麻豆约拍

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THE ATTACHED TRANSCRIPT WAS TYPED FROM A RECORDING AND NOT COPIED FROM AN ORIGINAL SCRIPT.听 BECAUSE OF THE RISK OF MISHEARING AND THE DIFFICULTY IN SOME CASES OF IDENTIFYING INDIVIDUAL SPEAKERS, THE 麻豆约拍 CANNOT VOUCH FOR ITS COMPLETE ACCURACY.

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IN TOUCH 鈥� Ofcom on Audio Description; Audio Only Video Games

TX:听 14.09.2021听 2040-2100

PRESENTER:听 听听听听听听听听 PETER WHITE

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PRODUCER:听 听听听听听听听听听 BETH HEMMINGS

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White

Good evening.听 Have you ever wanted to become a blind medieval princess?听 Well maybe not but if you have, you can now, with an audio only video game that鈥檚 entirely accessible for blind and partially sighted players.听 We鈥檒l be talking to its developer and someone who鈥檚 played it a little later on.

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Clip

There鈥檚 something on the road.

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What is it?

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An animal.听 A bear I think.

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A bear!

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Shield read, Alex

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[Roaring]

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[Groaning]

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White

But first, audio description.听 We visited the topic on the programme not very long ago and we asked for your views.听 But if you鈥檙e not quite sure of what it is, it鈥檚 filling in the silences on TV, films and the theatre so that blind people can follow the action more easily.听 This is what it sounds like:

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Audio description example

A hand sealing a letter shut with red wax.听 Now a man, who鈥檚 wearing a black sleeveless coat over a green high collar jacket, galloping on horseback across grassland, clutching the letter in his hand.

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White

Well, that was taken from 麻豆约拍 1鈥檚 series Ghosts.听 And should have given you an idea, with a bit of help from the horse, about what was actually going on.听

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The communications regulator Ofcom has assigned a 10% minimum requirement for the major broadcasters, like 麻豆约拍, ITV, Channel 4, Sky, but there are currently no regulations on streaming platforms such as Netflix, Amazon Prime etc., despite Ofcom, themselves, reporting that there鈥檚 been a notable shift towards on-demand streaming platforms.听

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Well Cathy Taylor is one of the principals in Ofcom鈥檚 content policy team and she joins me now, welcome Cathy.

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Before we talk about these regulations, how they鈥檙e applied and whether they go far enough, I鈥檇 just like you to listen to some of the things In Touch listeners have been telling us when we asked for their views and questions about audio description.

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Clips 鈥� listeners鈥� views

Can you ask Ofcom if they can increase audio description from 10% to 80% both on satellite television and on-demand streaming services like Netflix and Amazon Prime as I feel that we鈥檙e being denied enjoyment of the same things as our sighted peers?听 I feel we鈥檙e being treated as second-class citizens when it comes to enjoying the programmes our sighted friends are taking for granted these days.

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What assurances can they give to ensure that iPlayer audio description will be available?

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As someone with severe sight loss, I鈥檓 required to pay 50% of the full television licence fee.听 For this I would expect at least 50% of television programmes to be audio described.

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My problem is with Sky TV and the fact that there鈥檚 no text speech on the programme listing screen.听 Every evening my wife has to scroll through the sports channels to tell me what鈥檚 available to record.听 This is my man cave not on the family TV, I might add.

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White

Well just some of the views that we got from people.听 We鈥檒l come back to them specifically Cathy but first, just so we know where we stand from the start, what are the powers of Ofcom when it comes to audio description 鈥� what can you do and what can鈥檛 you do?

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Taylor

Right, well, I think first I should say that the 10% figure is set in the law, in legislation, it was set by government back in 2003 and it would be for government to change that figure.听 What Ofcom can do is we provide a code of practice for broadcasters on how they meet that requirement and that includes something which is also set in legislation, ensuring that they don鈥檛 have to spend a disproportionate amount of their turnover on audio description.听 So, that figure is always a sort of balancing act between the benefits to visually impaired people and the cost to broadcasters.

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White

And is that a mathematical decision 鈥� what鈥檚 proportionate and what鈥檚 disproportionate?

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Taylor

We do mathematically work out how much we think it鈥檚 going to cost people to make audio description and because it鈥檚 quite a long process, compared to some of the other access services, so, compared to, say, subtitling, takes longer, it鈥檚 more costly.

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White

Now streaming platforms.听 We understand that Ofcom has made recommendations to the government to aim to apply the same minimum 10% requirement for streaming services.听 So, it is true to say, there isn鈥檛 a requirement at the moment.听 Now what you鈥檒l have gathered from those comments you鈥檝e just heard is that many listeners think 10% for audio description is a very low percentage for anyone.听 So, how is it justified to have such a low figure?

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Taylor

No, I totally get that, it doesn鈥檛 sound like a huge figure.听 The problem for us is, as I mentioned, there鈥檚 this trade off with how much it costs and broadcasters do not have to provide any access services if the combined costs exceed a certain proportion of their turnover.听 So, that means that by making that 10% higher you鈥檙e risking getting into a situation where people get out of it altogether.听 And what Ofcom has done in the past few years, is focused on tightening up the rules on electronic programme guides, the text speech on listings, we鈥檝e now made it a requirement that providers of electronic programme guides make those guides accessible to visually impaired people.听 We put out a report, earlier this year, which showed how the electronic programme guide providers are doing and there are definite improvements.听 So, I鈥檓 hoping that your listener will see improvements in that pretty soon.

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White

Well in fact Sky have contacted us about the listener who was having trouble finding out which sports programmes were on each evening.听 They say they do provide text to speech on their latest set top box 鈥� Sky Q 鈥� and they鈥檇 be very happy to contact the customer to try to resolve the problem.

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Just on the 10% of streaming services, what鈥檚 the progress on that at the moment?

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Taylor

On streaming services we鈥檝e made our recommendations to government, we鈥檝e made two lots of recommendations to government now.听 As you say, we鈥檝e recommended the 10%, so that we feel that鈥檚 a reasonable requirement, particularly for broadcasters who are providing catch-up services and can make that 10%, they have to do on broadcast, they can then make that available on their catch-up services.听 Obviously, that needs to be put in legislation again.听 And then we will draw up a code, as we do for broadcast to tell on-demand providers how to do that in practice.

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White

Now a lot of companies are going above the 10% requirements for AD 鈥� 麻豆约拍 1, 22.5%; ITV 1, 24.3%; Sky 28%; Channel 4, 44% 鈥� so well at the top there.听 That鈥檚 good but surely having such a low requirement to start with means that some companies won鈥檛 put the effort in to go above it and even those who do are being sent a message, aren鈥檛 they, that they鈥檙e fulfilling their obligations by supplying a relatively low rate of audio description?

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Taylor

I think I should first say that we really see this as a minimum requirement and we want to continue to get broadcasters to see it as a minimum requirement, not, you know, they have a achieved it and they can stop there.听 And in practice, actually we鈥檙e not seeing people treat it as a maximum.听 As you said, many people are over shooting that 10%.听 The 麻豆约拍, ITV, Channel 4 and Sky have all made a voluntary commitment to audio describe at least 20% of their content.听 And in practice, we鈥檙e seeing rates up to 78% on E4 last year; 67% on Sky Cinema Hits.听 So, some of the channels that they provide are getting really high proportions of AD relative to that 10%.

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It is impossible for some people because of the type of content they put out, it鈥檚 not terribly useful on the news, on chat shows, on very talk heavy programmes.

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White

But you鈥檝e said yourself that 10% does seem very low.听 What do you think and what do Ofcom think is a reasonable figure to aim at, particularly for the large providers?

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Taylor

I think we鈥檙e seeing good levels of audio description from some of the main broadcasters.听 We do an annual monitoring of the levels of audio description, partly so that people can go and find out where it鈥檚 provided and how much.听 So, I think on broadcasts, we鈥檙e not doing too badly at the moment, I really think the focus at the moment should be on-demand because as you said that鈥檚 where audiences are moving and it鈥檚 simply not fair that visually impaired people are being left behind in that shift.

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White

So, are you concerned 鈥� I mean you made that recommendation initially, I think, in 2017, that 10%, nothing鈥檚 actually happened yet 鈥� are you concerned that it鈥檚 not actually become law, are you allowed to be concerned at Ofcom?

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Taylor

I think, you know, we are allowed to be concerned about audiences not getting to watch the content they should be getting to watch.听 It can鈥檛 be done overnight and it needs to be done in a proportionate way and getting any access services 鈥� that鈥檚 subtitles, audio description and signing 鈥� getting that on to on-demand content is much more complicated than you might think it is.听 And there are lots of technical difficulties because these services are made available across loads of platforms, so you can watch them on your mobile phone or your connected TV or your games console and they all require different technology.听 So, there鈥檚 a lot of hurdles to leap to get this legislation in but it really is in process now, is my understanding.听 We鈥檙e also seeing on-demand providers anticipate these rules, I think, so, again, our annual monitoring shows an increase in the amount of audio description that鈥檚 available on-demand.

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White

One more quick thing, a lot of visually impaired TV lovers are telling us they鈥檙e having to wait longer to watch their favourite titles being audio described because there鈥檚 no audio description for them to watch it right away, when it鈥檚 uploaded.听 Could it be made a requirement for broadcasters to supply audio description as soon as they are uploaded onto catch-up?

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Taylor

It鈥檚 quite difficult to put this into hard regulations but we absolutely would put this in any guidance that we propose for on-demand accessibility.

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White

And again finally, finally, you dealt with one of the Sky moans that there was but there is another one 鈥� no audio description on their on-demand Now TV.听 Can you add anything to that?

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Taylor

All I can say is that this is exactly what regulations are designed to address 鈥� gaps in the provision.听 We are seeing some improvements but what visually impaired people don鈥檛 get is a consistent reliable experience so that you can turn on the telly, you can go to episode three of something you鈥檝e watched on broadcast with audio description and you can watch it on-demand with audio description.听 And that鈥檚 where we want to be 鈥� a more consistent, reliable experience.

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White

And what about people who would just like to talk to Ofcom and say this is what we want, what can you say to them?

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Taylor

Well, there鈥檚 a really good opportunity coming out to talk to us about this.听 We will be consulting on any new guidelines and code that will accompany new regulations for on-demand accessibility and I鈥檇 really encourage all your listeners to get in touch with us, to respond to that consultation if you have particular views on how audio description should work on-demand.

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White

Cathy Taylor from Ofcom thank you much indeed.

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And on that issue of when there might be legislation regarding on-demand services and how much audio description they should provide, the Department for Culture, Media and Sport told us: 鈥淚t鈥檚 important that television content should be accessible for all UK audiences as part of a digitally inclusive society and we want to see an improvement in access services for video on-demand.听 We鈥檙e currently carefully considering Ofcom鈥檚 accessibility recommendations and we鈥檒l set out next steps in due course.鈥�

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And we stay with access for our next item.听 Video games are becoming increasingly popular.听 Last year the UK market rose by the fastest rate in 25 years and according to the Entertainment Retailers Association, it was worth more than the entire video market and twice as much as the music market in 2020.听 And there are plenty of visually impaired people who want to join the games boom.

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Accessibility in video games has been improving dramatically in recent years and more and more gaming studios are creating audio only games, which essentially means there are no visuals to the game just sound effects and a compelling story 鈥� hopefully.听 It鈥檚 rare for these types of games to make it on to the big consoles, such as the Xbox or PlayStation, but one audio only game that has hit the mainstream is called The Vale: the [sic]Shadow Of The Crown.听 It鈥檚 made by Falling Squirrel Studio.

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Clip 鈥� The Vale: Shadow of the Crown

Princess and future protector of the realm need first be able to protect herself.

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You know I鈥檝e never cared that you鈥檙e blind.听 And our enemies will not care about that either when they set out to kill you.听 Here, take this sword.

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[Push the right stick in the direction you wish to swing]

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White

Throughout the game you play as a medieval princess called Alex, who just happens to be blind.听 The game is played in first person, and so, as you鈥檇 expect from being in Alex鈥檚 shoes, you navigate the game by listening out for sound cues 鈥� such as flowing rivers, yelling merchants or enemies charging at you.听

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Well Toby Ott is a self-proclaimed avid gamer and he鈥檚 just finished this game and he joins us.

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Toby, first of all, what is your overall review?

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Ott

Overall, I thought the game was absolutely brilliant.听 I played it over about two or three days and I thought it had a really compelling story with superb voice acting, great ambiances in the different areas, including the towns and the different areas that you actually go to in the game.听 The combat was brilliant, in the sense that it starts off quite basic and then as you progress through the game it does get slightly more complicated.

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White

Tell me, before you go on, have you always wanted to be a medieval princess?

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Ott

Well, I dunno about that but I鈥檝e always been a big game fan, I鈥檝e played a lot of games over the years and it鈥檚 so nice that companies like Falling Squirrel, for example, are coming out with games for like the consoles that are increasingly more accessible.听 There are some parts in the game where you have to actually sneak and use your bow and arrow and that was where it was really cool because you could do all that stuff using just sound navigation.听 And another thing that I liked about the game was how 鈥� I鈥檓 not going to give any spoilers 鈥� but there are some really clever twists as well, which I was like 鈥� wow, I didn鈥檛 expect that.听 Overall though, the Vale鈥檚 a really good game and I would give it about an eight out of 10 I would say.

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White

Listening to that and hopefully not blushing too much with the praise is the game鈥檚 developer 鈥� Dave Evans.听 Dave is the creative director of the game studio Falling Squirrel and he joins me from Ontario in Canada.听

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Dave, first of all, why did you actually want to create a fully accessible game, a game accessible for visually impaired people?

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Evans

To be perfectly frank, the initial reason we started on this game was I wanted to make an audio game.听 It wasn鈥檛 more than three months into the development of this, working in this sort of genre, that I thought 鈥� of course, this is an accessible medium and I should be talking to somebody who might be interested in that.听 And that鈥檚 when I went to the CNIB, which is the Canada National Institute for the Blind and started exploring how interesting is this to the blind community.

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White

Now the protagonist to the game is blind, the princess is blind.听 I imagine that you got quite a lot of advice about what attributes to give them and what attributes not to give them and some of the pitfalls.

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Evans

Oh yeah, the trope 鈥� the blind swordsman trope or the blind protagonist trope, in particular for a sighted developer doing an audio game, I was aware of that day one.听 And the main advice I got on that was make sure the character鈥檚 not defined by their disability, that there鈥檚 many other things that this character is about beyond their blindness.听 And I鈥檓 hoping I did this but the whole idea of this entire journey is you forget about 鈥� you should forget about Alex鈥檚 blindness within the first hour or so of game play.听 And then she鈥檚 everything else but that.

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White

Now it鈥檚 quite rare for an audio only game to reach the mainstream consoles but yours is available to play on the Xbox.听 What does this mean for the future of accessible games, do you think?

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Evans

I have thought about this because even though there are obvious accessibility benefits from working the genre but very quickly I knew if this was to be something that was marketable it really did involve moving into the mainstream.听 And in a strange way, because I worked very closely with the blind community in making this game, at the end of the day, I feel like it was less about me making a game for this community than me making a game with this community for everyone.

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White

Dave Evans, Toby Ott, thank you both very much indeed.听 And we鈥檇 welcome your suggestions, perhaps for Dave鈥檚 next game.

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And that鈥檚 about all for today.听 If you鈥檇 like to share your thoughts and opinions about anything at all that we鈥檝e covered in tonight鈥檚 programme, you can send us an email on intouch@bbc.co.uk, you can leave a voice message on 0161 8361338 or you can visit our website where you can download tonight鈥檚 and previous editions of the programme.

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That鈥檚 it from me, Peter White, producer Beth Hemmings and studio managers Sharon Hughes and Jonathan Esp, goodbye.

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