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 This is a full transcript of 'We're all a bit wonky' as first broadcast on 9 April 2020 as part of the Isolation Diaries strand presented by Kate Monaghan KATE - Hello and welcome to Isolation Diaries, the weekly virtual diary, I guess, that I've been doing for the Ouch Cabin Fever podcast. I've got Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome, a chronic pain condition that affects all my joints, so I use a wheelchair. And my wife, Holly, is on immune-suppressants as she had a kidney transplant about 11 years ago. So, as Holly is in that lovely high-risk category we've been self-isolating for four weeks now, long, long weeks. I'll be totally honest, as ever, I've really not found this week that easy. Well, I mean I don't expect anyone is finding it easy, are they? Are you? Tell me your tips if you are. But I've just been feeling so frustrated, not just for me but for me as well, but probably more so for my three year-old daughter, Scout. The main thing this week has not just been keeping her entertained, educated and safe, which are all a struggle at the best of times, but she's really picking up on the anxiety in the household at the moment, and I constantly feel guilty and am questioning if I'm doing any of this right. Are we getting it right? Are we getting it wrong? Are we causing problems for her later? Are we…? Do you know, I don't even know. Are any of us doing it right? Who knows? Anyway this week my recording equipment as ever has never left my side as I've tried to be the best wife, citizen, friend and mother I can be. It's not easy but at least I'm honest.  [Music] Scout has really been missing her friends recently, so what we decided to do was take the advice from about a million people on the internet and we set up a Skype date, actually it was a Zoom date, or was it a Google Hangouts date - I don't even know, one of those - a kind of interactive date with her best friends. And we coordinated times; one of them is in America at the moment so we had to do afternoon our time so that we could get the morning their time. And we thought we'd get all the kids together and then each take turns in reading them a story, which is great. So, yeah, here's how it worked for us. [Music]RECORDING - Do you want to sit on my knee so you can hear it? Rara's wearing a pirate hat?WILL - Do you guys fancy a bit of a story? ALL - Yeah!WILL - If you want you can mute your microphones and then it won't interrupt the story. KATE - How do we mute?FEMALE - How do we mute, Will?FEMALE - Oh no wait!KATE - Oh, these things always go so well, don't they? EM - Can't work it out.FEMALE - Em, if you touch your face at the very top so then the mute button will come up.KATE - There are 14 of us.FEMALE - Touch your face at the top and then a mute option will come up on the left.KATE - All for a story with your friends. Right, I think has everyone…? Oh, we haven't muted anyone so it's made no difference. WILL - Right, okay, here we go, we're going to get started then. This story's called Down By the Cool of the Pool. KATE - [Music] It did take a while for us all to get linked up. Oh my gosh, trying to overcome the technology hurdles, am I alone in this? It seems like half the time is spent with trying to connect with each other. Anyway Scout is just desperate to read her own stories to the others, and also she just wants to show everyone whatever she's been playing with that day. She walks around the house with my laptop just showing people things, and I just spend the whole time thinking oh no, you're going to drop it, please don't. And also nobody is interested in seeing toy kittens for the 30th time. No offence Scout but, you know. [Music] Right, I just need to get something off my chest because I am, I don't know, annoyed or sad or, I don't know what I am, but I'm something. And it's this whole thing about people talking about people with underlying health conditions when they're looking at the people who've died from corona. And I understand it, I absolutely…look, I get it: for the majority of people you want to think that this isn't going to affect you and you think, oh well if a 30 year-old's got it, but have they got underlying health conditions; it feels like that's always the first question that gets asked. I found out today that a five year-old had died, and the first thing that people were commenting on the story was, did they have underlying health conditions. Does it matter if they have underlying health conditions really? Come on, these are children, these are your family, these could be your sister or your brother or anything. It shouldn't matter whether they have underlying health conditions. I know it makes people feel better that there might have been something wrong with them in the first place, but look at Holly - and I'm just saying this from my own personal experience, all I've got to go off is my wife, or even me, like they'd say, well she did have underlying health conditions about me - Holly is, she won't appreciate me saying, a 35 year-old who has kidney disease but she is well; she's so much more well than me. Her day-to-day life is the same as anybody else's. Just because she had to have a kidney transplant and stuff it doesn't mean her life is less than anybody else's, it doesn't mean that she… Oh sorry, I'm cross so I can't get my words out properly, and I'm throwing a nappy in the bin at the same time. It doesn't mean that her death is more okay. Like for some reason saying that people who had underlying health conditions is making it more okay for them to have died. And like I said, I get it, I understand that it's easier for us to put somebody's death into perspective if they have something else going on, and it stops maybe some of the fear about it. But it doesn't. We have to realise that a life is a life and a person is a person and nobody's death should be taken to mean less than somebody else's just because they've got something else going on in their body. I mean, how many of us does that include? How many of us have got something that's a little bit wrong? Surely not everyone is totally healthy, active and healthy. We're all a bit wonky somehow. Don't let that first question you ask be, "Have they got underlying health conditions?" Don't let it feel better just because they've got underlying health conditions. [Cat meows] Yes I know, Milo, okay you want a drink; I'll turn the tap on and you can have a drink. I mean, Milo is an ancient cat. How old are you, Milo? He must be 17 now. You'll be 17 and I'll be no less sad if you died than if Ralph or Felix, who are more like five, died; that would make no difference to me. All I would say is you had a longer, happier life. Well, longer life, not necessarily happier; well actually I think you are a pretty happy cat, to be fair. You had a longer life, Milo, and that's all you'd have going for you other than the others. Yes, I am comparing. I'm going a bit daft. I'm drawing a comparison I suppose in how I look at death. And we shouldn't be allowed to think that anyone else's death is less because of it.  [Sighs] This is really hitting disabled people harder, and I think we're starting to understand and see more of that now. And I think it's going to be a really hard few weeks now for people in the disability community, and it does make me scared.  [Music] It's that time of the week: it's time for isolation issues, issues, issues. HOLLY - I didn't think this was actually going to be a returning thing. KATE - Why? It's such a great feature. You've got to give the people what they want, and they want the isolation issues. HOLLY - Who's actually said they want this?KATE - So many people. HOLLY - Really? KATE - Yeah, loads of people, and loving it. HOLLY - You didn't even warn me. I need to think of my things. KATE - Ah you see you haven't got any this time. HOLLY - Well, I had three last week, so.KATE - So, you can not have any; you can just think I've been perfect. HOLLY - Oh no, I've thought of one. KATE - Oh no.HOLLY - That only took four seconds. KATE - Go on then. HOLLY - No, you go first, it's your game. KATE - But I've got so many; I don't know which to pick and choose from.HOLLY - Well, now's your chance.KATE - Okay. My issue with you this week is when I do something with Scout and then if I take her outside and play with her for like an hour, then I'll come back in and I'll sit down and then you'll be like, oh can I just have five minutes to myself to do some drawing. HOLLY - Oh god! I said that today because I'd been cleaning the kitchen. And also…KATE - That took you two seconds!HOLLY - No, it really didn't. And also it's not my fault that I can't go out on a lovely dog walk into a nice meadow, and feed the ducks.KATE - Yeah, we went and fed the ducks.HOLLY - And it looked really idyllic, and you sent me photos, and I felt left out and sad. KATE - Ah!HOLLY - Yeah. KATE - Poor baby. HOLLY - Yeah. KATE - But also you have an hour and a half to yourself because I was entertaining the child. HOLLY - No, I was cleaning the house; that's the point. KATE - You weren't cleaning the house. HOLLY - I did. I was cleaning and then I did some gardening and then I did some work. KATE - You chose that time to do that.HOLLY - Yeah, I did actually.KATE - And then I come home and you go, "Oh I need five minutes for drawing".HOLLY - No, I just…KATE - I mean, I'm just like dude, you've had ages all by yourself and then all…HOLLY - Can we move on to your thing now?KATE - No. [Laughter] So, that is my issue.HOLLY - But, you know, got it recorded now that I can just chill…KATE - No, that's not 100% right what I said. HOLLY - …when you're out.KATE - No, I didn't. Hm, let's backtrack that. HOLLY - Go on then. KATE - I've been the perfect model of a wife and mother this last week, so I cannot imagine you have anything to say at all.HOLLY - I even mentioned it to you today. KATE - What was it? HOLLY - Can you think what I'm going to say? KATE - Harry Potter Lego. [Laughter] I bought you the Lego, the Hogwarts castle for an anniversary present almost two years ago, okay, and you've been building it ever since. And all around the house are these Harry Potter Lego bags and no one's allowed to touch it. And if Scout even breathes on it you're like, "No, no!" panicking. I'll just let Scout loose on it. HOLLY - No don't.KATE - Flipping Lego. Poor Scout. HOLLY - I know. KATE - She's having a tough time, isn't she?HOLLY - Yeah. KATE - Do you think she is having a tough time with this now? HOLLY - I think sometimes yeah, because she's a bit more tearful, isn't she?KATE - Yeah, she's been bursting into tears at the drop of a hat. HOLLY - And she never really cries, does she?KATE - No, she's not one to tantrum, she's not one to cry that much. HOLLY - No, she never cries.KATE - And we've had now maybe three tearful moments today. HOLLY - Over nothing much.KATE - Yeah, nothing. I think she's missing her friends; I think she's finding that really hard. HOLLY - Yeah, and the lack of routine. Well, lack of normal routine, I guess. KATE - Normal routine, because she's got a routine. HOLLY - Pre-school. KATE - It's just different to what it was. But yeah I feel like you and I keep swinging between thinking we're, like one of us thinks we're being too cautious and the other one thinks we're not being cautious enough, and we sort of swap roles with it, don't we?HOLLY - Yeah definitely. KATE - Oh I don't know. Where do you feel you're sitting at the moment? HOLLY - I feel like we've got a tiny bit more relaxed over the past couple of days, because Scout had a socially distanced play date, didn't she, which was great. KATE - Just to be clear, it was playing outside in the road, not like in the road…HOLLY - On a cul-de-sac.KATE - …on a cul-de-sac with a friend and they kept two metres away from each other. HOLLY - They were more than two metres away from each other, but still it felt like it was a step;KATE - Well, it felt like it was okay, and it made her so much happier and so much easier to deal with that day, behaviour wise and everything. And then now…HOLLY - But one of her best friend's mum's a nurse and is working in A&E.KATE - We just were like, hold on a second, have we been silly.HOLLY - It's not like they touched or anything, but it could lead to that; it could be getting more and more lax and then suddenly you turn around and, you know, I don't know; it's just weird.KATE - They were really good, they were so good, they knew to keep away from each other, but when they were running around you can't guarantee that they're totally two metres away. And if you read the government guidance it is that they shouldn't be doing it. HOLLY - No. KATE - It's so hard. Sometimes I think oh, we're doing well, and then I just have a moment of anxiety and I think, no we've risked it too much. HOLLY - Yeah, I think once you bend or break one rule you'll bend another and another and another and justify things in your head, like oh it's fine, they're only kids, or whatever, they were only together for half an hour. But it's not fine and things like that I think someone will end up getting ill. Even though we're on week four we've got to keep reminding ourselves again and again things are worse than they were four weeks ago, so we need to keep on washing our hands just as much, me not going out. KATE - I know it sounds awful but I can't be bothered to pick up stuff that's from outside now. Like an Amazon order came, and I think it's probably still on the step outside because all I could think about was, I'm just going to have to disinfect everything. And then I think if I think too much about where the bugs could be I'd be stripping off and showering every time something came into the house. HOLLY - Ironically the Amazon parcel is of cleaning products. KATE - Yeah, it's not like it's something…HOLLY - If someone tries to pinch it they will be very disappointed. KATE - Or very happy as they could sell it on the black market for a huge amount of money nowadays. HOLLY - True. KATE - I find myself thinking it's fine, everything is great, I'm really happy, and then all of a sudden I think oh god. I think it's when I hear news or look at the news I suddenly think, oh what have I done, why did I take that risk. Like we had takeaway on…HOLLY - Saturday night. KATE - …Saturday night, yeah, as a way of trying to delineate between weekends and week days. HOLLY - Giving ourselves a treat. We were watching a movie and that kind of thing.KATE - Yeah, we were like, right, let's have a treat. And then we ate it and we were like, should we be eating takeaway, is that okay.HOLLY - Yeah, I literally don't even know. KATE - I don't know either. HOLLY - No one has really said anything about it. But some takeaway restaurants are operating so. KATE - So, you'd think it would be okay.HOLLY - Yeah. KATE - But again the food comes in and then am I being safe enough with how much I'm wiping everything down before it comes to you? HOLLY - I hope so. KATE - I hope so but I don't know for sure. HOLLY - I don't know. You are definitely more lax about it than you were a week ago this week.KATE - Yeah, so now…HOLLY - But we need to keep reminding ourselves that we can't be like that. KATE - No.HOLLY - You just wanted that onion bhaji.KATE - I really did. I was so hungry; I just really wanted to eat. HOLLY - They were good.KATE - They were really good. And if you did get ill this is the stuff that I would replay in my head over and over again. HOLLY - Yeah, you'd blame yourself totally. Awful.KATE - Yeah, so much, so much. I don't know. It's really difficult, isn't it?HOLLY - Yeah, it really is. KATE - And you've had a bit of a down day, haven't you?HOLLY - Yeah. I don't know, I felt like it had to keep really busy with whether it was cleaning or tidying or something, playing with Scout or whatever, because otherwise if I sat down I just felt like, I don't know, a bit nothingy. I'm exhausting all my hobbies, and at some point things are going to get boring, aren't they? KATE - At some point? Because they haven't already?HOLLY - Well, I think having a child helps alleviate boredom, doesn't it? KATE - Hm. HOLLY - Even if it does increase stress. KATE - [Music] Like most three year-olds Scout is obsessed with the Disney film Frozen, and basically only Frozen. We spend our life trying to get her to watch other films, and especially play other games, but we always come back to Frozen. And this week alone I think we've probably played some version of Frozen four or five times every single day. They usually end up with me having to lie asleep, which I love, being Anna while Scout plays Elsa running at night time, running away and trying to follow the voice that's in Frozen 2. I mean, if you haven't watched it you're in for a treat, it's a great film, have a watch. But yeah, after the millionth time this just all gets a bit wearing. SCOUT - [Music] You're Elsa. Actually I'm Elsa now. KATE - Okay. SCOUT - And you're…KATE - Who am I?SCOUT - Anna.KATE - Okay. SCOUT - Your cuddle around me. KATE - Okay, I'll cuddle round you. And what are you going to do?SCOUT - I can't tell you. KATE - Oh, okay.SCOUT - Close your eyes. I hear somebody coming. KATE - Who's coming? Who's coming? SCOUT - I'm under a duvet. KATE - Okay, Elsa. Where's Olaf?SCOUT - We haven't built him yet.KATE - Oh, we haven't built him yet, okay fair dos. SCOUT - It's a snowman. Do you want to build a snowman? KATE - It's Thursday night and therefore we are off to clap outside, although we might even be a little bit late for it. Oh, there we go. [Clapping] And some fireworks. HOLLY - Thank you NHS! [Clapping, whistling and horns honking] Hi guys! HOLLY - Is that our blue bin?KATE - That's our blue bin, yeah. HOLLY - Why's it out there? KATE - It's funny because you haven't been out here for so long we're just looking, peering out the door. HOLLY - We need bells; the bells are a good call.KATE - Okay, we need more next time. HOLLY - I think we should sit in the car. Come on Milo.KATE - Why would we sit in the car? Oh to be warm.HOLLY - [Horns honking] To do that.KATE - Oh, yeah, but it will wake Scout up. Okay, she hasn't woken up, that's good. HOLLY - How do you know?KATE - Well, she'd be crying if she had. HOLLY - Is this it?KATE - No, we're all good; phew. I do actually like doing that; it makes you kind of feel a bit connected to people, doesn't it? HOLLY - Yeah. KATE - In a time when there is very little connection. HOLLY - Yeah exactly. You get to see some of the neighbours coming out of their houses clapping in their pyjamas. KATE - I think it was just us in our pyjamas, wasn't it?HOLLY - Oh. Was it? [Laughter]KATE - I think everybody else was fully clothed. HOLLY - It was very moving, and I think it was a bigger turnout than last week and that's quite interesting. Maybe people are understanding more, appreciating it more, seeing the strain the NHS is under. I kind of wish they'd do a daytime one as well so we could involve the kids, because it's important for them to know what we're doing. KATE - Yeah, that's a really good idea. Maybe we should start our own one. HOLLY - Yeah. You could hear it miles away, couldn't you? KATE - Yeah. I think it would be nice for the kids to listen and understand it a bit more. But I wouldn't keep Scout up especially because then she's be a pain. HOLLY - No, I was going to say, she'd be a mess tomorrow. KATE - Yeah. [Music] Each week I've been asking for you guys to get in touch with any advice you might have on surviving this difficult time, and I've been really touched by all your lovely emails. I really do read every single one. Thank you so much. Liz Teasdale got in touch and she told me that she's also been getting the hospital text, having had a kidney transplant herself, and she told me that there was a text about having a hospital bag packed and ready. And do you know what, Holly hasn't told me about that text; she hasn't told me that that is what they're advising her to do. Because I've said to Holly that she should have a hospital bag packed, and she hasn't wanted to engage with it. And now she's obviously had that text and decided not to tell me about it. Very interesting, Liz. I might force her to do that next week, or in fact I might just pack one for her because I'm so worried about what will happen if she or I go downhill really quickly what we'll do. So, yeah maybe I'm going to make her do that now that I know that it's government mandated advice. But Liz also had some advice for us with Scout as well. She says: in case it's helpful, Scout may be too young for this, but my daughter used to love playing a guessing game where you take it in turns to blindfold or close your eyes while the other person brings household objects for you to feel, smell and guess what they are. She could play that for quite a long time, and it was quite entertaining for me also. Right okay. Ooh, and hide and seek where teddies get hidden rather than people can be fun too. Easier to find good places and save me trying to fit under the bed. Yes, that would be great because Scout is desperate to play hide and seek all the time, and there is only so much hiding, and indeed seeking, that one can do. Right okay, I'm going to do these over the next couple of days and I'll come back to you next week when we know how they get on, and let's see whether we can make this work. Some good ideas. [Music] It's really helped being able to share my experiences with you. Thank you so much for listening. And honestly, please get in touch if you're feeling frustrated or finding something particularly hard. I really do enjoy reading a good rant. Email my producer Amy, amy.elizabeth@bbc.co.uk. Or even if you have tips like Liz did please send them in. Anyway I'm off now to play Frozen for the fifth time today I think. Wish me luck. [Music]