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What
do you reckon to the 'gays only' policy of some Village clubs? Should
gays have their own clubs or should straights be allowed in? What
about Mardi Gras? Has Canal Street still got the right vibe?
>>>
From
Riadionne in Manchester -
Can I just say, I am apalled! I have just moved to Manchester and
was shocked to be refused entry from 'essential' for not looking gay
enough. To make it worse the man who was working on the door then
asked me to prove that I was gay! I thought it was disgusting that
someone thinks that they have the right to decide who is gay and who
is not. Simply because I don't look what HE considers to be gay looking
I get refused entry, WHY? Can someone please explain to me why? I
have never before been asked to prove my sexuality, are these the
times that we are living in? Is there now a dress code for the average
gay person?
From
H in Leeds
I'm an 18 year old Bi female and I think that it's perfectly alright
for straight people to come to The Village as long as they respect
the gay majority. I don't agree with the view that it should be a
'them and us' type of scenario as that defeats the entire purpose
of equality for the gay community. Gay people are no different from
straight people so they deserve the equal respect. Since The Village
is predominantly gay, the straight people who do visit should understand
the gay lifestyle and not just use The Village because they believe
it is a safer place. I agree with Andy from Manchester that society
has been programmed to resent the gay lifestyle and the only way gay
people will get true equality is when society changes. Admitedly that
won't be an over-night thing but I urge anybody reading this who has
a child for them to not shy away from teaching thier child about the
gay lifestyle. Children should be taught that homosexual sex is just
the same as hetrosexual sex in that it is an act of love between two
people. Why is it that when we are taught sex education in school,
we are only taught about the hetrosexual side o! f things? surely
in this day and age a change is needed? I remember my own experience
of sex education, several weeks of lessons were taught on hetrosexual
sex yet when someone did spark up the courage to ask about homosexual
sex, the teacher simply replied, "The anus wasn't meant for sex"
which I find degrading and wrong. If this is what the new generation
of children is being taught, is it any wonder that homosexuality is
still seen as wrong by a high percentage of straight people? The Village
is a place that allows gay men and women to be themselves without
fear of violence from thuggish straights who believe homosexuality
is wrong. It is these thugs who spoil the hetrosexual reputation amongst
the homosexual community. As Andy says "you don't have to convince
the gay community that thier sexuality is fine, its the rest of society".
For the straight people who have wised up that the homosexual community
is normal and not something to be disgusted by, they should be welcomed
to The Village. I believe that The Village is living proof that hetro/homosexual
can be together without the need for any segregation, after all, banning
straights from The Village would be a step back in time for soceity
and with more and more people freely admitting that they are gay,
we need to look forward to a world where both communties can accept
each other for what they are, human beings
From
Cathy in greater manchester
My daughter and three girlfreinds went to gay village last night.
She is just back from Uni in Leeds Yes she is straight but went to
village three years ago with a gay freind and had a great time as
everyone was so freindly. However last night she was refused entry
at 5 bars and clubs and doormen were horrible to them. Cost them Β£30
in taxis
From
toby in doncaster
how's it going to cope with euro pride,it's hopless trying to get
a drink and move round on a regular mardigras, and how about the council
clearing cans/bottles and general rubbish every day of it,so we don't
fall over it like usual
From
Vampie in Manchester
Its normal for people who are straight to be curious and want
to gay clubs to see what all the fuss is about. People are afraid
of what they dont know. Its good for straights to go and have a gape,
then they can seee there nothing disgusting or unholy about it. Just
people who have different ideas and want to live their lives and enjoy
themselves without people judging them. Dave as a good Christian you
are against people being gay? What happened to accepting everybody?
And what about all those good holy priests who abuse little boys?
Its better to open and find a boyfriend, go and enjoy yourself together
than to be repressed and do things like that!
From
Ed in WIGAN
Well, if you lived in Wigan you would all appreciate the village.
Wigan isn't homophobic, rather homoless. Of course we are here just
not in the open , so to speak.Maybe the Lads of Wigan should support
a Gay venue in the town as oppossed to travelling every time.
From
Ben in Peterborough, Cams
I'm 17 nad have come out as bisexual for about a year now. Since I
can see things from both sides, I think a gay only policy is a bad
idea. This society is parisan enough as it is without making certain
groups exclusive. The only way to get rid of bigotry from some people
it to get rid of divisions and allow people from different orientations
to mix together freely, without feeling like its "them and us". iT
SHOULDN'T BE LIKE THAT. The village might present a chance to break-down
barriers.
From
Danny, Huddersfield
Re Andy. Hi! Thats a bit of my point really - why do people want to
be 'openly gay'? - I wouldn't place myself as a 'queen' or any other
label - While im one of the campest people I know - but don't make
a point of making everyone know it. This is the label people place
on themselves and this creates problems in the longrun - people place
these labels on themselves - so other people discriminate against
them coz they want to be 'openly gay' or whatever label that they
want. People should be themselves - dont try to adopt a package out
of a box. I do think, however, that growing up in str8 areas and having
ignorance in schools makes us all a bit repressed - and makes us more,
well wanting to be openly gay later on; And I have been there, but
i am from 2 minorities - and find people labelling themselves and
segregating themselves distasteful coz I see people from one minority
who do label themselves end up with other people labelling them -
those that don't! - dont!! Though I am attracted to guys that do -
but thats me!!! Oh, Dave from Cheadle Hulme, how do you know if these
clubs are distastful or not- unless youve actually been there - and
what were you doing logging into the village website anyway? I think
you may be afraid of who you are. Know yourself and you will be a
lot happiier. xxx
From
Andy, Manchester
Re Danny's comment...... "I think wed all be outraged at being refused
entry into a dominantly 'straight' club - so why should it be acceptable
the other way round? " WE ARE rufused entry to str8 clubs, by the
fact we are not able to be openly gay in them, without fear of verbal
and physical attack. The Media and society has LABELLED gays as being
perverse and allowing str8's into the village will do nothing to change
that. Many gays find it necessary to segregate themselves for a reason,
not out of a trivial whim.
From
james, manchester
I have to disagree! I'm gay myself but have many straight and gay
friends. My straight friends love going clubbing in the gay village
with me and my boyfriend and our gay friends. The love the atmosphere
and the friendliness of the village. To be honest if I had a girlfiend
I would probably prefer to take her out in the gay village where we
would have less hassle from obnoxious testosterone filled heterosexual
males u find elsewhere. My point being some straight male and females
are more attune to and actually prefare the gay environment. Just
like some gay male and females prefer the straight environment. We
should not be feel threatened by people of different sexuality uaing
our space 'the gay village' - that would be ludicrous and hypocritical.
If they love, respect and enjoy our space as all my straight friends
do! then what is the problem my friends!!! Dont descriminate difference!
but embrace and value it. It is only through this attitude that our
community can flourish as it should.
From
Steve, Manchester
The village has now grown into a commercial venture that is willing
to take money from anyone and everyone, ok this is business, but what
business are you trying to run. The spirit of the village has now
died. Being as I was in the Village 8 Years ago, when everyone knew
each other and all the clubs/pubs were clean and decent and str8 people
respected our place i feel ashamed to know the village today. Str8
people see it as a new playground, where they can come and have a
laugh at our expense, and being as this is the case the pubs and pubs
have pushed up the price of the drink. OK so a drink thats a little
more expensive in a smart classy bar is ok but to be charged 2.80
for a pint in a venue where your feet stick to the floor and guys
are shagging their girlfriends at the bar, i ask you. The gay village
was aptly named, now it should just be renamed the str8 playground.
Me and all my friends now drink in Deansgate Locks, here it may be
full of str8 people but the venues are cleaner, the people are often
much nicer and nobody really minds what you do, i quite often walk
hand in hand with my boyf. The venues should shape up and clean up
and return to some of the quality days of a few years ago, and maybe
a door policy should be enforced on the bars again. I have worked
in the village in the past on the doors of some of the clubs, and
was pleased to be allowed to reject trash from entering the club,
(personal dress sense is ok, but these people were drunk, and untidy
trash) this does not seem the case today. Having spoken to my str8
friends they agree totally to this and I am sure many others do too.
As for mardigras, don’t even go there!
From
Danny, huddersfield
I totally disagree. As a minority group - we have gay clubs which
is great - but gay only is in a way like having straight only or white
only or any segregated group. It not only teaches people to segregate
themselves and alienating themselves which causes more problems for
the rest of us. Basically segregation encourages people to place a
label on themselves and not see the whole world around them. When
people put a label on themselves, it encourages others to label them
- encouraging the case for 'gay only clubs' all over again. A viscious
circle. I think wed all be outraged at being refused entry into a
dominantly 'straight' club - so why should it be acceptable the other
way round?
From
Matthew, Wigan
Let's hope Canal Street is around until society wakes up. I walked
my b/f back to the tram stop at Picadilly Gardens the other night
and as soon as we arrived we got confronted by a load of scallys (appropriately
armed with a hammer - which was nice) because we were a gay couple.
Canal Street may make us feel like we live in a ghetto, but I'm sorry
guys, I'd rather do that than be terrified and helpless. The police
arrived and were very nice about things, but I still felt like crap.
It may be defeatist, but the ghetto it is for me from now on.
From
Jony in manchester
What is so wrong with the gay village in Manchester? fair enough,
there is violence, drunken people, drugs, crime, but its a party area!
u get the same in say blackpool, so long as you look after yourself,
have a good time then surley theres nothing to worry about, lets hope
canal street is here in the next twenty years!
From
Tim in Manchester
If The village were not there we would miss it.Last Mardi Gras however
I suddenly turned into a tourist attraction when a straight scouse
girl insisted on taking my photo!Most Mardi Gras have been more like
"The Salford Precinct Reenactment society"......Despite what some
may claim this is a rough town.At the end of the day the yobs ,gangs
and drug sellers rule.You have to keep your head down and turn a blind
eye to so much now and I believe a lot less so on the "Straight "
scene.I am selective wherever I go,gay or straight.Recently had a
great night with BF and straight friends at "Ascencion".Essential
"is no fun now.It is getting rough and very straight.I am lucky and
live in a leafy suburb with accepting neighbours and have a profession.I
am under no illusions what it is like for many in some of the estates
etc...
From
Matthew in Wigan
Pray, pray, Dave. Not for us, but for yourself. We're happy with who
we are, yet you don't seem so jolly - having to tell others how to
run their lives. Go get a life of your own, then come back and tell
us how good it is. Cos it wont be.
From
Andi in Manchester
hi there again, been a while! well having talked to a few of my friends
over a few bottles of wine over the past few days we have come to
a conclusion about the village. as much as we all like the chill out
bars the few (hollywood, union, new york) party bars where you have
a a dance to some camp/poppy fun music are in shoprt supply and generally
looked down on. why is it we are all trying to move away from a stereotype
when it is so popular? my friends and i think its about time the village
went gay agan with a vengence. then no-one would complain therer are
too many straights coz they wouldnt like it and it would be how i
used to remember it and be fun again, xx
From
Scott in Manchester
i think canal street is great although I also have my reservations.
for a village it really does lack in that sense of friendship and
support. I heard a story recently about a boy who had come out at
14 and hit the gay scene in manchester. at 19 he contracted HIV and
had no knowledge about what the virus did and what its consequences
are. The gay village consists of a few bars and a few clubs that are
all eager to take our money. What it lacks is support and communication.
A little magazine supported by the village businesses and (us) the
"gay community" plus more effective awareness raising programmes aimed
specifically at the "newly" gay wouldn't go amiss! mardi gras was
excellent last year and was the best pride event that i have ever
been to. This collaborative working should happen more often and we
should aim at having a manchester gay group that works with the city
council to ensure that there really is a gay community. gday! x
From
Natasha in Manchester
Most of my friends and myself are straight, but we like going to the
village- and why shouldn't we. Clubs outside of the village aren't
labelled "straight" clubs, gay people are welcome there too, in my
opinion not allowing straight people into a gay club promotes prejudice
towards straight people. Most arguments in support of people being
gay are based on the idea that we are all the same and not put up
prejudiced barriers and segregate different groups.By allowing people
into a club purely based on their sexual preference it implies people
only go out to pull. We don't go out just to "pull". We go out to
have a laugh.
From
KACI in Wigan
the thompson should definatly be on the list of clubs
From
Duncan in Manchester
There is a need for some pubs/clubs to feel safe to gay people, especially
people coming to terms with their own sexuality. Not only phisically
safe, but safe in the knowledge that they can start to understand
what it means to be part of the gay community without bumping into
friends/work colleagues, before they are ready and able to discuss
their sexuality openly. I know that when I first came to the villiage,
I only went to venues where I thought the mainly gay policy would
mean that I was safe in this way. I now visit the villiage without
a thought, and think it is importnat that we have mixed venues to
promote integration and gay awareness and tolerance throughout society,
but it is important to retain a few places for those who want or need
to be in a totally gay space.
From
Shaun MC in Manchester
RE.DAVE,CHEADLE HULME. WHAT ARE YOU DOING ON THIS WEB PAGE?YOU
SAID YOU WANTED TO FLATTEN THE VILLAGE!!!!!!!!!BUT YOU HAVE NOTHING
AGAINST GAYS?WERE NOT ASKING FOR YOUR APROVAL(GOD).IF YOU COME TO
THE GAY!VILLAGE(HOPE THAT YOU DONT)PLEASE REMEMBER US GAYS TOLERATE
YOU LOT,NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND!!!!!!!!!STAY IN CHEADLE HULME PLEASE!!!!!!
From
Shaun MC in Manchester
this subject is getting very boring!!! dont worry the straights
they will get fed up in the end,we should be looking to the future,getting
on with our unique gay lifes.note for the editor"please change the
webpage,we should be promoting euro pride 2003!!!!!!!!!does everone
know its coming,i think not."and remember bars in the village that
try to be straight always fall flat on there face,people under estisimate
the pink pound!venues like this are dead during the week,i wonder
why!
From
Andy in Manchester
Mark , i also sent in mail condeming what the religious homophobe
said, and also questioning the editors wisdom on allowing it to be
printed, as i beleive it to be an incitement to hatred, would the
editors have allowed someone to say "they will pray for their souls'
because someone was BLACK???
From
Tom in Stockport
i love the village it is the best st in the i know all the pepole
r nice to chat to i love it so much dave for Cheadle Hulme is not
right it is a good thing to have some where for gay men and women
to go i will keep comeing down rock on village u r the best
From
Ed in Manchester
Regarding Daves 'comment' from Cheadle Hulme; You are contradicting
yourself because clearly God did create Adam and Steve, as well as
Adam and Eve. If God's so against homosexuality then why did he make
people gay? I think Canal St is great, but a new superclub is what's
needed to bring it all together a bit more.
From
mark in Manchester
dave in cheadle you should be ashamed of yourself. i did write a rather
stronger message to you but the censors saw fit not to let it be posted,
wonder whos side they are on then. i mean its all well and good to
let someone like you to post such filth whilst knowing that someone
like ami is reading these messages but for a mere homosexual as me
to retaliate gets censored. bravo you free thinking so called censors,
after all they do say they want to hear from the gays and lesbians
regarding their thoughts on the gay village but hey why not let a
hetrosexual post some homophobia and then censor the homosexual bet
you censor this too
(We're not on anyone's side and are happy to post all the messages
we get so long as they are suitable for a message board that can be
read by anyone. We are also aware that some e-mails don't get through
to us at all - ED)
From
mark, manchester
message to ami please have strength you are not alone . im not sure
what you can do to stop the bullying . maybe you should contact the
gay and lesbian switchboard they will have numbers you could call
and talk to people who know how to deal with these issues all the
best to you my thoughts are with you.
From
OJ, Liverpool
I stopped going to the Village a couple of years ago after being particularly
disappointed by the rampant commercialism and barely disguised violence
surrounding Mardi Gras. I'd love to be part of a gay 'community',
but that's not what the Village is as far as I'm concerned. Are there
any places to go which aren't now overrun with straight clubbers?
From
johnathan in Beautiful Manchester
"Dave" in Cheadle Hulme - if you're quoting a Steve Coogan character
in order to back up your lame and somewhat confused point then I'm
afraid the joke is very much on you. PS Canal Street is FAB!!!! We
need a new, stylish big club to replace Paradise Factory though. Essential
is ok but I think whoever decorated it must be blind, lacking in taste
and be visiting from the 80s. (NOT a good thing).
From
Lisa H in Manchester
Straight people should not be allowed in the village, they don't
call it gay for nothing and why should people like that come in our
community and cause trouble, i feel strongly about this
From
robbie in sydney, australia
Hey everyone! I am thinking of Moving to Manchester from Sydney!
What u reckon? Is it a cool place to live from a guy guys point of
view?
From
Dave in Cheadle Hulme
I think they should all be bulldozed because the clubs on Canal
Street drag down the surrounding areas. As a Christian I am dead against
any form of homosexuality and all these horrible 'gay bars'. HOWEVER,
and this is what the modern church fails to point out , is that I
have NO HATRED against homosexuals themselves - people have a right
to practice what they wish. I think the words of Steve Coogan describe
it best, when as Alan Partridge he says, "God created Adam and Eve,
he didn't create Adam and Steve". I pray for your souls
From
Martin in Manchester
heh just looking back I've realised probably half of what I said
didn't apply, gay women get bullied a lot different to the guys =\
it's a total different attitude for some reason, I guess what I said
could work on some people, but works better for gay guys really due
to the fact that the homophobic guys see it as 'disgusting' rather
than gay women who they see as a cheap turn on. What I said at the
end still stands though, it's not forever, and you will get out of
it! g'luck again.
From
Martin Turner in Manchester
To Ami, the hardest thing to do is just ignore it, you should
try to talk to a teacher if its coming from specific people if its
just general predjudice then you just gotta try and realise that these
people are idiots and whatever they say to you they cant take away
from you what theyve got and they can't force you to be something
you're not, if you're happy with who you are then don't let anyone
else try and interfere with that, I escaped it about 6months ago,
it is hell, its just best to blank it must of the time, now and again
when i wanted to do something a bit more active, target the one whos
giving you the most grief 'the ringleader' it takes a lot of guts,
but basically when hes on his own, come on to him, sounds stupid,
but it doesnt half scare the crap out of them, worked for me on a
few occasions, can backfire sometimes, more likely to go wrong if
he's in a large group, but also that can work to your advantage cos
it causes most embarassment to ! the person giving you trouble. If
none of that works, remember, school isn't forever! You can be safe
in the knowledge that you'll escape it and get away from it while
these idiots probably end up with dead end low paid jobs, you'll have
the last laugh. Good luck with it. - Martin
From
Ami Kenyon, Ellesmere Park, Eccles
I have been gay for two years now. I am getting bullied, What can
i do?
From
Andy, Manchester
Just to pick up on a few points , Andi says "And we can also walk
through manchester and hold hands and no-one really notices ",of course
they notice, i've seen a couple of lads walk thru Manchester holding
hands , and in their wake people pointing and laughing, and a few
shouts of abuse. He also goes on to say , "Also with regard to the
whole 'once we are accepted thing', get over yourselves! so we are
not accepted everywhere, who cares? ", that comment is an absolute
disgrace, its attitudes like that, that perpetuate, institutionalised
biggotry and keeps the majority of gays living a secret life, if we
all had that attitude 30yrs ago, homosexuality would still be illegal.
I find it deeply offensive that a number of people in the gay community
have decided that we have come this far, and that its enough, why
has todays youth become so politically docile, where has the spirit
of the the political activists of the 60's and 70's gone, its thanks
to their e! ff! orts that we have the rights we have today, though
it still falls far short of what i find acceptable.
From
Mark in Manchester
bravo andi
From
George Brady in Manchester
As Manchester is holding Eurofest I hope there will not be the same
fiasco that happened at last years Mardi Gras over where people can
drink or not. TO THE ORGANISERS GET YOUR ACT TOGETHER NOW...
From
Andi in Manchester
okay well not looked at this for a while but going to wade in and
just make a quick few comments. The main one being have none of you
got more to your lives than the scene? I dont mean to offend but;
yes its somewhere to go where we can feel safe with little or no abuse,
but thats it. I have a bf and we go there because we like the music
and the bars/clubs, if we didnt we would go somewhere else. WE also
go to straight bars/clubs because we go where we want to. And we can
also walk through manchester and hold hands and no-one really notices
i dont think or if they do they dont show it. Just get on with life
and stop worrying about a few bars and clubs and who goes there, if
you have fun who cares who you are with?
From
Dan in London
The village is vile. It's a cliquey scene for fish too small to be
big anywhere else, but who find themselves too big for the backwaters
of Bolton. It's hideous. The only people wqorried about what it is
and what it was and what it could be are those too scared to venture
anywhere else. Accept it for what it is, a provincial city sidestreet
with a few bars. That's all it is.
From
Ivory Tower in Manchester
If the butch looking men stopped talking about 'who's had who' and
the camp queens stopped talking about 'who's had who' and the straight
women stopped talking about 'oooh, it's great. and we feel reeeeally
safe there, gays are great fun, my best freind's just come out' and
if the pubs served better beer and THE GAY COMMUNITY STOPPED THINKING
THAT BY MOANING they could elicit change, AND THAT BY DRESSING IN
JEANS FAR TOO SMALL FOR THEIR BIG GUTS AND THINKING THAT NOT WASHING
WAS ATTRACTIVE, AND THAT DENTAL HYGIENE WAS COOL, then, and only then,
would I come back to the Village (ghetto?) and consider paying the
prices. And, last point, taking E isn't smart - it'll kill you.
From
Sean MC in Manchester
after reading most of the comments,people are worrying to much about
staights in the village.end of the day it is the gay village,dont
stop kissing your boyfriend,do it more and more,if staight people
dont like what they see its tuff!!!!!!!be yourself in the village!we
get grief in alot of places,lets keep the village a place where we
can relax and be free!!!!!!!!!!!
From
Mark in Manchester
andy no its not broke :). well as for your last counteraction, as
you put it. firstly how can you say you class one form of discrimination
worse than another when , as you state the trauma is same for both,
could it be one form affects you?. secondly yes i agree how many people
wearing specs do get mugged or killed could it be that they are not
in a ghetto saying hey come and have a pop at us because guess what
" we are different". so ill say it once again until we stop acting
differently how can we exspect people to not think we are different.
its outrageous that you think you have the right to have a section
of a city to yourselves based on your sexuality. and before you say
it i also think its outrageuos for any group to think the same based
on beleifs , race, religion. why do you think the world is in the
state it is? because of people like you who insist on looking at the
outside world as demonic, and yes your points are valid regarding
a few thugs but not the whole of civilisation. open up the village
and welcome hetrosexuals the way we do each other. after all if we
dont we will still get attacked
From
Roy in Manchester
not beening to the village for sometome, me and my partner and some
friends decided to give it a go; and low and be hold we could not
get in to about a third of the pubs. the reason.......we where to
straight looking! and non of the door man would beleave that we where
gay. i am all for keeping the village gay... but at what expence?
From
Kris H, Manchester
If there is one thing you can say about Manchester's Village its this!
Last year when we thought Mardi Gras was being stopped by the council
we all got together to fight for it - and we won. It proved to people
that when we do it, we do it for the charities concerned and not the
business banter it has become in London. Manchester is back to how
it used to be ... a very close community. Whether we allow straight
people in or not is not a matter for debate. They know what they're
getting themselves into by being there and we should look upon it
as a bit of fun as we try to woo them :) Let's come together this
year and not only show them what Manchester's about but what we're
all like when Europride arrives in August!!! xxx
From
Andy, Manchester
Mark is your keyboard broke ? I,m not denying kids get bullied for
a variety of reasons, none of which should be tollerated, but can
you tell me how many adult individuals that wear specs, have been
attacked (or murdered) by adult gangs. The point is, the gang that
attacked this youngster, will most likely grow into adult biggots
and perpetuate their acts of hate and violence. I class bullying of
kids because of their race or sexuality more serious than other forms
of bullying, (though for the targeted individual its just as traumatic),
and should be stamped out with great force.
From
Adam, Manchester
Manchester has a great gay village but it can get a little dull. The
bars tend to live up to the 'pop' culture stereotypes you would associate
with gay culture. I certainly don't mind pop and the fashion, the
music... that goes with it, but it would be nice to have a few extras.
Some live bands, a coffee bar, basically a wider selection that would
appeal to a greater variety of interests. I think the culture in the
village; that being the one where the 'bears' hang here and the 'queens'
dance there is really caused by the mundane popular theme that runs
through the village. It can sometimes get a little unfriendly because
of this I find. I'm a student, want to chat with everyone and I find
older people tend to stay clear, because they associate me with the
young crowd that are pill-popping and "mincing" their way around essential.
More choice would surely break divides, and we need to get rid of
them. There are already too many in the world, without adding to them
in our own little community. KILL POP!
From
MARK, MANCHESTER
OK ANDY THE NEXT TIME SOME KID AT SCHOOL GETS PICKED ON FOR YEARS
BECAUSE HE WEARS GLASSES PERHAPS HE SHOULD GET HIMSELF A GHETTO OF
GLASSES WEARING PEOPLE AND LIVE THERE FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE. HMMMMMMMMMMMM
From
Andy, Manchester
Re:Jillybean's post "you go for a drink not to use as a knocking shop
", we are not talkin about a knee trembler against the wall here,
i'm talkin about the very basic signs of affection , a welcome kiss,
a hug, holding hands, the things that str8 people take for granted
are not tollerated by most of society with same sex relationships,
also re your comment "whoever or whatever you are just be proud and
stuff everyone else " ... if only it was that simple !!! Perhaps you
should tell that to the young lad that performed ballet that was beaten
senseless by another gang of youths who i presume considered him to
be gay. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2636297.stm
Re: Richards comment, i agree 100%, i was just trying the more diplomatic
angle.
From
Roberto, Warrington
i love the village , i really do .its strange because it changes so
much so quickly but at the same time its the same place with the same
people . i see alot of people are agreeing with the "village is for
gays" . iunderstand thisbut my isolating yourselves arent you just
provoking homophobia . i read one post by a guy who said he didnt
like being gorped at like a goldfish in a bowl. but can you understand
that by dressng in a small ponk latex tshirt, leopard skin thong and
knee high boots with a sparlky cowboy hat and a water pistol that
people are going to look at you. since Queer as folk people have wanted
to see what they are missing out on. you must admit its like no where
else. but all im trying to say is , it has taken so long for public
mentality to get where it is regarding homosexuality now you want
top go messing things up by being isolated and secretive . this isnt
the 1900's . The point about being able to snog in Staright pubs and
clubs is v! er! y valid and the only reason you cant do it is becasue
of primate style hetrosexual men who think they have to do it. i think
its time each side grew up a bit . like i said this isnt the 1900's
and its certainly not a school palying ground. thanks.
From
Louise in sheffield
i recently went to canal street for the first time as a straight
woman and had one of the best nights out that i've ever had. I met
some new friends who, by the way couldn't care less if they are gay
or straight and would be totally gutted if the village was to become
gay people only. Also i think that this would be a perfect example
of discriminaton and predudice amongst society.
from
Jillybean in manchester
i have eagerly read everyones comments, quite a mixed bag of sorts
here. im 33 am "straight" the wording majority of you are using,married,
me i just class myself as a normal human being on my side and husbands
side we both have a nephew each who are "gay" another stereotype used
often, to me there just our nephew's as long as their happy we are,
both with considerate partners at the moment both lads really nice
and good for them. one lives in chester were the gay seen isnt much
cop apparantly and he comes down to mcr as much as possible, the other
local but only just come out. also the youngest of the two. my hubby
and i have long frequented the village even before we got married
cos the night life is far better and less hassle than the "straight"
clubs you get no agro and so on. and we intend to carry on visiting
with our without our nephews in tow, the younger was still a toddler
when we first started going, he has a problem, were on his 21st this
weekend but he cannot stand "straights" invading his territory as
he puts it not us. which has led to a few heated exchanges. so why
has he decided on all the family to go round the village if he is
opposed to "straights", his attitude beggars belief as far as im concerned,
im a broad minded as they come and live and let live is my motto.
a lot of you sure have tons of anger stashed up inside, as for comments
of "oh we'd never be allowed to snog in a "straight" pub, bless !!!
since when are pubs straight and gay labelled you go for a drink not
to use as a knocking shop, even me and the better half dont do tongues
deep in "normal pu! bs" whoever or whatever you are just be proud
and stuff everyone else !!!
From
Jordan in York
You people dont seem to realize how good you have it, My nearest big
city is Leeds the scene there is more of a Hamlet and less of a village!
and my home town has only 2 'gay' pubs it is lovely to go to canal
street every once in while and not be in a minority. i like the fact
that a few straight people who have no problem with us puffs are around.
I would rather have it that way than be made to go to a 'gay ghetto'
where gay people wont be any bother to straight people!!
From
Andy in Manchester
Mark , i'm putting forward my beliefs and the reasons behind those
beliefs, i have read your comments, and i've counteracted them with
my own, thats the whole point behind discussion and argurment. You
point out that i'm angry at being abused and discriminated against
from craddle to grave, dead right i am, i have every right to be.
That fact hasn't clouded my view of reality, and i'm sick of those
that cant remember why the village was initially set up, and those
initial reasons remain , and an influx of str8 people into the village
will not alter that. In an earlier post you asked me to be tollerant
of str8s on OUR scene, i suggest you concentrate changing the attitudes
of the majority towards us, after all , we are the victimized. Its
not up to me to ask you why you write what you do, dont expect prompts
from me, if you have points to make, make them, if others wish to
pick you up on them, thats their choice.
From
Richard in Manchester
The day I can kiss my boyfriend in a pub in Chapel Street, Salford,
is the day we should open up the Village to hetties. How come it's
the gay community that's supposed to do all the compromising and take
the lead? However, I'd happily welcome straight people if they showed
they were actively supporting lesbian and gay rights. They should
only be allowed in on the production of a Stonewall direct debit form,
a Friend of the LGF card or an OutRage! membership form. Not some
wishy-washy "of course I support gay rights" statement without any
real and active substance. And "some of my best friends are gay" doesn't
count.
From
mark in manchester
reply to andys comments. well i have to say andy throughout this
whole conversation i have found it difficult to bridge a gap regarding
our points of veiw on this issue. t seems you refuse to acknowledge
anything that i write . you just want to say rubbish etc. you have
completely misunderstood my points and you have not wanted to discuss
why i may think these things. it isnt any wonder that we will not
move forward. just for once let your anger go and see the whole picture.
it isnt just about you. and please dont tell me its not just you and
that you know lots of people who feel the same blah blah blah. i could
also say i know plenty of people who feel the same as me but what
would be the point. the thing is andy its not supposed to be some
kind of competition but a disscussion and not some pointless "poor
me exercise and oh by the way everyone i know feels the same as i
do". mark
From
Jez in Altrincham
Occasionally I hear of some straight bloke complaining or laughing
about going out in the Village and being hit on by a gay man. Many
visitors to the Village see it as either being a bit of a freak show
or (perhaps even worse), they like it beccause it makes them feel
cool. Of course there should be gay only places and policies in the
Village, otherwise we'll have to leave the place to the majority and
start all over again somewhere else.
From
Andy in Manchester
Re Sallys comment "If they want there own section in Manchester then
should the rest
of Manchester only be open for straight people? I think not, " Thanks
for calling us 'THEY' , theres an insight into your attitude straight
away, the fact is, the rest of the Manchester club scene isn't open
to gays , because gays cant be open about their sexuality without
suffering abuse , verbal and physical, i stated this in a previous
post. Re: Martins post, youv'e hit the nail on the head mate, and
i think most gays have a similar viewpoint.
From
Sally, Manchester
If they want there own section in Manchester then should the rest
of Manchester only be open for straight people? I think not, the Gay
Village is a brilliant place to go out and I don't bat my eyelids
twice at any gay people I just go there for the great music and great
atmosphere. If they were to make it for gay people only it would attract
more trouble and possibly more abuse. I say keep it as it is beacause
it is a popular place for everyone.
From
Martin in Manchester
I've "only" been on the Manchester scene for 10 years, but have a
few more behind me in other places and come from a small town that
had a smalltown attitude. I was used to quite severe homophobic abuse
there, including gangs of straight lads beating the gays up as they
came out of the one gay club each night, and trying to firebomb the
place. How good it was to get to Manchester with its vibrant (although
somewhat smaller) established scene....things have changed a lot over
the years, some of it our own fault and some of it not. I'd like to
think we could all (gay and straight) be a little more easy going
- they seem to be able to do it in other European countries & cities
(most noticably in Dublin for me recently) where the line between
gay/straight is blurred and no-one seems to care much. I'd far rather
things be like this in Manchester, and thought when new mixed bars
opened it would get better. Alas, this has not been as successful
as we'd all like. I've got plenty of straight friends who I'd trust
in a gay bar not to abuse anyone, but simply to get along with the
excellent atmosphere. But it's not those people we need to worry about
- it's the gangs of lads and never ending hen parties that spell trouble
for us. I used to prefer the solution of only letting in straights
with known gay people - at least there was some reassurance that they
were with someone gay and therefore less likely to be a trouble maker.
Problem is this would be difficult to police, given the size of the
scene. Hen parties are my particular hate (and I'm not alone, given
a number of published articles elsewhere on this subject). They are
rude, sometimes violent, and seem to cause more trouble than all but
the roughest of straight-lad gangs. Perhaps we should all do a little
(subtle) contribution in making them feel less than welcome every
time they invade our space to give them the hint they so desparately
need that they are simply not welcome in our small part of the huge
choice of Manchester nightlife.
From
Ricky (Dentist) Allen in Manchester
Why can't everybody live in harmony? Spread a little love people!
From
UrbanFairy! Salford, Manchester
Never mind all this straights in gay bars stuff! When is the bbc going
to bring out a 'gay' radio station? There seems to be one for every
other community! Think it would be very cool!
From
Shaun in Bolton
I live in Bolton and have to get a train to reach Manchester's "gay
village"..It is a bit of a tedious task but you know, its the Village!!
somewhere where I should be surrounded by people just like me!! But
its not like that anymore! I mean dont get me wrong I go to straight
places all the time but sometimes you want a bit of gayness,with being
gay and all! On a saturday night you look around canal street and
see straight couple after straight couple???whats that all about??Is
Deansgate closed on a Saturday night? I really dont understand it,
its not as though the Village is a cheap night out, far from it....
Ehhhhh well, theres nowt as queer as folk......come to think of it
theres nowt queer about the village!! :(
From
Nicholas in Manchester
I agreee,to a certain degree. There are plenty of bars but sometimes
it can be intimadating, the music can be overpowering, the only places
that do not seem to do that are Gai, and Tauras, there are a couple
of places to eat(What ever happened to Abbee R.I.P) but thta is by
the bye.
From
Andy in Manchester
First of all i am far from paranoid, i face the reality of the situation
everyday, and i dont just speak from my own personel experiences,
my comments reflect the lives of hundreds of others throughout the
world and many closer to home. My straight mates fully understand
my reasoning (most of them wouldn't frequent the gay clubs because
they find it 'too much'), i dont think i'm expecting too much ,asking
for an area to set aside for gays till the hetro world sees sense.
After all, other persecuted minorities have areas where they can relax
and meet like minded people, which i feel is essential when so many
gays have no where to turn to when trying to come to terms with their
sexuality and societies rejection of it. I'm not painting all hetro's
with the same brush, many of my str8 mates are very supportive, but
the fact is (born out by recent polls) the majority of the population
still thinks homosexuality is wrong, and when we have a large number
of str8 couples frequenting the village, then returning to work on
a Monday morning telling stories of 'THE FREAKS' they saw at the weekend,
this is far from conjusive to positive gay -hetro relations. As i've
posted before, it wouldn't be so bad if gay couples could frequent
str8 clubs and be open, ...but they cant. We have a very long way
to go before many gays can stop living 2nd lives, so until that time,
lets keep the safe haven, i'm not being unrealistic to expect that.
From
Paul in Manchester
In my lowly opinion, all gay pubs and clubs should be kept strictly
gay. Too many straight people are invading the gay persons' space,
which in turn makes less room for gay people. Don't know bout anyone
else, but I'd be uncomfortable going to a straight bar for fear of
being verbally attacked- I agree fully with Tom - see
other page.
From
mark, manchester
andy i hope you read shaun,s comments. Are you prepared to tell your
straight freinds they cant come to the village. please post your answer
as im interested to know.
From
mark, manchester
in reply to andy. interesting, but your missing the point . even if
you feel your paranoia came from not understanding why straight people
couldnt accept what you felt was normal ,it is clear that straights
have been conditioned to think its ok for homosexuality to be mocked
, which then in some cases spirals into homphobia. Its not enough
to make statements based on your own experiences you have to try and
understand whats going on with these people because lets face it a
whole society doesnt choose to hate , its conditioned to do that.
dont get me wrong im just as angry as you are about the injustice
of it all ,but one step at a time is the way forward and not hetrophobia.
so to conclude that " one step forward" is to be tolerent of straights
on the gay scene .
From
vicki, blackburn
I was out with friends in a striaight venue last year, as we were
dancing a girl came up behind my friend and called him a 'gay bd,
we just ignored her ignorant comments and did our own thing. Waiting
for a cab home it started throwing it down, we ran into the takeaway
to escape the downpour. There was loads of people in there and so
was this girl talking on her mobile phone, walking in she shouted
'the queers are here' and everybody just stared at us, i was quite
scared for my friend as the place was packed with drunk straight blokes
and you could cut the atmosphere with a knife, although that may be
tame to some gays who have experienced abuse, its the worst case of
homophobia ive witnessed, and as gay female it did put me off going
to straight clubs for a long time, not because im frightened, just
disgusted at how some hetrosexuals behave towards gays. Even on Canal
Street you get the forty something couples staring at you like your
a freak ! or! groups of straight women thinking they have the right
to rub there hands all over a gay guy. I agree things have changed
and we are more accepted, but theres still a big question of are we
respected? Not even in our own space most of the time.
From
Andi, Manchester
okay well having read what everyone has said since my last message
thers just a couple of things i wanted to add. Firstly you all go
on about how we cant be ourselves in straight clubs, well i used to
live in chester which has a very small gay scene and went to the roughest
straight club there and was snogging my boyfriend in the middle of
the
dancefloot with no nasty comments and only a few surprised, not nasty
looks. Also with regard to the whole 'once we are accepted thing',
get over yourselves! so we are not accepted everywhere, who cares?
does that mean its right to force ourselves into segregation as well?
surely if stright people go to the village, and if we actually venture
out and realise there are other places to go, the increased exposure
by gay and stright people to each other can only make things better
as people get used to mixing with each other more easily.!
From
Andy, Manchester
Reply to Marks comments , he writes "How many times when you were
growing up did you feel insecure ,paranoid and uncomfortable about
your homosexuality, if you are truthfull quite a few , well thats
because you were conditioned by society to veiw homosexuality as wrong
" Absolute rubbish, i felt insecure all the time at school, and i
still do now, its not because i've been conditioned to think its wrong
, its because the rest of society has been conditioned to hate and
riddicule gays to the point of inflicting physical violence on the
gay community. I knew there was nothing to be ashamed of by the age
of 10,i just could'nt understand others reaction to my sexuality that
felt so normal to me , also i was scared of peoples rejection. Via
the net i've spoken to many gay people throughout the world, and the
story is the same world wide, the emotional suffering kids go through
is a disgrace, and something that many never recover from. You dont
have to convince the gay community that their sexuality is fine ,
its the rest of society. Mark also writes, "As for hearing people
say they put up with gays because the village is a safer place
to be,
well good " ,again i disagree, gays have been used and abused long
enough, i dont want it perpetuated by starights 'USING' the village
for their own needs, whilst despising what we stand for.
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