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IN TOUCH – Electric Scooters; Fans Return to Stadia

TX:Ìý 25.05.2021Ìý 2040-2100

PRESENTER:Ìý ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý PETER WHITE

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PRODUCER:Ìý ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý SIMON HOBAN

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White

Good evening.Ìý Tonight, we hear from blind and partially sighted football fans on what it was like, finally, to return to stadia, as restrictions were eased.

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Clip

Unfortunately, my dog is a bit mouthy, she likes a good bark up.Ìý No worries whatsoever.Ìý So, yeah, get yourself out there and get yourself to a football match and enjoy the atmosphere.

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White

We’ll ask fans from Brighton and West Ham United how their clubs are doing when it comes to accessibility under the new rules.

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But first, electric scooters – they’re back in the news again.Ìý There’s been a big reaction to new research showing there have been more than 200 injuries and over a thousand complaints since trials of these scooters began in 50 towns and cities across the UK almost a year ago.Ìý The figures were revealed in ITV’s Tonight programme, last Thursday.Ìý Visually impaired organisations and charities have renewed their calls for better regulation and policing of eScooters and you’ve already been emailing our inbox.Ìý Christine got in touch, she said: ‘Can I suggest that we all come together to stop these potentially dangerous vehicles.Ìý Yet another potential obstacle hindering me from leading a safe independent life.’

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Well, we thought high time we talked about this on In Touch again.Ìý I’m joined by Rhiannon Valadini, who’s registered blind and has had a number of experiences of eScooters in Cambridge.Ìý Rhiannon, what’s been happening to you?

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Valadini

I’ve had a number of quite negative experiences myself with eScooters and eScooter users, unfortunately, including them being abandoned in the middle of pavements, particularly in the dark, at night, seems to be when it happens most.Ìý I think people think that no one will notice.Ìý I had one particular incident where I was walking with a friend who had to bodily move me out of the way because I was going to fall over it, as I couldn’t identify where it had been left, and it was just laying across the pavement in the dark.Ìý I’ve also walked into their handlebars when they’ve just been propped up against café seating areas, in the middle of pavements.Ìý And a lot of the walkways in Cambridge are very narrow already without further obstacles sort of being leant against chairs or just leant up against windows where the foot bars are just left in the path.

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White

And I gather you’ve got a little bit of sight; you’ve also had problem with their lights haven’t you?

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Valadini

Yes, so, in the incident where my friend had to move me out of the way, there’s a green light somewhere near the handlebar, I think maybe that’s how you use it with the app, I’m not entirely sure, but it flashes intermittently.Ìý So, I could see this light, which was very disorientating but I couldn’t figure out where the rest of the scooter was, turns out it was on the pavement.

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White

So, is that the main problem – the fact that they are on pavements?

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Valadini

I think the main problem is, is that there’s no specific place that people have to put them back, you know, once they’ve got them and they’ve used them for their purpose, there’s nowhere that they actually have to put it back.Ìý So, people don’t feel obligated to put them in a safe place, they just leave them wherever’s convenient.

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White

And what about the sound they make – I mean how much warning do you get?

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Valadini

Well, absolutely none, they’re very, very quiet because they’re – I mean I think the motorised ones, the electric scooters, and there’s no sound whatsoever.Ìý So, I was walking, doing my daily commute to work, just the other day, and one shot past me so close that it knocked the bag that I was holding and I had no warning until it was right behind me, because it’s so soundless.

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White

What effect is this having on your confidence?

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Valadini

Well, it makes me very anxious.Ìý I like to think of myself, generally, as quite a confident person, I’ve been commuting to work now for two years and it has made me very nervous.Ìý I don’t have my usual cues to pick up if something’s coming behind me and it’s just very unpredictable and it makes me feel very anxious.Ìý I think, as the lady who wrote in said, you know, commuting by myself I like to now ask if a colleague can meet me or if I can meet a friend before work that wouldn’t mind walking with me because I do fear being hit or getting into an accident.

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White

Rhiannon, thanks very much indeed for joining us.

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Also with us and listening to that is Mike Bell, who’s from Sight Loss Councils, which are funded by the Thomas Pocklington Trust.Ìý Mike, first all, I mean what’s your reaction to these figures – over a thousand complaints, more than 200 injuries and indeed what you’ve just heard from Rhiannon?

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Bell

Rhiannon absolutely spoke really powerfully to what we hear everyday about people’s experiences with eScooters.Ìý And the figures from ITV Tonight were really shocking and absolutely underlined the very real problems that eScooters present.Ìý I mean, fundamentally, it's the perfect storm isn’t it – you’ve got a vehicle that is silent, it can operate at a speed considerably in excess of the average walking speed, you’ve got a vehicle that’s very difficult for blind and partially sighted people to see, obviously visual impairments are not always obvious to the person using the eScooter either, so you’ve then got real challenges for those two groups of people – users and those with visual impairments – seeing each other and that inherently makes interactions between the two really dangerous.

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White

Rhiannon mentions the pavement, the fact that they’re on pavements, but they’re not supposed to be on pavements, I mean what’s going wrong here, that is specifically forbidden?

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Bell

Yeah, absolutely, you’re quite right.Ìý So, they should not be used on pavements, the trial schemes are only for use on the highway, the road, and a few other designated areas.Ìý And there are two problems really, so there are far too many schemes at the moment that allow dockless parking, so literally, as Rhiannon described, eScooters can be left anywhere – in the middle of the pavement, parked up for the next user to use – that’s really poor and we want all eScooter operators to be using docking bays, which are clearly marked and separated from the pedestrian areas.Ìý But the other is, that so many of the schemes rely on the user not to drive on the pavement and unfortunately human nature is such that people ignore that rule and take the shortest cut they can.

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White

Now the organisation Guide Dogs asked police forces how many of them were taking action against unsafe driving of eScooters and parking on the pavements, very few said they were.Ìý You can’t blame the police though really, have they really got the resources to police this?

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Bell

And that’s a really good point because we know that a lot of the rules are not being enforced, either by operators or local authorities or the police.Ìý And what that points to is the real, real danger of more widespread legal ownership for private use as well, at least with the hire schemes everyone’s got some controls and influence over the regulations but if we then end up with more widespread legal use of private eScooters too, we can see that it could be a recipe for chaos.Ìý So, we do need all of the operators to raise their game really and I think this ITV Tonight report is a real wakeup call to them but also to the government that they’ve got to put the right tough legislation in place to regulate this.Ìý And only when we’ve done that can we then properly evaluate the effectiveness of these schemes and see whether wider private ownership is appropriate.

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White

Mike Bell and David Davis thank you very much indeed and before that we heard Rhiannon Valadini.

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If you’d like to comment on that and tell us your experiences eScooters do get in touch.Ìý As anyone got anything good to say about eScooters?

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Now, although the fact that football continued behind closed doors was a welcome distraction from coronavirus – well it was if you were a football fan anyway – it just hasn’t been the same without fans.Ìý Well, last week things began to return to some semblance of normality.Ìý Up to 10,000 fans were allowed back into stadia, including some of the many people who are visually impaired who enjoy their football.

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Our reporter, Fern Lulham, went to Brighton and Hove Albion last Tuesday, ahead of their home match against already champions, Manchester City.

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Lulham

So, it’s very exciting here outside a rather windy AMEX stadium, as the fans start to arrive for the match tonight.

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The tickets for the game were allocated on a lottery basis and among the winners was visually impaired Brighton fan, Nick Ethridge.

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Ethridge

Well, I’m thrilled.Ìý It’s exciting, I love it.Ìý We get the email through and they tell you there’s a form about social distancing and making sure we wear masks and all that stuff.Ìý They’ve been thorough.

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Lulham

What are the most important things for you, in any stadium, to make it accessible to you as a visually impaired person?

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Ethridge

Most of the grounds that we’ve been to – Stoke, Fulham, we’ve been to Derby, Northampton and they’ve been absolutely brilliant.Ìý The people who are actually doing the commentary, it’s never us and them, it’s always the name of the club that’s being ball to ball.Ìý It’s been really good, very neutral on their side.

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Lulham

Yeah.Ìý And just finally Nick, what would you say to a visually impaired person that is thinking of coming to an actual match at a stadium but is a bit nervous about it?

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Ethridge

First of all, come with someone.Ìý On a full match day when there’s 32,000 people it’s completely safe, I’d have no problems at all.Ìý If there’s anyone with a guide dog, they have an area at the front where they allow guide dogs in, unfortunately, my dog is a bit mouthy, she likes a good bark up, no worries whatsoever.Ìý So, yeah, get yourself out there and get yourself to a football match and enjoy the atmosphere.

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Lulham

Hope you enjoy the game tonight.

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Ethrdige

Ah, I’m sure we will and see whether we can beat them today.

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Lulham

Yeahhh.

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Ethridge

Yeah, Seagullssss.

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Lulham

Brighton and Hove Albion pride themselves on being a club that’s accessible to all and, like most premiership clubs, Brighton employ a disability liaison officer to manage all the practical stuff – Milly Crowhurst.

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Crowhurst

We offer carer tickets – so a free carer season ticket – to disabled supporters that may require one. ÌýWe offer inhouse audio descriptive commentary and obviously this year’s been a bit different hasn’t it, so with games that have been behind closed doors, we’ve actually set up audio descriptive commentary but via Zoom.Ìý We’ve also got a here to help team, as well, on a matchday, who would be happy to assist you even into the stadium.

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Lulham

Do your rules allow visually impaired people to take the arm of a sighted guide, so including members of your own staff if necessary, so that they can comply with, for example, social distancing when it comes to queueing up and finding their way around?

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Crowhurst

If a supporter’s coming and they haven’t got a companion with them, we’re there on a matchday, we’re masked up, we’ve got gloves on, hand sanitiser at the ready and if someone needs the help, if it was me, I’d be more than happy to guide someone to where they needed to be.

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Lulham

Do you liaise with other clubs, so you can sort of work together to help?

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Crowhurst

Pre-covid I’d always email my counterpart at the club that’s hosting us, I might inform them that one of our supporters is bringing their assistance dog or X supporter is sitting in this seat and they would like audio descriptive commentary to be brought to them.Ìý It’s massively about communication, not just from club to club but supporter to club as well because if we’re getting as much information as we can from the supporter, we will do everything we possibly can to ensure that their visit home and away is mirrored in a sense.

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Lulham

Another lucky winner was Gordon Devall, who comes along to matches with his guide dog Henry.Ìý Gordon was lucky enough to have gone to a socially distanced friendly match against Chelsea in August.

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Devall

They had fences around and everything else and yeah stay two meters apart and then you sanitise as you go through, then you sanitise again as you go up in the lift.

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Lulham

Was all of that okay, wasn’t a problem for you?

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Devall

It was a bit of a struggle doing Henry’s paws [laughter].

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Lulham

So, he’s a football fan too?

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Devall

Yeah, he loves the Brighton, been at all the away matches.Ìý Man City gave him a shirt.Ìý He’s got loads of memorabilia from all the games.

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Lulham

Although stadiums are opening back up again now Gordon, they are subject to social distancing rules, are you happy with the way that the rules have been communicated to you by the club?

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Devall

Yes, very happy.Ìý They’ve sent me emails; they’ve even phoned me and there’s always someone there to help.Ìý I can’t fault them, they’re 100% and more.

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Lulham

And do the social distancing rules cause you any concern, for example, like queuing up or moving around the stadium in general?

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Devall

They’ve got lines.Ìý Henry stops at a line because he’s used to the lines at the railway crossings.Ìý The stewards, they’re so helpful anyway and they even give me VIP parking, so I see all the players come over to us.

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Lulham

How do you find accessibility at away matches in general, is it pretty good or are there any problems?

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Devall

Liverpool, they’re great, they take you to your seat, take your order for drinks, so you don’t have to go and queue.Ìý The other one that was great was Leeds.Ìý At the end of the match, they took us all the way through the crowd straight to our car.Ìý Brighton, no need to do that because everyone moves out the way because they know what I’m like anyway.

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White

Fern Lulham reporting there.Ìý I don’t want to take too much away from Brighton but it did rather look as if Man City already had their flip flops on in the second half of that game.

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I’m going to continue in that vein now because we’ve got a West Ham fan on the line.Ìý Now they played my beloved Southampton for the last game of the season on Sunday and I have to report that we had a very successful first five minutes and then managed to lose three-nil.Ìý So, I’m joining Paul Goodwin, who is a Hammer, and he was there.Ìý Paul, a good day for you, not such a good day for me.

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Goodwin

Oh, absolutely awesome, fantastic day all round, great result and yeah, we finished above Spurs, so it can’t get much better than that can it?

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White

How much have you missed it all during the pandemic?

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Goodwin

Oh massively, I mean it’s been, what, 16 months since we last went to a game and yeah, it’s just been – yeah, I’ve missed it massively.Ìý Literally the day I got confirmed in the ballot that I’d been successful with a ticket, I was also discussing on the phone with Guide Dogs, my guide dog Molly’s retirement, so it’s quite an emotional sort of thing there, you know, it happened all at once.Ìý So, really happy.

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White

So, Sunday was her last game as well, was it?

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Goodwin

It was, it was her final game and, obviously, the last year or so, she’s sort of gone into semi-retirement mode because obviously we’ve been at home most of the time or social distancing a lot.Ìý So, this last game she suddenly had all the zip and energy, it was just like the old days, it was normality for the day, it was fantastic, or near normality at least.

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White

So, what are facilities like at West Ham for you?

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Goodwin

They’re really accessible, they really are, since they’ve moved to the new stadium.Ìý I know a lot of people moan about it, it’s never going to be Upton Park etc. etc., but they really are very accommodating from the moment you arrive there.Ìý I am severe sight impaired, registered blind, as such, but I can see a little bit, so I can still see them in their Hi-Vis jackets, they do tend to be in a different colour, so you can see them.Ìý They’re always very helpful.Ìý And if I haven’t got a companion or a free carer with me, then they’ll guide me to my seat.Ìý And very much the share football banter with you and make it a nice day and they’re nice to Molly, as well, keep her at arm’s length but you know still respect the fact she’s a guide dog.

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White

And is there a commentary, a sort of tailor-made commentary for visually impaired fans?

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Goodwin

There is, there is and I must admit I’m still stubborn, some people might say I’m in denial but because I can still a bit, I’m determined to still follow that ball and there will be times I’m saying to my daughter or my friends – ooh, what’s he doing, where’s that gone – you know, because I’ve lost the ball and they’re saying where are you looking, etc.Ìý But, you know, I still try and make do without that but they have got that facility and it’s a headset you can keep all season and then return at the end of the season, as well, being a season ticketholder.Ìý So, again, very accessible and very well organised.

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White

And how different were things on Sunday to the matches you would normally have gone to and will be hoping to go to next season?

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Goodwin

I don’t know, for me it felt surreal, it felt quite overwhelming, the actual getting there because I actually travel up from Oxford, I’m exiled Hammer from Essex but I live in Oxford.Ìý So, it’s a bit of a journey up there and it was quite overwhelming the actual journey getting there and then getting to the stadium, sort of outside the stadium because obviously there wasn’t the volume of fans.Ìý So, it kind of felt different, with my limited vision, it just felt – everything didn’t feel the same, it was really strange.Ìý But then chatting to friends in the pub before the game, even the ones that are fully sighted, they couldn’t engage with the fact – which train station, which tube do we change at – it had been so long, it had almost been like our brains had been frozen back in time.Ìý So, it wasn’t just me or perhaps I am going mad, I don’t know.

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White

I doubt it.Ìý Any problems with social distancing?

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Goodwin

No, not in the stadium.Ìý Again, I would say, as I said earlier, it was a bit overwhelming getting there and definitely sort of on the tubes, Underground, that sort of stuff, that wasn’t the best experience, if I’m brutally honest but as for the football stadium, itself, they absolutely nailed it, you know, we were all socially distanced and just taken good care of, like I say, by the stewards in the ground.Ìý And even prior to walking there, everyone was just walking and it was common sense, fans were just using common sense approach and it felt really safe.Ìý And, as I say, Molly – Molly had a spring in her step and she got me to the turnstile, so it was all good.

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White

Well, Paul Goodwin, in spite of you lot putting one over us, I wish you the best of luck for next season.

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Goodwin

Thank you very much, nice talking to you, come on you irons.Ìý Thank you.

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White

Cheers Paul, thank you very much indeed.

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And that’s it for this week.Ìý Your comments and experiences welcome as always at football or anywhere else.Ìý You can email intouch@bbc.co.uk and there’s more information on our website, bbc.co.uk/intouch from where you can also download tonight’s and previous programmes.

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That’s it, from me, Peter White, producer Simon Hoban and studio managers Tom Parnell and Mike Smith.Ìý Goodbye.

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