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Celtic civilisation at the time of Caesar

• Message 1. 

  Posted by henryshane86 (U8179221) on Tuesday, 24th April 2007

  hey
  
  I’m starting a thesis soon and I wanted to do it on something like “rebuilding the damage from Caesar"....the point is and I do want to open a debate here, is that I feel Celtic culture at time was not that of thick barbarian people like that of Caesars commentaries. I want to prove that not only has the legagy of the Celts at this time been branded for Caesars political gain (especially Gauls, and the Britons) but also draw on some recent research which proves that these people actually were civil especially in comparison to some of the roman traditions at the time. I’ve heard that family law and the rights of women were were well ahead of that in Rome and that they developed an accurate calendar system long before the Romans adopted the Egyptian calendar, not to mention an extensive trade system.
  
  So my question… Were the Celts at the time a barbarian people or where they an advanced civilisation like the Romans but military weak and politically divided and simply put, different. Is this a case of the victors write the history books.
  
  
  

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• Message 2

  , in reply to message 1.

  Posted by stalteriisok (U3212540) on Tuesday, 24th April 2007

  I read a book about the Celts before the Romans - i only wish I could remember the title - it would have been PERFECT for ur thesis
  
  basically it underlined the superb culture of the Celts pre roman occupation
  
  bits i remember
  The democracy of the celts and the art and the poetry
  
  the "criminal system" - the thought of imprisoning a person who had erred was repulsive - they had to repay their victims by losing their material possessions - which at that time was very serious - swords, even cooking vessels etc
  
  The warfare at the time was more a battle of champions based upon a warrior caste where battles were more of a "punch up" doing little damage to the tribes involved - unlike the battles of annihalation the Romans were so keen on
  
  it impressed me - good luck and u will no doubt get some very well informed posts to help u
  
  ST
  
  
  

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  , in reply to message 1.

  Posted by fascinating (U1944795) on Wednesday, 25th April 2007

  henryshane86, so, first you decide what conclusions you will draw THEN you do the research to uncover the facts that you think will support your thesis!
  
  
  
  
  You might first tell us which passage of Caesar's writings calls the Celts 'thick'.
  
  So recent research proves that they were civil does it? Perhaps you could point up where it was proved that they all said 'good day' and 'how are you' to each other.
  
  I think you should know that the Celts were uncivilised, which means only one thing, they did not live in cities. The word barbarian stems from 'barbaros' which means 'stranger'. While the word 'barbarian' had perjorative overtones for a Roman, important writers like Tacitus did respect them, often casting them in a good light as valiant, self-reliant people as opposed to the effete city-dwellers the Romans had become (he thought).
  

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  , in reply to message 3.

  Posted by henryshane86 (U8179221) on Wednesday, 25th April 2007

  well that was fascinating Mr fascinating.....please don't take my words out of context again....I probably don't spend as much time as you checking what I write making sure it's all p.c
  
  also, I haven't drawn any conclusions as of yet, except that I feel that Caesars' commentaries and those like him at the time shaped an unfair image of the Celtic tribes of the time...that’s the purpose. Maybe he was fair, maybe he was even to generous and that’s the point of the post.
  
  You haven’t shared your own views on the matter?
  
  I would also like to thank the gentleman above for his post
  

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• Message 5

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  Posted by generallobus (U1869191) on Wednesday, 25th April 2007

  There was a book I read called the everyday life of the pagan celts, by dr anne ross. That may be of some help to you. I would say that the 'celts' (a term which itself is under refurbishment) certainly had a an overriding religious system - the druids, that implies a certain level of sophistication. I think their whole culture was carried by the druids, bards and ovates in oral form and the culture was spread all across northern europe. Also the finesse of la tene metal working cannot be denied. These people were wonderful craft workers. I think ceasar was demonising them a fair bit to make his gaulish conquests look even better than they were in reality.

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  Posted by Anglo-Norman (U1965016) on Thursday, 26th April 2007

  important writers like Tacitus did respect them 
  
  ...and conversely, was critical of his fellow citizens: "They make a wasteland, and call it civilization" (Tacitus on his fellow Romans at the Battle of Mons Graupius - and that was of a campaign led by his own father-in-law!)
  
  The 'Celts' (very dodgy term these days, especially in connection with the Britons - the Romans never used it to describe the people of the modern UK) were often somewhat romanticised by their conquerors - there's a famous statue of 'The Dying Gaul' (by Phidias?) which depicts them as a noble bunch.
  
  You should be careful that in rehabilitating the Celts, if that is what you end up doing, you don't go overboard. They had their flaws - headhunting, human sacrifice, selling each other into slavery to buy wine (one amphora per slave)...

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• Message 7

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  Posted by malacandran (U1813859) on Thursday, 26th April 2007

  quote>They make a wasteland, and call it civilization</quote>

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• Message 8

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  Posted by fascinating (U1944795) on Friday, 27th April 2007

  Now lets get it right. The phrase is 'ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant', meaning 'they make a desert, calling it PEACE'.
  
  (And let us marvel at the internet, for previously it would have taken me days to get to the library then hours to find the relevant book with the quotation in both English and latin, but finding this only took minutes).

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• Message 9

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  Posted by Anglo-Norman (U1965016) on Friday, 27th April 2007

  Apologies, I was quoting from memory - should have checked myself!

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