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the vikings: a savage yet sophisticated tribe
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Message 1.听
Posted by blackjackreviewtime (U7153099) on Tuesday, 23rd January 2007
Can one compare the ruthlessness of vikings to the romans? They had several links in terms of destroying their enemys.
I am interested in anyone's opinion of them,
Thanks a lot,
BlackJackLink to this forum: the vikings: a savage yet sophisticated tribe
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Message 2
Posted by michalP (U7214484) on Tuesday, 23rd January 2007
Vickings were a brilliant tribe. I think that they were the best worriers this world have ever seen.
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Message 3
Posted by blackjackreviewtime (U7153099) on Wednesday, 24th January 2007
of course you can; you can compare any tribe in terms of their civvilisation.
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Message 4
Posted by BenCoolguyBJ (U7224044) on Wednesday, 24th January 2007
this is nonsense; how can you compare the vikings to romans?
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Message 5
Posted by Hasse (U1882612) on Wednesday, 24th January 2007
Black
Non at all exept they both where superior fighters but with a very different strategy.
Rome was a centralised imperium.
Scandinavia wasnt one nation soo a Viking could equally well attack his neighbors,altough the pickings was both easier and more plentiful overseas.
The Vikings are more to be compared to the early conquistadors without sealous priests while Rome was more like the colonisation in 19cent.
HasseLink to this forum: the vikings: a savage yet sophisticated tribe
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Message 6
Posted by LoreLovinLady (U7300583) on Wednesday, 31st January 2007
I AM A GREAT ADMIRER OF THE VIKINGS! I think they were great "sea to land" warriors. I think if one looked really close U can see that many other tribes and even fighting men of later centuries (supposively more civiled-hahaha) still used viking tactics. NOW for my favorite Ancient Warriors of all times I think the MEDIEVAL HIGHLANDERS were fearless! So what do my board members think??
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Message 7
Posted by LoreLovinLady (U7300583) on Wednesday, 31st January 2007
Now! I felt the Romans deserve their own post.the Romans were some of the world's greatest conquerers. Their generals used not only might,& brawn when they fought but they were SOME OF the first to use mathematical probabilities in planning their attacks. This made them ALMOST invincible, but look closer; the few times they did catch it hard it was while fighting less civiled tribes which is one reasons they feared Atilla and the Huns.
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Message 8
Posted by U2280797 (U2280797) on Wednesday, 31st January 2007
Is there some deep meaning behind the very odd use of 'tribes' on this thread?
For my money both lots of thugs - Romans and Norse - belonged in Broadmoor, but I suppose it would have got as full as British prisons!
The key factor in all this peculiar sympathy, or so I reckon, is that reconstructions of their bloody doings give people an excuse to dress up and get drunk!
why not just DO IT anyway?Link to this forum: the vikings: a savage yet sophisticated tribe
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Message 9
Posted by LoreLovinLady (U7300583) on Friday, 2nd February 2007
Hi Rhy,
I really don't thing the term Tribe was being used in a negative way as its defintition is:
TRIBE= A unit of sociopolitical organization consisting of a number of families, clans, or other groups who share a common ancestry and culture. Now I would certainly describe the Vikings and the Highlanders as such though I would agree with U..They did their fair share of drinking and tupping to celebrate their conquests, LOL. By the way I have heard of the re-enactments of the Civil War BUT are U saying that they do the same with The Viking and Roman wars? where?Link to this forum: the vikings: a savage yet sophisticated tribe
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Message 10
Posted by U2280797 (U2280797) on Friday, 2nd February 2007
Lorelovinlady - a lot of my students AND my daughter's boyfriend were constantly going off on Viking weekends: I don't think they managed to re-enact anything much more spectacular than becoming as inebriated as newts, but they did dress up to do it. I'll ask her about it next time she's home.
There are undoubtedly groups re-enacting Roman stuff in a small way because I've seen them on the telly, but as to the detail, sorry, can't help.Link to this forum: the vikings: a savage yet sophisticated tribe
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Message 11
Posted by IrHist (U4245554) on Friday, 2nd February 2007
'MEDIEVAL HIGHLANDERS '
Not easy to reenact MEDIEVAL HIGHLANDERS because of lack of pictorial sources.
The tomb figures would be the best bet and McClintocks 'old Irish and highland dress' is very interesting.Link to this forum: the vikings: a savage yet sophisticated tribe
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Message 12
Posted by Backtothedarkplace (U2955180) on Friday, 2nd February 2007
Hi LLL
Try this linkLink to this forum: the vikings: a savage yet sophisticated tribe
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Message 13
Posted by LoreLovinLady (U7300583) on Saturday, 3rd February 2007
Hello Rhys,
Thanks for replying. U mentioned "your students" I am new to the board, I didn't realize U were an Educator. Thats great. I would bet U are a great info source. I hope U won't mind if I dottle U for info sometimes? By the way, its true our youths can find reason for a bit of party & drink in any situation, LOL. BUT we have to give them their props. They actually have enough cultural interest to do the traditional dress before getting inebriated LOL.Link to this forum: the vikings: a savage yet sophisticated tribe
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Message 14
Posted by LoreLovinLady (U7300583) on Saturday, 3rd February 2007
Hi IrHist,
Now U are broshing the era of my greatest fascination. I have done a great deal of reading non-foction and fiction of Medieval Scottish & Irish culture and myths. Can't get enough of it. I would be interested in any & all input. non-fiction and fiction cause wouldn't U agree that all fiction stems from a bit of TRUTH?Link to this forum: the vikings: a savage yet sophisticated tribe
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Message 15
Posted by LoreLovinLady (U7300583) on Saturday, 3rd February 2007
Thanks,
The links was very informative. U have a catchy name. Does it have a special meaning such the back to the dark ages?Link to this forum: the vikings: a savage yet sophisticated tribe
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Message 16
Posted by fascinating (U1944795) on Saturday, 3rd February 2007
LoreLovinLady, thank you for introducing me to 2 new words, 'broshing' and 'dottle'.
What I would like to know is, did the Vikings come over and settle in large numbers? They dominated the East of England for a long while. How many settled here?Link to this forum: the vikings: a savage yet sophisticated tribe
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Message 17
Posted by Backtothedarkplace (U2955180) on Monday, 5th February 2007
HI LLL.
I'm afraid the name is nothing more than the catch phrase of a character on a tv show called " The Smell of Reeves and Mortimer" the guy used to wander arround shouting out such helpfull coments as "Cakey Pig" "Donkey" and on being told he was going back the the celler if he didnt start behaving "No. Not back to the dark place" All I can say in my defence is that I was in a very strange mood when I had to think up a nick name. dan is a relic from when we tried to start our own religion. Free Sean is a protest at the banning of one of the boards longest members for being rude to the moderators.Link to this forum: the vikings: a savage yet sophisticated tribe
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Message 18
Posted by lolbeeble (U1662865) on Monday, 5th February 2007
Charlie Chuck. The man was responsible for some inspired lunacy.
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Message 19
Posted by LoreLovinLady (U7300583) on Wednesday, 7th February 2007
Hi Fascinating,
Sorry I am just getting back to U. I was having some tech difficulty enhanced by new-at-sititis, LOL another new word only this one "I" made up (smile). Now as for my other two words that were new to U. Broshing means stirring up or awaking an interest in something....Dottle is used in the same context as if saying to probe or pick U or your brain for info. Both these words are old words remembered from the lango of my Great Greats Grands.Link to this forum: the vikings: a savage yet sophisticated tribe
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Message 20
Posted by LoreLovinLady (U7300583) on Wednesday, 7th February 2007
Fascination,
I forgot to respond to your question about whether the Vikings traveled in large numbers. Now from my studies I have concluded that most times they did. They did most of there travel for raiding in long boats which only carried from 50-60, but they were great ship builders for the times and did build larger ships when needed for the purpose of migrating. In fact the Vikings were not only into raiding & conquest. They actually did do a lot of trading and when they traveled they did take much of their clan and live stock with them because if they found favorable lands for settling they did set up new settlements there. They then sent supplies, goods, & directions to the new settlement back home on boats manned by only enough men to sail and protect the boats on the long journey back. They also married into other tribes already living in these new lands as they migrated. Sometimes the bride was wooed or bargained for & sometimes she was kidnapped.Link to this forum: the vikings: a savage yet sophisticated tribe
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Message 21
Posted by mykingdomforanus (U3953747) on Wednesday, 7th February 2007
The problem with assesing how many danes settled in the east of england is tricky as their dna is inseperable from those of the saxons who colonised the west of england a few centuries before,
Link to this forum: the vikings: a savage yet sophisticated tribe
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Message 22
Posted by Nik (U1777139) on Thursday, 15th February 2007
Vickings were really interesting guys but then raiding one two villages here and there that was western Europe at that time, is not anything impressive. However, their feats in Russia and Sicily were more organised efforts. Vickings were excellent merchants and technicians (Harald Hardrada started as a merchant and then became a mercenary) also but then the world prefers to see them as warriors. Now if they were taking drugs and run crazy during battle is another thing, certainly they were not the best warriors ever passed, I think Bulgarians of the similar period were much more fearsome enemies and any army of that time would rather face 2000 Vickings than 1000 Bulgarians, who were to put it right more 'colourfull'; if Vickings were said to drink wine from the skull of their enemies, Bulgarians played football with it.
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Message 23
Posted by vidargander (U7431507) on Friday, 16th February 2007
Can one compare the ruthlessness of vikings to the romans? They had several links in terms of destroying their enemys.
BlackJack
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I have some comments to the discussion:
There were big differences between the Danish, the Norwegian and the Swedish Vikings. The Swedes were influence by Russian and Mediterranean cultures, the Danes by European and the Norwegian by north Atlantic cultures.
Vikings learned probably more of German resistance than by Roman attack. These raids could be part of an 鈥榓ttack is the best defence鈥 tactic.
Rome, the second, was, at that time, a theocratic empire, that probably had more in common with today鈥檚 Islamic regimes, than the first Rome.
The Vikings lost the theocratic war. The Norse writings are therefore very influenced by monotheistic belief of the defeated. It like if the Muslims should write the Bible today. It wouldn鈥檛 be the same, would it?Link to this forum: the vikings: a savage yet sophisticated tribe
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Message 24
Posted by TrailApe (U1701496) on Friday, 16th February 2007
What I would like to know is, did the Vikings come over and settle in large numbers? They dominated the East of England for a long while. How many settled here?听
While if you read certain histories you would be excused for thinking that it was only the Saxons lurking in what was to become England, the Danes were certainly present and carved out a good sized empire in England and settled there, it was called the Danelaw. It stretched approx from a line drawn between London and Chester, and its northern limit was somewhere in Durham (the saxon's describe it's southern boundary in detail but don't have the same detail for the northern boundary).
The people they beat to get this territory, the Angles of Northumbria and Mercia, themselves originally hailed from the same neck of the woods,so I can imagine it would be hard to differentiate a dane from an angle - I bet even the language was similair.
When they speak of the 'Saxon's' standing at Hastings, that's not quite true, it would have been a mixture of several races, but unfortunatly 'saxon' is becoming a catch all description for this period and can be misleading.Link to this forum: the vikings: a savage yet sophisticated tribe
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Message 25
Posted by Nik (U1777139) on Friday, 16th February 2007
The eastern Empire was certainly not a theocratic empire and certainly any resemblance to the islamic empire is on the fact that the latter built on the former. The Empire had laws that no matter if influenced by religion (don't you think the same happens today everywhere, it is just that we do not realise) it was run by Emperors and not priests. If the patriarch had a saying that is another question, the patriarch never reached the levels of influence that the Pope had and to be honest, the Patriarch on the overall enjoyed more power under the Ottoman Empire than under the Byzantine.
Have you ever wondered what was the idea of Eastern Romans about crusades and holy wars (of any kind)? The first I though is a rather late example, Emmanuel Palaiologus tried to make a summary of what is all about and what is the role of religion. At the end of the day, byzantines (at least in the higher ranks) used relgion more as a cultural tool rather than trying to establish strict theocratic regimes (not that there were not any forces that pressed for the latter like in the case of iconoclasts). Not to mention that in strict theocratic regimes you would not have patriarchs playing with astrology or philosophers teaching the return to the 12 gods - it would simply mean their death.Link to this forum: the vikings: a savage yet sophisticated tribe
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Message 26
Posted by vidargander (U7431507) on Saturday, 17th February 2007
The second Rome, lasted a thousand years. Certainly there were differences in the powers during such a long time-span. It was founded on Christianity and fell for Islamic theocracy. It might well be that the emperors were sceptic to Christian dictatorship, because Christian and Muslim monotheisms are not that different. Both are based on Babylonian angels, Abraham鈥檚 family line is fundamental, and Jesus is a prophet in the Koran.
The title Pope stems from the Etruscan high-priest title Pontifex Maximus from 254 BC. The powerful Augustus Ceasar was the Pontifex Maximus too. Therefore the line of roman emperors and priest are basically the same.
The mediterrian theocratic warfares are important to understand what the anti-Norse theocratic warfare was about. What puzzles me is that the Norse pantheists were converted by the sword. It鈥檚 the same execution mean that extreme Muslims uses today. Therefore I find it legitimate to question if the theocratic warfare towards the Norse pantheism really was a joint Christian/Muslim act against the heathens.Link to this forum: the vikings: a savage yet sophisticated tribe
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Message 27
Posted by Nik (U1777139) on Saturday, 17th February 2007
There is some good point in your analysis, however permit me to delve into two more details:
The christianisation of Vickings in Scandinavia is similar but not exactly the same as the christianisation of Greeks and Romans across the Mediterranean world and it quite differs in most cases of muslimification of populations across North Africa, Spain and later Minor Asia and S.E. Europe.
For the bulk of Greeks/Romans of the 5th century there would be no question of fully accepting that new eastern religion - they would rather tolerate it. However, as this was for more than a century the official religion of emperors and as the latter used it much more to control societies than previous emperors used religion then for most people it became simply a question of societal survival. It is like what happens in many countries today, you have the same political party ruling for 20-30 years, hence to get a good post you will have to enroll in that party. That seems to hold true for a large part of the Mediterranean population - but that was a long and slow process (and produced all that phenomenon of hellenisation of christianism as many new believers hardly believed really and practically put the christian cloth on their older beliefs). Of course, a lot of state-supported violence aided this process and that continued well into the times of Justinianus (well into the 6th century) who had to take strong measures against paganists (showing that it was still a large part of the population refusing to get interested in christianism).
A similar but not exactly the same process occured in Scandinavia. Similar because there had been used both violence and "social persuasion" of the above example but then different as this religion was not imposed by a circle of believers with political access to the royal house trying to influence and orientate the leaders towards this or that direction but it was directly the initiative of leaders themselved who in their effort to approach the more advanced south and bring more development to their coutries (of course by exerting more direct control on local societies) embraced this religion and asserted it on their subjects.
Muslims on the other hand, mostly spread their religion through rapid military campaigns - they happened to conquer also lands where the previous religion, christianism was not well founded (presence of many heretics fighting against orthodox ones). Later they could use also political means (like in Spain where muslims were more advanced that local christianis hence for some time it was a fashion to turn to a muslim). In Minor Asia and Europe muslimification had been both extremely violent (ranging from kidnappings to threat of extensive massacres) to mild (promise of better positions in the administration, especially in the military etc. - it is not accidental that many important Ottomans had either christian parents or had been born themselves christians). Similar things happened in India (modern India & Pakistan). However, muslims rarely wished to convert everyone to muslim (unlike christians who could just not live with anything different) - and that partially to some short of tolerance and partially due to the nice and easy things that non-muslims had anyway to pay more taxes, someone had to do some work also isn't it?Link to this forum: the vikings: a savage yet sophisticated tribe
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Message 28
Posted by vidargander (U7431507) on Monday, 19th February 2007
I don鈥檛 think there is any reason to believe that the christening of the Norse was any less brutal military campaign for domination. I don鈥檛 think there are reasons to believe the conquerors鈥 heroic tales of themselves or the corresponding condescending of the conquered. It sounds very much like today鈥檚 extremists鈥 propaganda. Surely, there might have been counter strikes just as savage as the attacks.
However, there's no reason to believe that the Norse weren any less sophisticated as others.Link to this forum: the vikings: a savage yet sophisticated tribe
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Message 29
Posted by CrusaderPete (U1811057) on Thursday, 22nd February 2007
The Danelaw's Northern Border, was Bernicia's border with Lothian, as Bernicia was a "client" Kingdom of York (which is what the Danes called their little Empire over here).
The Danes settled in reasonable numbers, though never outnumbered the Angles, as Aethelstan (England's first proper King) was forced to pass a law protecting them from Angle retaliation/ retribution.
I believe Derby was their largest settlement.
Saxon, by the way, was always used as a "catchall phrase" for all of Northern Europe's tribes as it derived from the Saex (which just about everyone, not just the Saxons, carried).
Similarly, it's now generally accepted that "Varengian" was used by the Byzantines, not just to describe the Swedish Vikings they first employed, but all of the 'North Sea Tribes'.Link to this forum: the vikings: a savage yet sophisticated tribe
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Message 30
Posted by mickeymay (U3600416) on Friday, 23rd February 2007
Well they certainly settled in Normandy, it was gifted to them by the King of France (hence the name), in general to deter other vikings coming down the river Seine to pillage Paris.
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Message 31
Posted by vidargander (U7431507) on Saturday, 24th February 2007
mickeymay: Well they certainly settled in Normandy, it was gifted to them by the King of France (hence the name), in general to deter other vikings coming down the river Seine to pillage Paris.
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Those socalled 鈥榦ther vikings鈥 are better known as Englishmen.Link to this forum: the vikings: a savage yet sophisticated tribe
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Message 32
Posted by TwinProbe (U4077936) on Saturday, 24th February 2007
Hi Everyone,
On the subject of the Vikings I think that this story from the Orkneyinga Saga (Penguin Classics: trans. Palsson & Edwards) reveals their pragmatic approach to religious conversion, and no doubt much else.
Olaf Tryggvason had spent an eventful four years looting in Britain. He got as far as the Scillies were he was baptized. He then moved to Dublin and married a king鈥檚 sister. Olaf eventually sailed north and reached Orkney where he encountered Earl Sigurd, just embarking on a Viking voyage.
鈥淚 want you and all your subjects to be baptized鈥 said Olaf 鈥 if you refuse I鈥檒l have you killed on the spot and ravage every island with fire and steel.鈥 The Earl could see what kind of situation he was in鈥︹..
That鈥檚 the way to win friends and influence people!
TPLink to this forum: the vikings: a savage yet sophisticated tribe
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Message 33
Posted by vidargander (U7431507) on Sunday, 25th February 2007
TP: 鈥淥laf Tryggvason; I want you and all your subjects to be baptized鈥 said Olaf 鈥 if you refuse I鈥檒l have you killed on the spot and ravage every island with fire and steel.鈥 The Earl could see what kind of situation he was in鈥︹..
That鈥檚 the way to win friends and influence people!
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After being baptised, Olaf Tryggvason was no longer any true Viking, but a monotheistic crusader.
The Vikings, the victims, are not to be blamed for the brutal theocratic assimilation.
It is however interesting to notice that the Vikings probably didn鈥檛 suddenly disappear, they converted.Link to this forum: the vikings: a savage yet sophisticated tribe
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Message 34
Posted by LoreLovinLady (U7300583) on Saturday, 17th March 2007
Hello again,
I wonder if U can enlightment a little on the history of the Templar knights and their exile?Link to this forum: the vikings: a savage yet sophisticated tribe
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Message 35
Posted by LoreLovinLady (U7300583) on Saturday, 17th March 2007
Hi Niko,
I read all your post but because of where I live and the time difference I seldom get to post before site closed. I have noticed U really get a lot of facts and OPINIONS (smile) out there. Can U HELP get me some enlightment on the MEDIEVAL Templar Knights? THEIR EXILE & WERE THEY TREATED UNJUSTLY?
LoreLovinLady (LLL)Link to this forum: the vikings: a savage yet sophisticated tribe
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Message 36
Posted by thegoodbadugly (U2942713) on Saturday, 17th March 2007
the vikings accepted women as their leaders and that is unusual for a warrior tribe like them.also women had good standing in their society which is unuasal for their time.
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Message 37
Posted by an ex-nordmann - it has ceased to exist (U3472955) on Saturday, 17th March 2007
the vikings accepted women as their leaders ...
听
Name one. -
Message 38
Posted by englishvote (U5473482) on Saturday, 17th March 2007
Hilda Bloodaxe, as seen on these very boards.
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Message 39
Posted by LoreLovinLady (U7300583) on Saturday, 17th March 2007
Hi TGBU,
THANKS for that little fact about the Vikings being smart enough to accept female leaders. I will research that and find the name of some for my records and for my discussion group. I'D like to share one of my favorites with U though she was not a Viking. She was Celt, Queen of ICeni: BOADICEA
Between AD 61 and AD 63 Boadicea led her Iceni people to a glorious but bloody war against the Romans. The Iceni Celts had submitted their kingdom in East Anglia to the conquering Romans and the rule of Emperor Claudius in AD 43. In AD 61, Prasutagus, Boadicea's husband and King of the Iceni died. A dispute followed during which Boadicea, was publicly beaten by the soldiers of the emperor, and her two daughters raped. The Iceni were insulted and rose in revolt led by their queen Boadicea. So successful was the uprising that the Romans were almost defeated. Unfortunately for the Iceni and their allies, the military skill of the Roman army finally led to the crushing of the rebellion.After the revolt, Roman rule was re-established. For almost two glorious years, Boadicea pillaged the Roman settlements; she remains to this day, the greatest of the heroines of Britain -
Message 40
Posted by an ex-nordmann - it has ceased to exist (U3472955) on Saturday, 17th March 2007
I will research that and find the name of some for my records and for my discussion group
听
You have your work cut out for you LLL. You'll find some highs status women (as identified by their burial goods) but as for political or military rulers ... well, just take it from me that GBU is a little, em, "rusty" when it comes to these things (well, most things really)! -
Message 41
Posted by thegoodbadugly (U2942713) on Sunday, 18th March 2007
nordmann they have only discovered the burial place of a warrior queen,give me a little while and i will get you her name,viking women were powerful in their own right,you still have the narrow view that their women were no better that slaves,
quote from nordmann you will find some high status women but as for polictial or milatary rulers.
nordmann and others would have you belive that viking women sat at home skinning rabbits and sewing loin cloths,i have always had an interest in history but as i have never finished school,i left when i was 12,maybe my view of it is not as coherent as other learned folks that post here but remember nordmann i played as a child in wood quay so know a lot of history of it and the area i grew up in being a townie and a local,for you to say that there was no warrior queens is to say the least narrow minded,do you or anybody else think that viking women did nothing but have babies and sew is a little silly,and i would be grateful if nordmann stoped thinking he was an expert on everything as he shows himself up sometimes and posting a big long post full of any difficult words just makes it look like you are waffeling.
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Message 42
Posted by an ex-nordmann - it has ceased to exist (U3472955) on Sunday, 18th March 2007
give me a little while and i will get you her name
听
Fair enough, I'm patient. -
Message 43
Posted by thegoodbadugly (U2942713) on Sunday, 18th March 2007
fair enough im patient,
psychiatric patient there nordmann -
Message 44
Posted by an ex-nordmann - it has ceased to exist (U3472955) on Sunday, 18th March 2007
Still waiting
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Message 45
Posted by thegoodbadugly (U2942713) on Sunday, 18th March 2007
story nordie its on the next thread,i have a good mind to write a strong letter to the professors in ucd and tcd and tell them to brush up on their history.
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Message 46
Posted by an ex-nordmann - it has ceased to exist (U3472955) on Sunday, 18th March 2007
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Message 47
Posted by thegoodbadugly (U2942713) on Sunday, 18th March 2007
aaahhhh nordie there is no need to be like that as you are being very childish and that is not a good example for you to show all the learned people who post here.
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Message 48
Posted by an ex-nordmann - it has ceased to exist (U3472955) on Monday, 19th March 2007
But claiming something as historical fact that patently isn't and refusing to acknowledge one's mistake even when the misinformation threatens to waste another member's time and effort in following it up IS a good example?
You excel yourself GBU. Have you not a chivalrous bone in your body? Tell LoreLovin Lady the truth (you got your facts wrong - again) and shame the devil! -
Message 49
Posted by thegoodbadugly (U2942713) on Monday, 19th March 2007
aahh nordmann its below this post for all to see.i told you that they teach you nonsense in that school you went to,the people i am quoteing can be found on the bbc,just type in viking warrior women into the bbc search engine and loads of books about viking warrior women come up,you see its easy to find all this out but you are in denial thats why you cannot see the wood for the trees ya boy ya.the future does not look good for you nordie if an uneducated man like me who finished school when i was 12 can correct you most of the time about subjects you went to colledge and studyed,i have said it before that colledges in ireland are behind the times and it shows in your posts,so back to school for nordie.
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Message 50
Posted by fascinating (U1944795) on Monday, 19th March 2007
GBU, I am with Nordmann on this one. I typed in 'viking warrior women' here and did not get a list of books or anything else about viking women who were also warriors. All I got was references to women who were wives of viking men.
GBU, it is dead easy admitting you are wrong, and is very good for the character. Here,I will even give you the words to say:
'Sorry, I was wrong'.
Now use them.
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