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I Clavdivs...
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Message 1.Β
Posted by OrganettoBoy (U3734614) on Tuesday, 26th September 2006
How historically accurate (for a 20th centuary work of fiction) are the I Claudius and Claudius the God books and the TV adaption of the same?
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Message 2
Posted by RainbowFfolly (U3345048) on Tuesday, 26th September 2006
Hi OrganettoBoy,
Wikipedia has an article on the books, and also a section on their historical accuracy:
Whatever their accuracy, they made for a damn fine TV series!
Cheers,
RF -
Message 3
Posted by DL (U1683040) on Wednesday, 27th September 2006
Based on I, Claudius and Claudius the God by Robert Graves. Excellent reading, but then I find Graves an excellent writer anyway (a signed 1st edition of "Goodbye to all that" has pride of place on my bookshelves!) As for the TV adaptation, very good but sadly not a patch on the Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ/HBO depiction of the fall of the Roman Republic in the recent Rome series. I,Claudius was excellent for its time, and is still very watchable however,
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Message 4
Posted by fascinating (U1944795) on Friday, 6th October 2006
Hereticus, exactly HOW do you possibly imagine that the recent production of the fall of the Roman Republic was better than I, Claudius?
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Message 5
Posted by DL (U1683040) on Friday, 6th October 2006
Morning fascinating,
It's all a matter of personal taste. I Claudius has a lot going for it, and is an excellent series, but comparing it with "Rome" is basically like comparing the opening sequence of "Saving Private Ryan" with the invasion scenes in "The Longest Day". Both watchable, both relevant, but the difference is that "Rome" actually bothers to touch on the life of the everyday Roman, rather than just the privileged few, "I Claudius" simply follows established historical record, as interpreted by Robert Graves, who as I've already stated is one of my all-time favourite writers. It is however, the traditional view of Roman history, concentrating on the upper classes, and with very little mention of the plebs. This is where "Rome" succeeded for me, in its depiction of life in the Aventine, the lower class districts of Rome. Not all set in palaces.... -
Message 6
Posted by OrganettoBoy (U3734614) on Friday, 6th October 2006
fascinating, you're not confusing the current Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ1 docu-drama about turning points in Rome's history with the HBO/Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ series about Julius Ceaser, his war with Pompey and his assasination are you?
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Message 7
Posted by fascinating (U1944795) on Friday, 6th October 2006
Hereticus, thanks for the reply. I can understand the opening scene of Saving Ryan being much superior to the same events as shown in Longest Day, but I do not think the same reasoning can be applied when comparing I Claudius with the Rome series. Looking at it from a historical point of view, the almost all of what happened in the former was based on the historical writings that have come down to us (but with a bias toward Tacitus and Sueotonius). We do not have much history of the doings of plebians.
But I must admit that I did not see all of Rome. The characters in it never really engaged me and one thing that annoyed was the lighting ie there was hardly any. -
Message 8
Posted by DL (U1683040) on Friday, 6th October 2006
Hi fascinating,
I agree that historical records referring to the plebeians are like rocking-horse poop, which is precisely why I found the portrayal of life in the rabbit warren that was republican Rome so fascinating. While mainstream history concerns itself with the major characters, your Caesars, Pompeys and Octavians, the series also devoted its time to little known characters such as slaves, simple legionaries, and the scheming nature of the senate. Claudius simply concerns itself with the decadent Julio-Claudian dynasty, who lets face it claimed from day one to be descendants of Venus, so had to be barking mad. Also, the gritty edge to the sets in Rome was in my opinion much more realistic than anything previously produced. To paraphrase Mrs Pants in Blackadder II, they "crapped out of the window".... -
Message 9
Posted by fascinating (U1944795) on Friday, 6th October 2006
Hereticus, here is where I must disagree. Rome was provided with aqueducts baths and sewers. What evidence do you have that they 'crapped out of the window'.
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Message 10
Posted by DL (U1683040) on Friday, 6th October 2006
Basically, the rich had sewerage, their houses had some degree of running water, am at work at the moment so will post you some references on Monday. The Cloaca Maxima, the main sewer of ancient Rome had been in place since the city began to grow. However, bearing in mind that the majority of Rome's population lived in poor quality housing, even six story jerry-built apartment blocks (called Insulae-islands), which were basically slum dwellings built by opportunistic landlords, and they had a habit of falling down from time to time. So, these landlords couldn't be bothered to build solid walls, so they aren't going to put in drainage and water!!!
A general description of Rome could be summed up by the fact that the Palatine was a pleasant place, above the stink of the city, the other neighbourhoods weren't so pleasant. For an average Roman citizen, you had to tread carefully to avoid having excrement dropped on you, possibly from six storeys up!
If you get chance to read Tom Holland's narrative of the fall of the Republic "Rubicon", he refers to the refuse covered streets of the poorer neighbourhoods in several occasions. The rich had all the benefits of Roman technology, the poor had access to some, but you're dreaming if you think the slums of Subura or Aventine had plumbing! -
Message 11
Posted by Colquhoun (U3935535) on Friday, 6th October 2006
An interesting bit of trivia about the Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ/HBO series.
The creaters seem to have used actual names of Roman officers living at the time for the main fictional characters.
There were actually two centurians serving with Caeser in Gaul called Vorenus and Pullo. They fought a duel while their camp was beseiged by the Gauls in 54 bc. The Gauls interupted their duel and they ended up saving each other. -
Message 12
Posted by fascinating (U1944795) on Wednesday, 11th October 2006
Hereticus, I was not suggesting that the poor had sewerage in their homes, but they had use of the baths for a nominal sum, which did have sewage. Can you point to any ancient texts (not modern novels) which actually state excrement was thrown out of windows?
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Message 13
Posted by Wendol (U4076986) on Sunday, 15th October 2006
It was a comon enough ocurence for a roman law to be written against throwing waste from windows. But probably not very easy to enforce, I doubt many people would have the time or money to sue someone for throwing waste on them.
Roman sewers are a much overated invention, all they would would do is poison all the rivers and water ways, and crate a great stink that would be smelt for miles around. The cess pits of the Barbarians and medieval times are much more enviromentally friendly.
The most sencible solution would simply be to not concentrate so many people together in one small location in the first place. -
Message 14
Posted by Wendol (U4076986) on Sunday, 15th October 2006
I imagine the roman baths would be a great place for the transmition of various diseases also.
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Message 15
Posted by fascinating (U1944795) on Monday, 16th October 2006
Wendol, you are simply betraying a kind of bias in your thinking. So you reckon people should not live together in cities? You, I suppose, live in a lonely farmhouse, complete with cesspit, and no sewerage?
You have no evidence that the baths did any harm to the health of people,nor that medieval cesspits were a boon to health.
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