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Sailing ships

• Message 1.Β 

  Posted by TonyG (U1830405) on Wednesday, 23rd December 2009

  I am sure that I read or heard somewhere that ancient merchant ships had only sails, not oars. I am referring here to Roman and Iron Age British / Gaulish ships here. Assuming that these ships were single-masted, square-sailed vessels, how on earth did they ply the coasts in all directions? I know the wind around Briain changes frequently, but did they really have to wait for it to blow in the right direction? I am no sailor, but I understand that tacking is extremely difficult with a square sail, especially with a large, heavily laden ship.
  
  Or have I got it wrong? Did merchant ships also have oars, just like the military ones? That would make much more sense.
  
  Any nautical experts out there?

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• Message 2

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  Posted by henvell (U1781664) on Wednesday, 23rd December 2009

  Some of the water craft that The Sea Peoples used in the Battle of the Nile do not appear to have oars.
  A second smaller sail was frequently used to give the vessels a degree of mobility.

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  Posted by Haesten (U4770256) on Wednesday, 23rd December 2009

  It has been speculated that the position of the mast-foot of the Blackfriars Ship points to her being fore and aft rigged, or possibly lateen rigged.
  
  
  
  
  
  Lateen rigs sail a lot closer to the wind than a square sail but are difficult to tack as the yard has to be dropped and manhandled to the opposite side of the mast. Tacking against the wind up the Thames would rule out the Lateen I would think.
  A square rigged Viking Knarr could point to 60 degrees which is better than square rigger of Nelson's navy.
  A modern racing yacht can point to 30 degrees of the wind and use a spinnaker to go downwind.
  
  
  
  Most non sailors think directly downwind is the fastest point of sail but it's not, sailing on the quarter (135 degrees) is the fastest point for a square rig, apparent wind is the reason.
  
  
  
  A square rig can hang when coming up into the wind to tack, stalling the turn, but the sail can be backed (allowed to set against the mast) pushing her through the eye of the wind, great skill is needed to avoid a capsize in this manoeuvre.
  A multi masted square rigger would feather the main sails and back the foresails, then set the mains on the opposite tack and feather the foresails, once she was falling off the wind on the opposite tack all the sails could be reset.
  
  

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• Message 4

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  Posted by WickerMan (U14275309) on Sunday, 27th December 2009

  Some of the water craft that The Sea Peoples used in the Battle of the Nile do not appear to have oars.
  A second smaller sail was frequently used to give the vessels a degree of mobility.Β 
  
  You may notice that the enemy 'sea people' fleet have no oars but the Egyptian fleet do have oars.
  Some have suggested this may be due to the artist simply indicating that Egypt is in control but that the enemy is in disarray.
  We see the same suggestion with the posture of Egyptian military, in formation, whereas enemy soldiers are flailing all over the place.
  
  The battle of Kadesh suggests a similar theme, organized Egyptian troops & chariots, disorganized Hittite troops & chariots.
  
  However, the enemy ships do have a stern rudder, except the one which is overturned.
  Scholars have suggested the reason Egyptian vessels have oars but not the enemy, coupled with the fact both fleets have their sails furled, may suggest Egypt was attacking a stationary fleet of enemy vessels in sheltered waters like a bay or harbour, or even on a river.
  A stern rudder may have been a fixed feature whereas oars were removable for obvious reasons.
  The enemy was caught unawares?
  
  Wickerman

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  Posted by TimTrack (U1730472) on Tuesday, 29th December 2009

  Could it be that larger trading vessels would use local craft to tow them, using oars, in to harbours or up rivers ?
  
  I am pretty sure that this method was used in later periods.

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• Message 6

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  Posted by Haesten (U4770256) on Wednesday, 30th December 2009

  Galleys don't make good trading ships, the free-board is too low, also when you point a sailing ship into the wind it heals over and would ship water through the oar ports if brought too close to the wind.
  There were some Portuguese galleys in the Armada, Frobisher lured them into a tidal race off Selsey Bill and they were swamped by the tide.
  Nelson's ships could be towed by the longboats they carried if there was no wind, but usually they would use a kedge anchor.
  
  

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• Message 7

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  Posted by Sambista (U4068266) on Wednesday, 30th December 2009

  Single masted square riggers can tack - you can even experience it for yourself.
  
  
  The galleys didn't make it as far as the chaneel, IIRC. The galeasses (different thing altogether) did.

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• Message 8

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  Posted by Haesten (U4770256) on Thursday, 31st December 2009

  The Mediterranean Galeas of the type used by the Portuguese were up to 60m long, single deck, three masted, lateen rigged (or combination of lateen/square) they carried 20 oars and 70 cannon.
  
  The Sea Stallion had a bit of a torrid time while beating around Lands End on her return from Dublin.
  Note how close the oar ports are to the water when she is sailing close hauled at the start of this video.
  
  
  
  A Viking Knarr has a lot higher freeboard, as it only carries a couple of stern oars for maneuvering in harbour. Also the length to beam ratio is only 4 to 1 compared to the Sea Stallion's 8 to 1. The extra beam width of a Knarr resists the healing over when she is brought close to the wind, this combination gave the Knarr far better pointing ability to the Longship.

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