Ancient and ArchaeologyΒ permalink
Nubia
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Message 1.Β
Posted by shivfan (U2435266) on Thursday, 21st January 2010
I saw a very interesting programme on Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ4 a couple of weeks ago, and it dealt with the ancient civilization of Nubia....
Of course, we know quite a bit about Egypt, thanks to the pyramids, and the Rosetta Stone. But very little is known about Nubia, their sworn enemies to the south. Quite a few wars were fought with the Nubians, and for a period of time, the Egyptians conquered them. Then, the tables were turned, and the Nubians conquered Egypt, providing a short-lived dynasty to rule that kingdom.
In the early part of their history, the Nubians didn't have a written record. But in the latter part of their history, they developed a hieroglyphic writing style of their own. However, this hasn't been cracked yet. When this is eventually deciphered, I wonder what we'll learn about the Nubians.... -
Message 2
Posted by WickerMan (U14275309) on Thursday, 21st January 2010
You might be interested in a somewhat recent book by Henry T. Aubin, The Rescue of Jerusalem, 2002/3.
His research essentially sheds light on the sudden departure of Sennacherib from Jerusalem in 701 BCE.
A confrontation in which Sennacherib claims to have been the victor, yet Aubin demonstrates that the Assyrians may have fled the scene due to the sudden advance of the Nubian Pharaoh, Tirhaka.
Aubin makes a persuasive argument. -
Message 3
Posted by Grumpyshakazulu (U6590497) on Saturday, 23rd January 2010
I have been watching the whole series and found it very interesting.
The episodes on Ethiopia & Great Zimbabwe have also been very revealing. -
Message 4
Posted by shivfan (U2435266) on Monday, 25th January 2010
I just saw the one on Ethiopia, and it was fascinating....
How many people realise that the Ethiopian Christian church has such old roots? -
Message 5
Posted by cloudyj (U1773646) on Monday, 25th January 2010
I've only seen the Ethiopa programme and came to the conclusion that it'd over-reached itself. They tried to cram so much in that they didn't really cover anything. Nor did I get much sense of Ethiopian history, other than it's really old and Christian (which I knew already).
Still, a good travel documentary. -
Message 6
Posted by cloudyj (U1773646) on Monday, 25th January 2010
They tried to cram so much in that they didn't really cover anything.Β
D'oh, I should try thinking about things a little more clearly before I post.
What I really mean is that there was a lot of detail about stuff which didn't really portray much about the history except an unbroken cultural tradition. Interesting in a sense. Or maybe the purpose isn't to teach us Ethiopian history and I was expecting the wrong thing. -
Message 7
Posted by selocsbrinsley (U14313308) on Monday, 25th January 2010
I've just watched the programmes on Nubia and Ethiopia and can't wait to find time for the next two of the series.
Well done Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ, these were really interesting, informative and make me even more interested in finding out more.
Please can we have a link to the Egyptian Pharoes especially when the Nubian Pharoes took over and who was in power when the Romans (and Cleopatra!) took over? -
Message 8
Posted by Idamante (U1894562) on Monday, 25th January 2010
Please can we have a link to the Egyptian Pharoes especially when the Nubian Pharoes took over and who was in power when the Romans (and Cleopatra!) took over? Β
The 'black phraohs' of Nubia (aka Kush) were the 25th dynasty, they ruled Egypt during the 8th-7th century BC.
By the time the Romans arrived (600 years later) Egypt was ruled by the Ptolemies, descended from one of Alexander's Macedonian generals. -
Message 9
Posted by ayse (U10840184) on Wednesday, 27th January 2010
I haven't seen the programme on Nubia yet but have seen the other three programmes. So good to see something that doesn't presume that watchers are odiots. Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ 4 seems to have taken over from Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ2 for great watchable and interesting programmes(although some are repeated on 2 later).
Went to Australia recently and they have a number of Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ programmes running.
Well done Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ loved it. -
Message 10
Posted by shivfan (U2435266) on Thursday, 28th January 2010
I suppose, to be fair, cloudyj, the presenter is an art historian, and it was presented with that approach in mind....
I see it as an enjoyable programme that has whetted my appetite, and got me interested in trying to find out some more.
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Message 11
Posted by cloudyj (U1773646) on Thursday, 28th January 2010
I suppose, to be fair, cloudyj, the presenter is an art historian, and it was presented with that approach in mind....Β
I watched the West Africa episode last night and thinking of it as cultural/art history makes it more enjoyable. I'm now convinced that my intiial disappointment is based on my incorrect assumption about what the series should have delivered.
So I take it all back.
I see it as an enjoyable programme that has whetted my appetite, and got me interested in trying to find out some more.Β
Completely agree. And it may well influence this year's holiday plans! -
Message 12
Posted by TimTrack (U1730472) on Thursday, 28th January 2010
"...I suppose, to be fair, cloudyj, the presenter is an art historian, and it was presented with that approach in mind...."
Yes. You can actually see this influence in his scripts. Not that this is a bad thing, but it helps to understand where they are coming from.
Given the general lack of programmes on African history, this series is a most welcome foray in to the subject. -
Message 13
Posted by shivfan (U2435266) on Friday, 29th January 2010
For anyone who's interested, the programme on Nubia will be repeated on Sunday night on Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ2 at 7pm....
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Message 14
Posted by mickeymay (U3600416) on Friday, 29th January 2010
I recall a few years back the showing of the naked archaeologist, and how his search for the "ark of the covenant" lead to one lead in Ethiopia.
Where it is still being guarded at any one time by a solitary high priest.
Apparently most die after only a couple of years of being called to the post, because of the apparent lethal nature of the ark. -
Message 15
Posted by Wyldeboar (U11225571) on Monday, 1st February 2010
I watched this prog, and the episode of ' Around the World in 80 Treasures' that immediately followed it. Did anyone else think the combination was a bit of an own goal on the Beebs part?
The presenter in 'Lost Kingdoms.. ' went to the Dogon tribe in Mali and tried to make a connection between their ceremonial masks and the bronze images he had earlier seen in Benin. He was clearly told that one mask represented The Lizard, and another The Snake, seemingly supporting his theory.
Twenty minutes later, we had the presenter of 80 Treasures some years earlier being told the self same masks, possibly even in the same village, one that I vaguely remember Michael Palin visiting in his 'Sahara' series, represented ' The Connection between Heaven & Earth ' and 'Different Levels of Knowledge' respectively??
Who is having who on here???
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Message 16
Posted by TimTrack (U1730472) on Monday, 1st February 2010
Wylde,
Well, you know, it is possible that no one is having anybody on :
1) The representations of animals may also represent something else allegorically. So the two ideas, as stated by yourself, are not necessarily exclusive of each other.
2) It is possible that current theory has moved on since the earlier programme was made.
3) History is full of disputed opinion, so, just maybe, two people have differing but honest opinions.
Having recorded but not yet watched the recent programme, and not having seen the '80 Objects' programme recently, I can't see which idea I might prefer. -
Message 17
Posted by Wyldeboar (U11225571) on Monday, 1st February 2010
Or:-
4) There's a whole subversive Malian cottage industry that thrives on telling gullible TV presenters exactly what they want to hear???
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Message 18
Posted by WeeJemmy (U14316099) on Tuesday, 2nd February 2010
I have heard that a lot of the 'Ancient Authentic African Dances' shown in the old 60s documentaries were invented on the spot, by tribesmen with a better grasp of 'economic realities' than the documentary makers!
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Message 19
Posted by cloudyj (U1773646) on Wednesday, 3rd February 2010
I have heard that a lot of the 'Ancient Authentic African Dances' shown in the old 60s documentaries were invented on the spot, by tribesmen with a better grasp of 'economic realities' than the documentary makers!Β
Lying to tourists and selling fake "relics" is surely as old as tourism itself.
In the Victorian Lake District, publican Will Ritson made up such whopping lies, that he's become a piece of local history in his own right:
s_Biggest_Liar -
Message 20
Posted by shivfan (U2435266) on Sunday, 7th February 2010
They had a very interesting programme tonight, this time on Great Zimbabwe, Kilwa Kisiwani, and Mapungwe, all interesting kingdoms in southern Africa and on the Swahili coast....
These were significant kingdoms run by black Africans, though later historians tried to prove that they were created and run by non-Europeans.
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