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End of the Holy Roman Empire

• Message 1.Β 

  Posted by Shaz519 (U2827975) on Monday, 6th August 2007

  On the Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ history homepage today, (6 Aug 07) it states:
  On this day: 6 August
  
  •1806: The Holy Roman Empire comes to an end when Francis II renounces the title, becoming Emperor of Austria.
  
  Is this same Roman Empire as Ancient Rome, or something different connected with the Roman Catholic Church? If it is, the Roman Empire lasted over 2000 years? I thought it ended when the Vikings became the dominant power in Europe

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• Message 2

  , in reply to message 1.

  Posted by RainbowFfolly (U3345048) on Tuesday, 7th August 2007

  Hi Shaz519,
  
  Nope, it's not the same one. The old Roman Empire is generally said to have fell in the west in AD476 with the last emperor Romulus Augustulus, who with a nice bit of irony was named after the mythical founder of Rome (Romulus) and it's first emperor (Augustus). In the east it could be said to have survived for the best part of a millenium becoming the Byzantine Empire which fell in AD1453.
  
  I don't know too much about the Holy Roman Empire (apart from the fact that name used to confuse me too) but whilst you're waiting for someone with more knowledge than me to reply to you, it might be worth looking at this article on Wikipedia. Not the whole of it as it does go on a bit, but the top and introduction might clear things up.
  
  
  Cheers,
  
  
  RF

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  Posted by an ex-nordmann - it has ceased to exist (U3472955) on Tuesday, 7th August 2007

  And I wouldn't rate the Vikings as 'the dominant power in Europe' at any point either. They did get around - that is true - but Scandinavians once ensconced in another territory tended to break ties with where they had come from, even if the process sometimes took a little time. England and Ireland are the exceptions in that large territorial tracts of both countries' territories were administered externally, at least technically, for a considerable period. But even these transformed into petty states in their own right. Knut's (Canute's) kingdom that traversed the North Sea was very much a notable (if impressive) exception to this trend.

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  Posted by Richie (U1238064) on Thursday, 9th August 2007

  The HRE was considered to be the political successor to the old WRE. It was not meant to be thought of as an actual continuation of the old Imperial ediface, especially as this new one was centered not on Rome but on the Germanic north, originally it comprised northern france and western germany, later it was the majority of modern germany, austria, northern italy, holland czech rep parts of poland.
  
  however it was never really a significant homogenus enity (much like Burgandy)it had peaks and troughs but by the time of its eventuall offical demise it had been moribund for a long time before taht date

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  Posted by rtnofdave (U7799561) on Thursday, 9th August 2007

  True to some extent. The HRE was a creation of Charlemagne, who as King of the Franks ruling much of modern France and Germany, was crowned as the "new" Roman Emperor in 800 by the then Pope. It was essentially a federation based on germanyt and northern Italy, although it became a de facto Habsburg title from the time of Emperor Charles V. The real problems began withb the Habsburg Succession of Maria Theresa in 1740 when the Empire failed to support her and proclaimed the Elector of Bavaria as Emperor until his death in 1743 when MT's husband assumed the title. In 1796, the French invasion of southern Germany following Prussia's 1795 peace with France led to the Flight of the Electors, who made their peaces with France and the HRE contingents were disbanded soon into that war. Clearly, the Habsburgs, who were engaged in a general withdrawal from Germany could not defend the HRE and increasingly the princes sided with Napoleon. In 1804, the Habsburg monarch Francis II assumed the title of Emperor of Austria as F1, but it was 1806 when the HRE was disbaned - having lasted for a thousand years (hence Adolf's Third Reich/Empire supposedly lasting as long). In 1815, a German Federation was proclaimed and the Emperor of Austria was its President, a position rather more powerful than the HRE had been for some time.
  
  Some cynic said this version was "neither Holy nor Roman nor an Empire".

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• Message 6

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  Posted by TwinProbe (U4077936) on Thursday, 9th August 2007

  "Ce corps qui s'appelait et qui s'appelle encore le saint empire romain n'était en aucune manière ni saint, ni romain, ni empire".
  
  The cynic was Voltaire I believe, although I have heard the same remark attributed to Napoleon.
  
  TP

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