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This week The Verb is in an experimental mood with guests Sheila Heti, Philip Davenport, Steven Hall and Serafina Steer.

Sheila Heti's latest book 'How Should a Person Be' (Harvill Secker) is a 'novel from life', mixing transcripts of recorded conversations, emails and prose. Sheila explains some of the unusual techniques she employed in writing the novel, and the dangers of using your friends in fiction.

Philip Davenport has edited an anthology of Language Art, The Dark Would (Knives, Forks and Spoons Press). The Dark Would asks questions about living and not living, about the physical and the non-physical. Philip fills us in on the history of Language Art and visual poetry and Ian and Philip share their favourite work including Richard Long's circular hour long walk on Dartmoor and an the mystery of Caroline Bergvall's blanked out pages.

Steven Hall has just been announced as one of Granta's Best Young British Novelists 2013. His debut novel is the innovative Raw Shark Texts (Cannongate), An extract from Steven's Work in Progress novel, 'The End of Endings', has just been published in Granta's Best of Young British Novelists 4. Steven discusses his attraction to complex forms, how his new novel will push the boundaries even further, and most importantly, why part of the book is upside down. Steven also adds to our library of 'Books That Don't Exist', documenting the tortured publishing history of the hotly tipped 'Rice Cup Moon'.

Serafina Steer spins stories from the strings of her harp, and sings songs studded with acerbic wit. Serfina performs 'Night Before Mutiny and 'The Moths are Real' from her latest album 'The Moths Are Real' (Stolen Recordings), and tells us her influences, from Sea Shanties to Borges.

Produced by Jessica Treen.