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Suits of Ring Mail

• Message 1.Β 

  Posted by stalteriisok (U3212540) on Friday, 13th April 2007

  Not quite sure where to put this
  
  BUT - have been watching a sky documentary re the manufacture of a chain mail coat
  
  how long did it take to make one
  
  who could afford it
  
  was it the most advanced armour at that time ??
  
  where the blacksmiths at that time making them as a full time job ??
  
  where they a ransomable commodity (ie the coats)
  st

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• Message 2

  , in reply to message 1.

  Posted by Anglo-Norman (U1965016) on Saturday, 14th April 2007

  There is no proof of how mail was mail, but the scanty evidence sugegsts that in the medieval period mail was made by winding a drawn wire around a rod, and then cutting along one edge to produced the rings. Each ring would then have the open ends flattened, punched and overlapped (it is not known if this was done individually, or if armourers had some device which could flatten, pierce and overlap simultaneously). Each ring was then interlinked with four others, two above and two below, and riveted shut (with the rivet heads on the outside to prevent then rubbing the garments beneath).
  
  Since only every other row needed to be riveted in order to join the rows above and below, the other rows could be welded shut, but surviving pieces of mail indicated all rings were riveted. 'Idle' rings were only linked with three others, alowing garments to be shaped - for example, a small hole under the armpit prevented bunching of the mail at that point. One modern re-enactor estmated it took around 200 hours to make his Saxon byrnie (about 30,000 rings), and guesses it would have taken about four times as long to do it using riveted mail. Unsurprisingly, this made it expensive. In the earlier Republican-era in Rome, when the four grades of soldier were determined by wealth, mail was only worn by the wealthier grades. In the late Republic and Empire soldiers were still expected to purchase their own armour, but since it was mass produced by state armouries it possibly may have been cheaper. In Celtic and British armies only chieftans and other high ranking (and thus wealthy) warriors tended to wear armour. In the early medieval period, unless your lord was prepared to lay out good money to equip you with mail, only the gentry and above tended to wear it, poorer types preferring fabric or fabric and metal armour (unless they could steal it from a corpse on the battlefield!)
  
  Whether or not it was the most advanced armour depends on the time. In Europe, from its invention until the end of the first century AD yes, it was - but then the Romans invented lorica segmentata, their famed segmented armour. but it never fully superceded mail, and mail returned to dominance in the Late Empire. By the late 11th/early12th centuries Byzantine and Muslim armies had developed sophisticated lamellar armour. In Europe, from the 13th century onwards mail was gradually phased out in favour of plate.
  
  Although a common popular idea is of village blacksmiths making arms and armour, it was a specialist trade. Swords in medieval Europe were produced in what were effectively mini-factories, frequently in Germany. The most common text to appear on surviving sword blades is 'GICELIN ME FECIT' (Gicelin made me - Gicelin not necessarily being the actual maker but the master of 'factory'). Likewise, whilst it is unlikely that any armourer would have exclusivey produced mail, they would probably have specialised in body armour and helmets, and not produced weapons or other items.
  
  As far as I am aware, there aren't any records of mail armour being ransomed.

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• Message 3

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  Posted by englishvote (U5473482) on Saturday, 14th April 2007

  A great post from Anglo Norman, very informative as always.
  
  So much is dependent on which period you are talking about stalteriisok, chain mail has been in use since at least the 2nd century BC and maybe goes back as far as the 6th century BC. It is still in use today, Chefs and cooks on board cruise liners and other ships use chain mail coats to prevent them from spearing themselves in rough seas!
  
  Chain mail was still in widespread military use right up until the 16th century, mainly in the Middle and Far East.
  
  Some ancient mail was made by each ring being hammered into a circle from straight iron rods.
  Other types was made by cutting rings from flat square metal plates, a hole would be punched in the centre and them the corners would have been cut off to for a rough flat ring. This must have been very time consuming and the resulting mail would have been massively expensive.
  
  In ancient times mail coats and shirts would have been salvaged from the fallen on the battlefield, the Carthaginian army was well equipped with Roman mail after all their victories in Italy.
  
  There has been a lot of speculation about just how widespread the use of lorica segmentata was within the Roman legions, it may never have been used in the Eastern Empire where the chain mail coats (hamata) was preferred, maybe because of the heat issue. Or maybe the mail coats were better at protecting the body against light arrows that were more widely used by Romes enemies in the east.
  

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• Message 4

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  Posted by Anglo-Norman (U1965016) on Saturday, 14th April 2007

  Thanks, englishvote.
  
  I wrote:
  from the 13th century onwardsΒ 
  
  Ooops! I meant "from the 14th century onwards"

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• Message 5

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  Posted by stalteriisok (U3212540) on Monday, 16th April 2007

  anglo norman and english vote
  
  thanks for superb posts - i always think it must have been amazing - as soon as a battle was nearly over there must have been a scramble for the armour of the dead which short circuited the absolute smashing of the enemy
  
  st

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• Message 6

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  Posted by Anglo-Norman (U1965016) on Wednesday, 18th April 2007

  My pleasure.
  
  D'oh! Just noticed another significant error - In Europe, from its invention until the end of the first century ADΒ 
  
  ...should of course be BC - the Kalkriese pattern lorica segmentata emerging during the early years of Augustus' reign.

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• Message 7

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  Posted by pumbar (U1339624) on Tuesday, 24th April 2007

  I seem to remember seeing a Medieval woodcut that showed young boys assembling large squares of mail together and an armourer joining them into hauberks. Apparently most of the donkeywork was done by apprentices and the trickier work of getting all the bits into a working piece of armour was left to the craftsmen.

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