Â鶹ԼÅÄ

Downloaded from www.bbc.co.uk/radio4

Ìý

THE ATTACHED TRANSCRIPT WAS TYPED FROM A RECORDING AND NOT COPIED FROM AN ORIGINAL SCRIPT.Ìý BECAUSE OF THE RISK OF MISHEARING AND THE DIFFICULTY IN SOME CASES OF IDENTIFYING INDIVIDUAL SPEAKERS, THE Â鶹ԼÅÄ CANNOT VOUCH FOR ITS COMPLETE ACCURACY.

Ìý

Ìý

IN TOUCH – Awareness on TikTok

TX:Ìý 23.08.2022Ìý 2040-2100

PRESENTER:Ìý ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý PETER WHITE

Ìý

PRODUCER:Ìý ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý BETH HEMMINGS

Ìý

Ìý

White

Good evening. Ìý

Ìý

Clip

So, what do you actually see then – just black?

Ìý

Changes in light and contrast, some shapes.

Ìý

So, you’re not blind then, you can see?

Ìý

Trees, this is a warning, you don’t mess with Claire and Rick the Stick.

Ìý

Day in the life of my blind boyfriend, stereotype edition.

Ìý

This morning I woke up like all blind people and bats do – hanging upside down from the ceiling.

Ìý

White

Today, meet Toby, Claire, Reece and his sighted girlfriend, Sophie.Ìý They all, with a mixture of humour, information and sometimes barely suppressed irritation, use the social media platform TikTok to save them endlessly having to answer daft questions about their degree of sight and various other items as well.Ìý That is a gross oversimplification, as I’m sure they’ll tell me, but we’re going to spend tonight’s programme unpicking what they’re trying to do with their videos, beyond having a laugh.Ìý Just for those who don’t know, TikTok is a video sharing platform that has around a billion users globally, pretty big audience – huh?Ìý Unlike YouTube it deals in short form videos, meaning that people creating content on there can post videos between 15 seconds up to three minutes.Ìý People make their videos about more or less anything – organising their homes, cooking, fashion tips, woodwork etc.ÌýÌý So, starting with you Toby, what are you trying to do with yours, with your platform and your videos?

Ìý

Toby

I guess, my content’s evolved over time.Ìý At first, it was really to spread awareness about blind people and living a blind life and now I try to spread light on being blind and show people that you can have a fulfilled life.Ìý So, it’s a mixture of educating and having a laugh really.

Ìý

White

Right.Ìý Of course, other platforms are available, so why TikTok, why does it suit what you’re trying to do?

Ìý

Toby

TikTok is so unique.Ìý It gives anyone an opportunity to go viral.Ìý I think on platforms like Instagram or YouTube or Facebook you have to have that following established to constantly get high views or high engagement, whereas TikTok you can have no followers and, in my case, have a viral video pop out straightaway, that’s what makes it so unique really.

Ìý

White

I just want to unpick that little exert that we heard of yours at the beginning of the programme, assuming that you don’t actually wake up like Reece upside down.Ìý Just explain what that question and answer session is doing, what you’re trying to do with that.

Ìý

Toby

I definitely don’t wake up upside down, that was a great input from Reece.Ìý I guess, we call them POVs, so point of views, and I was having a conversation with – I think it was with just a random person in the street about all the things that I get asked and the common things that people say.

Ìý

Clip – Toby

You move your eyes around a lot – why?Ìý What’s the point?

Ìý

I don’t have any control over it, I think it’s something to do with weak…

Ìý

Also, why are you blinking?

Ìý

My eyes still get dry like yours.

Ìý

So, what do you actually see then – just black?

Ìý

Changes in light and contrast, some shapes.

Ìý

So, you’re not blind then, you can see?

Ìý

Definitely blind, not all blind people can see nothing.

Ìý

Your girlfriend did a good job on the hair today.

Ìý

I did it.

Ìý

Serious question now:Ìý How do you wipe your bum?

Ìý

I’m done with you.

Ìý

Toby

And yes, so, I like to do little videos like that – having a conversation with myself, talking about what I experience most regularly.

Ìý

White

We are going to come back to that idea because it does seem to pop up quite a lot – this idea that somehow not being completely blind is in some way cheating.

Ìý

Toby

Yeah, we’re all cheating the system.

Ìý

White

You’re all cheating the system, that’s right.

Ìý

Let me bring in Claire, Claire Sisk.Ìý First of all, let’s stick with those clips at the beginning that we heard, explain in a bit more detail the bit where you gave the trees a stern warning.

Ìý

Claire

Yeah, so when you’re out walking, obviously your cane will detect anything that’s on the ground but low hanging branches and wing mirrors, you just walk straight into those.Ìý There’s a tree at the end of my street that doesn’t get trimmed very often and quite likes to attack my own face.

Ìý

White

And I think one of the things that got you started with the videos is this experience, which we touched on and which seems to be common to all of you, of some people not believing you’re blind.

Ìý

Claire

Yeah, I was in a supermarket texting my boyfriend, who was waiting in the car park, and the guy in front of me accused me of not being blind because I was able to use a phone.Ìý And normally I have an answer for everything but that really shocked me and I kind of felt, well if a random stranger thinks that, what do my friends and family think and see me doing stuff and just getting on with life, every day, do they think I’m faking it because to them I’m just Claire getting on with life and to this random stranger it’s like well you’re faking being blind.

Ìý

White

Do you understand why perhaps people listening to this, especially people who are not blind, who think surely that doesn’t happen, you know, that’s just somebody being bonkers?

Ìý

Claire

I get it quite a lot actually, not just on social media but in public as well.Ìý Just standing at the bus stop I’ve had someone shout at me.Ìý I think people are a bit ignorant to the fact of what aids are around to help us do things, they can’t understand how we can cook dinner for ourselves, how we can use a phone, how we can use a computer.Ìý And I think sometimes they are aware that stuffs out there to help but they just also want to make like a comment.

Ìý

White

Yeah, I think perhaps part of it is that blind people appear to do some things really very well and then suddenly ask for help, which they probably think is quite simple.Ìý I think it maybe is that.Ìý And we can get into this.Ìý Let me bring Reece in because that was, in a way, the point of your clip, wasn’t it, people just generalising about what they think blindness is and what our lives are like.

Ìý

Reece

A hundred percent yeah.Ìý That’s kind of what inspired us to kind of start our channel with the whole stereotype day in the life stuff because just the amount of amazing ridiculous questions I get from people, you know, just, as Claire was saying, like just strangers in the street come up to me and just ask such weird questions, like oh, so like if you’re blind does that mean you can’t swim.Ìý Just stuff that I wouldn’t even have considered that people wouldn’t think I’d be able to do.Ìý So, I think, it was quite fun to kind of flip it and think about it from that scenario, like how people imagine that we must live our lives because poor blind people can’t do anything for themselves.

Ìý

White

What would be helpful perhaps, this idea of stereotyping, why don’t we hear the full version of your video.

Ìý

Clip – Reece TikTok

Sophie

A day in the life of my blind boyfriend, stereotype edition.

Ìý

Reece

This morning I woke up like all blind people and bats do – hanging upside down from the ceiling.Ìý

Ìý

Sophie

We got up and ready for the day.Ìý I wanted to try out my new perfume but I think it confused Reece a little bit.

Ìý

Reece

Who the hell are you?

Ìý

Today was such an exciting day because we went Christmas shopping and Sophie took me to the blind equivalent of Disneyland, the candle aisle at TK Max.

Ìý

And before bed I wound down with a lovely relaxing bath.Ìý This bubble bath is my absolute favourite at the moment, it really reminds me of barbecues in summer, would recommend.

Ìý

White

We’ll come back to that bubble bath a little later because there’s some interesting issues about that.

Ìý

I want to bring in Sophie.Ìý As we said, we’ve allowed you on the programme although you’re not blind because you experience this first hand as well, as the girlfriend of a blind man.Ìý I mean what questions do you get asked about him, perhaps particularly when he’s not there?

Ìý

Sophie

It’s similar stuff like how – so do you dress him and do you buy his clothes for him and things like, how do you know that he’s attracted to you and stuff like that.Ìý And it’s just – it’s just stupid stuff that I get as well.Ìý So…

Ìý

White

I mean how do you feel when that happens?

Ìý

Sophie

For me it’s difficult because I’m so used to it, so I don’t even think about those things.Ìý I guess that’s one of the reasons we started the TikTok channel because I see Reece choosing his clothes etc., doing all of that stuff on his own, so when people ask me, I’m like – why would he not be able to dress himself?

Ìý

White

Hmm, it’s interesting, you mention the business of clothes.Ìý I went to one of those medicals, it was for work, and it was for the insurance thing.Ìý So, the doctor was asking me questions and he said… this is a doctor mind you…’How do you find your clothes in the morning?’Ìý And I said, well that all depends who took them off the night before.

Ìý

Sophie

I like that.

Ìý

White

You both appear in your TikTok videos, do you write them together because Reece, I know, you’re a professional writer, so where do they come from?

Ìý

Reece

Yeah, we tend to kind of brainstorm the ideas together.Ìý Obviously, Sophie’s doing all of the camera work and the editing afterwards.Ìý I mean in the early days we would literally just go around our house just looking for inspiration, like just looking at the microwave and being like what can we do that, what stupid thing can we do with this and just kind of scripting it on the go.Ìý So, yeah…

Ìý

White

What did you find to do with the microwave?

Ìý

Reece

What did we do Soph… we did do something stupid?

Ìý

White

I tell you a story about that actually, they talk, of course, you know everything we have for blind people…

Ìý

Reece

Yes, mine doesn’t unfortunately.

Ìý

White

Does it not?Ìý Well, you really should get into the 21st century.Ìý No, but, when I got my first talking one and my daughter, who was out on the razzle that night, and she came in and was wandering around in the dark, trying not to wake us up, and walked into this new microwave which said – it’s a quarter to three.Ìý Terrified the life out of her.

Ìý

I’m going to illustrate a bit more of what you do.Ìý This was one of my favourite videos that you let us hear.

Ìý

Clip – Reece TikTok

Reece

Every taxi journey when you’re blind be like.

Ìý

Driver

You brought your drum sticks with you then?

Ìý

Reece

No, it’s a symbol cane, I’m registered blind.

Ìý

Driver

Ah, so can’t see nothing then?

Ìý

Reece

Well, I’ve got about 5% vision.

Ìý

Driver

Must be terrible mate.Ìý My nan’s cousin’s dog, he was blind and he died, so… and I know he was a dog and yeah, he was 16…

Ìý

Reece

Why can’t we just talk about the weather?

Ìý

Driver

Did you know each other then or…

Ìý

Reece

Err no.Ìý Please someone, anyone, call me, I need an excuse to get out of this.

Ìý

Driver

Is there a cure then or anything?

Ìý

Reece

No.Ìý Why is there a cure for you being such an annoying wank…

Ìý

Driver

Oh well I’ll pray for you every day mate.

Ìý

Reece

Alright, let’s see how that works out.

Ìý

White

There’s so much in that – it’s your nan’s cousin’s nan’s dog – that’s what really makes me laugh.

Ìý

Reece

I forgot about that one, that’s quite an old…

Ìý

Sophie

Yeah, my ears – that’s a throwback.

Ìý

White

Well, it’s lovely, I really like it.

Ìý

Reece

Thank you.

Ìý

White

One of the things that’s surprising me a bit is that you’re all relatively young – well compared to me anyway – and yet you’re experiencing this stuff when you’re out socialising and one would like to think that people now have a more sort of open attitude to a disability and yet you seem to be having to deal with the kind of questions I had to deal with.Ìý And if I was doing – if I’d been doing TikTok videos then these are exactly the things I would have wanted to put in, that was two generations ago.Ìý

Ìý

Claire, there’s your story about a guy’s reaction, I think, when you walked into a bar.Ìý Just give us the brief version of that.

Ìý

Claire

Oh yeah, so I was out with some girlfriends in a bar in Brighton and as we walked in there was a group of guys and I heard this one guy say:Ìý Oh, the fitty with the sticky.Ìý I’d had a few drinks by this point, so, confidence levels were sky high and I walked back over and I was like – What did you just say?Ìý And I was all really serious and he was just like – Oh, I was just saying that you’re attractive.Ìý And I said – That’s not what you said, is it?Ìý And he was really stumbling and I was trying so hard not to laugh.Ìý And then he said – No, I just said that you were attractive.Ìý And I said – No, no, you said fitty with the sticky, didn’t you?Ìý And he just like – Oh, yeah, something like that.Ìý And Rick the Stick, my white cane, actually had his name on it.Ìý So, with that I said – It’s not sticky, it’s Rick the Stick.Ìý And then I just burst out laughing.Ìý And thankfully he did see the funny side of it.Ìý But, yeah, I get quite a lot of comments when I’m out.

Ìý

White

And it was very good of you to jump to the aid and support of your stick I suppose.Ìý But I gather you’ve abandoned it haven’t you, haven’t you upgraded Rick?

Ìý

Claire

It’s still Rick the Stick, it will always be Rick the Stick, that’s my way of dealing with having to use my white cane.Ìý But yeah, I’ve got the new no jab one, but it’s still got his name on it and he’ll always be Rick the Stick.

Ìý

White

So, you’re not going to give him a posher name like, I don’t know, Ricardo the Sticardo?

Ìý

Claire

No, Wayne the Cane, no.Ìý It’ll always be Rick the Stick.

Ìý

White

Toby, listening to all that, do you really expect what you’re doing and what the others are doing to change attitude or does it just make you feel better to get it out there?

Ìý

Toby

I think it changes attitude on a small scale and that’s like the first step to change.Ìý Unfortunately, I don’t think we’ll ever get to a point where everyone knows what the life of a blind person is like or what’s a silly question and what isn’t.Ìý But it is comforting to know that you are spreading the right information and people are actually getting educated on things.Ìý And I have had people come up to me in the street and say – Oh, I’ve seen your TikToks and – you know – I’ve learnt so much.Ìý And that, I guess, does comfort me, yeah.

Ìý

White

And that’s what we’ve been trying to do on In Touch all these years, yet you still find that this sort of thing happens.

Ìý

You’ve all used comedy to make your points, particularly with the questions we get asked, is there not a potential danger in this, in the comedy?Ìý I mean we all complain about being asked what we consider to be daft questions, but we also complain when people don’t appear to understand about blindness.Ìý I suppose the question is how are they going ever to get to know if they become too scared to ask questions?

Ìý

Claire

I think we all use light-hearted humour to try and spread that awareness but I think all of us, because of our openness and the light-hearted humour, I feel that opens more of a channel for people to come to us to ask the questions because they know that we can deal with it quite well because you do, unfortunately, get some disabled people who aren’t so kind when people offer help.Ìý I’ve had it myself, where I’ve been crossing a road and there’s been another blind person and I’ve heard someone ask the person – do you need help – and they’ve bitten his head off for it.Ìý And it’s just like, that’s coming from a kind place, they’re not doing it to mock you.Ìý And I think all of us have a sincere approach to it and I feel we are quite open and people therefore feel they can ask us anything.

Ìý

White

Can I bring Reece in because you’re – I mean you’re a professional writer, I’m just wondering how you balance this issue of comedy and cruelty, if you like?

Ìý

Reece

Yeah, I couldn’t agree more with what Claire said, I think it’s such a fine balance to reach because, you’re right, it’s like I find if I open myself up too much you end up getting people taking the mick a little bit, it’s like – oh well, you said this was alright so then it’s impossible to offend you in anyway, do you know what I mean, so it’s a really hard line to tow.Ìý But I’ve always said, every day of the week I would rather someone act as openly with me and ask me stupid questions than acting really uncomfortably, ignoring me and skirting around the subject and then refusing to mention it.

Ìý

White

There’s one more important question I must ask because I said we’d come back to the bubble bath because these are videos that you’re making, so inevitably some of the jokes have visual elements to them, such as the bath gag, which, of course, I didn’t get when I first heard it in Reece and Sophie’s video.Ìý And, of course, the gag is that it’s barbecue sauce, isn’t it, not a bubble bath at all.Ìý Do you have to compromise on how accessible your material is to other blind people if your target audience is, to some extent, a sighted one?

Ìý

Sophie

Yeah, I think we definitely do but I mean we’ve filmed stuff before and been like this is too visual but in every single case of a stereotype video we always add audio description into the comments.Ìý So, any visually impaired or blind users can access the audio description via like voiceover.Ìý That’s really important for us to do that.

Ìý

Reece

Yeah, I think it’s tough though because again it’s that line of like do I want it to hit more on a comic level or do I want it to be as accessible as possible?Ìý So, I think it’s all about that kind of balance.Ìý As you say, on TikTok a lot of the time the majority of our audience are going to be a sighted audience, so we kind of – with some of them we do like to prioritise a visual joke, even though I kind of – I fully hold my hands up, if I was on the app watching it, I wouldn’t know what the joke was.Ìý So, I think it’s kind of a balance where like on the content we can we try and make it as accessible as possible.

Ìý

White

And Toby – Toby what about you because you use humour as well in your videos?

Ìý

Toby

Yeah, absolutely, I echo what Reece and Sophie have said there, like I hold my hands up, there are a few videos that I’ve put out that I wouldn’t have a clue what’s going on, there’s just background music and some hint of context.Ìý And then there is an element, especially on TikTok, where you want the video to be as perfect as possible and sometimes a voiceover from myself does take away from that comedy.Ìý I’ll always say – if anyone wants to know what’s going on send me a message.Ìý And most of the time, I’d say 90-95-99% of my content is accessible for blind people.

Ìý

White

Right.Ìý We’re going to have to leave it there.Ìý There’s so much more I’d like to ask you all about but that is for today.Ìý Toby, Claire, Reece and Sophie, thank you all so much.Ìý Congratulations to Reece and Sophie on their recent engagement.

Ìý

Reece and Sophie

Thank you.

Ìý

White

Ah well, why not and I think it’s Toby’s birthday…

Ìý

Toby

It was.

Ìý

White

…a few days ago.

Ìý

Reece

Ah happy b’day.

Ìý

Toby

Thank.

Ìý

Claire

Happy birthday.

Ìý

White

And if you want to see more of Reece and Sophie’s videos on TikTok search for Blind and Blonde.Ìý For more of Claire search Can See Can’t see.Ìý And for Toby it’s BlindTobes.Ìý And do share with us how your using social media to get your views and attitudes across and the advantages and disadvantages of using humour to do it.Ìý You can email us intouch@bbc.co.uk, you can leave voice messages on 0161 8361338 or go to our website bbc.co.uk/intouch.

Ìý

From me, Peter White, producer Beth Hemmings and studio manager Amy Brennan, goodbye.