Â鶹ԼÅÄ

Downloaded from www.bbc.co.uk/radio4

Ìý

THE ATTACHED TRANSCRIPT WAS TYPED FROM A RECORDING AND NOT COPIED FROM AN ORIGINAL SCRIPT.Ìý BECAUSE OF THE RISK OF MISHEARING AND THE DIFFICULTY IN SOME CASES OF IDENTIFYING INDIVIDUAL SPEAKERS, THE Â鶹ԼÅÄ CANNOT VOUCH FOR ITS COMPLETE ACCURACY.

Ìý

Ìý

IN TOUCH – Audio Description: New Ofcom Guidelines & Application in the Theatre

TX:Ìý 16.04.2024Ìý 2040-2100

PRESENTER:Ìý ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý PETER WHITE

Ìý

PRODUCER:ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý BETH HEMMINGS

Ìý

Ìý

Ìý

White

Good evening.Ìý Tonight, it’s something of an audio description special.Ìý Later on, we’re going to be looking at the theatre company which has given audio description a central role in one of its productions.

Ìý

Clip – Audio description

On scooters and bicycles with shining headlights, oh I know this lad, it’s those pesky mechanicals again.Ìý Flute, the bellows-mender is on rather a large bicycle with enormous headlights.Ìý Do you think maybe he’s compensating for something?

Ìý

White

But first, while the use of AD commentary to support visual content can now be found widely all over the place – in museums, stately homes, art exhibitions, cinemas of course – one of its major roles has been to help visually impaired people follow what’s happening on the telly.Ìý There’s no doubt that for many people it’s considerably enhanced the ability to enjoy TV programmes but we also know, from your comments to us, that it’s not always implemented as well as it could be by the major channels.Ìý We get complaints, for instance, about erratic use on popular series – AD appearing either late or disappearing altogether in the middle – and, of course, then there’s the issue of how much content is actually audio described.

Ìý

Well, Ofcom, the communications regulator, has just produced the latest of its guidance to TV and streaming providers about what they should be doing.Ìý I’m joined by Helen Shaw of Ofcom’s content policy team.

Ìý

First of all, Helen, before we talk about what the new report actually says and your recommendations, can we just clarify Ofcom’s role and powers.Ìý As a regulator, what can you do and what can’t you do?

Ìý

Shaw

We’re responsible for enforcing the legal requirements on broadcasters to provide audio description.Ìý The target for broadcasters is to audio describe 10% of their programmes.Ìý So, we’re responsible for enforcing that.Ìý In practice, many broadcasters do go beyond the 10% and there aren’t yet legal requirements for video-on-demand providers, so providers like ITVX or NOW or Amazon Prime Video but there is a bill going through parliament, at the moment, called the Media Bill, that is going to introduce similar requirements for on-demand services.Ìý These best practice guidelines, that we’ve published today, they are more focused on how broadcasters make sure their access services are high quality and easy to use.

Ìý

White

Okay, we’ll come back to the Media Bill that’s going through.Ìý But on the issue of the recommendations, I mean what are your main recommendations now?

Ìý

Shaw

So, we’ve made three main changes to our guidelines.Ìý Firstly, we’ve expanded them to cover on-demand accessibility and to include new advice for on-demand providers on things like offering customisation options where possible, which could be increasing the size of subtitles for people that have sight loss or hearing loss and we’ve also introduced new guidance on making audio description easier to find on on-demand services, as we know, from our research, that that can be difficult.Ìý And then, secondly, we now want providers to think about accessibility right from the start of making programmes and that could include integrating descriptions of information into programmes that don’t have audio description, so programmes like quiz shows.Ìý For example, if a presenter reads out the on-screen text as it appears on screen, which could be, for example, how much money someone has won, then that could really make the difference to whether that programme is accessible to someone with sight loss.

Ìý

White

What about the issue of what proportion of programmes are audio described in the first place?Ìý I mean, you’ve mentioned the 10% figure, a lot of visually impaired people think that that’s woefully low.

Ìý

Shaw

So, the 10% target for broadcast television is set out in legislation.Ìý So, ultimately, it’s a matter for government.Ìý But we do, absolutely, encourage broadcasters to see that as a bare minimum requirement and go beyond it wherever possible.Ìý In practice, many broadcasters are exceeding that target.Ìý So, the Â鶹ԼÅÄ, ITV, Channel 4 and Sky, have all voluntarily committed to audio describe at least 20% of their programmes.Ìý In practice, many broadcasters go even beyond that.Ìý So, Channel 4 now audio describes over 50% of its programmes on its main channel.

Ìý

White

So, I mean, is there any chance of getting more equity for people who ask the question, well if Channel 4 can do 50% why can’t the Â鶹ԼÅÄ, why can’t Sky?

Ìý

Shaw

We do encourage broadcasters to progressively increase the accessibility of their services but we do understand that it does take time and it’s not always straightforward but I do hope that when the Media Bill comes into place then your listeners will notice a difference in the accessibility of on-demand services.

Ìý

White

Yeah, I’m going to bring in our other guest in a moment but just because you’ve raised the Media Bill, which is currently being debated in parliament, what effect do you think that will have when it becomes law because I’ve looked at a number of the recommendations that it makes, one thing that immediately strikes you that quite a lot of them are going to take quite a long time to come into effect, you know, two years, three years in some cases?

Ìý

Shaw

Yeah, so, I do think the targets do sort of ramp up over a couple of years, you’re right, to give providers enough time to get their provision up to scratch but what I would say is that providers are aware of these rules coming in and so they are already starting to prepare for that.Ìý But what I would hope your listeners would notice is a more consistent experience in accessibility.Ìý So, at the moment, audiences can find a programme might be accessible on a website but not on a mobile app but the Media Bill should, hopefully, mean that programmes are audio described across the different platforms and devices that on-demand programmes are available on.

Ìý

White

Well, listening to that is Robin Spinks, Robin’s the RNIB Head of Inclusive Design and a keen user of audio description.Ìý Robin, I know you haven’t had all that long to look at this but first impressions of Ofcom’s report?

Ìý

Spinks

We’re very encouraged and it’s a really good point about the world has changed, people are consuming media on all sorts of different devices and listening to podcasts on a watch, for example.Ìý Who’d have dreamt that five years ago, let alone 10.Ìý So, the world is changing and I think what we really need to do here is rather than specifically thinking about targets, let’s think about the holistic experience – how can we get better content that is actually description led, so it’s actually woven into the narrative of shows and plays and documentaries even.Ìý I think this is critical.

Ìý

White

So, you mean part of the production process, is what you’re saying.

Ìý

Spinks

Absolutely.

Ìý

White

I mean you raise the issue of how quickly things are happening, we’ve got this act now, it succeeds an act which was passed in 2003 and yet we’ve already talked, Helen and I, about the amount of time some of these things will take coming into effect.Ìý The worry is that progress will run way ahead of the legislation.

Ìý

Spinks

I mean we’d absolutely love to see more audio description tomorrow but I think the challenge is about dealing with what is a patchy and inconsistent and unreliable experience across the board.Ìý You know, the target’s the minimum threshold, now it’s about going beyond audio description and using as many techniques as possible.Ìý We’ve seen some great progress this year – the King’s Coronation, for example:

Ìý

Clip – King’s Coronation audio description

The gold state coach, dazzling coach drenched in gold leaf, supported by four wheels with ornate golden spokes.Ìý Painted door panels depicting Roman gods and goddesses.

Ìý

Spinks

And the Six Nations enhanced commentary, Strictly:

Ìý

Clip – Strictly Come Dancing audio description

In a blue and white striped top with a ruffled red skirt, Nancy is holding a telescope as she dances and cartwheels her way over to Les on the stage.Ìý She grasps his hands and they start to samba.Ìý

Ìý

Spinks

These are all firsts in terms of audio description coming to the fore and making it better for everybody.Ìý And we’re working with creatives, we’re also working with that whole industry that build creative content to thoughtfully get people to do more and get people to think about it in a more holistic way at the outset.Ìý And just imagine that, you know, the people around you could be one of the 250 people who are told each day that nothing else can be done to improve your vision or you’re going to lose your sight, just put yourself in that position and imagine how you would go about creating content.

Ìý

White

Just finally Helen, what happens now, I mean how do you think the TV and streaming platforms will respond to your guidance?

Ìý

Shaw

I think they will take our guidance seriously.Ìý One thing that we are also setting up today, is a new ongoing working group where we want to bring together on-demand providers, broadcasters and charities, like the RNIB, so that charities and audiences can feed back on how they think the guidelines are working and where they still want things to be improved.Ìý So, these guidelines are really the start of ongoing conversations about how to continue to improve accessibility.

Ìý

White

Helen Shaw, Robin Spinks, thank you both very much indeed.

Ìý

Well, we stay with AD but move to blind and partially sighted theatre goers, who often complain that they’re effectively excluded from productions they’d like to go to because if audio description is provided at all it’s just for one or two shows in the run and even then at inconvenient times.Ìý But could all that be about to change?Ìý Well, the Royal Shakespeare theatre’s production of a Midsummer Night’s Dream might give us a glimpse into the future.Ìý In this production, every performance, included, what’s being called, ‘creative audio description’.Ìý And it’s not just greater availability which sets it apart, as our reporter, Fern Lulham found out.

Ìý

Lulham

Well, we’ve arrived at the Royal Shakespeare Company.Ìý I’ve been reliably informed that there are lots of school kids in tonight, so, hope everyone behaves themselves.Ìý Anything could happen.

Ìý

One thing I knew for sure would be happening was that this production of A Midsummer Night’s Dream offered creative audio description.Ìý I wanted to know what that entailed.Ìý So, I tracked down the creative programme developer for access and inclusion at the Royal Shakespeare Company, Josephine Hunter McKinnon, to get to the bottom of it.

Ìý

McKinnon

Creative audio description is delivered by the company off stage as their characters.Ìý And there’s also, it’s worth mentioning, little nuggets of the script that have been changed on stage to allow for audio integration.Ìý Shakespeare’s plays already have a lot of audio description in a way, in the script, you know, ‘I bite my thumb at you’ and when someone draws a sword it’s always mentioned that someone’s drawing a sword.

Ìý

Lulham

So, even in William Shakespeare’s day he was already considering us?

Ìý

McKinnon

Yeah.Ìý He always writes the stage directions into the script, most of the time, yeah.

Ìý

Lulham

And I’ve heard that there’s also soundscapes as part of the audio description.

Ìý

McKinnon

Yes, every time you hear the fairies, they have a wonderful soundscape going on, so you begin to recognise those kinds of things as you go along.Ìý And we’ve also got creative audio notes which are normally read by the audio describer but this time they are read by members of the company, so they’re describing themselves and what their character looks like.Ìý Audio description, especially in its traditional format, is definitely seen as an add-on but making it just creative and making it part of the production and making it appeal, a bit more like a bonus, like the DVD extras I suppose you used to get, it definitely gives it more of an appeal.Ìý It’s for everybody in a way, it shouldn’t necessarily be so narrowly targeted.

Ìý

Lulham

Well, if it was down to the actors to deliver the audio description, I thought I’d better speak to one of them about it and luckily I had time, just before the show was about to begin.

Ìý

Hough

My name is Esme Hough and I play Cobweb the fairy.Ìý It helps build more of a character, I’ve almost got more of an idea of what Cobweb is like and what her opinions are because I’ve been thinking about what she maybe thinks about the mechanicals or the lovers.Ìý It makes the shows feel quicker and more vibrant because you feel like you’re in them more and you kind of get this rare opportunity to feel like you’re a part of a scene that you’re not in.Ìý Immersive theatre is enormous at the moment and quite rightly and there is absolutely no reason that creative audio description doesn’t need to be an enormous part of that.

Ìý

Lulham

Obviously, you’re talking from Cobweb’s perspective, are you sort of commenting on the action as she would see it, how does that work?

Ìý

Hough

You really can pepper it with character opinions and character choices.Ìý Particularly Cobweb finds the mechanicals absolutely ridiculous, which is really nice to weave in to the description.Ìý And as you get more comfortable with it, you can add jokes in.

Ìý

Clip – A Midsummer Night’s Dream audio description

We’re deep in the forest now where my mistress Titania sleeps on her bower but who comes here on scooters and bicycles with shining headlights?Ìý Oh, I know this lot, it’s those pesky mechanicals again.Ìý Flute the bellows-mender is on rather a large bicycle with enormous headlights.Ìý Do you think maybe he’s compensating for something?Ìý Oh, and here’s Snug, the joiner, oh good, yeah, having a wee on a bush.Ìý

Ìý

Hough

There’s little bits in the show that I change every night and it’s really lovely because it feels like you kind of have this little conspiratorial conversation with a group of people that not everybody gets.Ìý Little details like at one point one of the mechanicals eats a biscuit and if you listen to the audio description you know it’s a pink wafer, it’s not just any biscuit.Ìý Or there’s just little choices that some actors make on some evenings and if you see it happen in the booth you can add it in because you know it’s there.Ìý It’s exciting and it’s not a box to be ticked or, you know, something to think about because we should.

Ìý

Lulham

Right, we’ve just found our seats.Ìý I have got my audio description headset at the ready.Ìý I’m looking forward to seeing if it’s an enhanced experience.

Ìý

Wilson

Together we can write an audio description that is in character, in fitting with the tone and the world of the show.Ìý Audio description then isn’t just about providing access, it’s about making sure that it’s providing the best possible experience to blind audiences.

Ìý

Lulham

Meet Ben Wilson, a blind performer and director of the creative audio description for this and many other productions.Ìý So, while past Fern sits back and enjoys the show, Ben can explain how the creative AD came to be.

Ìý

Wilson

I worked with a great experience sighted audio describer and with the cast and as a little team, as a unit, we created the audio description.Ìý The opening scene of the show is described by Quince, one of the great iconic characters of A Midsummer’s Night’s Dream.

Ìý

Clip – A Midsummer Night’s Dream audio description

The stage is vast, bare and charcoal grey but hundreds of orbs hang from the sky.Ìý They are alive with light and colour.Ìý At the moment, they are high above you but once we enter the forest they will float down to create the forest canopy and an eerie dreamscape.Ìý And that’s just the start of the magic and mischief.

Ìý

Wilson

And suddenly you have all the people around you, not wearing the audio description headsets, looking at you jealousy, going – what am I missing out on, I’m missing out on the fun.Ìý Often that’s the other way around, often as the blind person I’m the one who’s missing out on all the fun.Ìý I’ve been doing this for a number of years now with various theatres across the country.Ìý The ironic thing about audio description is that you can’t see it, it’s invisible, if you’re not the one wearing the headset you probably don’t know it’s happening.Ìý And so, it makes it easy to ignore and it’s easy for directors, writers and actors to pretend it’s not happening, feels quite insulting because I know, from working in the theatre industry, how much time and effort and work goes into every detail of the show.Ìý The theatre director would never say to their lighting designer – oh, do whatever you like, I don’t care – they’d never say to their actors – oh I don’t know how you perform that scene, do it however you like – but that’s what happens with audio description.Ìý And so, to work on a piece of theatre where you’re seeing these brilliantly talented people pouring their heart and soul and really working their socks off, it’s just a wonderful feeling.

Ìý

Lulham

I couldn’t help but wonder how making audio description more mainstream might be received, so I found two sighted audience members who had given it a go – Abigail and her mum, Alison.

Ìý

Alison

We’ve been sitting at the side, so the stage is quite long so it’s sometimes directed you to something that’s happening on the other part of the stage and we suddenly realised that you should be looking perhaps further over.Ìý It was also interesting to hear different characters…

Ìý

Abigail

Sarcastic comments.

Ìý

Alison

Yeah, about how they were behaving.

Ìý

Lulham

Has it made you think differently about it now that you’ve used it?

Ìý

Abigail

I think so, yeah, I mean I did say to mum in the interval that I was surprised, in a way, at how little that was actually used because I did worry a bit that it might start to dominate the actual performances.

Ìý

Alison

It was interesting to hear it, how it fitted in with what we were seeing, yes.

Ìý

Lulham

And here’s my verdict:Ìý Not only was it accessible but it was also very down to earth and so it was like having a friend next to you telling you what was going on but actually that friend was a character from the show.Ìý I also love this idea of accessibility being exciting and like a bonus for everyone and if that could be adopted in more areas of life, I just think we’d be on to a winner.

Ìý

Applause

Ìý

White

Fern Lulham reporting there and, of course, Fern is something of an audio describer herself.

Ìý

And that’s it for today.Ìý We’d like your reactions to this, wherever audio description is used, does it work for you and how could it be improved on TV, films and in the theatre or indeed anywhere else.Ìý You can email intouch@bbc.co.uk, leave voice messages on 0161 8361338 and you can go to our website bbc.co.uk/intouch.

Ìý

From me, Peter White and producer Beth Hemmings, goodbye.

Ìý

Ìý