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IN TOUCH – Festivals; Visually Impaired Musicians Changing the Industry

TX:Ìý 28.06.2022Ìý 2040-2100

PRESENTER:Ìý ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý PETER WHITE

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PRODUCER:Ìý ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý BETH HEMMINGS

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White

Good evening.Ìý Well, wow, what a weekend for music fans – Paul McCartney, Diana Ross, Sam Fender – all at Glastonbury and that’s before you even mention the Rolling Stones at BST Hyde Park.Ìý But just how easy is it for visually impaired fans to get the best out of a festival like Glastonbury with its size, its crowds and the sometimes rather erratic nature of artists’ idea of accurate timekeeping.Ìý In a moment we’ll be hearing from the organisation which has been campaigning for 20 years now to improve the disability access at music venues.Ìý But first, we’ve had our own mystery shopper at Glastonbury, there to enjoy the music but also to give a sense for us of what it’s like and the best ways of enjoying it.

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Nina Chesworth, you were there, with your husband and two sons – Dylan and Alfie – so how was it for you?

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Chesworth

It was amazing.Ìý This was my eighth time.Ìý It was definitely different to how I’ve experienced the festival before.Ìý

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White

Because you’ve lost most, if not all, of your sight now, as said you’ve been in the past, I just wonder what the big difference for that was, if there was one.

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Chesworth

So, yeah, I had vision in just the one eye before, usable vision, so I was able to see a lot of the festival and what it could offer.Ìý Whereas this time I have no sight now and the difference is there’s no visual, I wasn’t picking up on all them quirky funky outfits and all the visual art that they have floating around the festival.Ìý And also, not being able to see the stage at all was – it was very different.Ìý Being openminded going into it was first and foremost, I didn’t want to restrict myself in any way.Ìý So, I thought I know sound is going to be very important for this festival, I need to be more organised this time around, just focusing on what I could do, rather than what I couldn’t do so that it gives the best chance to enjoy it.

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White

But there were a few tricky moments, even before you got to the music, tell us about them.

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Chesworth

Yeah, so once we got there, we got through okay, we got our wristbands, fine, but once we got on to the campsite – and I have stayed in the disabled camping previously but never, obviously, without the sight – so, because I arrived, I think, with my sons and husband I don’t know whether it was that they just assumed that they’d be there to support me and help but we got a little bit lost, we couldn’t find where we were supposed to pitch, we started pitching up in one place, then we were told we were in the wrong place.Ìý

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White

Let me stop you there because you were equipped with a smartphone for us, we can actually get a bit of the flavour of what went on there.

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Actuality – Glastonbury

So, we just got to the disabled campsite and trying to find a pitch.Ìý It wasn’t that organised and we had to change spots, which was a bit of a nightmare because obviously I can’t help, so, we had to lug stuff around and then move again.Ìý Communication wasn’t that great but the boys are here now, putting the tent up and I do feel a little bit bad that I can’t help them.

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White

But things did get better, didn’t they, it’s amazing when you do things like this how after the first night of chaos things always look better in the morning.

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Actuality – Glastonbury

So, this morning has gone really well.Ìý We’ve seen the Libertines and Ziggy Marley.Ìý We’re just on the viewing platform now at the other stage, which is amazing and nice space.Ìý The staff are all really helpful.

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So, today’s Sunday, we had a fab day yesterday, had a mooch around the healing fields and the craft fields.Ìý Dylan did some wood carving; it was so much fun.Ìý It was so relaxed up there, such a nice vibe.Ìý We’re now at the park about to watch Fleetmac Wood, then we’re going to head over to check out Diana Ross.Ìý It’s been such a great festival so far.

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White

So, things had obviously picked up by then Nina?

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Chesworth

Yeah, definitely.Ìý It definitely got easier once I got the hang of things.

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White

Okay, well, I’ll tell you what, I’m going to be talking to Gideon Feldman, from the organisation Attitude is Everything because for the past 20 years they’ve been working to make venues generally and festivals in particular take more account of the needs of disabled music fans.Ìý And for the past decade Gideon, himself, has been a part of that process.Ìý He told me how Attitude is Everything got started.

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Feldman

Well, the organisation started simply because our founder, Suzanne Bull, was saying why can’t I go to the gigs that I want to go to as a disabled person.Ìý And the question got picked up by the Arts Council, who said that’s a really interesting question, go found out.Ìý She did some research and basically what came back was – the industry, at that time, back at the turn of the century, at 2000, were like – we’re just a little bit confused about how we can implement the Disability Discrimination Act, as it was at that time, appropriately and instead of actively getting involved, it was a little bit of we’re kind of looking at what other people are doing and waiting.Ìý And so, from there, Suzanne built out some case studies and some opportunities for engaging with access provision and the charter – the live events charter – was born from that, kind of built out of there.

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White

And what are the key aspects would you say of going to music, especially perhaps for visually impaired people, which you’ve been trying to improve?

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Feldman

So, things that we started talking about, such as accessible viewing platforms, it means you can sit down and be in an area where you haven’t got that dynamics of movement that might be an issue for some people.Ìý In the nicest possible way, getting up to the mojo can be really difficult in large festival situations.Ìý If you’re able to get there, that’s fantastic but even when there you’re still going to be a reasonable away from the crowd.Ìý So, a viewing platform means you can enjoy a show in a much more relaxed environment.

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White

Now over this period of time, festivals, of course, in particular, have been on the increase, I gather more than 900 of them now, big and small.Ìý Now they are, by definition, quite challenging, aren’t they, some of them pretty big – Glastonbury as an example – the noise, part of the attraction but sometimes tricky to negotiate if you’re blind and their rather anarchic nature.Ìý We hard Nina there talking about having to move her camping pitch, for example, because it wasn’t in the right place and they had to move it.Ìý I mean how receptive have festivals been to the idea of making themselves accessible?

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Feldman

With the caveat that I can only talk about the ones that engage directly with us, I would say they’re all very receptive.Ìý Festivals are putting in place things like access routes, so secondary routes to move around a festival site, which might negate – take out – some of the really high impact crush, potentially – lots of people trying to get through a small space area and you get sort of cut throughs basically to other areas of the festival site.Ìý We’re talking about large print menus and so if you looked at Glastonbury bars, the majority of them had a large print menu on offer on the surface of the bar.Ìý And we’re also having conversations about how the apps work for festivals.Ìý It’s still something that we are in the early stages of but actually having apps which now they all have zoomable maps on of the festival site, if they have an app, but also talking about how the apps work with the access features of people’s phones, so that there is audio talkback.Ìý We haven’t quite got as far as we’d like to with that conversation but it’s definitely an area that festivals are actively looking at how that can work within their festival apps.

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White

If you’re not good at all that stuff and not everybody is, what about human help, can you get that?Ìý I mean Nina went with family but some people might say I want to go on my own, I want to give it a go.Ìý

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Feldman

So, absolutely, every festival that we work with offer companion or personal assistance it gives at no additional cost.Ìý But for people who do want to attend without that, then festivals have lots and lots of staff around, so there are stewards at almost every corner.Ìý And we’re delivering more and more training into festival organisation so that more and more people have had disability equality training before you arrive on site.Ìý So, even if people don’t have the information to their hands, they can find out what someone might ask them reasonably quickly and easily but without having too much of a hassle.

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White

Can I ask you about one thing that might prove to be a problem even before you get there and that is the issue of booking if you’re blind?Ìý I mean it’s basically online; some visually impaired people struggle with that and even if they don’t, speed is of the essence isn’t it, are there any special arrangements to help people book?

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Feldman

There are some areas that we ask, and I absolutely agree, that the timeout is really frustrating, really frustrating.Ìý Again, with charter venues we ask that there’s an opportunity for customers to email in or even phone the access coordinators for those festivals.Ìý That way they have someone that they can engage directly with and so for any festival that we work with they’ll be an access email address, which you can email into, so you’ve got confidence that that email is going to someone who understands access requirements.Ìý And you can either ask for a call back or you can explain the situation such as I have difficulties getting all the information within the timeout, period, can you assist and there are ways that they can do that.Ìý Doesn’t save the issue of festivals, like Glastonbury, which might sell out within half an hour and there is still room to review and assess the access process for that.Ìý Not everything’s perfect, we haven’t got everything right.

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White

Gideon Feldman from Attitude is Everything.

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Nina is still with us.Ìý Just to return to your own experience and having listened to that, Nina, you had some booking problems yourself, didn’t you?

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Chesworth

Yeah, I did, it was when we were doing the PA application and it was uploading pictures because you had to upload a picture of your passport and certificate of disability and it just wouldn’t load and I got my husband to look at it and then I got my mum, I don’t think it was just a disabled problem but my screen reader wouldn’t read it and they couldn’t figure it out so it was a bit of a nightmare, yeah, it was really difficult.Ìý We got there.

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White

Now, I mean Gideon was talking there about the use of smartphones and apps, did you – I know you had a smartphone because you were using it for us – did you use the apps at all?

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Chesworth
I did, yeah, I downloaded the Glastonbury app and with the voiceover on my iPhone it read it but I don’t know whether it was because of the way that the line up was listed, it didn’t read it very well.Ìý So, I gave up on it and then I just relied on my husband and sons to tell me who was on and their taste in music is slightly different to my taste in music so I don’t think I got all the…

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White

Didn’t they tell you everything – oh that’s naughty, that is naughty.Ìý Just one more thing, Nina, I mean I know you ended up having a good time, we could hear that, but I just wondered what you think could be improved and what you think you learnt from this experience as now a totally blind person and what you might do next time for your ninth visit.

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Chesworth

I think the apps can definitely be improved on and maybe offering some form of audio line up separately, you know, so it’s not an app, maybe that could be on offer within the campsite.Ìý I also am 100% definitely staying in a camper van.Ìý I am not going back to a tent.

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White

Well thank you very much for doing it for us and it’s been good fun to share your experiences – good and bad.Ìý Nina, thanks.

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Chesworth

Thank you so much.

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White

Well, one issue Attitude is Everything has also concentrated on is access to the music business for performers.Ìý Of course, there are always the big names like Stevie Wonder, Ray Charles but breaking in can still be very tough.Ìý It’s a subject which Â鶹ԼÅÄ World Service tackled on its arts programme The Cultural Frontline.Ìý Presenter Tina Daheley has been talking to Nigerian American electronic dance star Lachi.Ìý She is now successful and well established with seven albums to her name, she’s even consulted on disability access in the White House.Ìý But in the early days she felt she had to hide her visual impairment to get a fair hearing.

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Clip from The Cultural Frontline – Â鶹ԼÅÄ World Service

Music – Lachi

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Lachi

You know the music industry has a lot of machismos associated with it and I was just afraid people were going to be like nah, I don’t really want to deal with her, does she need help, you know, just not even allowing me into the rooms.Ìý And so, I did what I could to get into those rooms as much as I could first.Ìý And so, I hid a lot about myself, including my disability.

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Daheley

That must have been incredibly difficult because you were presumably going in and out of dark nightclubs, how did you manage that and how did that impact your work, how did you disguise your disability?

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Lachi

I gained a skill in adapting, right, making stuff up as I go and that’s pretty much what I had to do, was be quite the chameleon to get in and out of places.Ìý The only issue with that is when you’re blind you can’t see.Ìý Apparently, that’s the definition of being blind…

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Daheley

It is.

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Lachi

…so, I would bump into things, I would trip on my way into the studio.Ìý Even little things like not exactly knowing which way to face for the microphone.Ìý Or when I’m in nightclubs or at gala events, turns out that the music industry’s very heavily a networking sell yourself industry and if you don’t wave back to the right person, you could lose a gig, you could lose a whole record deal, you could lose an international tour invitation.Ìý I didn’t know what I was losing for not waving back.Ìý And I had to change that.

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Music – Lachi

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Daheley

So, what was the turning point, when did you decide to come out about your disability and why?

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Lachi

So, the way that came for me was that I actually started getting really good at my art.Ìý I started becoming a very good singer/songwriter and self-producer.Ìý I got signed to a great management agency and from then on out I started feeling the confidence myself to go – why am I hiding this, who am I doing this for.Ìý I didn’t end up losing any gigs or any opportunities, in fact I gained a lot because folks began to really understand me, know my story and see that there is a much deeper dimension.Ìý It’s already interesting being a black woman in America and trying to survive but then to add the disability element, it just really says – I have something unique to say, do you want to hear this perspective, sit down and listen.

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Music – Lachi

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Daheley

Earlier this year you launched RAMPD – recording artists and music professionals with disabilities – which brings together disabled music professionals.Ìý Why is a group like RAMPD needed in today’s music industry?

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Lachi

RAMPD aims to amplify disability culture, advocate for accessibility and promote inclusion for folks in the professional industry so that we can begin to see more of this as a natural diversity within entertainment and within music and to start creating those role models for the next generation so that they can see themselves on stages, so that they can see themselves in ads and so that non-disabled people can start to have disability culture influence their every day life.Ìý The advantage that RAMPD has is that we’re setting ourselves up as a prestigious competitive entity and we want to be able to deal with competitive entities within the music industry to really start making change.Ìý I believe that change is when the folks who want change are the folks writing the cheques.Ìý So, getting more folks with disabilities not only on stages but in board seats.

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Daheley

In decision making positions, you’re so right.

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Lachi

In decision making positions, that’s when you see change.Ìý I know just the other day, I was elected to be in the Recording Academy Board, which is a big sort of deal for me, I’m a blind black woman in America and now I am on one of the highest seats in the music industry, that’s change.

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Music – Lachi

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White

That was American electronic dance star Lachi talking to Tina Daheley for The Cultural Frontline on Â鶹ԼÅÄ World Service.

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And that’s it for today.Ìý If you’ve got views or experiences on access to music, do contact us, you can email intouch@bbc.co.uk.Ìý Leave your voice messages on 0161 8361338 or go to our website bbc.co.uk/intouch.

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From me, Peter White, producer Beth Hemmings and studio manager Mike Smith, goodbye.Ìý But let’s leave tonight’s last word to Nina Chesworth.

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Actuality - Glastonbury

Chesworth

There is not a better Glastonbury moment than sitting in a blow-up sofa with my son.Ìý We’re at the Pyramid stage, listening to Elbow.Ìý Life can’t get any better than this – sight or no sight.Ìý This is a moment I’ll remember forever.

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