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what language did the native britons speak when the romans invaded?

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  Posted by Elkstone (U3836042) on Monday, 17th October 2011

  do we know what the language was spoken by the britons who faced the romans? Did they make records? Or were there various regiönal languages/dialects by the different kingdoms/cheifdoms ? Was the language spoken in the south by the tribesmen who fought them, different to those in the midlands and north? Could anyone recommend any books on this subject?

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  Posted by marchog_du_aka_Stoggler (U14998493) on Monday, 17th October 2011

  Hi Elstone.
  
  It's thought that over most of southern Britain (even as far north as the Clyde-Forth area), a P-Celtic language was spoken, a precursor of modern-day Welsh (and Breton and Cornish).
  
  The earliest surviving Welsh was written (a number of centuries after the Romans had gone) in that is now northern England, and it is thought that this language (or more likely, number of related varieties) was spoken over all the areas that Old English would eventually take over.
  
  I don't think too much is known about the different varieties spoken by different tribes at the time of the Roman invasions, but considering dialects usually arise given enough time and geographical distance and/or boundaries, then I'm pretty sure there would have been geographical differences.
  
  We have little direct evidence of the language itself as the native Britons did not leave written evidence, but something of the language can be gleaned from the Celtic languages that arose from it:
  
  

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  Posted by Herewordless (U14549396) on Monday, 17th October 2011

  We have to look further than Britain- to Gaul, as many tribes (The Belgae, Parisi, etc) had close links with the Gallic tribes, some branches of whom had come to Britain before the Julian and Claudian occupations of Britain.

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  Posted by marchog_du_aka_Stoggler (U14998493) on Tuesday, 18th October 2011

  To add to my post of yesterday, there is a theory that in the south-east corner of Britain, a Germanic language was spoken, a proto-Old English if you will. This theory is controversial though and there is little evidence to back it up (plenty of Celtic-language-originating place names in Kent for example - Dover being the obvious one).
  
  Also, the language of the Picts in the north of the country is not known. There has been much speculation about it over the years, a Celtic language being most likely (I believe that P-Celtic (related to Welsh et al) is the favoured theory, but others have suggested a Q-Celtic language (related to the Gaelic languages). Frankly however, we don't know!

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  Posted by ArweRheged (U14720560) on Tuesday, 18th October 2011

  "Kent" is also a Brythonic word. It probably means "boundary".
  
  In answer to the OP, there is also a theory that P replaced Q across what is now England, Wales and bits of Scotland and that this process was still ongoing when Wome turned up.
  
  Q is the ancestor of the language which became Irish. A number of personal names appear to be Q - Boudicca, Venutius, Calgacus and Cartimandua amongst them. Other Q elements - such as *ob (river) are captured in Roman place names, which largely appear to have taken existing names and Latinised them. York is a fine example of this process. Eboracum is a Latinisation of Eboracon. "Ebor" comes from the Q word meaning "yew trees". The P word would've been something like "ywen".
  
  If this theory of linguistic displacement holds water, I think we may have to reconsider some of the theories about what "Irish settlement" of certain parts of mainland Britain really meant.
  
  Regards,
  
  A R

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  Posted by an ex-nordmann - it has ceased to exist (U3472955) on Wednesday, 19th October 2011

  Yes and no, AR. There are also grounds to believe that Q was replacing P in Ireland around the same time. The traditional names ascribed to the prominent tribes in iron-age Ireland are apparently and predominantly P.

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  Posted by ArweRheged (U14720560) on Thursday, 20th October 2011

  Thanks Nordmann - excellent stuff.
  
  Anachronistic imperialist dog that I am, I've only ever looked at this from the p.o.v of the British mainland. It appeared that Q was being pushed north and west and I wondered if that had something to do with successive waves of Celtic (sorry TP!) peoples and/or aristocracies in the Iron Age.
  
  Could you give us a bit more detail about the usage of P in Ireland?
  
  Best regards,
  
  A R

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  Posted by an ex-nordmann - it has ceased to exist (U3472955) on Thursday, 20th October 2011

  No one knows. The theory rests on the names of several tribes which seem to conform to P rather than Q. This has been variously taken to imply infilitration from Britain or that P was actually the indigenous language prior to an influx of Q (almost diametrically opposed theories, in other words). However both theories are contingent on third party interpretations of these names, such as the tribal list of Ptolemy which all appear to be P.

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