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IN TOUCH – Scotland's Train Ticket Offices; Awards for Service

TX:Ìý 28.11.2023Ìý 2040-2100

PRESENTER:Ìý ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý PETER WHITE

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PRODUCER:ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý BETH HEMMINGS

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White

Good evening.Ìý Later tonight, we find out what an award-winning website should look like if you can’t see it.

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Clip

Every photo here is captioned nicely.Ìý It’s just enough detail to explain what’s happening on screen without being overburdening.Ìý This feels functionally accessible.

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White

Well, you can find out which organisation produced it a little later on.

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But first, there were very audible sighs of relief from many of our listeners a few weeks back when the Secretary of State for Transport announced that the idea of closing ticket offices on English railway stations had been dropped.Ìý The results of the consultation on the proposals had found the idea overwhelmingly unpopular.Ìý But you’ll notice I said English, not a slip of the tongue by an overbearing Sassenach but because transport is a devolved responsibility in the other parts of the UK, where final decisions on this haven’t yet been made.Ìý And at least two visually impaired listeners in Scotland, we know of, still have some anxieties about using their local stations.Ìý

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I’m joined by Melinda Hanvey, from Irvine and first, by Janice Mitchell from Livingstone.

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Janice, on the specific issue of purchasing tickets, what do you usually do?

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Mitchell

My local station just has a machine which nine times out of 10 isn’t working anyway but on the one occasion when it is working, I really struggle to use the machine, it’s not access friendly, it’s not got large print on it.Ìý You know, it’s traumatic enough doing the journey on some days without then reaching the end of it and having to be in a queue for 20 minutes.Ìý Then when you get to the head of the queue the man says – You have a guide dog, you should be travelling free.Ìý And I said – I don’t think I do travel free, I don’t have the special ticket saying that I’m severely visually impaired.Ìý And he said – No, I’m sure you go free, if you’ve got a guide dog.Ìý Now that would be good if it was true but everyone I ask I get a different story so there’s no way to find out, so I don’t want getting arrested for [indistinct words] when I’m meant to pay my ticket.

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White

So, what are the other issues you’re concerned about when you plan or make journeys?

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Mitchell

A big problem that I have with the local station is there is no person, it’s not a manned station.Ìý And I was going on a long journey last weekend to actually go down to London to march at the Cenotaph.Ìý From Livingstone North to Edinburgh, I really struggled.Ìý I did phone passenger assistance who told me they could book me help from the Waverley onwards.Ìý My station is unmanned, so this wee man told me, when the train comes in, if you spot the guard wave him down.Ìý Now, I’m not quite sure which part of I’m severely visually impaired and I have a guide dog with me he didn’t understand but I can’t even tell whether they’re male, female, wearing a uniform or what.Ìý So, that was very anxious for me because a lot of people don’t understand under my circumstances when you’ve got a guide dog, you’ve only then got access to use one hand to help yourself, when you’re going on a long journey you also have a suitcase with you.Ìý So, I have no hands and no help to get on the train.Ìý And in this day and age, I really don’t think that’s acceptable.

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White

Let me bring in Melinda, Melinda Hanvey, I mean your local station is Irvine, in Ayrshire, and you’ve got a long journey coming up soon, I gather, I mean what kind of problems are you anxious about?

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Hanvey

I’m going down to England next Friday.Ìý I’ve booked passenger assist.Ìý However, when you get to your local station, you have to give them a reference number to show them that you’ve booked it.Ìý So, if there’s no one manning that station, that straight away scuppers my journey because I just couldn’t feel confident enough to go up to the platform myself and get on the train.Ìý And then at the other end, when you book passenger assist, you get met off the train and then taken to the next platform to get on your next train.

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White

And how likely is it that there won’t be someone at your station?

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Hanvey

Well, it’s quite frequent that there’s nobody at the station.Ìý That’s not a rarity.Ìý Now, like Janice, I’m severely sight impaired and I just couldn’t manage that journey on my own.Ìý And it sounds ridiculous but I’m getting anxious already thinking about it, if I get there and nobody’s there to help me.

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White

So, what do you think you’ll do, if you get there and no one’s there to help you?

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Hanvey

Turn back and go home because I’ll have no choice because I need to be met off the train in Glasgow and then to be taken to my next train.Ìý I wouldn’t be able to find my seat or anything like that and I do need help.Ìý And if it’s not there right at the start of your journey the rest just goes out the window.

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White

And what do you understand the plans are in Scotland because I mean we’ve been talking, on the programme, a lot, about what was happening in England and the fact that that has now been reversed, what’s your understanding of what might happen?

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Hanvey

When I first heard of the plans I was really horrified because I do go down to England three or four times a year and I’ve signed all sorts of petitions to get the decision reversed and was absolutely delighted when I heard it had been.Ìý But I’ve heard nothing from Scotland whatsoever.

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White

Okay, well we may be able to add to that or we may not.Ìý Someone who has been taking a great interest in this is journalist Alastair Dalton, he’s the transport correspondent for the Scotsman and Scotland on Sunday, he’s also written on this subject.Ìý

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Alastair, I gather that, certainly initially, it did seem as if the idea of closing ticket offices in some Scottish stations was on the agenda, at the same time as this was being talked about in England, what do you understand the situation is now?

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Dalton

Yes, that’s true, Peter, but the plans were much less severe than in England.Ìý In all but three cases, it was a case of reducing ticket office hours, so perhaps closing them in the evening and closing them at teatime, rather than closure.Ìý And, in fact, the three stations that were originally earmarked for closure have had a stay of execution for two years, just to see if housing developments and business can pick up.Ìý This proposal was announced by the Scottish government at the beginning of last year, so it’s gone very quiet since then and it’s been sort of kicked from one minister to another because in that space, we’ve had three transport ministers.Ìý And the latest one has almost suggested that she’s more interested in delivery improvements rather than, what’s called, the national conversation about Scotrail, which these changes were part of.Ìý But what I’m hearing from within the industry is that with the English decision, it makes it very difficult for the Scottish government to be seen to go ahead with a closure that has been abandoned by the Conservatives.Ìý However, on the other hand, I’m also hearing that the English closures may be revised, that there may be alternative proposals coming forward, so this may not be the end of it in England either.

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White

Yes, because, I mean, I know, it’s a devolved responsibility in Scotland but let’s face it, trains run between Scotland and England, to what extent are decisions on things like this, in a way, tied together, whether you want them to be or not?

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Dalton

I think the Scottish government would say, for rail, particularly, they’re very jealous of going their own way, of having powers over almost everything, apart from safety.Ìý They’ve gone for a revolutionary peak fares suspension for six months, so you pay a cheap pay all day from now until the end of March.Ìý So, they’re very keen to see blue water between themselves and the UK government and wouldn’t want to be seen to be influenced by Westminster.

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White

Well, we did invite Transport Scotland to take part in this discussion.Ìý They declined our invitation but they did tell us, in a statement:

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Transport Scotland statement

Our position remains that there are no plans to close any Scotrail ticket offices.Ìý The importance of staff being deployed appropriately in stations and across the network to enhance the passengers’ experience, including safety and control of antisocial behaviour, is clear.Ìý We also, appreciate the need to provide assistance for passengers with additional accessibility needs.Ìý Ministers continue to consider the evidence and will engage with industry partners on the matter of opening hours of the Scotrail ticket offices.

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I mean, Alastair, how do you react to that, given that you made the point that this is still being considered?

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Dalton

Yes, well, that statement is certainly not ruling it out.Ìý And these potential reductions in opening hours would affect about a third of Scotrail stations and most of the ones which have ticket offices and some that are really quite severe.Ìý Even in Melinda’s case, Irvine station, it would close at around 6.00 pm, rather than almost 11.00 pm.Ìý The other thing is that there is an immense pressure to cut costs on the railways because there has been a significant reduction in travellers, particularly at peak times during covid and the Scottish government had to plough in hundreds of millions of extra pounds to keep the services running.Ìý So, they would say that ticket offices have seen a 50% reduction in people buying fares from there in the last 10 years and is it worth keeping an office open when you’re only selling one or two tickets per day.

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White

Let me just go back to Melinda, first.Ìý We’ve heard there the suggestion that Irvine might be on the list to have its ticket office closing earlier, you’ve already made the point that quite often there aren’t many people around to help anyway.

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Hanvey

There aren’t.Ìý I feel that I will lose my independence, I just wouldn’t be able to do it, unless I travelled with somebody else and I don’t really want to have to rely on other people.

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White

And Janice, one of your points was the nervousness, perhaps, particularly late at night, I mean how much do those statements inspire you with confidence?

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Mitchell

They don’t.Ìý I mean for me, at night, after five, four in the winter, I am totally blind, I can’t even make out lights.Ìý So, when I come back from Edinburgh, as soon as we leave the station before me, which is Uphall, I feel the classic – my heart rate’s 300 beats a minute.Ìý I am a fortunate person because I have a very good relationship with the local taxi service, so I phone them from Uphall, tell them what time my train is due in and the taxi driver, very kindly, comes on to the platform to help me off the train.Ìý And while that’s great, it’s not his job, it’s not right.Ìý I can’t see a thing and I turn into a gibbering jelly when I’m trying to get off the train.

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White

I’m sure you don’t but I understand the point you’re making.Ìý Just, finally, quickly, back to Alastair.Ìý I mean, as you can hear, as listeners will have heard, lots of uncertainty there and a lack of confidence in using the trains.Ìý When do you think Melinda and Janice and other people will know what actually is going to happen in Scotland?

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Dalton

Yeah, well, it’s coming up for two years since we first heard these proposals, so that’s a very big question.Ìý However, I should say that Transport Focus, the official watchdog, made the point that you need to give people confidence to travel and that’s the only way that you’re going to increase the number of people using the trains.Ìý And the unions have highlighted that as well, that it’s not just a case of people sitting in ticket offices, it’s the fact you’ve got presence of staff on the station who could help out people such as Janice.

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White

Right, but you’re not going to give me a timescale when they might actually come up with some answers?

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Dalton

I don’t think Scotrail themselves knows actually.

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White

Okay.Ìý Well, look Alastair Dalton, Melinda Hanvey and Janice Mitchell, thank you all very much indeed.

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We have also looked into what’s happening in Wales and Northern Ireland with their ticket offices.Ìý Translink in Northern Ireland and Transport for Wales have told us that they have no current plans to close ticket offices.Ìý If that changes, we’ll let you know.Ìý If you know better, let us know.Ìý Contact details at the end of the programme.

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Now, one of the points which came across very strongly in last week’s item about our digital future was the importance of getting some strong legislation in the UK around making websites truly accessible to blind and partially sighted people.Ìý Something we haven’t got much of at the moment.Ìý But at least one organisation doesn’t seem to need it.Ìý That’s Blind Veterans UK.Ìý Now, as their name suggests, they provide support for men and women who were in the services and who’ve subsequently lost their sight.Ìý And they’ve just won an award from AbilityNet, that’s a charity which has been monitoring the websites of commercial companies and organisations for the past 20 years or so.

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So, congratulations Blind Veterans UK.Ìý But we like to do our own monitoring, here on In Touch, where we can, so we asked Matthew Cooper, who’s a blind technology enthusiast, to run the rule over the website for us.

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Cooper

I’ve already got it open, so, I’m going to switch over to it.

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Blind Veterans website

Blind Veterans UK rebuilding lives after sight loss…

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Cooper

So, I like how they’ve collapsed some of the menus within buttons.Ìý Let’s see how well this works, let’s go to the ‘about us’ one and expand that.

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Blind Veterans website

Menu button to web sub-menu expanded….

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Cooper

Interesting that that’s a heading at the top, where it says ‘about us’ rather than it just being an expanded menu.

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Blind Veterans website

Link resource…

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Cooper

That’s cool, they’re also thinking of low vision users with that mode.

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Blind Veterans website

Link apply for support.Ìý We provide rehabilitation training, practical advice and emotional support to veterans regardless of how they lost their sight.Ìý We’re here to help blind veterans regain their independence…

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Cooper

I like how they’ve captioned the photos and done the Alt text properly.

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Blind Veterans website

Graphic of a blind veteran walking with a cane.

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Cooper

I’m really, really impressed with the way that the controls are labelled up, the way that every photo here is captioned nicely.Ìý It’s just enough detail to explain what’s happening on screen without being overburdening because sometimes image descriptions get way, way over the top.Ìý This feels functionally accessible.Ìý It’s really obvious that they’ve actually thought about accessibility in the design process, rather than just banging on a bunch of accessible controls after the fact.Ìý It feels like I’m looking at native website, it doesn’t feel like I’m working with screen reader specific controls.Ìý The amount of times you go to websites where it detects that you have a screen reader and like changes everything.Ìý So, if you get someone sighted to look at a site, it’s hard to explain to them on the website where something is.Ìý So, yeah, I like this on Windows.Ìý Let me grab my phone and I will try it on the phone.Ìý So, I just used NVDA on Windows, that’s the free screen reader.Ìý Let’s have a look at this.Ìý Right, so I’m going to look at this same home page.

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Blind Veterans UK mobile website

Accept all cookies button.Ìý Web page loaded.Ìý Skip to content.Ìý Served, blinded, supported.Ìý Remembrance 2023…

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Cooper

So, on the mobile site it’s obvious that it’s adjusted…

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Blind Veterans UK mobile website

…Blind Veterans UK rebuilding lives after sight loss, menu…

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Cooper

Okay, so we have a menu button on the mobile site that isn’t on the main site, when you’re on the desktop.Ìý

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Blind Veterans UK mobile website

…hard to use the site, link…. Donate now… Search pop up vertical scrollbar…

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Cooper

The only thing is you have to know to go back to the top to get out of that menu.

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Blind Veterans UK mobile website

…close menu.Ìý Try our new eligibility checker… not sure if you qualify for support from Blind Veterans UK.Ìý A phone with a message saying check if you are eligible in 20 seconds image.Ìý Our work.Ìý Heading – How we help veterans…

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Cooper

Yeah, I can see it’s virtually the same on IOS apart from that menu at the top.Ìý But that’s a pretty standard control on mobile websites now.Ìý I think it’s deserving of its award, personally, looking at that.Ìý Again, it feels like I’m looking at a native website, it doesn’t feel like I’m looking at an overlay or anything like that.Ìý I like it.Ìý It’s a good website.

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White

Matthew Cooper, thank you very much.

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And where Matt describes there the website as ‘native’, he means a website that was build as accessible from the ground up, rather than with a load of add ons.Ìý

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And while on the subject of awards, here’s another one.Ìý This goes in its 50th year of existence to Metro Blind Sport, which has been given the King’s Award for Voluntary Service.Ìý And that’s regarded as the highest accolade you can get for local voluntary work.Ìý Like so many good ideas, the spark for the Metro club was lit from a chat in the pub back in the 1970s, which recognised that there were very few opportunities for visually impaired people to play sport after they’d left school.Ìý

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Well, since then, Metro has grown steadily and it now provides sporting opportunities for just about any sport you care to name.Ìý It’s become the bedrock, really, for many international visually impaired teams and for a host of Paralympians.Ìý So, more congratulations to them.

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And that’s it for today.Ìý If you’ve got any comments or queries you’d like to give us, you can email intouch@bbc.co.uk, leave your voice messages on 0161 8361338 or you can go to our website bbc.co.uk/intouch.Ìý

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From me, Peter White, producer Beth Hemmings and studio managers James Bradshaw and Simon Highfield, goodbye.

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