. Maybe not two. Today, I had to get up earlier, but, yeah, I'm better in the evening, actually.听听

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CERRIE听BURNELL: Are you?听OK.听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: But obviously you said earlier that representation is important in your books and I'm deaf, as I've been talking about on this show. And both of our books were actually shortlisted for the Adrian Prize.听听

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CERRIE听BURNELL: They were. That's how we met, yes.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: For disabled representation. So why is disabled representation particularly important in your books?听听

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CERRIE听BURNELL: Well, I think when you have that lived experience of growing up with a disability, so many of us haven't seen ourselves represented in books. You know, maybe we were a side character, but really when I was little, it was Captain Hook or The Secret Garden and that was it. And there were no kind of cool pirates who were female with one hand or, you know, adventurers with any kind of disability that felt empowering or just even that the disability wasn't the issue. Do you know what I mean? So, for me, I really love fairy tales and this book in particular and its prequel, if you like, Wilder Than Midnight, are fairy tale retellings, where I've put a disabled protagonist at the heart of the story so that the fairy tale, all of that darkness and that wildness and that wickedness that children love about fairy tales, the wolves and the teeth and the witches, all of that is told through a disability lens. And the disability is there, of course, but it's sort of absorbed within the world of the story.听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: That's what I love about your books is that you've got kind of really sassy... I don't know if sassy is the right word. I used to be called sassy when I was younger.听听

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CERRIE听BURNELL: Sassy, yes. I love it.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: Sassy female characters with disabilities, but their disability never holds them back, which I love. And also they're still like going out and having adventures and doing other things that aren't centred around their disability.听

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CERRIE听BURNELL: They're all about the adventures. And actually, I want to say a huge thank you to you, Sam, because you were an inclusivity reader for me on this draft of my latest book, which is called Swifter Than Starlight. And I think sometimes people can think that having an inclusivity reader or a sensitivity reader can be negative, that, you know, they can feel like someone's gatekeeping their work or censoring them. But I'm just here to champion inclusivity readers because I think they're golden, especially if you want to write about diversity or disability and you, the writer, don't have that lived experience. Asking someone else's advice is just such an amazing gift to have. And one of the characters in the book, Raven, he's obviously deaf, and I just felt that as soon as you came on board, all of your comments and all of your absolutely compassionate, heartfelt insight just lifted that character off the page. So the book is so much better because of you.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: Oh, thank you. Well, thank you for including a deaf character. Because I was so excited, I was very excited to get an early copy and I was so excited to read it. And I loved Wilder Than Midnight originally and then now with Swifter Than Starlight with the new deaf character, I'm even more excited. So thank you so much for joining me. Swifter Than Starlight: Exclusive Edition by Cerrie Burnell is published on the 13th of July. Can people pre-order it now?听听

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CERRIE听BURNELL: Absolutely, yes, please do.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: And please do.听

听

CERRIE听BURNELL: Please do!听听

听

SAMANTHA听BAINES: That's very important, isn't it, pre-orders for books?听听

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CERRIE听BURNELL: Yes.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: It's published by Penguin Random House, and Cerrie Burnell, thank you so much for joining me.听

听

CERRIE听BURNELL; It's been a real pleasure. Thank you, Sam.听听

听

SAMANTHA听BAINES: Thank you so much for all your messages. I'm asking for your positive empowerment role models and we're talking about deafness and disability. We just spoke to Cerrie Burnell, who has amazing disability representation in her children's books. I've got a message from Charlotte saying, "As a totally blind 39-year-old who wants to come out but is not confident enough to and has hearing aids in both ears, I can say without hesitation that you're one of my role models." Thank you, Charlotte. I don't know if that was for me or Cerrie, but I'll take it. Now we are joined by the fantastic British actress, Strictly Come Dancing 2021 winner Rose Ayling-Ellis. Hello.听

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ROSE听AYLING-ELLIS: Hello. Lovely to see you.听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: Hi. Lovely to see you. Thank you for joining us. I hear you've got a new documentary out tomorrow.听

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ROSE听AYLING-ELLIS: Yes, I do. I have a documentary coming out tomorrow on 麻豆约拍 One at 9pm.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: Now, this is very exciting. Prime-time 麻豆约拍 One. I'm very happy about that. What can we expect from your documentary?听

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ROSE听AYLING-ELLIS: I think what a lot of people will not expect about how so many deaf people are not the same. We're all so different, but at the same time we're all facing the same sort of issues. And I would be, I think some people would be surprised how much challenge that we have to face that, for example, so many parents and family have to pay so much money to learn听BSL听and how unacceptable that is.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: Definitely, and we're both deaf. Obviously, I became deaf later or I discovered I was deaf later in life and I never had access to听BSL. So I'm paying now myself to learn听BSL, which is an amazing language, British sign language, and it feels like it gives me so much freedom, learning it and being able to use it. So how important has听BSL... How important a role in your life has BSL played?听

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ROSE听AYLING-ELLIS: Yeah, so, for example, I think with lip reading and listening, it's never 100%. And also, the thing with my hearing, you can pick up a sound, but learning to recognise these sounds is really, really difficult and it's really hard. So sometimes with the British sign language, you just need that break from it all and it kind of gave me the time to just be 100%. It's a language where I can understand 100% and I get full access, and also I get to meet other deaf people. And when I meet up with deaf people, we don't really speak to each other. We just automatically sign to each other. It's something that is natural to us, where if I was with a hearing person, I speak, so it's almost as if I'm speaking because of hearing people, not the other way round. If it were just me, I'd probably just sign all the time.听听

听

SAMANTHA听BAINES: It's amazing, because when we met we were in quite a loud environment because it was a cinema, so I was lip reading and I've got my basic听BSL and I... I'm very sorry that I showed you my basic BSL skills.听

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ROSE听AYLING-ELLIS: No, no, it's you're starting it from somewhere, which is great and you're on your way. So give it five years and then you'll be an expert.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: Well, but it was so nice to be in a room full of deaf people signing, and, you know, I was able to sign to the back of the cinema to say hello to you and how are you, and it felt like a really nice environment to be in. How often do you get to be in those environments?听

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ROSE听AYLING-ELLIS: Well, in London it's quite often that I do meet up with a lot of deaf people. Like, only maybe the last time I've been in that environment, probably last weekend. I went for my friend's 30th birthday and everyone was deaf. So I do go in that environment, but it's not every day, so it's not at work. At work, it's always full of hearing people. My whole family is hearing people. So it's really nice to have that little estate and go somewhere where I can sign. Yeah, so how often for you? Did it feel really nice to be able to be in an environment where everyone is just similar to you?听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: Yeah, definitely, and I think it, being part of the deaf community feels really wonderful. So when we can get in a room with other people, and obviously it's a newer experience for me and I have... My mum's deaf as well, but I have a hearing, mostly hearing family, so it is nice to be able to talk to other people who get it and know that I lip read and be in an environment where we stand near the lights so we can all see each other's lips.听

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ROSE听AYLING-ELLIS: Yes, 100%, and I think assuming it's natural that we are looking for a place where we belong, and that is an environment that we all belong and we can talk about it to each other without having to explain why. If I was around with hearing people and they want to know more about me being deaf, I kind of explain things. But with deaf people, it's like, no, I don't have to explain.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: Yeah. And so what would it mean... You said quite often in the industry, you're never in that environment where you can relax, where you can sign. What would it mean to be in a production which was all deaf people or all听BSL听signers and users?听

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ROSE听AYLING-ELLIS: Yeah. So, interestingly, for this documentary, half of us are deaf. So I have the director, Ted Evans, and he's deaf. And Cathy, Kathy Heffernan, I can't pronounce her name, and she's the producer, and both of them are deaf, and it really does make a bit different, because quite often I go in and I work with them on the camera and then, and then sometimes the script's not quite right. And I'm always working on the set doing these things and it's such a short note, but with this I can go away, do other jobs, and knowing that it's in safe hands. Especially when you're talking about being deaf and it's about, a documentary about deaf people, and think it's really important to have more than one deaf person behind the scene. And they can back each other up, because normally it's always just one person, but there's three of us. So it's talking about our experience and sharing that. But, yeah, yeah, and that was really nice. It does make a big difference, and the hearing people have learned a lot. I think it's quite nice to have half-half, because most of the people watching that documentary are going to be hearing, so it needs to be accessible for hearing people to understand what this documentary is about and about our culture. But then at the same time, it's good to have deaf people to sort of share what we want to share. It's a nice balance to have. And all the hearing people who've been working on my documentary, their mind was blown up because they were like, "Oh, my God, I did not realise how much stuff behind being deaf is." Yeah.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: And what do you think were some of the things that those hearing people were the most shocked by? Was it like concentration fatigue from lip reading or...?听

听

ROSE听AYLING-ELLIS: I think the lack of accessibility to听BSL, that idea of trying to fit us as if we want to be fit and being in... And deaf identity and how important that is. Because sometimes if you, when you're a child and you're... So, yeah, when you're like a child and you're in speech and language therapy and you have a hearing aid and they're telling you, "Oh, you're doing really well, you're hearing really well, you're doing this well." And it's almost like you're really trying so hard to be the same as everyone else is, and it sometimes can affect you. It can affect your own identity. You think that there's something wrong with you, but really, we should be brought up that there's nothing wrong with us, there's nothing wrong with being deaf. I think that will change the way people think about disabilities and being deaf. I think what people will hopefully realise is that disabled people have always been around since humans exist, so why, where has that obsession of trying to fit us all come from?听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: Absolutely. I'm so excited. I'm so excited to see your documentary. Will you stay with us? Because I want to play a little song and then come back to you and chat more about this.听

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ROSE听AYLING-ELLIS: Yeah, I'm not going to go anywhere.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: Perfect. We'll be back with Rose after this. That's The Weeknd. Save Your Tears on 麻豆约拍 Radio London. It's Samantha Baines standing in for the brilliant Gaby Roslin. We are joined by the wonderful Rose Ayling-Ellis. Her documentary, Signs For Change, airs tomorrow, 9pm on 麻豆约拍 One. I've got you on a video call with your lovely interpreter, Bev. Thank you, Bev. Rose, we're talking about your documentary and how much it means and being in environments with lots of deaf people. And I love that you've created your own environment with this documentary because there are deaf people working on it with you. What would you like to see more of in the industry? Is it more of that or is it more of听BSL, because now it's legally recognised as a language? What do we need to see next with that?听

听

ROSE听AYLING-ELLIS: Well, I've got a very long list.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: Great.听

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ROSE听AYLING-ELLIS: So I'm trying to do like one step at a time. So I think what I hope to get out of the documentary is that the government will be able to watch it and maybe think about how we could perhaps make听BSL听free for a family that need it. Because at the moment the biggest problem that I see is that when a child is born into a hearing family, and 90% of deaf children come from a hearing family, and one in ten of them learn听BSL, the rest of them don't. But when they do learn听BSL, it's normally one parent that goes to the听BSLclass because they can't afford it and then come home, not only teaching the child, but also teaching the whole family. When I would love that my brother could be able to go and learn it and my dad and then all my, like my uncle and my cousin and all of these family could come and learn it. But that's not accessible. And that's why I'm hoping the government are able to help out with that. But in the听TV听industry, what I'm hoping to see is that, for example, Ted and Kathy, they do their job amazingly and I would love to see them going onto a project, perhaps working on climate change or a documentary about cats, or, do you know, it doesn't have to be about deaf people all the time? I would love to see that happening, but one step at a time.听听

听

SAMANTHA听BAINES: Yeah, and I guess auditioning for roles, I'm sure you don't have to audition any more because everyone just knows you're wonderful, but auditioning for roles that aren't just a "deaf role," in inverted commas, it's just a great role and you can play it and also be deaf.听

听

ROSE听AYLING-ELLIS: Yeah, that's the thing. We don't have enough deaf writers to write these scripts, so that's my biggest challenge at the moment, is that I would really love to play the role and there's so many people that's interested, but it's almost we have to find like a deaf consultant to be able to look over a script and add detail. And I'm doing that quite a lot, but I would love to see more deaf writers and the industry to be more confident and not, and not have that fear. I think the problem is a lot of people have fear of bringing in someone that doesn't necessarily have a load of experience, but they know what it's like to be deaf. And that is something that hearing people will never, ever get 100%. So it's that collaboration and I want to see more of that.听听

听

SAMANTHA听BAINES: It's interesting that you said earlier about, you know, deaf people aren't all the same, we all have different experiences. I've been told before on a project that I'm not deaf enough to play a deaf role. Have you ever had some strange feedback in the industry?听

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ROSE听AYLING-ELLIS: Yeah, I have been told that I'm not deaf enough because I speak, but at the same time we all are deaf and we all have the same sort of experience. We all have a barrier, and you are deaf enough, I am deaf enough, and it's about being proud. But the thing is, these people saying that to you, they come from an experience of trauma. So we've got to understand why they say these things to us. I'm aware that I do have privilege of being able to speak clearly because... Not because... It's because the society listens to me more when I speak, but when I sign, they don't necessarily listen to me, take it seriously, do you know what I mean? So we've got to bring everyone together. The whole deaf community needs to come together, and that's the same in every minority group. Every minority group have the group that... It's like being a woman as well. You have some women that pull down other women. It's the same in the deaf community. You have deaf people that pull down other deaf people. But it all comes from a place of trauma. And hopefully with this documentary, we can understand more where this trauma comes from.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: Well, thank you, Rose. We're totally behind you. I can't wait to watch this documentary and force all of my family and friends to watch it. I'm sure they won't need much forcing. And we're so behind you with the law change as well. So let us know. We all follow you on social media, but let us know how we can get involved with you on that.听

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ROSE听AYLING-ELLIS: Yeah, and I feel so lucky because I have so many deaf people that support me, and also hearing people. I could never be more grateful than I am. I just love every single person that supports me. It's lovely.听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: Thank you. Well, Rose Ayling-Ellis, it's been a joy. Her new documentary, Signs for Change, airs tomorrow. That's Monday 26th of June at 9pm on 麻豆约拍 One and 麻豆约拍 iPlayer. Thank you again, Rose.听

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ROSE听AYLING-ELLIS: Yeah, watch it, people! Watch it if you want.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: "Watch it," she says. Watch it. Niall Horan on 麻豆约拍 Radio London. It's Samantha Baines standing in for Gaby Roslin. We had the lovely Rose Ayling-Ellis there, and just to say this...episode, I was going to call it, like a documentary. This show will be transcribed and the transcription will be available on 麻豆约拍 Sounds next week for anyone who wants to listen again and follow along with the transcript. But for now, I have a very exciting guest. So I may have played a very small comedy role in a show called Changing Ends. It's a brand-new autobiographical comedy starring Alan Carr. It's co-written by Alan and it's based on his own life in Northampton in the 1980s. It's available on听ITVX. I played a very small part called Fiona, but someone who played a much bigger part is joining me. It's Nancy Sullivan. Hello.听

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NANCY听SULLIVAN: Hello. Fiona was brilliant. She was a big part of the episode. Don't put it down, Sam.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES:听OK. I'm calling it a comedy cameo because it makes me feel more important.听听

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NANCY听SULLIVAN: Totally stole the scene, babes. You stole the scene.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: So you play, Nancy Sullivan, you play Alan's mum. What was it like playing Alan's mum in front of Alan Carr?听听

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NANCY听SULLIVAN: Do you know what? It was surprisingly reassuring because Alan had a say in the casting. So I think that if Alan hadn't had a say and I'd turned up being his mum, it would probably be really daunting. But because I knew he'd signed it off and I knew he was quite happy with it, and I think that his mum watched the tape and said, "Oh, I like her hair." So...听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: So maybe your hair got you the part?听听

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NANCY听SULLIVAN: My hair got me the job. Um, so actually, it actually was actually reassuring that I was along the right lines, and that if there was anything with Alan, I could ask him because he was around quite a bit. So I felt I was kind of doing quite a good portrayal because, I mean, it's her son, so, you know, don't get more honest than that. So, yeah.听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: Absolutely. And we we, we met on set, we got to act together. And I have to say, it's one of the nicest sets I've been on in a long time. Like, everyone was so happy and laughing, and was it like that the whole way through?听听

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NANCY听SULLIVAN: Honestly, yeah, and I think it feeds down from the top. Like, Alan's energy, as you see him on听TV, is exactly the same. Exactly the same all the time off, off camera. The energy of the director, Dave, was really similar, really, really up and enthusiastic and that just feeds down to everyone. So even if you are feeling a bit tired and some of the days are like really long, the minute you're on set with Alan and Dave and then, you know, you've got great, other actors, supporting actors coming in, it's just, yeah, it's lovely.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: And the reception to the show has been incredible. Like, it's critically acclaimed, five-star reviews, and also, you know, the audience have loved it too and been sharing it. What's it like to be in a show that's so loved?听听

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NANCY听SULLIVAN: I think it's... It's lovely! Really great! No, but I think what's lovely about it is that it reaches every age. So you've got people who, like, grandparents kind of watching it with their grandkids and their grandkids enjoying it as much as the grandparents and all wanting to binge it together. So it's a really, like, universal, and any age it kind of really speaks to, especially the older people with the '80s, it's like so reminiscent to go back on those times, and the kids love all the moments of Alan at school. So I think it just reaches everyone, which is part of its success, really.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: Yeah, and it's like a really upbeat show. Even though there are emotional moments, it's lovely. You know, we need a little bit of upbeatness at the moment. So it's, it was really enjoyable, even though I'd read some of the scripts, it was really enjoyable for me to watch it. Have you watched it back or do you not like watching yourself?听听

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NANCY听SULLIVAN: I have watched it back. Yeah, I've watched it... I watched it once with kind of my eyes over my... Hands over my eyes thinking, "Oh, is it any good?" You know, and then I watched it, you know, without a critical head on and just watched it and really enjoyed it. Yeah. It is, I think it's, what's lovely about it is it is... I mean, it's got so much heart to it with Alan's story, but it is just really funny. And a lot of the comedies I find now you have to get into them a bit or you have to sit with it for a bit before you're laughing. But actually, I think the language of the show hits you quite quickly with Changing Ends and, yeah, it's just a good laugh.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: It's such a good laugh. And is it... Did you know before? I know actors are asked this a lot and I'm an actor myself, but I feel like I've been in shows before that I didn't sort of know it was going to be a success. Like, maybe it's big budget. You know, I was in the first series of The Crown, again playing a small part. But we didn't know it was going to be The Crown then because it was the first series. You know it's got a big budget, but was there an idea on set that this was going to be, like, a really funny show that people were going to identify with? Or were you just like having a nice time and doing your job?听

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NANCY听SULLIVAN: Yeah, it's a really good question. No, there wasn't any concept of how it might be received, to be honest. We were just doing the work. But we was laughing a lot at the script, as like when we were in the make-up trailer getting ready, me and Gabby, who plays Anne, the neighbour, who's brilliant. And with you ladies with book club, you know, like there was an element of just laughing before you'd even got to film it. So that's always a good sign. And that was really similar when I did After Life as well, you know, we had a laugh before we filmed the scene, so I think that's a good sign. But I don't think you know. I don't, I don't think you can know how something's going to be received.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: And it's great because you've done a lot of theatre as well as听TV. And I remember, I don't know if this is inside information that I'm not meant to be sharing on the radio, but I remember the wrap party, which was karaoke, and you belting out some tunes. I was like, "Nancy, hello!" What's it like going from theatre to TV and do听you have to change your style?听听

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NANCY听SULLIVAN: I think you have to change your level as opposed to your style. I think the style and the truth of the character or how you'd like to say the line stays the same, but I think the level of intensity maybe ramps up a bit with theatre. But that's what's really lovely about Changing Ends because there's some scenes in that, I remember saying to the director, "Oh, is this a bit much?" Like, she has a moment where she's on the driveway just thrilled that Alan's got a girlfriend and she's kind of a bit deranged, and I'm just saying to the director, "Oh, is it a bit much?" And Alan was like, "Oh, my God, you look deranged, but it's brilliant!" So because Alan is quite theatrical, there's quite a lot of theatrical moments in Changing Ends, physical comedy-wise, which are lovely to play. Um, but, yeah, the karaoke night, well, that was like my musical theatre bones coming out.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: I think I did a rock number. I don't have musical theatre bones, so there we go. I subjected everyone to that. So what, what do you think will be your favourite memory from the filming process? Because my, my favourite memory is definitely the book club and just sitting there and having to react to a semi-naked actor in the room.听听

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NANCY听SULLIVAN: Yeah. My favourite moment... I actually think it is... It's the lovely bits with little Alan, with little Olly, actually, which, you know, I wish there was even more of where you see his relationship with his mum. Because they're just so warming to play and you just can't help but totally, when you're playing his mum, totally be in love with little Alan. So, yeah, they were probably my loveliest moments to play. Even though some of those we had to have an assistant director stand in for him, because of the hours he was doing were quite limited for what he could do sometimes. So he had to be broken for tuition and then I'd sometimes do the scene and rehearse it with, you know, not Olly, but when I did get to do it with him, it was just so lovely, such a treat.听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: I mean, he's fabulous, isn't he? He's... He's a future star, definitely.听

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NANCY听SULLIVAN: And he's nothing like that in real life either. Like, you might think, oh, he's got Alanisms in real life, but he really hasn't at all. He's... He's quite the opposite.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: Well, I loved watching it. As I said, I play a very little part in it. Nancy Sullivan plays Alan Carr's mum. It's a joy. I loved watching you, especially after I met you and worked with you as well. So thank you so much for joining me.听听

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NANCY听SULLIVAN: Thank you, Sam, and you're absolutely brilliant in it. So, yeah, people should watch your episode to see you in the book club. You're brilliant.听听

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SAMANTHA听BAINES: Thanks, babe. It's episode four. So you can check out Changing Ends. It's a brand-new autobiographical comedy for听ITVX, starring Alan Carr and my guest Nancy Sullivan. Well, what a show we've had. Hasn't it been glorious? Thank you so much for all your brilliant messages that you've sent in, your tweets. It's been lovely to hear from you. Thank you so much to all my brilliant guests. We just heard from Nancy Sullivan, we, of course, had Rose Ayling-Ellis, we had Kelly Sweeney at the beginning of the show, Jay Mailer from A Midsummer Night's Dream, Michelin star chef Tommy Banks. We also had Clare Finney talking about her new book. Poppy Delbridge did some tapping with us. We had Anjana Vasan from Black Mirror, also Olivier Award-winning plays, and we also had Cerrie Burnell. And did I mention the wonderful Rose Ayling-Ellis?

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I loved chatting to her as well. Thank you so much for joining me. Thank you to Tom, who's been in the studio with me. Thank you to the lovely producers Theo and Anna. It's been a joy and Gaby will be back, don't you worry. But it's been lovely standing in for her.听听

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