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IN TOUCH – National Clinical Director for Eye Care; Two Mayors, Same Household

TX:Ìý 30.11.2021Ìý 2040-2100

PRESENTER:Ìý ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý PETER WHITE

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PRODUCER:Ìý ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý BETH HEMMINGS

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White

Good evening.Ìý Tonight, a national supremo for eye care seems a stage nearer.Ìý Well, what would they do and why do we need one?Ìý And more of your questions answered as well.Ìý Tonight, we tackle some of your problems with bank cards.Ìý And we reflect on the luck of Taunton in Somerset to have had not one but two visually impaired mayors, 15 years apart, from the same family.Ìý Well, our guests tonight are couple Sue and Richards Lees, who join us from their home in Taunton.

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So, what is it with the Lees family and public service?

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Richard Lees

Well, we just enjoy being in the community and helping people in whatever way we can.

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White

And you Sue?Ìý I mean because Richard did it back in 2005, you did it 15 years later, was that because you wanted to emulate him or it took you 15 years to get over him having done it?

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Sue Lees

Well, I never thought I would do it, to be honest, a couple of councillors said – Well, why don’t you do it – so, I thought no I can’t do that.Ìý And then in the end I thought, oh I don’t know, maybe I can do it.Ìý This year I started end of May I became mayor.

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White

So, did you think if he could do it I could do it?

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Sue Lees

No because he was better at it than I am.

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White

Sue and Richard, do stay with us and we’ll find out more about the role of mayor and how you fulfilled it a little later on.

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But first, people who work in the field of visual impairment have often complained to us, in the past, that eye care is something of a Cinderella service in the NHS and that it needs someone to fight its corner at a national level.Ìý Well, this answer to a written question in parliament last week suggests that their complaints might, at last, have been heard.

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Junior health minister, Maria Caulfield wrote:Ìý

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Caulfield (read)

NHS England and NHS Improvement are currently developing a role description for a National Clinical Director for Eye Care.Ìý They will support recovery and provide clinical leadership to NHS England’s work to transform eye care services.Ìý A national recruitment process will be launched in due course.

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White

Well that all sounds rather sober but someone who’s advocated something like this on this programme in the past is Cathy Yelf, CEO of the Macular Society, which represents hundreds of thousands of people with the commonest cause of eye disease in the UK.Ìý

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Cathy, your reaction to this news?

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Yelf

Peter, we’re absolutely delighted at the promise that this now holds out.Ìý So, we were very pleased to hear this announcement last week, as you say, we’ve been asking for it for a long time and if it’s about to come true, then we shall be absolutely thrilled.

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White

So, remind us, why you think this is so necessary, why do we need a National Eye Care Director?

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Yelf

Well, I think, anybody who’s had anything to do with the eye sector across the UK, although this post is particularly for England but this applies across the UK, knows how fragmented eye care services are.Ìý Primary care is not joined up to secondary care, neither primary nor secondary care are fully joined up to rehabilitation services and low vision services and everybody knows what a minefield it is to navigate and negotiate the pathway if you’re a blind or visually impaired person.

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We know that there are huge capacity problems in the NHS services, the difficulty of accessing treatment, the postcode lottery that there is around the country.Ìý And all these things need to be addressed and brought together now with some proper leadership at a national level.

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White

Do you have any indication, at the moment, of the timescale on this, given how long you’ve waited?

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Yelf

No, we don’t, unfortunately, but what we do is that eye care is in very serious trouble.Ìý It was before the covid pandemic and it is now even more so because of covid.Ìý And I think that that’s possibly what has pushed the government and NHS Improvement to look at this a bit more closely because we now know that ophthalmology is the biggest outpatient specialty in the NHS, it’s bigger even than orthopaedics.Ìý More than 11 million outpatient appointments a year.Ìý And I think that’s one of the reasons why it has suddenly come into people’s view that this is a very major part of the NHS’s work and it lacks a National Clinical Director to lead making this a coherent programme across the NHS.

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White

And when you say it’s in trouble, I mean what are the tangible things that you think that this is still causing – the lack of this?

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Yelf

Well, we know that the NHS struggles to treat everybody in a timely way.Ìý Macular Degeneration, of course, is putting huge pressure on NHS services because of the number of people who are now developing late-stage macular degeneration, as you say, it’s the biggest cause of sight loss, bigger than all the other put together in fact.Ìý And because of the ageing population the demand is increasing for treatment.

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We know that because primary care in eye care is outside the NHS, it’s delivered by optometry professionals in private practice in the high street, that there isn’t a joined-up referral process in very many parts of the country.Ìý And that means some people are referred into primary care who don’t need to be and other people are referred too late.Ìý And we know at the other end of the spectrum, when people do have sight loss, that it’s very difficult in some areas of the country to access low vision services.Ìý And somebody needs to take an overview of this and try to create a coherent policy and programme for joining up and evening out and levelling up, if you like, the services that are available to patients across the country.

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White

If you were drawing up an agenda for this person, whoever it is who gets it, what would be the top priority on your list of the things they need to tackle?

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Yelf

Well, the eye care, as the minister referred to in her answer, the eye care recovery and transformation programme, post covid, is slowing down and we need to get that right.Ìý There is an opportunity here for the NHS to really rework services to make them more efficient and to make sure that more people are treated but they will need to work with these other ends of the spectrum – the primary care optometrists and the low vision suppliers at the other end of the spectrum.Ìý So, that’s one thing, it is to make sure that the eye care recovery and transformation programme gets on track and actually delivers something.Ìý But it also needs to address capacity, capacity now but also future capacity because there is a – and this is a bit of cliché now – but I use the term so often – a tsunami of sight loss coming towards the NHS in the next 10-20 years.Ìý And you cannot turn out ophthalmologists, consultant ophthalmologists, in a couple of years, it takes a decade to turn out a consultant ophthalmologist.Ìý And if they don’t start planning for the workforce of the future properly now then the troubles are only going to get even worse.Ìý And that involves addressing another issue which is how eye care services are commissioned.Ìý So, we have, now, these integrated care systems being developed which are intended to take over commissioning for bigger parts of the country, that is a really important part of how eye care services are commissioned and supplied to their local area.Ìý Now it’s alright to meet local needs, that’s quite right and we do need local flexibility so that the local needs can be met, but a person with macular degeneration in Bradford has exactly the same needs as a person with a macular degeneration in Brighton and they shouldn’t have different quality services just because they live in different parts of the country.

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White

Cathy Yelf, CEO of the Macular Society, thank you very much indeed.

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Richard and Sue, you’ve both had your eye conditions for a long time now, I mean what’s your view about this, do you think the service needs a makeover?

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Richard Lees

I certainly think that any service, supporting visually impaired people, needs to be improved and this sounds a very good way of doing it and there are thousands of people out there that need this sort of service.Ìý So, yes, it needs to be improved and I’m glad to hear it.

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White

Now let’s move on to talk to you about what we asked you come on to talk about, this job of being mayor.Ìý Richard, you blazed the trail, how did it come about?

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Richard Lees

Well, it goes back to when I was about nine.Ìý I’d been to see the Mayor in Rochdale, where I originated from, and I said to my mum – I’m going to be Mayor of Rochdale one day.Ìý And lo and behold, I didn’t become Mayor of Rochdale but I became Mayor of Taunton.Ìý And how it came about was that I became a member of the Taunton Deane Council, as it was then, in 1999 and every year they would select one of the councillors and one day I was asked if I’d like to be put forward for mayor, so it was seconded and the next year I was made deputy mayor and then the following year it was just a case of stepping up to becoming mayor.

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White

I mean what does the job involve?Ìý I don’t think people really know in a way.Ìý I mean isn’t it just a lot of smiling and shaking hands?

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Richard Lees

Well, there’s a lot of smiling and a lot of shaking hands actually involved it.Ìý But when I was mayor, I had to actually chair the full council and ensure that that run smoothly.Ìý Yes, you go and visit people but you’re also saying thank you to people, Sue can tell you a little bit more about that.Ìý It’s a case of…

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White

Let’s – before we talk about that, I’ve been at council meetings, as a journalist, that’s quite a business, isn’t it, I mean we’ve all seen what can happen when council meetings get out of hand.Ìý How did that go for you and how much experience did you have of that before you did it?

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Richard Lees

Well, I had about six, seven years of being a councillor before I actually did it.Ìý And what I did was I brailled the agenda out, so I had it at my fingertips, so to speak.Ìý And one of the officers would be sat next to me and he would be saying – right, it’s Councillor Smith next, it’s Councillor Jones next.Ìý And if there was any questions that needed some legalistic response I would ask one of the officers to respond.

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White

Because that is the problem, isn’t it, this business of actually making sure that you get to the next person because people get very irked if they’re missed off the list when they want to have their say.

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Richard Lees

Oh yes.Ìý The first time I was in the chair one of the councillors was going on a little while than he should have done and I said – Oh, excuse me Mr – I won’t say his real name – Mr Smith, I think you’ve said enough, could you sit down please?Ìý And he said – What me?Ìý I said – Yes, you.Ìý And he sat down and I thought well if I can do that, I can do anything.

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White

So, really you needed to make them see that you weren’t going to be a soft touch basically?

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Richard Lees

Oh yes, yes, you’ve got to do it.Ìý And if you’ve got the confidence, which I think I had and I think Sue has, yes you can do it.

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White

Let me bring Sue in.Ìý Tell me about a typical day for you as mayor.Ìý I mean you’ve been doing this since May but what would be a typical day and what range of things would you have to do?

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Sue Lees

Oh golly, I mean you don’t necessarily have things every single day, you could have a week with – I mean this week I’ve only got three engagements.Ìý But every [indistinct words] it’s opening something, so you go along and you cut a ribbon and you say a few words of congratulations and good luck in your new business.Ìý And opening the Christmas Fayre, you encourage people to spend lots of money and it’s great fun to be honest.Ìý There’s a lot of – the formality things you have to do as well but a lot of it is great fun.Ìý And it’s such a worthwhile thing to do.Ìý Where you see people in the community, volunteering and doing things for other people during covid, I mean that was one of the really lovely things to go to – to see those people rewarded for what they’ve done.Ìý And graduation ceremonies for our local college because they couldn’t have one last year, I went to four in two days.Ìý So, we did all last year’s graduation students and then all of this year’s.Ìý You just go along and do a lot of clapping for that.

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White

Do you think it’s still got a value?Ìý Some people may think the whole mayor business is a bit outdated now?

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Sue Lees

Well, no not down here it’s definitely not outdated.

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Richard Lees

And if I could say as well there.Ìý The mayor is the number one citizen in your town and people appreciate that and they look to you, in some respects, for guidance and reassurance.Ìý And if you go to the community or the project or whatever it may be, they are so, so pleased, they really do appreciate the mayor attending.

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White

Just tell us a bit more about yourselves – how did you meet?

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Richard Lees

We met at the Royal Normal College in Shrewsbury, as it was then, it’s now changed to the Royal National College in Hereford.Ìý And we met in an English language class where we were asked to do an essay on Shakespeare and I said to the teacher – oh, hang on because I’ve got to write this down.Ìý And I pulled a piece of paper out of my pocket and a pen, I was writing it down and Sue wouldn’t believe me, because she was sat opposite me, she said – you can’t see, so how can you write that down?Ìý I said, well I could see, so I can remember how to write.Ìý And for a while, she wouldn’t believe that I couldn’t see but, yeah, that’s how we met and it just went from there.

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White

Right.Ìý What are your memories of that Sue?

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Sue Lees

I can remember that funny lesson very well.Ìý So, I lived in Minehead at the time and Richard lived in Rochdale, so, holiday time we go and see each other and eventually Richard moved down here because I said I’m not moving up there, it’s too cold.

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White

Now just stay there both of you because we’re going to want your view on this next topic as well.Ìý We’ve had a number of queries about bank cards recently and the suggestion that when banks introduce new designs, they aren’t taking into account the needs of visually impaired customers.Ìý Richard Davies emailed us to say:

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Davies

I’ve just received a set of three new debit cards from Santander to replace those that had expired but they’re almost indistinguishable from each other.Ìý It’s widely acknowledged that colour is used to make distinctions between things that are similar and is truly a universal language.Ìý I therefore, can’t understand why a bank, that exists on the global stage, would not be aware of the obvious difficulties their decision will impose on those who are partially sighted.

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White

Well, we put this question to Santander, this is what they told us:

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Santander statement

We have worked closely with the RNIB to ensure that our new card design, that will be launched in 2022, meets the needs of our visually impaired customers.Ìý We understand that different people will value different aspects of their bank cards and we believe that one of the most important things to our customers is ensuring that the card information is easy for them to read.Ìý Our retail debit cards are shared across our current accounts and have always used the same design and colour but our new card design will use a range of colours to differentiate between debit, credit and cash cards.Ìý The card information, including the card number, will be flat printed, making the information easier to read.Ìý The cards will also have a small notch in them, to help visually impaired customers know which way to insert the card into an ATM or a payment terminal.Ìý As well as helping them to differentiate their bank card from other flat printed cards, such as bus passes.

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White

Sue and Richard, you’ve got slightly different needs from a visual point of view, I thinkÌý because Sue, you’ve still got some sight, Richard you haven’t.Ìý I mean Richard, what do you want from a bank card?

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Richard Lees

I don’t want anything, I won’t use them.Ìý I feel that it could be so difficult for a blind person.Ìý When that response from Santander was read it kept on about being able to read, well obviously someone with no sight at all can’t read the normal print and I think it’s so easy for somebody to see what you’re doing over your shoulder or whatever with a card and can easily swipe it out your hand, anything like that, so I just do not use one.Ìý I go into – if I want some money I go to the bank, get my £50 or whatever I want and I prefer to have that small amount of cash in my pocket.

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White

So, all this talk of the cashless society, that doesn’t appeal to you very much?

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Richard Lees

Not at all.

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White

And Sue, what about you, I think you do still have some sight, are you card denier as well?

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Sue Lees

No, no I’m not actually.Ìý No, I’ve got – I’ve only got a debit card, I like the contactless system, though, that’s the best thing they ever introduced, I think.Ìý I don’t have a pin on this card, it’s a signature card, so you have to sign every time.Ìý So, because of that, the contactless is absolutely brilliant for me.Ìý Though I do like the idea of the embossed numbers that are along the front of your card, those 16 digits, because they’re slightly raised, if you don’t have it in just the right light some of them can be a bit difficult to read.Ìý So, I wish they would put them flat on the card, well my bank don’t do them flat.Ìý But I wish they did, that’s a really good idea.

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White

Right.Ìý So, I think we’re beginning to hear that that is going to be used.Ìý And Sue and Richard, just before you leave us – is this now the end of the mayoral ambitions of the Lees family, come next May is it going to be quiet retirement?

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Sue Lees

No, well it won’t be for me because I shall be mayor for two years, we’ve changed the system down here.

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White

Oh right.

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Sue Lees

So, I’ll have to do another – well I’ve got another 18 months to go.

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White

Richard you’ve – have you had enough now, do you think you’ve done your bit?

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Richard Lees

No, no I’ll never have had enough of being a councillor, I can re-elect in ’23 but I am the Vice Chair of Somerset West and Taunton, the council that we’re under now.Ìý So, I’m still very heavily involved and always will be as long as I can be a councillor.

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White

Richard and Sue Lees, thank you both very much for joining us.Ìý

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And just before we go.Ìý If you sometimes wonder – does raising issues with In Touch really make a difference – well, you may recall, that last week we talked to Paul Royall of Â鶹ԼÅÄ News at Ten about the frustration to blind people over news reports with untranslated foreign language interviews.Ìý If you don’t recognise what that sounds like, it’s like this:

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Â鶹ԼÅÄ News Clip

The pick-up trucks just keep coming.Ìý From here it’s a seven-hour journey through the deserts of Pakistan.

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There are whole families here too.

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Aren’t you worried about going with all these young children?

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[Foreign speaker]

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Now Paul assured us then that they were looking at solutions to this, within an hour of In Touch finishing last week, I saw on the 10 o’clock news a report from Afghanistan with full audio translations.Ìý So, thanks very much for that.

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As always, we welcome your comments on anything you’ve heard in the programme tonight.Ìý And next week, amongst other things, we’re going to be discussing the criteria for when to retire a guide dog and whether it’s too rigid given the waiting time for a replacement dog.

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You can email intouch@bbc.co.uk, you can leave voice mails on 0161 8361338 or you can to our website bbc.co.uk/intouch where you can download tonight’s and previous editions of the programme.Ìý From me, Peter White, producer Beth Hemmings and studio managers Phil Booth and John Cole, goodbye.

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