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Thera-Santorini
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Message 1.Β
Posted by henvell (U1781664) on Thursday, 24th June 2010
Deep sea core SL60 was extracted NE of the eastern extremity of Crete.Tephra was present between 20 and 57 cm,well above the original S1 sapropel at 75-105 cm.The tephra section has 2 distinct layers,with separation at core depth 28cm. Geochemical analyses to determine the origins of volcanic emissions generally compare glass fractions that have been cleaned.The SL60
samples,which are not homogeneous,were not cleaned.They are a mixture of ash and sediments.The lower tephra layer was unequivocally sourced to the Minoan eruption at Thera.
Some element concentrations in the upper layer [A1,Zr,Ba]are compatible with a Thera origin,but other elements concur with the background sediments.There is not sufficient diagnostic data to confirm or refute that the SL60 upper tephra layer was emitted during a second Thera
volcanic eruption,[C Slomp et al,2004].
Golhisar Golu is a small,shallow lake in the Lycian Taurus Mountains of SW Turkey about 400 km ENE of Thera.A tephra deposit was recorded at a depth of 245-275 cm in a lacustrine core,GHE.93-6.The peat directly under lying the tephra dates to ca 1628 BCE +/- 75a,calibrated,[Pierce et al,2002 and W Eastwood et al,2002].Geochemical
studies of the glass shards [Golhisar et al,1999] sourced the tephra to the Minoan Thera eruption.
Ca 252.5cm there is a discernable decrease in shard concentration,which broadly correlates with the SL60 core depth ca 28 cm.Between 251 and 252 cm there is a slightly elevated diatom concentration,that βmightβ represent bioavailable nutrient influx.It is unlikely that the upper
tephra layer is the result of secondary inwash, because the lowest total land pollen concentration occurs between 245 and 249 cm.
The above is not diagnostic proof,that there were 2 or more significant volcanic eruptions at Thera between 1690 and 1450 BCE,but it may provide food for thought. -
Message 2
Posted by TwinProbe (U4077936) on Thursday, 24th June 2010
Hi Henvell,
Sometimes I think you will have to temper your posts to the shorn lamb! Not all of us are as familiar with sapropels as yourself!
By the way, and before I forget, some several months ago you asked about the Old Scatness Broch site report. I'm glad to say that volume one of the Old Scatness excavation monographs has now been published, and was officially launched in Shetland on 14th June. The full price of the volume is Β£45 plus p&p. Copies are available directly from Shetland Amenity Trust on 01595 694688. The reference for the volume is: Dockrill, S.J., Bond, J.M., Turner, V.E., Brown, L.D., Bashford, D.J, Cussans, J.E. and Nicholson, R.A. 2010. Excavations at Old Scatness, Shetland Volume 1: The Pictish Village and Viking Settlement. Lerwick: Shetland Heritage Publications.
The eruption of Thera, the Aegean's only volcano, must have been one of the largest eruptions in human history, perhaps the largest. Archaeological evidence reveals a flourishing Bronze Age society which the eruption totally destroyed. There is ample evidence for resultant tsunamis on the north coast of Crete; these and the ash fall from the eruption must have devastated, though they did not destroy, the BA Minoan civilization. In many of the eastern Mediterranean legends: pillars of fire, floating islands, Talos and his ichor, and possibly even Atlantis, we seem to see fragments of that catastrophic event.
Tephra is a general term for fragments of volcanic rock and lava regardless of size that are blasted into the air by explosions or carried upward by hot gases. Volcanic ash (the smallest tephra fragments) can travel hundreds to thousands of kilometers downwind from a volcano. In the case of Thera much of this ashfall naturally occurred over the sea. Micro-tephra are vitreous particles some 20-80 microns in size which can be extracted from soils or muds by flotation techniques. Micro-tephra can be chemically identified as to the volcano that gave rise to them (usually by plotting Mg against Ti concentrations) and sometimes to a specific eruption. In an attempt to βdateβ the eruptions accurately microtephra are being identified in terrestrial varve lakes (like Lake Monticcio, Italy) or in marine sediments. Tephra are also locatable in Greenland ice cores.
Such research has not always given the expected results. Tephra in ice cores dated to around 1628 BC were presumed to come from Thera until chemically they were shown to have originated with an Alaskan volcano. But there are problems with microtephra chronology. The vitreous particles are subject to post-depositional chemical change, and may move physically in sediments. It is interesting that the tephra from Golhisar Golu lay under peat of essentially this date. Were these tephra chemically identified as coming from Thera? Of course there is absolutely no reason why there shouldn't be more than one volcanic eruption in the same year, and I think Vesuvius 'went off' in the Bronze Age too.
Kind regards,
TP -
Message 3
Posted by Binky (U4657795) on Friday, 25th June 2010
Fri, 25 Jun 2010 13:53 GMT, in reply to TwinProbe in message 2
I think that you'd both enjoy 'Fire in the Sea' by William Friedrich (or could be Walter - can't remember).
It's a laymans scientific book with lots of geology etc ( not the usual fringe Atlantis enthusiasts theories) and relates the volcanic history of the area. Thera had one of the largest - if not the largest - volcanic explosions in history. -
Message 4
Posted by TwinProbe (U4077936) on Friday, 25th June 2010
Thanks Binky, I'm game.
TP -
Message 5
Posted by islanddawn (U7379884) on Friday, 25th June 2010
"The eruption of Thera, the Aegean's only volcano,"
Not quite TP. There is the island of Milos which last erupted in the year 140 but the volcano is still bubbling away below the surface. The island of Nisyros, is another which last erupted in 1888 and Thera, of course whose last eruption was in 1950.
If that is not enough to be going on with there is a string of some 20 submarine volcanic cones extending NE from Thera. The largest of which, Kolumbo last erupted in 1650, creating a tsunami when the volcano colapsed into its caldera. The crater rim now sits about 10m below the sea surface and is also still active. -
Message 6
Posted by TwinProbe (U4077936) on Friday, 25th June 2010
Thanks ID; I'm happy to be corrected by local knowledge.
Best wishes,
TP -
Message 7
Posted by Nik (U1777139) on Friday, 25th June 2010
Correct islanddown. To be noted that this line of volcanic activity is actually the very same of the Italian volcanos of Vezuvio, Etna, & Stroboli. It is the bow-formed end of the European tectonic plate which is being hit and pushed down by the African plate.
The Aegean volcanic activity is as much as alive as the south Italian one, ony that it made less big titles in recent history (i.e. post-1000 B.C.). Yet in Thera, it has already managed to form two little islands which are of course the beginning of the process of re-forming the pre-eruption round-shaped Thera. The first little island (Palaia Kammeni = old burnt) was formed in mid-Roman times and the second (Nea Kammeni = new burnt) formed merely 400-500 years back if I remember correctly, thus being one of the geologically most recent lands in Europe. -
Message 8
Posted by henvell (U1781664) on Friday, 25th June 2010
G'day Twin Probe,
Mega thanks for the information on Scatness.My wallet will take another hammering.Chemical analysis definitely established that the tephra was from Thera.Under water research identified a number of submerged volcanoes proximal to Thera.
Cheers,
Bob -
Message 9
Posted by Prof Muster (U14387921) on Tuesday, 6th July 2010
ABOUT Dating LAVA- Flows in Ancient Archaeology,
I have seen Lava-flow maps of the Vesuvius arears and Naples, and Thera-Affluent-lava flow maps as of the affluent silt-maps of the INDUS river cone
Question is whether these stratigraphic lava flow data-charts, can help us sort out the earliest evidence for human habitation during and after, dates for lava flow/ giant eruptions?
Ancient history CANONs for Crete dictate that the First, Minoans entered Greece/Crete in 3.500 bc, the invasion of Mykenaeans were 1650 bc and the Dorians appered around 1200 bc.
OFFICIAL CANON, for greek invasion dates:
3.500 / 1650 / 1450 / 1200-bc, supposedly introduced foreign invadors in Greece/Attica, after major eruptions of Santorini/Thera.
DEVIANT CANNON, of greek settlement dates,
However amateurs and historians around Dr.Velikovsky's new revised egyptian-Chronology
have found out that these Minoans were originally the Mineans settlers with the Punician Princess Europe.
She arrived from ADEN/ Asir in South Arabia by boat through an earlier unblocked Suez-canal straight from Aden to Athens, which City is named after Aden= Athe-ini. anyway, in the exact year 1055 bc.
The SEA-PEOPLES also called Myceanians, of 1198/1200 bc never existed
They were just Persian invaders with persian feathered caps, by Satrap Pharnabasos and Iphicrates in 380-340 bc under Pharaoh Ramesses-3, whose official Date of 1200 bc is a fake.
The DORIAN? Spartan invadors were egyptians
led by the Sons of Heracles.
Heracles himself was according even to Herodotus- an Egyptian, to Dr.V. he was none-other than Gen./King Horemheb who's faked date of 1350-1200 bc
Dr.V changed/corrected to: 850-800 bc.
My contention is that the Great Thera eruption ending the Minoan civilisation was in 1055 bc and another 200 years later in 855 bc prompted the Dorian invasion.
These Dorians seem to have been Greek-mercenaries in the service of Egypt.
Likewise the Andes is supposed to have been formed in 8.000.000 years bc, but the raised seafront village of Titicaca only pre3dates to 1.055 bc.
The Himalay mountains seem to hve been formed 20.million years ago but the Tops that were eroded and now form the sub-marine Indus river-siltcone were from the late-Quarternary period e.g. 8.000 or 855 bc.
Conclusion,
19th-Century geologists in their popular shortened media works have givven the fake impression that the raising of the Andes and Hy7malay mountains
occurred at the same time of their orogenic birth millions of years ago, whilst infact these ancient seabottoms were raised geologically quite recently
Better stil the ancient indians and even tghe Greeks at Troy were able to describe the raising of the Andes and the Hymalay because they were tyhere and witnessed it describing these events as the WAR of the GODS and them rausing one Mountain upon oneother, and NOT as fiction.
Sincerely,
Prof Muster,
Delft Univ.Holland dd. July 2010 -
Message 10
Posted by Prof Muster (U14387921) on Thursday, 8th July 2010
Anyway
My point was that Eratosthenes in 250 bc, made a Fake Mapover of Europe for punician propaganda purposes, and gave unwittingly south arabian names from Herodotus map of Arabia( dd 500 bc.) to present Europe.
That's why dilligent atlantologists and even the misguided Greeks themselves kept looking for Atlantis in Greece or There-abouts.
The FAQ question would be:" hasn't anyone else published the Fake map of Eratosthenes map of Herodotus make over of the map of Europe in 250 bc ?
No because the ancient Mapmakers were not aware of it or took it for granted, now I was frequently asked for Proof, buty when given this was not considdered satisfying by the Official canonrules.
The Date of the LAST great-Thera explosion before Christ, should be 855 bc NOT 1200 bc because THAT is a fajked date made by the historians as a general date to piece not existing history together ( Quote Dr.Velikovsky in his book: ' Peoples of the Sea 1971.) -
Message 11
Posted by prof_muster (U14549653) on Monday, 12th July 2010
A message appeared in the Science magazine' NATURE' in 1990, where a certain publicity-geology-professor ' Guptha' issued Photo's of Hymalay mountain stratigraphy
by which he dated the forming-period of Fossilezed molusques that now were rissen above Sealevel by tectonic uplift forces.
These however appeared to be the same Photo's from a spanish magazine about the uplift of the Gibratltar rock.
Somuch for comparing geological evidence of Simultaneous Volcano-outbursts on the entire Globe
around 1650 1450 or 1250 /1200 bc and equating them with the Minoans/invasion or subsequently MYCEANAN CONQUEST OF GREECE !
Suffice it to say that the Minoan civilisation existed 'only' for 200 years( in Greece.)
from dd.1055 until 855 bc( revised Chronology !!!)
The Myceanans were probably the same as the Dorians thus the Spartans.
This proves that the subsequent 3 'greek' invasions of Greece could not have come from Asia-Minor but towards Asia Minor.
Geologists refused to equate geological Volcano Euruption Data with the Greek Myths that slashes 500 years off Greek archaeological-conventional data before 1500 bc.
When dr. Velikovsky indicated that there were 500 years too much in (egyptian) Chronology he was deemed a scientific charlatan. -
Message 12
Posted by TwinProbe (U4077936) on Monday, 12th July 2010
Hi Prof Munster
Dr V J Gupta was Professor of Geology at Punjab University and Indiaβs most celebrated fossil scientist. For 25 years he amazed the geological world with fossil finds allegedly from the Himalayas. But in 1989, writing in the British journal Nature, Prof John Talent accused Gupta of fakery. Dr Guptaβs fossils, he said, were spurious: either bought, stolen or received as gifts. Nature commissioned a three-page paper commenting on the significance of this massive exercise what can only presume was academic fraud. The total number of publications affected by Dr Guptaβs activities included seven books and no less than 458 papers.
TP -
Message 13
Posted by Prof Muster (U14387921) on Wednesday, 21st July 2010
Yes Dr. GUPTA, was caught on photographes of mini-nautilus shells, alledgedly from the Himalay region, but actually from a searidge in Spain
The point was to show that the Searidge in Spain was at the original level whilst the supposedly corresponding stratigraphical level in india was at a hight of 5.000 meters
What most geologists refused to believe was that the Hymalays' stratigraphy was indeed millions of years old( as was the coast of Spain.)
But the orogenous/ Mountain Uplift of the Himalayan Mountain Ridges was from Late holoceen/ Quarternary even around 855 bc and NOT dating back millions of years ago.
When the sub marine Indian riversilt cone formed, it's bottom halve which eroded from the then 9.000 meters top of the Himalyas was Quarternary
The riversilt cone of the indus river thus formed in upside-down manner in ancienity of siltlayer speaking.
That the present top of the Himalays may date from Eocene or Mio-cene is just by erosion of these soft layers.
Likewise when we see pictures of Vast deserts and the Dent where a giant Astroiid or Meteor has fallen , we see it in it's eroded stage, yet the fall of such a large 2/4 Kilometers large meteor
occured probably in a Forested area with the original top Layer that would at least be 5 meters if not 20 meters higer than today.
Moreover,
in dating the Andes Ridge uplift on say 2 million years ago, we forget that the Lake Titicaca and it's indian-fishing village was lifted at teh saem time dating that uplift no earlier than in 1055 bc.
Therefor my contention is that
the LAST great erruption of Santorini coiciding with the End of teh Minoan civilization is in year 855 and NOT 1189 or 1200 bc
Sincerely'
Prof MUSTER
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