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Is this true

• Message 1.Μύ

  Posted by Grumpyshakazulu (U6590497) on Sunday, 12th November 2006

  A Scotish friend of mine told me that ship wrecks from the Spanish Armarda landed around Scotland and that alot of the soldiers were black or Arabic.
  
  He went on to say that his family were from the remains of inter breeding. He seemed very knowledgable on British history but it's the first time I have ever heard this.
  
  I knew about the Roman army but knew nothing of the above!

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  Posted by IrHist (U4245554) on Sunday, 12th November 2006

  
  I think he was pulling yur leg
  
  

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• Message 3

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  Posted by Historymaan (U6600474) on Sunday, 12th November 2006

  Certainly many ships of the Spanish Armada foundered around the coast of Scotland and some soldiers and sailors did make it to the shore. It is likely that most survivors of the shipwrecks would have been killed by the local population upon reaching the shore. It is also possible that as Roman Catholics some would have recieved aid from the Highlanders. Whether there were any black or Arabic soldiers or sailors on board the ships I cannot say but it is possible.

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  Posted by generallobus (U1869191) on Monday, 13th November 2006

  I suppose it's feasible, as the Moors did once hold large parts of Spain. However as the Armarda was predominately catholic i think it's unlikey unless they were there as mercenaries.

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  Posted by an ex-nordmann - it has ceased to exist (U3472955) on Monday, 13th November 2006

  Some old Irish songs and poems relating to the armada ships that ended up wrecked on the Irish coast (where they received a less than sympathetic 'welcome' from the natives, it has to be said) describes the Spaniards (mostly dead, and if they weren't when they came ashore they soon were, it also has to be said) as 'dark' and 'shaded' in skin-tone. To the insular Irish, it seemed, Spain was as exotic and dusky a land as any and might as well have been the Congo. I don't imagine the Irish peasantry were alone in that level of insularity either in the era we're talking about.

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  Posted by Grumpyshakazulu (U6590497) on Tuesday, 14th November 2006

  Thanx to all of you that trplied to my enquiry I really appreciate it.
  
  I have since looked at different sauces for information and it would appear as suggested by one of the respondents that they also landed in Ireland.
  
  Cheers

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  Posted by Tim of Acleah (U1736633) on Tuesday, 14th November 2006

  Muslims and Jews in Spain either had to convert to Christianity or leave.
  

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• Message 8

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  Posted by cladking (U6255252) on Tuesday, 14th November 2006

  My understanding is that it was the Moors from sunken armada ships that were the first generation of the Black Irish. Certainly most were treated as enemy combattants but it would appear quite a few survived and stayed.

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  Posted by Vizzer aka U_numbers (U2011621) on Wednesday, 15th November 2006

  Virtually every Irish person I've ever met (whether they be Irish-Irish, Irish-British, Irish-American or Irish-Australian etc) claims to be descended from the shipwrecked survivors of the Spanish Armada.

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  Posted by an ex-nordmann - it has ceased to exist (U3472955) on Wednesday, 15th November 2006

  
  Virtually every Irish person I've ever met...
  Μύ
  
  I'm from Ireland and I've never heard anyone claim it. Did all these Irish 'that you've ever met' say why they claim it? It wasn't an event that impacted all that greatly on Ireland, and compared to the thwarted attempt later by Spaniards to assist at Kinsale hardly counts as an event at all - just a handful of wrecks that yielded a few handy days' looting for some lucky peasants in isolated spots.

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• Message 11

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  Posted by Vizzer aka U_numbers (U2011621) on Thursday, 16th November 2006

  Maybe my tone didn't come over as intended and the statement was too sweeping. What I perhaps should have said is something like:
  
  'If someone could get a pound coin for every Irish person who claims to be descended from a shipwrecked survivor of the Spanish Armada then they'd be rich.'
  
  I was being light-hearted.
  
  I have, however, heard this claim made by enough different people on several different occasions for me to get the impression that this is quite a widespread piece of 'popular mythology'.
  
  I suspect that it's probably quite a recent phenomenon dating only from as recently as 1988 and the 400th anniversary of the Armada when there were many television & radio documentaries and books, newspaper & magazine articles produced on the Armada and its fate. At the time it was highlighted that the weather did more to destroy the Spanish Armada than any naval engagements in the English Channel as was the previously held popular belief. The many shipwrecks off the coast of Ireland became a major talking point in 1988. It was also suggested by some that a tiny number of survivors chose to settle in Ireland. I guess that from this many people put 2 and 2 together and came up with 22.
  
  As to why they may wish to claim such an ancestry is another matter. I'm not a psychologist so this is just pure conjecture. My suggestion would be that it stems from a desire to escape the mundane and identify with the 'exotic' or identify with an exciting and/or romantic story. This phenomenon seems to occasionally manifest itself in different ways and in many countries depending on the times and the circumstances.

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• Message 12

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  Posted by an ex-nordmann - it has ceased to exist (U3472955) on Thursday, 16th November 2006

  Your unfortunate (and hopefully atypically) insecure specimens of Irish people might have done better therefore to imagine themselves all descendants of the Barbary pirates who famously (if a little inexplicably) once raided West Cork, taking women and children as slaves back to their North African fastnesses, and the 350th anniversary of which raid coincided more or less with the birth of your acquaintances' fantasies. A much more exciting pedigree all round!
  
  
  
  Personally I claim descendancy from the sorcerer of myth Leberchoim MacLu who famously predicted (at some time probably corresponding to the late Bronze Age) that the Irish should fear their neighbours across the water. What damage they cannot inflict on us through force of arms, he warned, will be achieved through the poison of their tongues. Against their venom can honest men merely strive to die with dignity. A little pessimistic, but pretty impressive prescience all the same!

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• Message 13

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  Posted by IrHist (U4245554) on Friday, 17th November 2006

  'Leberchoim MacLu '
  
  Could this be the same Lu or Loeg or...whatever, who was a folk memory of an ancient celtic God 'Lug' who gave his name to...oh what was the name of that city...?
  
  Oh yes London

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  Posted by an ex-nordmann - it has ceased to exist (U3472955) on Saturday, 18th November 2006

  no

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• Message 15

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  Posted by stanilic (U2347429) on Saturday, 25th November 2006

  All the evidence I have come across about Armada wrecks along the west coast of Ireland clearly state that those survivors who made it to shore were usually massacred by the local English garrison. No doubt these sources are not entirely reliable in so far as nobody was going to admit to the English if survivors had been allowed to live by sympathetic locals. However I do generally agree with Nordmann on this matter.
  
  There is an older Irish connection with Spain which is the story of Mils Espainn or the Warrior from Spain whose family came to dominate early Irish society. So the Armada was not the only connection between Spain and Ireland.
  
  We also have to take on board the reality that when we look at the map of Europe we see Ireland out on the western edge. We forget that the sea was in ancient times a safer road than the land.

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• Message 16

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  Posted by (( sean )) Free Nordmann (U2053581) on Saturday, 25th November 2006

  i agree with the last posts...the posh side of my own Irish family had strong pre- and post-Armada trade links with Spain (ending up changing the family name to DeSoto and getting estates in Cuba and Florida)...as regards the origional post maybe your friend is possibly getting mixed up with stories of Napoleonic prisioners of war in Scotland who when freed married local lassies?
  
  Sean

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