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'Boudica' Books
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Message 1.Ìý
Posted by Alaric the Goth (U1826823) on Thursday, 5th October 2006
I have started reading the first of the bestselling ‘Boudica’ series written by Manda Scott (‘Dreaming the Eagle’ is its subtitle). Has anyone else read it/them? What do you think, especially from a historical/archaeological accuracy point of view? As well as any comments on literary merit?
I find that she writes too many pages without enough happening to justify the length. She has looked around for suitable Celtic names for her characters and come up with rather too many ‘Irish’/Q-Celtic ones (e.g. ‘Macha’, ‘Airmid’, Bán) for what are supposed to be the names of 1st century British Celts (who spoke a ‘P-Celtic’ language). She could have put in a few more ‘Welsh’ names that may go back a long way ‘(e.g. ‘Olwen’, ‘Branwen’ for women, ‘Lleu’ for men).
She also seems to think that ‘Camulodunum’ (Latinised) derives form ‘Cunobelin’s dun’. Now I think he would be called ‘Cunobelinos’ at that time, and also have had the name (‘Camulodunon’ in Brtittonic) explained much more satisfactorily (in e.g. Peter Beresford-Ellis’s ‘Celtic Empire’ book) as ‘the ‘dun’ of Camulos’ (who I think is a known Celtic war-god).
And a minor point, but she has larches and pines growing in 1st century Norfolk. There were definitely no larches in the British Isles back then, and I think that pines were confined to what is now Scotland, maybe encroaching into Northern England here and there.
Any comments? -
Message 2
Posted by Anglo-Norman (U1965016) on Thursday, 5th October 2006
I'm afraid I've steered clear of them, largely because I suspected they'd be horribly romanticised (as just about anything not strictly academic about the 'Celts' tends to be). I'm also a bit dubious about writing a novel (let alone a series) about someone we know so little about, and even what we do being taken from Roman sources (well, one Roman source, since Dio can't be relied upon) - this may explain the long sections of nothing very much.
Still, it would be interesting to see how Scott's portrayal of Boudica compares to that in Simon Scarrow's 'Eagle' series of Roman Army novels, where she is portrayed as a feisty type assisting the Romans and having an on-off relationship with a centurion (this is set shortly after the Claudian invasion). -
Message 3
Posted by TonyG (U1830405) on Thursday, 5th October 2006
From the perspective of a writer of fiction, I suppose writing about a character about whom so little is known is a good thing. It means the author can write just about anything and nobody can argue.
The errors you have pointed out, while very valid, will escape most readers and, much as in the movies, are details that the publishers will not let get in the way of a story. (I was going to say "good story" but I haven't read the book, so I'd better not comment on its quality). -
Message 4
Posted by Alaric the Goth (U1826823) on Friday, 6th October 2006
Having read a bit more since I started this thread, I have to give Manda Scott credit: the story is picking up quite nicely.
She does concede at the end of the book, in a little section on 'sources' etc. that little is actually known about Boudica, giving her a lot of scope as an imaginative writer. She also claims to have done her research, and been advised by archaelogists, etc. And I wouldn't call it 'romanticised Celtic stuff'. It's quite gritty and realistic.
One key thing is the fact that the main character starts off being called 'Breaca' and (presumably- I haven't got that far yet!) acquires the 'Boudica' name (meaning 'Victory') after she's, well, erm, won a victory (or two). Do we have evidence from ancient Celtic sources of this sort of name-change? -
Message 5
Posted by IrHist (U4245554) on Friday, 6th October 2006
'writing about a character about whom so little is known is a good thing.'
I think it depends on the intention of the writer. If they are interested in the period and are using the novel as a way of exploring the landscape etc, it is a good vehicle for so doing. -
Message 6
Posted by an ex-nordmann - it has ceased to exist (U3472955) on Friday, 6th October 2006
Do we have evidence from ancient Celtic sources of this sort of name-change?
Ìý
All the time - it is a heroic trait. In Irish legend the legendary Ulster warrior Cú Chulainn (Hound of Cullen) started out as Setanta until he was obliged to replace Cullen's watch dog after killing it (with a well pucked hurley ball, no less). Fionn MacCumhaill's granddaddy Nuada became Láimhairgid (Silver Arm) after losing his real arm and having to step down as king as a result. Fortunately biotechnics were a particular skill of his doctor Dian Cécht, who jimmied him up a very expensive prosthetic so he could reclaim his throne.
In the real world the convention held true as well. We don't know what Brennos was really called, he who famously sacked Delphi and Rome, but we can be sure he wasn't born with that name (The Raven King, or The Raven God), but might simply have been once known as Bran, a common name that runs throughout many Celtic strands.
Likewise Caesar accepted the surrender of Gaul from a man he called Vercingetorix, obviously a transliteration of a Celtic name beginning most likely with "Fear Chinn" and ending with "Rix", a Gallic appendix meaning simply "king". Using the surviving Celtic language of Irish as a guide we can surmise therefore that the great Gaul started out in life as a humble "Feargal" (Brave Man). Mind you, he was surrendering to a man whose name was itself simply a nickname meaning "long-hair", which in Rome was used to infer a shifty, indolent sort. We can only assume that the Gaul, if he knew this, must have seen the irony in it all, -
Message 7
Posted by Alaric the Goth (U1826823) on Tuesday, 31st October 2006
I have now abandoned reading the first 'Boudica' book, about two thirds of the way through. I suggest that you do not start reading the 'deletive expletive'
series. -
Message 8
Posted by an ex-nordmann - it has ceased to exist (U3472955) on Tuesday, 31st October 2006
Good - you can consign Morgan Llewelyn's "Brian Boru: Emperor of the Irish" to the same compost heap should you ever have the misfortune to find it in your possession.
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Message 9
Posted by thegoodbadugly (U2942713) on Wednesday, 1st November 2006
i do not have a compost heap as i live in a flat,so all of you people who do not have a compost heap try throwing it on the fire at least you get a bit of heat.
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Message 10
Posted by jonsparta (U3871420) on Friday, 3rd November 2006
i read all 4 of her books. not sure they had any historical facts but they were alright. got alot better in the last 2 books. what was well done was the way she convaid the hopeless situation the britons faced in the form of Rome. the final scene, it her bother and daughter hiding her body deep in a moutain area of britain and the 'dreamers/druids' talk of a great hero that will rise to save Britain and his sigh will be of the bear!! (Arthur, oh dear i thought!!!)
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Message 11
Posted by RainbowFfolly (U3345048) on Friday, 3rd November 2006
Hi jonsparta,
I think you're wrong when you think that the book refers to Arthur as the future great hero who had a bear as his sign. Modern scholars are of the opinion that the hero referred to was actually Roger de Courcey - the man with his hand stuck up Nookie's jacksie in the 1970s.
Quite ironic when you remember that King Arthur found it easy to pull a sword out of a stone, whereas Roger de Courcey had great trouble getting his hand out of a small bear's bottom...
Cheers,
RF -
Message 12
Posted by jonsparta (U3871420) on Friday, 3rd November 2006
lol.
RF seems like thats just as good idea as the one i thought about! but trust you to bring everything back to bottoms and mens arms stuck up them!!!! lol.
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Message 13
Posted by RainbowFfolly (U3345048) on Friday, 3rd November 2006
Look at the evidence Jon,
1) According to his website Roger has opened a management agency representing Rick Wakeman. In 1975 Rick Wakeman released an album called "The Myths and Legends of King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table". Coincidence? I think not.
SOURCE :
2) "Le Morte d'Arthur" and "Roger de Courcey" both sound uncannily "tres francais".
3) ummm... that's it.
I rest my case.
RF -
Message 14
Posted by stalteriisok (U3212540) on Wednesday, 8th November 2006
alaric
a very good, historically accurate book dealing with the Boudiccan revolt is "Imperial Governor" by George Shipway
It is the story of the Governor of Britain at the time - Seutonius Paulinus- a cracking read
ST
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