Ancient and ArchaeologyÌý permalink
happy st patricks day
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Message 1.Ìý
Posted by thegoodbadugly (U2942713) on Friday, 16th March 2007
anyone want to discuss the merits of st patrick wether he is real or not or when he was born and why we in ireland celabrate st patricks day on march the 17.
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Message 2
Posted by TwinProbe (U4077936) on Saturday, 17th March 2007
Not being at all knowledgeable on Irish history I have always been more interested in Patrick growing up in post-Roman Britain. His father, the deacon Calpornius, and his grandfather (a priest) had Roman names. St Patrick’s home town, from which her was captured at the age of sixteen, was described as Bannavem Taburniae. It was presumably on the east coast but no place of this name is known. The suggestion has been made that the town was correctly called Bannaventa Burniae. No place of exactly this name is known either, but the elements of this name are certainly more familiar.
For instance Banna is the Roman fort of Birdoswald; the name is thought to derive from a Celtic word meaning ‘peak’ or ‘tongue’. Venta is also familiar and may indicate 'market' from Latin vendita or Celtic venta or went meaning ‘field’ eg Venta Belgarum (Winchester) or Venta Icenorum (Caistor by Norwich).
A place actually called Bannaventa is known from the Antonine Itinerary and is thought to be Whilton Lodge, Northampton. This central British site is not very promising as a haunt of Irish pirates. Perhaps ‘Burniae’ was added in Roman times to distinguish Patrick’s home from this other Bannaventa. Burniae, like the Kingdom of Bernicia, could originate in a Celtic word for ‘gap’ or ‘pass’.
I have occasionally wondered if Patrick’s coastal home might have had a formal relationship with our sister isle, in which case is it possible that the original name might have been Bannaventa Hiberniae on the model of Litus Saxonicum? -
Message 3
Posted by IrHist (U4245554) on Sunday, 18th March 2007
‘whether he is real or not’
He wrote two books about his life so as historical figures go he has a reasonable claim to being recognised as real.
Couple of years back a guy carved a statue of St Pat. It was an attempt to make a real life representation as opposed to the bishop type caricature inherited from the 19th C.
It showed a bald man with a simple belted tunic and a rough staff/crozier. Bald, because slaves were shorn thus. It was scrapped because religious people saw it as insulting. They didn’t want realism, they want the story as they know it. Time, historicity, accuracy, contemporanity; none of these things matter to religious people. That’s the way they like it… -
Message 4
Posted by Vinnievoyle (U2874080) on Monday, 19th March 2007
St Patrick was from Wales, Banwen to be precise. I know because I was there ! He was captured by Irish raiders who terrorised the gentle folk of South Wales. One thing's for sure: he would be disgusted at the promiscuous behaviour Americans now attach to Paddy's day. I've been to savannah for the parade(second only to Boston in terms of size) which involves women exposing their mammary glands to drooling men with camcorders in exchange for tacky coloured beads. cheers.
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Message 5
Posted by thegoodbadugly (U2942713) on Monday, 19th March 2007
the exchange of beads come from the mardigra and not the st patricks day parade,but i know what you mean,there is plenty of other irish saints out there that we do not celabrate st brendan for example now i would give you a run down of all his achivements but nordmann is sniping at my posts trying to catch me out so i refrain but i think that it is all a big publisity stunt as guinness is drank by the ocean full and other goods are purchased that is irish,i do not know how walking up o connell street and dame street celebrates a saint as i did not see very many religous floats and cannot remember seeing one from the catholic church.
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Message 6
Posted by an ex-nordmann - it has ceased to exist (U3472955) on Monday, 19th March 2007
... but nordmann is sniping at my posts trying to catch me out ...
Ìý
You do much better job of that all on your own GBU! -
Message 7
Posted by thegoodbadugly (U2942713) on Tuesday, 20th March 2007
snipe snipe snipe nordmann.snipe snipe snipe.
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Message 8
Posted by U2280797 (U2280797) on Tuesday, 20th March 2007
Whatever we say about Patrick, he is a good example of the life and creativity of post-Roman Britain, which later racists have contorted into huge killing-field of 'Celtic' victims 'fleeing' from anyone who chose to wander in.
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Message 9
Posted by Mick_mac (U2874010) on Tuesday, 20th March 2007
Anybody got any thoughts on the identification of Bannavem Taburniae with the parish of Tafarn on the island of Anglesey. This was first proposed by R.P.C. Hanson in the 70s. He argued that the ‘-em’ in Bannavem has no grammatical basis in Latin and should be read as the usual scribal reduction of ‘-ensis’, thus giving the adjectival form of Banavia. This, in turn, by normal linguistic transmutations can be shown to be an alternative rendering of Manavia, the ancient name of the island of Anglesey. On this island there is a parish called Tafarn from Latin Tabernia. And it is in this locality that Iolo Morganwyg places Patrick’s family.
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Message 10
Posted by stopmeandslapme (U1430972) on Thursday, 22nd March 2007
I guess you celebrate it because religion is a big part of your society. Why there are small celebrations in places like Russia and Japan I've no idea.
As an atheist, I don't believe in a god nor any religion nor any idols of any religion so if we were to have similar celebrations in England, I would rather it were called England Day and not St Georges Day. Having said that, I would rather we did not observe a national day at all as I think these are an excuse for the idiotically patriotic to wave their flags in peoples faces. If I want a day off work, I'll take a holiday. If I want to get drunk, I do not need an excuse and I would prefer the pubs not to be crawling with irritating people who can't handle their drink. Never EVER go out on New Year's Eve! -
Message 11
Posted by SafricanAndy (U7173046) on Monday, 26th March 2007
St Patrick's Day has been celebrated here in South Africa for many years, albeit amongst a very small minority (The Irish were discouraged from settling here in large numbers). However, the Cape had some Irish governors. The 2nd Earl of Caledon, Du Pre Alexander, an Irish peer, was Governor of the Cape from 1806 to 1811. Another Irishman, Sir Hercules George Robert Robinson (Baron Rosemead) held the same office from 1880 to 1889. I can't think of any other Irish governors right now...
Also, there is military connection with the Cape and Ireland. The first British regiments that arrived in the First Occupation of the Cape in 1795 included the 86th Regiment of Foot (later 2 Bn Royal Irish Rifles). See
Therefore, on St. Paddy's Day, those of us having Irish ancestry drink and be merry...!
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