Â鶹ԼÅÄ

Downloaded from www.bbc.co.uk/radio4

Ìý

THE ATTACHED TRANSCRIPT WAS TYPED FROM A RECORDING AND NOT COPIED FROM AN ORIGINAL SCRIPT.Ìý BECAUSE OF THE RISK OF MISHEARING AND THE DIFFICULTY IN SOME CASES OF IDENTIFYING INDIVIDUAL SPEAKERS, THE Â鶹ԼÅÄ CANNOT VOUCH FOR ITS COMPLETE ACCURACY.

Ìý

Ìý

IN TOUCH

TX:Ìý 26.12.2023Ìý 2040-2100

PRESENTER:Ìý ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý PETER WHITE

Ìý

PRODUCER:ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý BETH HEMMINGS

Ìý

Ìý

Ìý

Birdsong

Ìý

White

I’m in the village of Staveley, which is just north of Kendal, we’re in the south of the Lake District and I’ve come in search of the intriguingly named shop – the Blind Chocolatier.Ìý I think we’ve found it.Ìý Producer, Beth, what does it say on the… what does it say on the door?

Ìý

Hemmings

So, there’s a sign above the door, it says ‘The Blind Chocolatier – Hann-made chocolates’.

Ìý

White

Hanmade or handmade?

Ìý

Hemmings

Hann – h a double n, as in Stuart Hann.

Ìý

White

Right, we’d better go in, hadn’t we?

Ìý

Hammings

Better go and meet Stuart.

Ìý

Hann

Hiya.

Ìý

Hemmings

Hello.

Ìý

Hann

There’s a couple of steps down.

Ìý

White

Thank you very much.

Ìý

Hann

No problem.

Ìý

White

You must be Stuart?

Ìý

Hann

Yes, nice to meet you.

Ìý

White

Very nice to meet you.Ìý You’re a bit tucked away here, aren’t you?

Ìý

Hann

Yeah, there’s a few businesses about, though.

Ìý

White

I mean do people know you’re here?

Ìý

Hann

Yeah, you get people knowing I’m here and then you get also people that come on holiday – there’s the brewery and the bakery, so you get people that are coming to that and then come because of that.

Ìý

White

Yes because there’s a big cycle shop just across the road, isn’t there?

Ìý

Hann

Yeah, there’s a big cycle shop – cyclists don’t normally spend as much money but their wives do.

Ìý

White

Is that right?

Ìý

Hann

Yeah.

Ìý

White

Why are cyclists mean then?

Ìý

Hann

Oh because they’re spending 12 grand on a bike, so they don’t want to come and buy chocolates as well.

Ìý

White

I must ask you about the name of the shop because it’s the Blind Chocolatier, now a lot of people are quite keen to conceal their lack of sight for one reason and another, you’ve been pretty upfront about this, haven’t you?

Ìý

Hann

Yeah, well, originally, I wanted Lake District Chocolates but everything round here’s Lake District something and one of my friends said if you had The Blind Chocolatier most people will realise before… like if they come in and ask but you still get people going – you’re not blind and then you explain it because I don’t look like I’m blind and normally they feel bad and then buy something, so it works that way.Ìý I did think if I had a bakery, I’d just call it ‘Blind Baked’.Ìý There’s all sorts of different puns you could have off it.Ìý Like my surname’s Hann, so it started off as a joke in the pub but Hann-made, everyone looks at it and goes – have you just spelt it wrong – I say – I’m not very good at spelling but I can do my surname.

Ìý

White

It’s a good idea.Ìý We’re going to get you to perhaps talk us through the way you do the chocolate but, first of all, just describe the shop to me, what you’ve got here.

Ìý

Hann

Okay.Ìý So, I’ve got a little shop in Staveley Mill Yard and then when you come in there’s a counter, which has got all of my chocolates on, so I do different chocolate bars – white, milk and dark plain ones and then there’s different ones with flavours like ginger, cookies and cream, cherry, almond and pistachio.Ìý And then I do different chocolate bonbons, like one of the most popular’s dark chocolate and orange and I do like a milk chocolate hazelnut truffle, which is a bit like a Ferrero Rocher, but nicer.

Ìý

White

All this talk of chocolate is making me quite hungry, I must admit.

Ìý

Hann

Yeah, yeah, if you’ve not had breakfast you end up eating chocolate for breakfast.Ìý And then behind the counter there’s a bit of workspace for me and then behind there you can see the shop where I actually make the chocolates.Ìý So, I’ve got a small kitchen space.Ìý It’s a little bit small but you’ll never have enough kitchen space.

Ìý

Hemmings

Ooh it smells so good.

Ìý

White

Oh you can smell the chocolate now.

Ìý

Hann

Yeah in summer, because the door’s open in summer, people say they can smell it before they get to it.

Ìý

So, this is one of my tempering machines.Ìý It heats up the chocolate and it’s got a wheel that spins round, there’s a little spout that goes on top of it which pours the chocolate back down.Ìý The pipe can sometimes get chocolate stuck in it, so a handy little trick to fix it is just heat it up with a hairdryer, normally it fixes it.

Ìý

The newer way of tempering chocolate is you only need to melt the chocolate to 34 degrees, you’re just melting it to get all like the sugars and fats redissolved.Ìý It’s basically just a posh word for all the fat molecules and stuff being realigned.Ìý And if it’s not tempered properly, it won’t set or snap properly.

Ìý

So, with this little tempering machine, one of the most problems, which I’ve just done, is I can’t see all the little buttons and I’ve put it on a random setting.Ìý I’ve put it ridiculously hot for the chocolate and that’s when my phone comes in perfectly.Ìý I prefer it to a little handheld magnifier because the handheld magnifier takes ages to turn on and then you’ve got another thing to have in your pocket, when the phone cameras are better these days, so it’s easy for me to zoom in and out and just really for checking the screens and the ingredients.Ìý When I’m actually making the chocolates, I don’t need it as much because it’s all processes that I do all the time.Ìý But like for my recipes, I’ve got, basically, them all on an iPad, so I can zoom in for the recipes to make them bigger or smaller if I need.

Ìý

So, once the chocolate’s melted to 34 degrees and you put the cocoa butter into it, the chocolate’s ready to use because like the very old way is you put a quarter of the chocolate on a marble slab and agitate it but it’s a bit of showmanship really, no one has time to do that and technology’s moved on.

Ìý

White

But it’s quite precise, isn’t it?

Ìý

Hann

Yeah, like 0.2 of degrees difference you’ve got to start again.

Ìý

White

When you first started did you think – oh my god, there’s so much here for me to know – and with the sight problem – is it really going to be possible.Ìý Did you wonder that?

Ìý

Hann

A little bit but because I’d been a pastry chef for like 12, 13 years, I already knew quite a bit about chocolate.Ìý But then when I started working with it, I realised I didn’t know as much as I thought.Ìý I didn’t realise that the humidity would be as big an effect as it is with the chocolate work.Ìý Like with anything, you’ve got to make the mistakes to learn.

Ìý

White

I mean who knew really, us as we sort of bite into chocolate, you just don’t know all the stuff that goes into it.

Ìý

Hann

There’s a lot more goes into it than people think.Ìý Like I didn’t even know, if you’re making dark chocolate it takes four days to actually grind to be nice and smooth.Ìý And unless it’s a really hot day, it shouldn’t be kept in the fridge either because chocolate absorbs anything, so it’ll take the moisture, if it’s next to some cheese in the fridge your chocolate starts tasting and smelling of cheese and also it doesn’t taste as good in the fridge.

Ìý

White

So, all those people who are tucking into chocolate now over Christmas better bear in mind all the work that had to go into it in the first place.

Ìý

Hann

Yeah, there’s a lot of hours.Ìý So, the chocolate’s still a little bit too warm to add the cocoa butter to but you can just give it a bit of a stir to help it and make sure there’s no big lumps.Ìý And that’ll be a customer, I think.

Ìý

Customer

Hello.

Ìý

Hann

Hiya.

Ìý

Customer

I’ve never been before.

Ìý

Hann

No problem.

Ìý

Customer

It smells beautiful though in here.

Ìý

Hann

Cheers, thank you.

Ìý

Customer

Do you do like a little gift box?

Ìý

Hann

Yeah, so, I’ve got the second pricing down which are all the gift boxes.

Ìý

Customer

So, you make these all yourself?

Ìý

Hann

Yes, so… some of the chocolate and do all the flavours myself.

Ìý

Customer

How lovely.Ìý Could I definitely have two salted caramels please, she loves those, it’s for my daughter’s 30th.

Ìý

Hann

No problem, thank you.Ìý I’ve got a Bailey’s…

Ìý

Customer

Can I have a coffee please, that’s my favourite, so I will have that.

Ìý

Hann

Yeah, I always say if you’re unsure get ones that you like and then if they don’t like them, you can have them.Ìý So, did you just find us like passing through?

Ìý

Customer

Yes, I’m nipping for going getting some injections, going on holiday, so because I’m early I thought oh I’ll have a nosey round because I’ve not been to Staveley village.Ìý Thank you so much.Ìý Bye, bye.

Ìý

White

You’re very upfront with the name on the shop and everything that you’re blind, well, you’re not totally blind and we’ll talk about that but I’m just wondering how much help you need and what with in particular.

Ìý

Hann

Obviously, you’re not allowed to drive, so that used to be a bad thing but now it doesn’t bother me as much, apart from deliveries I’ve had.Ìý But I’ve got friends and family that help me and drop orders off for me.Ìý The till’s bigger and I’ve just got pictures instead of writing and it’s set out easily in a line.Ìý With reading the ingredients or labels I just use me phone.Ìý With the actual making of the stuff, it’s probably just paying a bit more attention, say, I cut the end of the piping bag off, it goes straight in the bin, not leave it on the edge or the board because it could get scraped up and go in the chocolate.Ìý I struggle a bit with money, like the 2ps and the 10ps and stuff because sometimes look the same but not that many people actually pay with cash anymore, it’s all card, which is good and bad but like they charge you just as much for putting cash in the bank these days anyway.

Ìý

I’m just scraping some of the excess cocoa butter off the chocolate moulds but the cocoa butter’s not wasted because I can put it back in the mould and use it again.Ìý But I tend to overspray them slightly because of my eyes, just so I know I’ve got all of the edges and stuff covered.

Ìý

White

I just wanted to ask you about the design part of the job.Ìý How much is that eye and how much is that hand really?

Ìý

Hann

So, I’ve still got to look at them all but some of them are solid ones, so like my strawberry fondant one is just like a solid red spray painted one but this time of year, I put of gold edible glitter in so it’s a bit more sparkly as well.Ìý I make all my designs different.Ìý It might be a different shape – like my mint one’s a diamond one, my cherry one’s a square one – so all of my chocolates look different so it makes the box look better and also, I know exactly which the chocolate is by looking at it, I don’t have to cut one open and test it, which you do anyway because you’ve got to test they’re alright or eat a broken one.Ìý Because even if you’re using the same brand, say the orange one, the same brand of orange puree, it’s not always exactly the same or it might need a bit more salt or a bit more acid.Ìý You don’t eat as much as people think though.

Ìý

White

I was going to say, isn’t that a bit of a challenge on the weight front?

Ìý

Hann

Yeah, well it’s a saying isn’t it – you shouldn’t trust a skinny chef.

Ìý

So, the white chocolate is in temper now, so I’ve already cleaned the mould, polished the mould, put a bit of silver cocoa butter in and then sprayed it with orange cocoa butter because this is a small machine, I’m just ladling the chocolate over the mould, leave it for a second, so the chocolate will stick to the cocoa butter.Ìý I’m just scraping the mould and then I’m going to tap it [tapping sound], turn it upside down so all the excess chocolate comes out, scrap it again and I’ve just put the mould upside down so the rest of the chocolate can form a nice even shell. [Tapping sound] By the time I’ve done the next couple of moulds the chocolate should be starting to set.

Ìý

Customer

Could I have eight chocolates, please?

Ìý

Hann

So, you actually win on this one because I’ve got some trays that I need to get rid of, so you actually get nine chocolates.

Ìý

Customer

Oh, excellent.

Ìý

Hann

No one’s complained yet.Ìý What can we get for you?

Ìý

Customer

I’ll have a ginger, prosecco, orange, salted caramel and a mint please.

Ìý

Hann

No problem, thank you.

Ìý

White

Pretty full selection there, haven’t you?

Ìý

Customer

Yeah, puts me in good stead tonight for my better half.Ìý I always come bearing gifts.Ìý I don’t come here very often so when I come, I always call in here because they’re very nice chocolates.Ìý I’m from near Manchester, so I’ve come do a little job and if it’s open, I always call in for some chocolate.

Ìý

Hann

Thank you.Ìý Yeah, I get quite a few people that come in because they’re delivering.

Ìý

Customer

Yeah, yeah, all good.Ìý Great stuff.Ìý Hopefully I’ll come back soon.Ìý See you now.

Ìý

White

Stuart, I mean when did you realise that you’d got a sight problem?

Ìý

Hann

Well, I think it was 2015 now.Ìý I was thinking I need an eye test and then they were like – Oh, we don’t know what’s wrong with you.Ìý I’m like – What do you mean, you’re the opticians, you’re supposed to know. And they said – We’ve got to send you to the hospital for other tests.Ìý I got sent to the hospital, they did all the usual tests, didn’t have a clue, got sent to Manchester, been sent to Preston, I ended up going to Newcastle because it’s a rare eye condition which is Leber’s Optic Hereditary Neuropathy, no idea that anyone had had it in my family but they did a blood test but they sent the blood test to the wrong hospital, so I had like lumbar punctures, MRI scans, all sorts of different things that if they’d sent the blood to the right place, they would have known what it was.Ìý And the doctor didn’t find it as funny when he said – you’ve got 100% of this.Ìý And I was like – well, I think it’s the first time I’ve got 100% on a test.

Ìý

White

So, Leber’s – people perhaps know the name but they don’t know the implications.Ìý I mean how would you describe your sight now?

Ìý

Hann

My sight now, it’s like more than like a couple of metres away I can see people but I can’t like recognise faces and stuff.Ìý I could quite easily walk past someone in the street and not realise but when you want to go home sometimes it’s got its advantage, you just want to get home.Ìý But, yeah, so it’s my central vision that doesn’t work as well.

Ìý

White

So, how long did it take then for you to actually finally get a diagnosis and know what you’d got?

Ìý

Hann

Just over a year it took in the end.Ìý I think a bit longer.Ìý But at the time I was still working full-time at a hotel who weren’t being as supportive with me as they should be and eventually when I got my diagnosis, they did a risk assessment to sort of mean I couldn’t do anything but I was doing some stuff wrong because of the amount of work and also, I didn’t know, at the time, whether I was going to wake and being able to see the next day.Ìý So, obviously, it wasn’t the most important thing on my mind but then it all got sorted out and I went back as the storeman but then nobody could do pastry properly, so with the right help and the right planning I started doing pastry again.Ìý Once it all got sorted out, it was good and I was back there for another couple of years but I knew I wanted to have my own business from that, so I didn’t have managers sort of discriminating against me.

Ìý

White

So, you did feel that you had been discriminated against, I mean you felt you could have had more support?

Ìý

Hann

They just basically tried to rule me out but they should have known me better, that I wasn’t going to back down when it wasn’t my fault.Ìý They wouldn’t even do a risk assessment with me there, I was like – well, you can’t determine what I can or can’t see.Ìý But when I got my job back, it was all fine and I got the right support from the new head chef, who we’ve worked together for years.Ìý I’ve always sort of think well you’re not going to stop me and you’re not going to tell me I can’t do something.Ìý It’s like the person that makes all the coloured cocoa butters, he’s actually colour blind – I know it’s not the same as being like properly blind but he’s making all sorts of different coloured cocoa butters and he can’t seem them properly.Ìý You can’t be told no, you’re not going to do something because it makes you want to do it more.

Ìý

White

So, what made you decide you wanted to work for yourself and why a chocolatier?

Ìý

Hann

I’ve always liked doing stuff with chocolate and I told enough people I wanted a chocolate business, so I thought I should probably do it.Ìý And if I left the hotel I was at, I thought I might struggle in other hotels with them actually even wanting to give me a job interview because if I put on the job interview – I’m a pastry chef and registered blind – I know they shouldn’t discriminate against you but they can just say there was someone else better for the job.Ìý So, if I’m my own boss I’ve only got myself to argue with.Ìý I’m working a lot more now but it’s for myself and it’s the busiest time of the year, so I’ll sleep in January.

Ìý

White

I mean you’re in your early 30s, I think, do you have a prognosis for this condition?

Ìý

Hann

It won’t deteriorate.Ìý When… my eye condition when it happens, it sort of happens over a month and then it stabilises.Ìý I think there’s four different versions of it but I don’t think there’s much different apart from its different gene numbers.Ìý And, at the moment, they’re doing stem cell trials on people that have had it less than a year and I think it is working but it’s still early days in the trials, so eventually they could do something with stem cell trials.Ìý And I’ve actually met one of the gene therapist people that was doing the trials because he was up in the Lake District with his friends and went to Wheelbase, which is across the road, so now I know him and he said – Oh, if there’s anything that can ever be done, we’ll let you know.

Ìý

White

What are your plans for this because I mean, you know, it’s in a… not out of the way place but, I mean, do you ever think of having something bigger?

Ìý

Hann

Eventually I’d like maybe another retail shop or a factory somewhere where I’m producing it all at bigger scale, but I don’t think I ever want to give up this location because you get more footfall than people thank and it’s where it all started and I grew up in Staveley, so there’s people that know me and it would be good to have another shop or eventually, further down the line, a unit producing chocolate to sell to the hotels, so they can pick the cocoa content, the cocoa beans and it can be exclusively for that hotel, that percentage, that variety of chocolate.Ìý So, like you can go to all the high-end hotels and go I’m locally making this chocolate and you can work with the head chef and the pastry chef to have chocolate with cocoa content they like because like some can be too bitter, like some white chocolates can be too sweet.Ìý You’ve got to stick to the formula but you can change the recipes to what suits a different flavour or a different dish.

Ìý

White

And then be able to also employ a bit more help for some of the things like driving?

Ìý

Hann

Yeah, eventually, I’ll need someone to do the shop side and then someone to be like a delivery driver/rep to go into places because if I carry on working on my own, I don’t think I’ll be able to like really push the business to the next stage.Ìý So, at the moment it’s working, by the end of next year I want a member of staff, even if it’s just part-time to do the shop side, so I can be producing more.

Ìý

White

Well, all that remains is for me to try and pick out some chocolates for my wife, I think.Ìý Stuart Hann, thank you very much indeed.

Ìý

Ìý