Â鶹ԼÅÄ

Allocation of a channel number to the Freeview Accessible TV Guide – 10 October 2019

Digital UK encourage responses from all stakeholders in the DTT platform; particularly channelÌýproviders, multiplex operators, TV platforms that would be affected by the proposals,Ìýconsumer groups, charities representing disabled people and older people, and viewers andÌýlisteners, particularly those with disabilities affecting their sight, hearing or both.Ìý
Digital UK will publish all non-confidential responses on their . Please indicate on yourÌýresponse whether none, some, or all of your response is confidential. In the absence of anÌýindication to the contrary, responses will be treated as non-confidential.Ìý
To be considered, a response must reach Digital UK by 17:00 on 8 November 2019, unlessÌýÌýDigital UK accepts that mitigating circumstances apply.Ìý
Responses can be emailed to consultation@digitaluk.co.uk or mailed in hard copy to theÌýÌýfollowing address: FAO: Sarah Fox, Digital UK, 2nd Floor, 27 Mortimer Street London W1TÌý3JF.Ìý

Downloaded from www.bbc.co.uk/radio4

THE ATTACHED TRANSCRIPT WAS TYPED FROM A RECORDING AND NOT COPIED FROM AN ORIGINAL SCRIPT.Ìý BECAUSE OF THE RISK OF MISHEARING AND THE DIFFICULTY IN SOME CASES OF IDENTIFYING INDIVIDUAL SPEAKERS, THE Â鶹ԼÅÄ CANNOT VOUCH FOR ITS COMPLETE ACCURACY.

IN TOUCH –ÌýWhat's on telly tonight?

TX: 22.10.2019Ìý 2040 -2100

PRESENTER:Ìý ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý PETER WHITE

PRODUCER:Ìý ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý LEE KUMUTAT

Ìý

Peter White

Good Evening.Ìý What's on telly tonight?Ìý But obviously, we'd much rather you stayed with us, but we will be looking at the progress made in making programme schedules more accessible for visually impaired people.Ìý And old technology meets new to try to make getting around easier.

Ìý

Lucy Edwards

I'm just gonna screw the 'WeWalk' device onto it.Ìý A tiny bit fiddly but once it's on, it's on!

Ìý

Peter White

Lucy Edwards has been road-testing a Smartphone on a stick!Ìý Well there's a bit more to it than that as you'll find out a little later!

Ìý

But first, last year the communications regulator OFCOM adopted a policy that all providers of electronic programme guides.Ìý Those are the lists of programmes you can watch on TV and what times there showing, should be made accessible for visually impaired people.Ìý The new code states that speech output should be provided wherever possible, programmes that are signed or which have audio description be made easy to find and text magnified.Ìý Well some companies offer this accessible on apps.Ìý And there are some Smart TVs also, which have electronic programme guides or EPGs built in.Ìý Freeview, the biggest platform in the UK is working on implementing this and its currently running consultation.Ìý Digital UKs Head of External Relations Liz Reynolds told me more.

Ìý

Liz Reynolds

So we have a new TV service called 'Freeview Play', which brings life TV channels and catch up services from the likes of the Â鶹ԼÅÄ, IPlayer and ITV with their ITV Hub, so it brings normal broadcast TV channels together with internet delivered catch up services.Ìý And I guess it's that new service that has allowed us to start working on this new accessible TV guide, which relies on the Internet to be delivered.

Ìý

Peter White

So and what, if people want to do this now, officially impaired people want to do it, what are the options for them?

Ìý

Liz Reynolds

At the moment, there are a number of manufacturers who have accessible features, they have text speech services.Ìý But what's not available at the moment, is the option to filter services according to whether you'd like audio descriptions, subtitles or sign services.Ìý

Ìý

Peter White

So why are you running this consultation?Ìý I mean you've been told what you've got to do, erm why do you need to do that?

Ìý

Liz Reynolds

If I just explain what the accessible TV guide will actually be, so the user would tune to the relevant channel and be presented with a high contrast programme guide.Ìý They'd then use the remote control, so the up/down, left/right and okay buttons to navigate around and find the programme they'd like to watch and then select it.Ìý It'll be automatically set to speech, which the user can turn off in their TV settings if if they would prefer that.Ìý And that they'll also be able to use the settings to choose what kind of content they'd prefer, so whether its audio described or or signed or with subtitles.Ìý And then the guide will then filter those relevant programmes and only these will be displayed, both for live and on demand shows.Ìý And what we're consulting on is which numbers on the remote control to use, err we have two options available '555' or '258'.Ìý And we've worked with the Digital Accessibility Centre, erm and they have told us that their preference would be '555' because of the tactile indicator on the number '5' button on the remote control that's normally either err a dash or a dot, which is slightly raised.Ìý The alternative is '258' which would be a single line of numbers down the middle of the remote control.

Ìý

Peter White

Yeah, it's a vertical line so you just...

Ìý

Liz Reynolds

That's right.

Ìý

Peter White

...you just go down and if you're not very used to doing those things tactile that would make it easier.

Ìý

Liz Reynolds

That's right!Ìý

Ìý

Ìý

Peter White

Yes.

Ìý

Liz Reynolds

So we have these two options, erm and the reason why we're consulting is we'd like to hear from err a wide range of both industry stakeholders and potential users.Ìý Hopefully, some of your listeners' to gauge feedback on which option people would find best!

Ìý

Peter White

Mm!Ìý I mean ob...obviously, err it's good to check with people.Ìý I mean a lot of blind people use telephones and are used to using telephones.Ìý Couldn't you just select a channel erm because it'll hold the process up won't it?

Ìý

Liz Reynolds

Those channel numbers that I mentioned are currently used by other channels.

Ìý

Peter White

So what are those numbers that you'd like to choose, what are they being used for at the moment?

Ìý

Liz Reynolds

There are other TV services in the UK that rely on 'Freeview channels, so You View, EE TV, Now TV' they all use our EPG listing.Ìý And some of those services are as I said, using those channel numbers for other services.Ìý One of them is using it for a channel called 'Zee TV', so obviously that has an impact on those channels where they'd to have to move.

Ìý

Peter White

Yeah, you'd have to get them to modify what they do before you could do what you want to do.

Ìý

Liz Reynolds

Well they'd have to move to a different channel number.Ìý And obviously, that would take some planning err from their side, so we we have to do this in a responsible manner.

Ìý

Peter White

So if it comes out as '555' you know if people say "That's the one we want" cos clearly that's erm very easiest, will they then have to move?

Ìý

Liz Reynolds

We will take all things into consideration and we will work closely with the other services to implement whatever is best for for users of the service.

Ìý

Peter White

Will be an...an issue of negotiation or will you say, if people have asked for that, they will get it.

Ìý

Liz Reynolds

We'd obviously like to hear from as many potential users as possible, erm and the more people respond you know the more weight there is behind the argument.Ìý Erm we will be able to take those responses into consideration and and work with the other services.

Peter White

Will the accessible electronic TV guide, will...will it work on all TVs?

Ìý

Liz Reynolds

Erm, it will work on Freeview Play TVs.Ìý So people, erm would need a Freeview Play TV or a Set Top Box.Ìý And about 60% of all Smart TVs sold now are Freeview Play, erm and there available from a range of manufacturers at a...at a range of price points.

Ìý

Peter White

So that's what you would need to ask for.Ìý It would be a good idea to go in and say "Will I be able to get this service on this...

Ìý

Liz Reynolds

That...

Ìý

Peter White

...television that I'm buying?

Ìý

Liz Reynolds

That's right.Ìý If people are erm buying a new TV or a new Box, erm they should definitely ask their retailer if it's Freeview Play.Ìý And that will then, allow them to erm access the new guide.

Ìý

Peter White

What do you think the timescale on this will be?Ìý Your mounting a consultation now, when might your electronic err guide be available to people?

Ìý

Liz Reynolds

Erm, we're hoping to launch erm in the summer of next year, in the summer of 2020.Ìý We've already err been working with the RNIB erm 'Action on Hearing Loss' and 'Age UK' and 'Ability Net' on our proposals.Ìý And we're hoping to be able to work further with them on some user testing as well.

Ìý

Peter White

Well when you say 'user testing' will you be trialling for visually impaired people?

Ìý

Liz Reynolds

That's right yes!

Ìý

Peter White

Individuals not just talking to organisations!

Ìý

Liz Reynolds

That's right.Ìý Yes that's right, yes.

Ìý

Peter White

Liz Reynolds from Digital UK!Ìý And if you'd like to take part in that consultation, you can find it online at www.digitaluk.co.uk/policy/consultations and there's more information on our website.Ìý

Ìý

Next week, err we're going to be looking at education amid ongoing concerns about the funding available to meet the needs of visually impaired children.Ìý So if your experiencing problems getting your blind or partially sighted child or young person into the school you think most appropriate, whether it's a mainstream school or one providing special education, do get in contact with us.Ìý You can leave a voice message for us, that's 0161 836 1338 or you can email intouch@bbc.co.uk.

Ìý

Now the news on last weeks' programme that Scotland was introducing a ban on pavement parking was generally welcomed.Ìý But Andrew Curry questions the idea of a blanket ban, because of the state of many roads.Ìý He says "Many people park on the pavement badly but they do it for a reason, it's an offence to prevent passage along a public road.Ìý If no drivers ever parked on the pavement" he says, "They'd be serious implications, particularly for larger emergency vehicles.Ìý Simply prosecuting pavement parking is not a solution".Ìý And Gareth Payne makes a similar point, he emailed to say "Where I live in South Wales, the roads are so narrow that the only way for cars to pass along the road is for vehicles to be parked on the pavement.Ìý The local residents walk along the centre of the road as the only safe way to get along the street".Ìý Gareth says, "Sadly, until the infrastructure changes, it won't be possible to implement the Scottish law as to do so here, would mean excluding parked cars from our street and in doing that, prevent my neighbours with mobility impairments from getting to their homes".Ìý

Ìý

Well however we navigate our way around those parked cars and all the other unforeseen hazards like overhanging bushes and unprotected holes, the chances are that despite the march of technology, most of us who venture out alone still do it either with a white cane or a dog to guide us.Ìý But will a new attempt to combine old technology with new change the landscape?

Ìý

Our reporter Lucy Edwards has been finding out.

Ìý

Lucy Edwards

You may have seen many articles floating around social media, featuring the new high tech Smart cane named 'WeWalk'.Ìý Everyone who is sighted on 'My Feared' is really excited that a cane can tell you where to go and warn you where obstacles are in front of you!Ìý But will blind people actually use it?Ìý Let's give it a go!

Ìý

I've got the 'WeWalk' package in front of me.Ìý I've just opened it and da, da, dah here's the 'WeWalk'.Ìý It's triangular in shape, about 30cms long, thinner at the top where you hold it and it's got a lovely grippable material.Ìý It's quite long for a handle and quite heavy as handles go, probably as heavy as a normal white cane is altogether just in the handle.Ìý You don't feel like you're gonna drop it.Ìý From the end where you hold it, you have vibration buttons, so you can feel the obstacles above waist height.Ìý You've got a touch pad and you've got an ultrasonic sensor and an LED light.Ìý On the back of the device, you've got a power button, a speaker and you've got a microphone.Ìý And also in the box is a white cane that you can attach you 'WeWalk' too, a charger, a bag and a wrist strap.Ìý It costs £400.

Ìý

Hello there, hi there. INAUD

Ìý

Jean Marc

Hello.Ìý Hi it's Jean Marc.

Ìý

Lucy Edwards

Oh hi Jean Marc.Ìý Lovely to meet you!

Ìý

Jean Marc

Lovely to meet you too!

Ìý

Lucy Edwards

I'm sitting just outside of London Euston on this crowded busy Friday afternoon.Ìý We've grabbed a seat just at the side to chat about the 'WeWalk' cane.

Ìý

Now sitting in front of me, is the co-founder and the R&D Lead Jean Marc.Ìý Now how does the 'WeWalk' cane work?

Ìý

Jean Marc

So 'WeWalk's a Smart Cane.Ìý It's this attachment, which has basically everything you'd find in a phone err the processor, a gyroscope, a compass an exometer.Ìý It attaches on top of any cane, so basically if you manage a white cane has a handle on top.Ìý We took off the handle and we put a 'WeWalk' so the super familiar experience you can use it when you want to use it.Ìý If you don't want to use it, it just turns into a normal cane.Ìý But when you do use it, you've got all these cool features.

Ìý

Firstly, you've got an ultrasonic sensor at the very front that vibrates to let you know there are upper body obstacles like tree branches or signs.Ìý But when connected to your phone and by Bluetooth you've got a touchpad as well, so you can control your phone, you can control Google Maps; speak to Amazon or Alexis straight from the canes.

Ìý

Lucy Edwards

And why is 'WeWalk' Smart Cane better than any other Smart Cane on the market, because there's lots' out there?

Ìý

Jean Marc

Yeah, well we're different.Ìý So we've got this open platform or organisations like Amazon, like Google and now working with Microsoft as well and there VI for good program to sort of make these visually impaired accessible custom applications that can be controlled straight from a users' cane and no one's definitely not done before.

Ìý

Lucy Edwards

And why do all those features help visually impaired people in a busy environment such as this one?

Ìý

Jean Marc

Well I can tell you from personal experience and from our co-founders personal experience as well because he's visually impaired that it's just so many mobile applications, whilst there are some amazing ones out there like Planscra and Soundsgate.Ìý Most just aren't that accessible and you end up holding your phone on one hand where it's just super cumbersome, you've got your cane in the other and you've got so many busy environments and you've got to look where you're going it's just its not great!Ìý And we just want to simply that.

Ìý

Ìý

Lucy Edwards

And you're saying your transforming the way that people use canes and the canes experience, but why are there so many blind and visually impaired people out there still going to their trusty old long white cane that is their trusty stead, why is this still the case?

Ìý

Jean Marc

It's because it works.Ìý It has to be said it's so basic it doesn't do much, but what it does it does well.Ìý And what it does is give you literally detection of obstacles that are right in front of you on the ground like steps.Ìý Having your cane is better than nothing.Ìý There's so much room for improvement and it's that improvement hasn't come and there's no choice, it's not like we're competing with anyone, it's just literally no one has thought 'Okay, maybe this white cane that's literally a stone age technology maybe we can build up on that'.Ìý And I think that's really the reason why the visually impaired have relied on it, cos there's no other option.

Ìý

Lucy Edwards

I'm back home to test 'WeWalk' in my local area on my familiar routes.Ìý And I'm just going to put it together.Ìý I'm gonna put the head onto the actual cane, so I'm just going to open my cane.Ìý I'm just gonna screw the 'WeWalk' device onto it.Ìý A tiny bit fiddly, but once it's on, it's on!Ìý So on the back of the device is the power.Ìý I'm just gonna hold it for 3 seconds.Ìý Ooh it's vibrating made a Mario Cart noise!Ìý I'm gonna go on the 'WeWalk' app, which I've downloaded on my Smartphone.Ìý

Ìý

So it's using Bluetooth to connect 'WeWalk'.Ìý I'm gonna allow Bluetooth.Ìý Ooh.Ìý So it instantly found the cane, it's still vibrating though; it must be using a lot of battery.Ìý

Ìý

So the 'WeWalk' has two modes, a standalone mode and a connected mode.Ìý In standalone, you can do obstacle detection, battery notifications and the time so a bit more simplistic than the connected mode, which I will demonstrate some features of when it's connected to the app.Ìý It is a bit more intuitive and gives you quite a lot more notifications on where you are, Google Maps, you can connect it to your Alexi or that good stuff.Ìý

Ìý

Okay we're outside.Ìý Now I've just walked up the pavement a little bit next to a busier road and we're gonna test out the Google Maps integration on this app, so you have to actually access Google Maps from inside the 'WeWalk' app.Ìý And it says mine's been enabled.Ìý Doing this on the go is quite complicated and there's a lot to think about.Ìý If I'm thinking about the cane and all of the obstacles on the ground and then thinking about vibration from the 'WeWalk' and then thinking about my IPhone as well, it's all slightly brain overload, but I'm sure you may be able to get used to it.Ìý The vibration is actually quite intuitive, so when I'm coming up to cars and things, it is vibration and when I swipe my cane left and right, its telling me what's an obstacle above waist height.Ìý So I'm just gonna start typing to search location, so I'm just going to put 'Tesco'.Ìý 'Tesco' other shops are available, but I know that that's near my area.Ìý Done!Ìý Let's, let's get on the move. Ooh!Ìý After 15 metres turn, this is the cane talking now.Ìý I'm swiping on the touchpad to navigate Google Maps.Ìý Ooh that's quite quiet; I think its 900 and something turn right!Ìý See with all the car noise out here, I can't hear the 'WeWalk'.Ìý No, I really can't hear it!Ìý The 'WeWalk' touchpad does not work when you've got gloves on and it's not recommend to have the 'WeWalk' in extreme cold temperatures and extreme heat, so don't come out in the freezing cold minus temperatures with it, because it could wreck your handset.Ìý Yeah I'm not sure how I feel about that to be honest, because the only reason these days, I do actually use my white cane is when Olga isn't able to work due to snow because she can't see the kerbs.Ìý With the 'WeWalk' handle on my normal white cane here, makes it really difficult for me to feel the different textures cos the hands a bit more bulky so I would say its slightly, only slightly if I'm being picky impairs your ability to feel the ground.Ìý Yah, ooh that's Tesco but to be honest, I don't know whether that was just my cane skills and Google Maps or the 'WeWalk'.Ìý I think for this cane user it is just a bit too much information for me now, maybe after a few days of using it I would tell you something different but because I'm used to my old ways with my guide dog and my cane, I think I'm gonna stick to those just for now!

Ìý

Peter White

Lucy Edwards.Ìý

Ìý

And that's it for today from me, Peter White, Producer Lee Kumutat and the Team, goodbye!

Ìý