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Why?

• Message 1.Ìý

  Posted by irene (U2450323) on Wednesday, 28th November 2007

  I read somewhere that Hannibal once surrounded the little town of Rieti (Lazio) but never attacked it & subsequently withdrew his forces. Is this true & why did he not attack? What was the reason? Anybody know? Thanks in advance.

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• Message 2

  , in reply to message 1.

  Posted by RainbowFfolly (U3345048) on Wednesday, 28th November 2007

  Hi TammyLu,
  
  I'll have a quick look in Livy tonight to see what I can find - if it helps, I think the town was known as "Reate" in Latin at the time.
  
  I've just done a quick search for Reate in the Project Gutenburg online copy of books IX-XXXVI and couldn't find any explicit mention of it. However, I did find this gem of a prodigy in Book XXX:
  ...At Reate a foal was produced with five feet.Ìý
  
  Now I think about it, it might not even be in Livy - it could be in Polybius, or one of the many later Roman historians who used him as their source for the Second Punic War.
  
  Cheers,
  
  
  RF

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• Message 3

  , in reply to message 2.

  Posted by an ex-nordmann - it has ceased to exist (U3472955) on Wednesday, 28th November 2007

  If it was immediately prior to Hannibal's loss of Capua back to the Romans and his vainglorious assault on Rome, a bluff that the Romans recognised as such, then not being too heavy handed in Latium on the way to Rome would make total sense (given that he knew a siege of the capital wasn't a real option and he'd have to come back that way shortly). He'd just spent quite a few years building up allies in Italy, and was still at the point where he could claim not to see that the tide was turning against him. Small Latin cities and towns being encouraged or threatened into his camp still represented the tactic most likely to yield success. Their destruction, and that of their ability to produce food, would most likely have spelt disaster for Hannibal, even more than it would have for Rome.
  
  For wholesale slaughter of Roman and ally citizens up to that point however one has to check the conduct of Rome's armies, not Hannibal's!

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• Message 4

  , in reply to message 3.

  Posted by RainbowFfolly (U3345048) on Wednesday, 28th November 2007

  Cheers Nordmann - now I don't have an excuse to read tonight I can watch a selection of mind-numbing reality TV shows.
  
  So what was the source for the Rieta / Reate answer?
  
  RF
  
  

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• Message 5

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  Posted by an ex-nordmann - it has ceased to exist (U3472955) on Wednesday, 28th November 2007

  None apart from my memory and a lot of guessing. Unlike you I must forego TV (not hard to do in Norway) and fulfil a compunction to wade through back-of-book indexes all evening to see if the timing of the siege mentioned is right. It's not one I ever heard of before.

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• Message 6

  , in reply to message 5.

  Posted by RainbowFfolly (U3345048) on Wednesday, 28th November 2007

  Hi Nordmann,
  
  My apologies for ruining your night of couch-potatory - I didn't notice the "If" at the start of your previous post and assumed it was based on a source.
  
  I'm certain it's not in Livy if that helps and did an online seacrh through the relevant books before with no luck. He uses 10 books or so to cover the war, so the only other source I can think of on that scale is Polybius. I've done a quick online search for "Rieti" and "Reate" in the books of his "Histories" that cover the war (the first 15) and nothing came up at all.
  
  Have you got Lazenby's "Hannibal's War"? According to the index (which I managed to see via Amazon's website) Reate/Rieti appears on pages 122 and 184...
  
  Cheers,
  
  
  RF

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• Message 7

  , in reply to message 4.

  Posted by irene (U2450323) on Friday, 14th December 2007

  Hi Rainbow - re Hannibal & Rieti. Managed to find where I got my info from in the first place - apparently someone called Titus Livius wrote about it. Perhaps there was nothing in Rieti that Hannibal wanted or perhaps it was too fortified - I dont know. Just curious that's all.

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• Message 8

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  Posted by Xenos5 (U1814603) on Friday, 14th December 2007

  Titus Livius and Livy are one and the same fellow.

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• Message 9

  , in reply to message 8.

  Posted by irene (U2450323) on Sunday, 16th December 2007

  Hey thanks Xmos - I didn't realise that.

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• Message 10

  , in reply to message 9.

  Posted by RainbowFfolly (U3345048) on Monday, 17th December 2007

  Hi TammyLu,
  
  Yup, as Xenos says, Titus Livius is just the posh name for good old Livy. Posh names shouldn't be confused with alter-egos, like Bruce Wayne and Batman, or Peter Parker and Spiderman - although Titus Livius and Roman kinda fits...
  
  Cheers,
  
  
  RF

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• Message 11

  , in reply to message 10.

  Posted by an ex-nordmann - it has ceased to exist (U3472955) on Monday, 17th December 2007

  I'm assuming that Titus Livius got his nickname Livy playing amateur football - possibly with the Hippodrome Wanderers Dies Solis League team, along with the midfielders "Sooty" Seutonius, "Tackey" Tacitus and "Sally" Sallust (known affectionately by "Hippy" fans as "The Triumvirate" as they played great defensively but tended to disappear going forward). Their goalkeeper "Corny" Cornelius Nepo was renowned for his slow delivery, but with a back four that included the very non-effeminate "Julie" Julius Florus and the guy they bought in from Panathanaikos "Polly" Polybius, The Hipps were a tough team to break down on their home turf (most of Western Europe, bits of Asia and Africa and the entire Mediterranean region).
  
  Livy played a total of 500 games (of which less than a quarter remain) in a career that saw the old style Republican league become the Empire Premiership, and in which The Hipps saw off several pretenders to the top club position (or "first among equals" as they used to call themselves). A packed team of bangers (Chælsius Cæsarius) financed by a multi-millionaire Crassus were going great guns until a disastrous Asian tour left them bankrupt, and the Wimbledon of their day, Antony & Cleopatra Academicals, showed some promise until they petered out with a whimper after a less than convincing match against then third division opposition. Ironically it was this lowly team, Octavian Rovers (later rebranded as Augustan City, and then simply as Cæsar Argyle) who would prove the undoing of the whole racket.
  
  In AD 17, after a match-fixing scandal and allegations of bribery involving Cæsar Argyle's new management team, Livy and his mates called it a day and all of them retired to lives of writing propaganda for the Argyle. All except Livy, that is - he died.

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• Message 12

  , in reply to message 11.

  Posted by RainbowFfolly (U3345048) on Monday, 17th December 2007

  Hi Nordmann,
  
  Some of the chants were spectacular at those Roman football matches.
  
  Caligula woah-oah-oah,
  Caligula woah-oah-oah,
  He thought he was a god,
  And his mate was called Herod.Ìý
  (To the tune of "Volare")
  
  It all got a bit complicated during the third century with the Gallic Empite and all the usurpers, and a common chant could often be heard from the terraces:
  Four Roman Emperors,
  There's only four Roman Emperors,
  Four Roman Em-perors,
  There's only four Roman Em-perors,Ìý
  
  But a personal favourite has to be:
  He's fat,
  He round
  He burnt Rome to the ground,
  Emp'ror Nero,
  Emp'ror NeroÌý
  
  Cheers,
  
  
  RF
  
  p.s. Am I allowed to start a new thread on pyramid hats? It seems the previous thread has been closed, and I have a link where full details of how to make the hat and it's architectonical magical powers can be purchased for a small fee...

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• Message 13

  , in reply to message 12.

  Posted by an ex-nordmann - it has ceased to exist (U3472955) on Monday, 17th December 2007

  I must admit I lost interest in football after it became dominated by just a few big gens with the bulk of the players not even Roman. Then, when it got so that even the Rome national team had to start employing a foreign manager the jig was up as far as I was concerned.
  
  There's no doubting that the new set-up meant a lot of cash coming into the game, but who can forget the good old Republic League days when no team could hold the title for more than a year and chants included this "song of praise" for Dictator Town's number one, "Lucy" Lucius Cornelius Sulla:
  
  
  
  (to the tune of Those Were The Days)
  
  Our goalie's yellow hair
  And pock marks everywhere
  And his nose is brilliant beetroot red
  He's good at saving shots
  While he's proscribing snots
  And he's really really weird in bed
  
  Ìý
  
  or their rivals, the Marius United fans (no-one likes us and we don't care) whose own goalkeeper "Lucy" Lucius Cornelius Cinna was often regaled with:
  
  
  
  (to the tune of Quantanamera)
  
  There's only one goalie Lucy
  There's only one goalie Lucy
  One goalie Luuuuuuuucy
  Well actually there's two goalies Lucy
  
  Ìý
  
  Not the brightest fans in the Roman world.
  
  PS. pyramid hats are apparently "out of fashion" now. Can you design a conical one maybe? I've tried rhomboid but they just make one look like Eric Morecambe on acid.
  
  
  
  

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• Message 14

  , in reply to message 13.

  Posted by RainbowFfolly (U3345048) on Monday, 17th December 2007

  Hi Nordmann,
  
  The one that gave me most pleasure was the chant Octavian's followers sang at Marc Antony during the Battle of Actium:
  Are you Tottenham?
  Are you Tott-en-ham?
  Are you Tottenham in disguise?
  Are you Tott-en-ham in disguise?Ìý
  Cheers,
  
  
  RF

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• Message 15

  , in reply to message 14.

  Posted by an ex-nordmann - it has ceased to exist (U3472955) on Monday, 17th December 2007

  To which the MA supporters invariably replied ...
  
  
  
  (to the tune of My Old Man's A Dustman)
  
  Cleo's only magic,
  She wears a magic hat,
  And when she signed for Antony,
  He said he fancyed that.
  
  She didnt sign for your team,
  Because you're only (expletive deleted),
  She signed signed up for Marc Antony
  Coz we're bloody Dynamite
  
  Ìý
  
  The lyrics had to be changed somewhat after Actium of course.
  

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